Pathfinder

And that is your prerogative. I believe it is industrializing as we speak. But to each their own. i tried multiple times to go back to the subject matter by reinforcing that Roshar has multiple ways of reaching the cognitive realm, but was shut down that the reason they wouldn't was because they are pre-industrial. So that is why I am leaving it as RAFO. I think book 4 will show starkly what I was speaking of. I wish you luck with your theory.

Then honestly, I think the spiritual realm would make the most sense. it is all places and all times, so it would the the equivalency of "folding space" and punching a hole through.

Brandon is still working out the kinks and trying to decide. WoB below: Questioner Did humans come to Roshar through Shadesmar? Brandon Sanderson It is technology or magic closer to how the Oathgates work. But it was like that. It's not canon but right now that's what I have. It's not canon because there are certain things I have to work out before that can work... By the way I'll just say to the tape recording that I haven't canonized, like for instance if they traveled to Shadesmar to get to Shinovar from Ashyn. Right now I have that not being via Shadesmar, but the mechanics of that might not work out, and I might have to default to Shadesmar. So there's certain things, you'll see, where I say, "This isn't the canon answer, it's where I have things right now." Overlord Jebus So Urithiru might end up being a spaceship after all. Brandon Sanderson It's not that. Right now I have them using something closer to Oathgating, but it opens up a huge can of worms, when I'm not requiring direct-- When I'm sending through Spiritual Realm it opens up cans of worms, and I have to just make sure the mechanics on that are tight before I do it. Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

Every single one of those WoB precede the two I posted. Further that doesn't change the interpretation that it is a pre-industrial civilization in the process of industrializing. But as I said, you are free to interpret them however you wish. It is your prerogative. I already stated I feel extensively why i believe the way I do. That does not work for you. And that is fine. it works for me. So I guess RAFO.

I could reply to all your points, and part of me wants to, but at the end of the day Roshar is pre-industrial, undergoing an industrial revolution as per the author. So that is where my chips lie. You are certainly entitled to interpret these WoB however you wish, and I wish you luck with your theory, but I think what I have read, and WoB (one from 2014, and another from 2017) support it, that Roshar is under going an industrial revolution. Guess we will just have to RAFO in the end. the_archduke (paraphrased) Is chouta based on food from Korea? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) *long explanation about industrializing societies developing portable food* and no, it is Mexican/Italian, think deep fried meatballs in a sopaipilla. Words of Radiance Scottsdale signing (March 14, 2014) [unknown] Rereading Words of Radiance... Are the Herdazians a caricature of Mexicans? Is that ok? Brandon Sanderson Parts of their culture are inspired by Mexican culture in the same way the Alethi are inspired by Mongolians, Lift's origins are indigenous Bolivians, and the Final Empire (Central Dominance) was 1800's France. Human beings need a launching-off point for creativity to work. I don't consider them a caricature. Lopen is extreme to say the least, but I made sure to include Palona, Huio, and others as a balancing factor. That said, I don't get to decide if what I did works--I get to try, and explain my motivations, but the decision on whether or not I succeed is not in my hands. Many a writer has had the best intentions, but has failed anyway. I think it's important to diversify my inspirations, and push myself. If I were going to say the true inspirations for Herdazians, it would be a Mexico mashup with Korea (where I lived for several years.) The smaller country that has long been overshadowed by a dominant neighbor is a very common thing in our world, and it really felt like Alethkar would have a similar effect on kingdoms around it. I will take a moment to note that chouta wasn't inspired by burritos, really, but more the "street food" explosion that accompanied the industrial revolution. I took what they had in the society (flatbread and Soulcast meat) and tried to build something that would replicate the things I've seen and read about in our world during that era, because it fascinates me. General Reddit 2017 (Dec. 18, 2017)

But we do know what they are doing. We seen Navani's team. We see Navani's drawings. There are drawings of mood fabrials, of pain rials (of which we see employed shortly after in the novel), we see flying ships. Navani mentions another nation coming up with shard shields. Taravangian mentions using spren that bind things in its construction. He references radiant surges. As to the heralds, we know they are specialists in their fields, and they help advance technology when they return. Kalak (builder). Battar (scholar/scientist), Pailah (doctor). These aren't just people off the street. The only one that was, was Taln. Um yes. That is the whole purpose of setting up the process that way. The first person does the first fold. i do the first fold. The second person does the second fold, while the first person is doing the first fold again, and I do the second fold. The third person does the the third fold, while the second person does the next second fold, while the first person does another first fold, while I do the third fold. The fourth person does the fourth fold, while the third person does the next third fold, while the second person does the next second fold, while the first person does the next first fold, while I do the fourth fold. The fifth person does the last fold finishing the plane, while the fourth person does the next fourth fold, while the third person does the next third fold, while the second person does the next second fold, while the first person does the next first fold, while I do the last fold finishing my plane. The fifth person does the next last fold finishing the second plane, the fourth does the next fourth fold, the third does the next third fold, the second does the next second fold, the first does the next first fold, and I do my first fold on a new plane. When I do my second fold, another plane is done, when I do my third fold, another plane is done, when I do my fourth fold, another plane is done, and when I do my fifth and final fold, another plane is done. The assembly line has made 6 airplanes in the time it took me to make 2. The assembly line has tripled production. In order for the old system to match, I would have to hire, and train 6 people and teach them how to fold a plane from beginning to end. I need to make sure they maintain quality every step of the way individually. With the assembly line, I just have to train a person to do one fold, and do that one fold well. With the assembly line I can standardize quality. While with the old system, some planes will come out better, while others may come out worse. I already gave two examples where a car would not work, and a horse would be better. If those two examples were prevalent across the planet, which in this scenario it is, then horses would be preferable to vehicles. There by focusing on making the horses genetically better, or augmented via cybernetics, makes more sense. But its still a horse. You still have horse in the name. So if I understand you correctly, you acknowledge there is not enough information to come to any conclusions, but still feel a conclusion can be made? We disagree on the process of industrialization. Why do you think I am trying to show empirical proof to compel you to change your mind? What I have read leads me to my own conclusions. You disagree which is your right. As I have said multiple times now, I guess since we both agree Rhythm of War is concerning technological advancement, our answers will be there, so RAFO? I disagree. The only "noticable" thing is that there is technological advances. It could go as you say, or as I say. Spoiler for the back just in case, even though it is on Amazon Huh? You are really losing me here.

1. Jasnah's History 2. Jasnah bonding Ivory for the first time 3. transportation the surge being used 4. A dustbringer in full combat 5. Renarin using his powers fully (regrowth and future vision)

Then I guess it is fortunate that we see them not working on angel summoning, divination, and astrology. Further then I guess it is fortunate that they have spren, heralds, and radiants to assist in what would work and what wouldn't. Easily. I want to make a paper air plane. I take 5 people. I teach each person how to fold one part of the plane. I then place a stack of papers next to the first person. Tell them to begin. There is your assembly line. So if a horse is good at its job it ceases to be a horse? What is it called then? A dog is a dog is a dog regardless if it is good at herding sheep, pulling a sled, flushing out burrows of badgers, or hunting foxes. What are they called then? But you just said yes that we don't have data. So how do you know data we don't have does not hold up to the scenario I present? I am really confused. Isn't that what I have said about 4 times now? The fourth book's back mentions a technological revolution. You believe it will manifest one way. I believe it will another. RAFO? Ok?

Ah I understand now. You misunderstood expansion of capital, as colonial expansion. Yeah no that is not what I said. A community that spans the planet and that is backed by governments that want tech to advance. Now imagine if we could talk to someone who lived during that time period that greek fire was invented and could actually tell us how it was done? Like the Heralds? Right, so based on your subsequent response, why did you post what you originally posted if we already agreed on it? Hence my confusion. But in a prior post I showed references that the assembly line was not a new idea. It had been used for awhile by various cultures. The concept was existent for awhile. it was just combined with other technologies. So how would earth use solar power. Well you have to build cells to draw in the power. You have to build a battery and wiring. You have to angle it correctly to take in as much sun as possible. And finally the efficiency of the cells to draw in power is a big hurdle. How would you use stormlight power on Roshar? Leave gemstones out during a highstorm. Congratulations you have stormlight power. How would you use it to power a fabrial? Insert the charged gemstone into the fabrial. Congradulations, you have a powered fabrial. Why develop in that direction when they have a perfectly good solution in heartier horses that can accomplish the same goal? Why when the development appeals to biological instead of purely technical. But why would they need to when horses work perfectly well? Ok um I never said the horses would have wings? Then they would be pegasi. They are horses. They are stronger, studier, and more able to handle extreme conditions, but genetically are still horses. But we have incomplete data regarding Roshar now. You are stating Roshar works a certain way when you don't have all those details. So I am just carrying the scenario I presented to its next conclusion. Why would Sanderson need to create a completely wild spren that increases intelligence when they have access to fabrials that can be developed to solve these problems?

Originally on bridge runs, the bridge crew would run with the bridge up on their shoulders. It wouldn't make sense to shoot up in an arc as it would hit the bridge and accomplish nothing. However the bridge crews are far enough away for the arc shot, because Sadeas's archers pepper the Parshendi archers in turn to keep pressure off the bridge crews. It is mentioned part of the failure of the side carry, is because the parshendi began focus firing on other crews that were trying the side carry they didn't prepare for, that Sadeas's archers didn't know where to target to help, because all of the bridge crews were under attack. So the parshendi to me could definitely fire on the bridge crews from above or from directly on. Just since firing directly on, they employed short bows. edit: also keep in mind the parshendi would have an advantage that you would not normally have. The chasms. They do not have to worry about infantry charging them while firing the arrows over their heads, and directly at them, because they have to get the bridges down first. The whole purpose of running the bridges is to get as many down as possible, to send the cavalry over to make a beach head long enough for the infantry to cross. Prior to that, the only danger to the parsh is enemy archers.

Genuine question, when? The group Navani used included ardents as well as scholarly women. As I mentioned other countries have their own teams researching, as well as independant researchers. So the number is not exclusive, nor insignificant. To me it is a wonderful environment for research. You have governments across the planet funneling money towards technological advances. Then why were you bringing it up? I'm confused Splitting an atom which is not observable via the human eye is a much better understood subject, than the assembly line? Highstorms do not destroy civilization every time they pass. The planet advanced with them in mind, and not every inch of the planet experiences the same severity as the shattered plains (the reshi islands and pure lake for instance). And you are right, our planet does not have a continually renewing resource that we already know how to harness to full power our technology. We are attempting to do so via solar, but we are far far far off from the capabilities we see in stormlight. Just leave some gemstones out in the highstorm, and oh look, you have indoor lighting. No giant generators, or dams, or nuclear fueled electric power. The same power source that will be used to power factories, and vehicles. Not coal, or oil, or gasoline. But they have the technological acumen to produce those parts. This is not a colony. This is a full on civilization that on this planet developed in that manner. They are not getting resources from an exterior body. Its them. All terrain is most certainly not all terrain. You still need to clear out trees to drive through jungles. You are still crem out of luck if you have to go up a narrow pass through cliffside. Beasts of burden however still can. Blasting and building static means of transporting large amounts would be preferable. And if there isn't oil on this world? They have another means of powering their inventions. But I did. In the scenario I brought up. The purpose was to present another civilization that could have hallmarks of a pre-industrial society, while having access to advance technologies. And thereby show that it is problematic to compare such a civilization with our own planet's advancement. That just because this place has horses, and trains still, does not mean they are analogous in all ways with a civilization on our planet with horses and trains, especially when that fictional society has access to technologies that we did not. But they are horses. They are just heartier, stronger, and able to handle more extreme conditions. But they are still horses, not vehicles.

Well the Sons of Honor want the Church to become what it once was. I could see the current incarnation of the church wanting to keep things the same. They are still the dominant church on Roshar, and have their "people" embedded with just about every single world power via ardents. For all we know there was a group that made the church seem like it reformed on purpose, so they could advance other aims in the background. Isn't that what is a lot of theories regarding the stone shamanate? Why not Vorinism as well?

Ok, and can you elaborate on what you are trying to say? Just saying one sentence without context is making it difficult to respond. But there aren't a few individuals. Navani has a whole team herself. She speaks of renowned artifabrians across Roshar. We aren't talking 4 people. Navani alone has a whole task force (when Adolin checks on her in Words of Radiance). A whole branch of the ardentia is focused on scholarism and teaching women in such scholarly persuits. Whole countries have programs researching fabrial tech. The half shields is one example of this. Countries compete regarding such tech. A theory for a modern scientific civilization. The fundamentals of the industrial revolution does not require such levels. So you are agreeing with me sorta? It is not the tech itself, but the innovations in employing said tech. This part I disagree, all those things developed along side industrialization. I disagree. There is a mass market developing that we see in the books. It develops along side industrialism. I disagree on your math. There is plenty of evidence that radiant recruitment has had a resurgence, and that was just across the span of Oathbringer. There is going to be a year gap. On our planet, the people recovering from those occurrences did not have access to the things the Rosharans have. Which is again why I do not think it is helpful to try and apply it universally. But then why are cyborgs a thing? What if trains and horses are still a thing because of the terrain? That personal vehicles cannot navigate. Or maybe rubber is not available. Or maybe there is a solar event that makes aerial travel impossible. So the people in this situation can live far longer (via cybernetics), and have developed industrialization, but still need trains and horses. Horses they bred and genetically modified to cover the terrain better.

The reason for that was the wine was drugged with the express purpose of knocking out an allomancer. So the idea was it was strong enough to even drug someone burning pewter. The duralumin was meant to over power it, but duralumin only burns what you have all at once in a powerful flare. Vin was low on metals. She just didn't have enough pewter at the time.

Can you elaborate on what two phenomena you are referring to? The individuals that will be driving the industry forward, and researching/employing fabrials in new and innovative ways do not see soulcasters as mystical. It is seen as a fabrial to research, understand, and find a way to create more or something analogous. This is mentioned by Navani when Jasnah contacts her about Shallan's broken soulcaster. I disagree. Navani's multiple conversations with Dalinar on fabrials says otherwise to me. Navani thinks to herself in humor that of course Dalinar would hear of a fabrial innovation, and think in terms of its military applications. I need a moment to pull up that quote, but I have another below Way of Kings page 848 Navani smiled " This is a special time to be alive; we're learning all kinds of things about fabrials. This, for instance, is a diminishing fabrial - it decreases something, in this case pain. it doesn't actually make the wound any better, but it might be a step in that direction. Either way, it's a completely different type from paired fabrials like the span reeds. If you could see the plans we have for the future...." "Like what?" Adolin asked "You'll find out eventually," Navani said, smiling mysteriously Industrialization is not dividing the atom to blow up a city. It is using fundamental practices that have existed for ages, and applying them in a unified manner to further progress. The industrial revolution was not developing new elements, or chemicals. It was not inventing circuitry. It was realizing if you broke down a making something into multiple individual tasks that can be easily taught to individuals, and lining them up you could produce the same item faster, cheaper, and more efficiently. It was realizing if you used water to run mills, or pulleys with weights to move things, you could mill larger quantities than before, again resulting in faster, cheaper, and more efficient. It was realizing instead of taking a needle in a hand and move it over and over and over, you could attach a hand crank with a needle on its end, and you could move the fabric through it will turning that crank and accomplish the same task far faster, cheaper, and more efficient. These innovations do not require an entirely new view and understanding of science. It requires applications of existing technologies in new and innovative ways. Which is exactly what is happening with fabrials. They have reducing and I would assume amplifying fabrials. They have attracting and repelling fabrials. Those alone can lead to the development of countless machines that can take the place of the steam engine. And by Navani's own words, they are doing amazing things. The middle class is not to be dismissed so casually. In a growing industrialized world, owning land is not as important as owning capital. The new rich were factory owners, oil barons, car moguls. We already covered that I disagree on your math regarding the emerging radiants. Yet it did not on Roshar. Because of the Heralds. Because of the Radiants. They found ways to carry on information. Some civilizations were lost, but on whole tradition and knowledge was able to pass on. Medical knowledge chief among it. Which is why I think it is problematic to try and find an earth analogue era to compare Roshar too. It is like taking a world that operates like the old west, with trains, and horses, yet they have laser guns and cyborgs. How can you predict their advancement in comparison to earth then when they already have bits of technology far beyond what they would on earth? That technology does not exist in a bubble. It informs on all aspects of their lives.

As mentioned later, the parshendi are intelligent, and adaptive during battle conditions. Apparently I used the incorrect terminology, but when Kaladin and his squad are running towards the enemy lines at the beginning of Way of Kings, the enemy archers shot arrows in a high arc so the arrows would come down in the most concentrated portion of the oncoming forces. For informational purposes, what type of bow did they use then? Secondly, due to the weight of the bridge, there is going to be a hard limit on the speed the bridge runners can accomplish. Parshendi work in war pairs, that then work in squads. Just have two squads target each bridge (which they already do). Have one squad arc the arrows, which causes the bridgemen to lift their bridge over their head. The second squad waiting for the opening, fires a direct straight volley. I said short bows in this case, because it is specifically named in the books. Due to the weight and unwieldy nature of the bridge, (assuming no radiants are pulling it along), being able to lift and lower, lift and lower, all while trying to advance I believe would be impossible. It actually worked because: 1. It was new, so the parshendi did not know how to respond to it. Now having been used, they could come up with counters. For instance Kaladin mentioned worrying they would learn to stagger their fire, so after they blocked the arrows and turned to run forward again, that another volley would fire. Which leads to number 2 2. The parshendi then turned their fire on the other bridge crews that were easier to hit. That also denotes tactical intelligence. Don't waste resources where it is useless. Sadeas and co do laugh that the parshendi think they are accomplishing something by killing the bridge crews, but that is because like the alethi, they think they are reducing the enemy's numbers. They do not realize that the alethi has a line of slaves coming from the rest of the country to throw into the meat grinder. So genuine question. What kind of bows were used in the opening scene of Way of Kings with Kaladin and his squad? I understand they were not long bows. So I would like to know what kind of bows they were.

Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying, I believe we disagree on this. I believe both pewter and gold operate on cosmeric healing. Returning the body to the blueprint of the spiritual filtered through the cognitive. The only functional difference I believe there is between pewter and gold is that pewter has a speed cap. That is why I believe if someone burned enough pewter long enough, I think limbs and body parts could be regrown. The rest I believe I already covered in the numerous posts I copy pasted as to why I believe the way I do. I guess at the end agree to disagree because I said everything I would say already. Assuming you already read it, I can't really see saying anything further. I respect your beliefs regarding pewter. Just my own differ. i wish you luck with your theory! We already went back and forth about this at length. My intention was not to start it up again .Robardin tagged me mentioning stuff I already replied to throughout the thread. So I just copy pasted my answer for his or her reference. But it was not my intention to continue arguing (not fighting, but a form of discourse) with you when we already said our views at length. I don't feel there is anything further I could say that wouldn't just be repeating what I already said.

That was a diplomatic mission where Jasnah restored human and spren relations for the betterment of trade deals with other planets leading Roshar to a new age. All about how you present it

I do not think we can pick a period on earth that is analoguous to Roshar considering stormlight, fabrial tech, span reeds and medical knowledge which do not coincide with the eras you mention. the industrian revolution was the application of mechanization in manners it was not used before. The fabrial revolution would be the application of mechanization in manners it was not used before. For the Alethi government and market are one. The alethi are all about armies. Their entire civilization is built with that in mind. the highest calling for an alethi is to fight. And it doesn't mean no one will. Clocks were thought of. Plumbing was thought of. Hand cranked sewing machines were a thing for a long time and came to prominence during the Civil War. Sebarial mentioned textile mills that will produce uniforms faster and cheaper than anyone else. You mean to tell me he would not develop that? It requires more moving parts on earth because of belts and etc. You would not need that with some fabrials. A timing mechanism turning on and off each fabrial in turn would accomplish the same thing. Attract and repel, attract and repel. Needle up and down. The pocket watch I mentioned in my prior post was made cheaper during the civil war. So too was the car. And I see the fabrial revolution as that change in technology. You don't. As we said at this point we really are just speaking past each other. i guess we will just have to RAFO for book 4. No, the way things used to be done is in houses, with each individual doing the whole process from beginning to end. These are full on factories. Yes it is. Soulcasters are used for the production of food, resources (wood, minerals), waste disposal and so on. They are not used enmasse in factories yet, but the usefulness is very apparent, and it is not that far of a hop to seeing further possibilities (as we see mentioned by Navani as I have mentioned in prior posts) The ideas Navani have come up with have not only been employed in warfare. In fact she muses to herself humorously that Dalinar's first thought was how it would affect combat, while she could see so many other possibilities. And she is among those who drive such ventures with not only her own engineering and creativity, but with her money, resources, and workers. There will be a year gap where Honor and Co will be exploring Urithiru, researching and revitalizing existent technology (which even if they cannot figure out how it was done in the past, it would lead to ideas and concepts that could accomplish the same goal but differently, such as the elevators for instance), access to the heralds, ancient spren, and their own technology so far. I keep coming back to the very back description of book 4. That says it all to me. Via WoB there is a rising middle class in alethkar. Originally this class was limited because they were dark eyes and could not rise any further. Radiancy changes that. As we have seen in Oathbringer, the desolation has not begun in the same manner as it has in the past.

Parshendi then begin to intersperse long bows within the short bows. The bridgemen either carry the bridge overhead protecting themselves from the long bows, but leave themselves vulnerable to fire from the short bows, or do side carry (which is slower and requires timing with the volleys from the parshendi), and get hit from above by the long bows.

But the industrial revolution did not start because people sat down and said "hey I came up with this word. The industrial revolution. Lets do that!". Expansion of a new capital, with tools to further that expansion. Guess we are talking past each other because 1. Sebarial already has factories. It is a concept already in use 2. stormlight as a source of power is prevalent and renewable. 3. the fabrial revolution that is beginning Why aren't fabrials considered mechanization? During wartime there is most definitely a mass market, and again fabrials for mechanization. Yet pocket watches are one of the innovations of the Civil War. "Until the war, portable timepieces were a luxury item for the ultra-rich. The Waltham Watch company in Massachusetts figured out how to make interchangeable pieces for their pocket watch, which made the watch affordable for the masses, according to Alexis McCrossen, history professor at Southern Methodist University. This manufacturing breakthrough coincided with the start of the war, and soldiers began taking watches into battle. For one, the personalized engravings on the cover reminded the men of loved ones back home and they also allowed to them keep up with the regimented schedule of camp life. " Airship technology will be focused for military use of troop movement. As the technology is employed, further innovations can be derived. Potentially miniaturization for flatbeds to allow for transport of goods without requiring a chull walking so slowly. And I just gave an example of how a sewing machine could be invented and used with fabrials. It is simple to figure out how to divide a specific gemstone with a specific spren, and conjoin it? To know that specific type of gemstone would yield that type of result with that specific type of spren? The car was to illustrate the point of how the assembly line affected industry. The car was a privileged item that the common man could not afford. The assembly line reduced to the price so that the common man could afford it, and set the stage for other competitors to follow suit. Not a monopoly. But that wasn't the point. At least for me. The point I was making is war drives innovation. Innovation that does not necessarily directly correlate (radar leading to microwaves). This would (to me) lead to innovation in fabrials. Innovation in fabrials would (to me) lead to developments in industry. Mass production of penicillin for instance is going to result in increased survival of children. Such a population boom could result in an increase in need of baby strollers. The increased demand of baby strollers could lead to the development cheaper and more efficient wheels via a different kind of rubber. That rubber could lead to other developments. That kind of innovation is what I am talking about and is what fueled the industrial revolution.

In the book stated by Kaladin, as well as Dalinar and others, the Shattered plains is very fertile. Dalinar mentioned in oathbringer about maintaining the shattered plains for that reason Ok, I am confused again. You repeatedly in prior posts said people would be unable to afford clocks and watches, mass transportation like trains, and production like sewing machines, but now you are saying they are all normal? I am lost. Sorry you misunderstood. My point is Navani is already thinking of ways to apply the radiant surges to machines. Spanreeds were a few decades, not several (he mentioned an "old war trick" of flipping a span reed on an off since he wouldn't know how to write). Also a few decades is a far cry from the generations you are saying is required. Aimia apparently mass produced soulcasters. A radiant in Dalinar's vision, during an excursion to a border village, of no tactical importance brought a healing fabrial and only used it sparingly due to stormlight. Not because it is rare. A lot of the fabrials were lost, so I do not believe we can judge the number of surge fabrials of the past with the current number in modern day. According to Dalinar's vision there were 100s upon hundreds of shardblades and that was just that one vision. In modern day there is no where near that number. So it is not accurate to measure the current number as the means to determine their potential proliferation. Huh? This really confuses me. The whole purpose of what I presented was it would allow the farm lands to ramp up production. So it would go from only one field, and having to wait till it yields crops, of which some have to go to feed the family, some have to go towards replanting, and whatever is left can go to the "government", to having massive fields where the first yields can focus on further production and goods to the government, till it is self sustainable. In the example I gave, the production would be self sustainable in under a week, versus months or years normally. I am sorry, I believe you missed my point. The theories of plumbing Navani mentioned was regarding the attracting and repelling fabrials (which were used in the battle with the stormform to keep the bows dry). She mused that a combination of such fabrials could be used to draw water and such along pipes. Why is this revolutionary? Because that means irrigation systems to increase food and farming production. That means cooling and heating systems. Have a heating fabrial at one end, while the repelling and attracting fabrials drive the water through the system. Use attracting and repelling fabrials to move gears, or pumps to move machinery. There are so many applications for that pair of fabrials alone. Imagine the rest! ? Where does Kaladin say making food on the shattered plain is difficult? When he first arrived he commented on how fertile the land is. That a farmer could get lavis polyps the size of water barrels easily. Are we reading the same quote I posted? He mentions growing lavis, tallew, as well as hog farms. I'm honestly confused yet again. It is not known whether the aeolipile was put to any practical use in ancient times, and if it was seen as a pragmatic device, a whimsical novelty, an object of reverence, or some other thing. A source described it as a mere curiosity for the ancient Greeks, or a "party trick".[8] Hero's drawing shows a standalone device, and was presumably intended as a "temple wonder", like many of the other devices described in Pneumatica I will be happy to pull up innovations from those as well. When did we say it had to be for production? The point is that war leads to innovation that can lead to developments no where near the original intent. Then the desire of the product could lead to innovation in its production (like the car I keep mentioning) Doesn't negate the further research done on it resulting in further developments. War provided innovation in air traffic control, leading to the coordination and full extent we see today. I will list even more. None of what you said discounts the developments and growth due to these war time researches. I whole heartily disagree with this regarding World War 2. Everything I listed was either invented during the war, produced because of research done during the war, or was further innovated on because of the war. Pilotless drones, oxygen masks for aircrews, mobile x ray machines, ore detecting from the air, salt water corrosion, anti fog windshield fluids, artificial fur for winter clothing, nylon for parachutes, electro thermal de-ciers for aircraft, preserved food, drugs for seasickness and motion sickness, and mass production of penicillin you are saying does not have civilian applications? Some yes, some no. And that does not change the need led to developments that led to innovation. I will be happy to bring up innovations due to war in history. 1. horse drawn carriages 2. gunpowder 3. internal combustion 4. barbed wire 5. during the civil war 15,000 miles of telegraph cable was laid purely for military purposes. Mobile telegraph wagons reported and received communications 6. aerial reconnaissance. Balloon Corps established by President Lincoln. The telegraph was also used to coordinate 7. railroads. expanded and crucial in the movement of troops 8. army ambulance corps. The first organized transport of wounded I could go on. But I am hesitant to as i feel you will just disregard what I came up with. So once again I guess agree to disagree?

So the TLDR version is I disagree. For the reasons i disagree I mentioned in the prior pages of this post, but I will also copy paste them below for ease of reference: I think we both know and understand the whole thing about how cosmeric healing is returning the body to the spiritual ideal filtered through the cognitive self. As to the actual physical process, I think A-pewter and F-gold function the same exact way. just one has more "power" than the other. As in pewter plateaus while gold healing does not so long as you have enough to tap. The reason I say this in regards to your post, is because of Wayne when they get bombed by the butler. Using your statement: "the magic being the thing that actually knit wounds, replaced blood, or repaired damage by magically creating the required matter" Then I believe Wayne's healing as it is described in that scene should not work as it did. His wounds should have just closed. But what actually happens is: "The man's back was crusted with blood and burned skin, but it had been lifted and raised as scabs, new skin forming underneath" "So he grabbed the burned layer at Wayne's shoulder and - with a jerk - ripped the skin off his back. it came free in almost a single complete sheet. Wayne grunted. New skin had formed underneath, pink and fresh, but it couldn't finish healing properly until the old stiff, burned layer had been removed. So Wayne's body was healing as the human body normally does. Blood clots. Scab is formed. New skin grows underneath, and the old skin sloughs off. Just it was extra accelerated. Now further to this, if pewter was only increasing the body's immune system to assist in the speed of recovery, then when Brandon was asked regarding healing from an aluminum bullet, then for myself, A-pewter should still be able to heal while f-gold should not. As the body itself is just doing its natural job better. But the WoB indicated both A-pewter and F-gold would cease to heal where the aluminum bullet is present. Now Brandon does comment that a-pewter would not be too affected by the aluminum bullet, but I take that to mean because of their increased durability to allow them to shrug off the damage temporarily till the bullet is removed. But they are still unable to heal it, which he confirms later in the WoB, just like a bloodmaker. Kurkistan What would happen if you shot a thug with an aluminum bullet or stabbed him with an aluminum knife? Brandon Sanderson Ah, that's a good question. The wound would not be able to heal around the aluminum, but once the aluminum came out and was gone from the system, they would be okay. Kurkistan Wait, is that a Bloodmaker, not a Thug? Brandon Sanderson Oh, you're talking about Thugs? It would work similarly, but it really wouldn't have a huge effect on them. Kurkistan Alright, because Peter was implying that there was some weird aluminum interaction with Thugs. Brandon Sanderson What was he thinking of...? There is some weird interaction but... Kurkistan In the wedding scene, Wax thinks they would have aluminum bullets to deal with Thugs, and I was like, "Oh, that's a typo." And Peter was like, "Oh no it's not..." Brandon Sanderson No, no. That would just be-- it's like I said: healing it until the bullet is gone, it's just the same as Bloodmakers. Footnote: Referring to AoL sample chapter commentary. Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014) to put it this way. if it prevents the magical strengthening in a localized area, then shouldn't it still be healed? If the body's immune and natural systems are augmented, then the rest of the body is still producing the extra cells, and functions that would travel to the location to heal it. So the increased production would still exist, and should still function despite the localized area lacking. So I would think if that was the case, the wound would still heal regardless, yet according to Brandon, it would not. At least that is how I reason it. I guess, but for myself, if that is the case, then it brings me back to the question I posed earlier. Why does Wayne when healing grow scabs, and require the giant back sized scab sheet to be ripped off before he can finish healing? My understanding of cosmeric healing is that the spiritual is used as a blue print, with the cognitive acting as architectural notes on subsequent remodels. But in order to return the actual structure to the blueprint, you still need to physically fix it. Which sounds an awful lot like what pewter does to me too. (side note, that is the first time i came up with that metaphor. I am actually kind of proud of that, blue print, and architectural notes on remodels lol) But I guess what I am trying to say is the body's natural systems involve sending a greater supply of white blood cells, platelets and blood to the wounded site to prevent infection, and promote coagulation to seal the wound and allow new skin to grow. What happened to Wayne to me is literally what the normal human body does, just accelerated. Which would fall in line with the concept of storing "health", thereby making you more susceptible to illness (weakening your immune system), and then tapping a large amount of heath in a moment (strengthening your immune system), resulting in a speedy healing. To take this further, to me the same applies with Tin. When burning Tin in allomancy, all your senses are augmented at once, to a certain level, that can only be increased to a plateau at flaring. Touch, taste, smell, sight, and etc. All at once. Conversely feruchemy requires each sense to be stored in a separate metal mind. One metal mind for sight. Another for touch. Another for smell. Pewter covers a bunch of feruchemical abilties that require separate metal minds and in some cases separate metals. Just to me, again the only difference is the plateau. As I said earlier, if that is the case, then why does aluminum prevent pewter healing? The body's natural repair system involves sending white blood cells, platelets, and red blood cells to the wounded site. If the aluminum bullet is localized (which it is, confirmed via WoB), and pewter works differently from gold, by only strengthening the body's natural repair system, then the cells (white, platelet, and red) should all still be able to be produced in greater numbers from other parts of the body, being flooded to the wound, and heal. Aluminum negates investiture. Not natural bodily functions. I may be misunderstanding what you are saying. The way the human body works normally, is when the body is injured, production of cells are ramped up. Blood flow to the wounded area is increased. There are many locations in the human body that produce cells and they increase in blood flow to the wounded area is what gets them there. So if the aluminum is preventing the boost from a specific area (lets say a gunshot wound to the leg), then the rest of the person's body is still producing the increased amount of cells, and sending those cells to the leg to heal it. That is the human body's natural functions. It's an entire body effort. Its not like if you get injured in your leg, there is only specific cells to help heal your leg, and are only produced at the leg. There are specializations for cells, but for external injuries there is a very clear function that the entire body works together to maintain. So if all pewter did was increase the body's natural systems, then the other parts of the body are still creating much greater numbers of cells, and those cells are still getting sent to the target location. It is kind of like saying you are cutting off electricity to a construction site, when the contractors use hand tools to build, and there is still an increased number of workers being sent to the site. Then saying the site cannot be built because the electricity was cut off so power tools cannot be used. You still have an army of workers with hand tools that should still be able to build that building in record time because so many more were sent to the spot. But I guess that is where our disconnect lies. The WoB I posted earlier in the thread said that both pewter and gold healing are stopped the same way by an aluminum bullet. As in the healing stops. The pewter is only less effected at first because of pewter's ability to help someone "tank" damage, and not drop immediately. But the healing is still prevented in both cases. That's why I disagree with saying f-gold is healing magically/spiritually or however else anyone would like to call it, while pewter only increases the body's natural processes. if that was the case, then the pewter thug should still be able to "heal" whereas the WoB says he can't. We also see Wayne's healing work like the human body's natural processes. Blood and platelets coagulate, sealing the wound, and then the dead flesh/scab has to slough off for new healthy skin to finish the healing process. So for me, if f-gold is just healing magically/spiritually and having nothing to due with the body's natural healing process (as some have put forward to show it is different than pewter), then that scene to me runs counter to that. Which is what led me to my own conclusion, is that they both work on cosmeric healing principles. They both look to the blueprint of the spiritual ideal, filtered through the cognitive sense of self. They both use investiture (pewter via burning, gold via tapping) to heal. This manifests through the body's natural occurrences. Aluminum cuts off this healing in both of them the exact same way as the WoB says. The only difference functionally to me between pewter and gold healing, is you can only flare pewter so far, so your healing will take longer. With gold you can choose how fast you want to heal. There is a scene I need to pull up, where Wayne even says he taps healing far less so as not to waste it, and his wounds heal a little faster than they should normally, but he still needs to bandage them. Which sounds a whole lot like pewter to me. Vin heals faster than she should. It says so in the books. And it is not just her being more durable so she can walk around while she heals normally. She comments about it to herself. Wax does the same in the second trilogy. I think we are getting bogged down with wording. We are also told Tin enhances all the senses, but I think we all accept Tin works the same for allomancy as it does for feruchemy. Just with feruchemy you can pick which sense you increase, and to what degree, while with allomancy it is all of them and it plateaus. Just like pewter to me.

Except Sebarial realized it is a permanent spot, and has set up an entire industry there. Here is the history of the assembly line, taken place even before the industrial revolution, as well as how it affected the industrial revolution. Before the Industrial Revolution, most manufactured products were made individually by hand. A single craftsman or team of craftsmen would create each part of a product. They would use their skills and tools such as files and knives to create the individual parts. They would then assemble them into the final product, making cut-and-try changes in the parts until they fit and could work together (craft production). Division of labor was practiced in China where state run monopolies mass-produced metal agricultural implements, china, armor, and weapons centuries before it appeared in Europe on the eve of the Industrial Revolution.[4] Adam Smith discussed the division of labour in the manufacture of pins at length in his book The Wealth of Nations (published in 1776). The Venetian Arsenal, dating to about 1104, operated similar to a production line. Ships moved down a canal and were fitted by the various shops they passed. At the peak of its efficiency in the early 16th century, the Arsenal employed some 16,000 people who could apparently produce nearly one ship each day, and could fit out, arm, and provision a newly built galley with standardized parts on an assembly-line basis. Although the Arsenal lasted until the early Industrial Revolution, production line methods did not become common even then The Industrial Revolution led to a proliferation of manufacturing and invention. Many industries, notably textiles, firearms, clocks and watches,[6] horse-drawn vehicles, railway locomotives, sewing machines, and bicycles, saw expeditious improvement in materials handling, machining, and assembly during the 19th century, although modern concepts such as industrial engineering and logistics had not yet been named. The pulley block was the first manufacture to become fully automated at the Portsmouth Block Mills in the early 19th century. The automatic flour mill built by Oliver Evans in 1785 was called the beginning of modern bulk material handling by Roe (1916). Evans's mill used a leather belt bucket elevator, screw conveyors, canvas belt conveyors, and other mechanical devices to completely automate the process of making flour. The innovation spread to other mills and breweries.[7][8] Probably the earliest industrial example of a linear and continuous assembly process is the Portsmouth Block Mills, built between 1801 and 1803. Marc Isambard Brunel (father of Isambard Kingdom Brunel), with the help of Henry Maudslay and others, designed 22 types of machine tools to make the parts for the rigging blocks used by the Royal Navy. This factory was so successful that it remained in use until the 1960s, with the workshop still visible at HM Dockyard in Portsmouth, and still containing some of the original machinery.[9] One of the earliest examples of an almost modern factory layout, designed for easy material handling, was the Bridgewater Foundry. The factory grounds were bordered by the Bridgewater Canal and the Liverpool and Manchester Railway. The buildings were arranged in a line with a railway for carrying the work going through the buildings. Cranes were used for lifting the heavy work, which sometimes weighed in the tens of tons. The work passed sequentially through to erection of framework and final assembly We know there are fabrials for all the surges. We know regrowth fabrials have existed. We know Navani is already coming up with ships using gravitation, a surge of a radiant. Regrowth stimulates growth. I mentioned in a prior post how that can be used to produce goods. Personally I disagree. Highstorms come weekly or even more frequently in some circumstances. Arrive with infused gemstones. Get production started. After next highstorm, get production fully going. Leave. And that is not even considering soulcasting a large windbreak to allow for soulcasting and regrowth during a highstorm. I disagree with your math, so I have come to different conclusions. I disagree. There have been plenty of military operations where they can radio each other, or back to base, but still use time to coordinate. Um? The quote literally mentions his farmers producing food. Roshar is fecund. All the radiants would be doing in that case is getting the farmers start in mass production. The biggest hurdle with farming when you have good land is getting it up and running. Having the capital and resources to invest while waiting for the yields to provide returns. With what I presented, all of that is jumped short order. You would have massive fields of farm land producing. I referenced about the plumbing system via pumps. I referenced the airship. I referenced others. All of these things are machines, and innovations using fabrials. All of these things Navani, who is a wealthy supporter of the sciences and engineer in her own right, is thinking about, and pushing her own research time to work on. Not at the start of the industrial revolution. When it really hits and booms yes. But you are mentioning all this infrastructure that developed along side it, and presenting that it had to precede it. But that is not how it works on Roshar. We see it numerous times with Navani. Research leading to RDF technology in the United Kingdom was begun by Sir Henry Tizard's Aeronautical Research Committee in early 1935, responding to the urgent need to counter German bomber attacks. Robert A. Watson-Watt at the Radio Research Station, Slough, was asked to investigate a radio-based "death ray". In response, Watson-Watt and his scientific assistant, Arnold F. Wilkins, replied that it might be more practical to use radio to detect and track enemy aircraft. On 26 February 1935, a preliminary test, commonly called the Daventry Experiment, showed that radio signals reflected from an aircraft could be detected. Research funds were quickly allocated, and a development project was started in great secrecy on the Orford Ness Peninsula in Suffolk. E. G. Bowen was responsible for developing the pulsed transmitter. On 17 June 1935, the research apparatus successfully detected an aircraft at a distance of 17 miles. In August, A. P. Rowe, representing the Tizard Committee, suggested the technology be code-named RDF, meaning Range and Direction Finding. But that's not how things work on Roshar...... I didn't say it directly would. I said the concepts are there. Couple that with the renewable resource of stormlight, and fabrial tech, and there you go. The warmachine has a lot more pull in getting things accomplished, which is why there are countless innovations sourced during conflict. Maybe you saw my post before you saw my edit which included how things developed with cars and the assembly line, so I will copy paste it here. Large-scale, production-line manufacturing of affordable cars was started by Ransom Olds in 1901 at his Oldsmobile factory in Lansing, Michigan and based upon stationary assembly line techniques pioneered by Marc Isambard Brunel at the Portsmouth Block Mills, England, in 1802. The assembly line style of mass production and interchangeable parts had been pioneered in the U.S. by Thomas Blanchard in 1821, at the Springfield Armory in Springfield, Massachusetts.[34] This concept was greatly expanded by Henry Ford, beginning in 1913 with the world's first moving assembly line for cars at the Highland Park Ford Plant. As a result, Ford's cars came off the line in fifteen-minute intervals, much faster than previous methods, increasing productivity eightfold, while using less manpower (from 12.5-man-hours to 1 hour 33 minutes).[35] It was so successful, paint became a bottleneck. Only Japan black would dry fast enough, forcing the company to drop the variety of colors available before 1913, until fast-drying Duco lacquer was developed in 1926. This is the source of Ford's apocryphal remark, "any color as long as it's black".[35] In 1914, an assembly line worker could buy a Model T with four months' pay.[35] Ford's complex safety procedures—especially assigning each worker to a specific location instead of allowing them to roam about—dramatically reduced the rate of injury.[citation needed] The combination of high wages and high efficiency is called "Fordism," and was copied by most major industries. The efficiency gains from the assembly line also coincided with the economic rise of the United States. The assembly line forced workers to work at a certain pace with very repetitive motions which led to more output per worker while other countries were using less productive methods. In the automotive industry, its success was dominating, and quickly spread worldwide seeing the founding of Ford France and Ford Britain in 1911, Ford Denmark 1923, Ford Germany 1925; in 1921, Citroen was the first native European manufacturer to adopt the production method. Soon, companies had to have assembly lines, or risk going broke; by 1930, 250 companies which did not, had disappeared.[35] Development of automotive technology was rapid, due in part to the hundreds of small manufacturers competing to gain the world's attention. Key developments included electric ignition and the electric self-starter (both by Charles Kettering, for the Cadillac Motor Company in 1910–1911), independent suspension, and four-wheel brakes. Since the 1920s, nearly all cars have been mass-produced to meet market needs, so marketing plans often have heavily influenced car design. It was Alfred P. Sloan who established the idea of different makes of cars produced by one company, called the General Motors Companion Make Program, so that buyers could "move up" as their fortunes improved. 1. tanks 2. flamethrowers 3. synchronizer 4. air traffic control 5. hydrophones 6. pilotless drones 7. mobile x-ray machines 8. sanitary napkins 9. extensive research on magnetism to protect hulls of ships from mines and detect subs led to detecting ore from the air for mining purposes 10. technique of cathodic protection of ships's hulls against salt water corrosion (still in use today and has saved millions of dollars in ship damage) 11. anti fog windshield fluids. 12. Artificial fur due to arctic clothing for the military. 13. Synthetic Rubber 14. a technique for testing and quantifying snow conditions 15. anti roll stabilizer 16. Nuclear energy research leading to the development of the Chalk River atomic energy facilities and eventual development of the CANDU nuclear power generator 17. Nylon for use in parachutes 18. Electro-thermal de-icers for aircraft propellers that is still used to improve safety of air travel today. 19. Successful processes to manufacture better powdered eggs, powdered milk, and preserved bacon. This led to some of the powdered and condensed foods still in use today for food transportation. 20. development of drugs to help cope with seasickness and motion sickness 21. Important contributions to the development and improvement in production of penicillin. Mass production of the vaccine. 22. Blood serum, in great demand to help the large number of people injured in the war, was made available as a result of work done by Dr CH Best. 23. The first decompression chamber 24. The first human centrifuge used by pilots to train for high performance aircraft. 25. Oxygen masks for aircrew, and research on the effects of fatigue and cold 26. research on night vision led to red lighting I am sure I can pull up more if you give me some time.

It is said multiple times in the books that the Shattered Plains has become the new capital of Alethkar. Sebarial realizing this before anyone else, has set up "shop". It is also mentioned multiple times in the books about how the Alethi presence in the shattered plains is becomes a permanent fixture and that is the place where the real movers and shakers have set up shop. I am confused, I am not speaking of trickle down economics at all. I am speaking of the industrial revolution. Innovations like the printing press, the steam engine, and the assembly line all stream lined production and increased it massively. Instead of needing a fully trained work force from beginning to end, you could teach someone off the street to put a gear in a housing, and then pass it along. Then if that person lost a finger, complained about their rights, or the insanely long hours, you could kick them out on the street and grab someone else and do the exact same thing. There were rampant abuses but it did not change that those in power could produce more, via cheaper labor, and making greater profits by cutting their sale prices eliminating the competition. The wealthy have all the reasons in the world to push for such innovations. Here is how it went down on our planet with cars (highlighting portions I feel are especially pertinent): Large-scale, production-line manufacturing of affordable cars was started by Ransom Olds in 1901 at his Oldsmobile factory in Lansing, Michigan and based upon stationary assembly line techniques pioneered by Marc Isambard Brunel at the Portsmouth Block Mills, England, in 1802. The assembly line style of mass production and interchangeable parts had been pioneered in the U.S. by Thomas Blanchard in 1821, at the Springfield Armory in Springfield, Massachusetts.[34] This concept was greatly expanded by Henry Ford, beginning in 1913 with the world's first moving assembly line for cars at the Highland Park Ford Plant. As a result, Ford's cars came off the line in fifteen-minute intervals, much faster than previous methods, increasing productivity eightfold, while using less manpower (from 12.5-man-hours to 1 hour 33 minutes).[35] It was so successful, paint became a bottleneck. Only Japan black would dry fast enough, forcing the company to drop the variety of colors available before 1913, until fast-drying Duco lacquer was developed in 1926. This is the source of Ford's apocryphal remark, "any color as long as it's black".[35] In 1914, an assembly line worker could buy a Model T with four months' pay.[35] Ford's complex safety procedures—especially assigning each worker to a specific location instead of allowing them to roam about—dramatically reduced the rate of injury.[citation needed] The combination of high wages and high efficiency is called "Fordism," and was copied by most major industries. The efficiency gains from the assembly line also coincided with the economic rise of the United States. The assembly line forced workers to work at a certain pace with very repetitive motions which led to more output per worker while other countries were using less productive methods. In the automotive industry, its success was dominating, and quickly spread worldwide seeing the founding of Ford France and Ford Britain in 1911, Ford Denmark 1923, Ford Germany 1925; in 1921, Citroen was the first native European manufacturer to adopt the production method. Soon, companies had to have assembly lines, or risk going broke; by 1930, 250 companies which did not, had disappeared.[35] Development of automotive technology was rapid, due in part to the hundreds of small manufacturers competing to gain the world's attention. Key developments included electric ignition and the electric self-starter (both by Charles Kettering, for the Cadillac Motor Company in 1910–1911), independent suspension, and four-wheel brakes. Since the 1920s, nearly all cars have been mass-produced to meet market needs, so marketing plans often have heavily influenced car design. It was Alfred P. Sloan who established the idea of different makes of cars produced by one company, called the General Motors Companion Make Program, so that buyers could "move up" as their fortunes improved. I still don't see why poor people are using these types of fabrials in their homes. The way the industrial revolution worked was it allowed for greater production of goods at cheaper prices. This drove industry forward. Then when laws were enacted protecting the workers, and unions, the workers got an increase in wages. Then with the standardization of modern conveniences and the burgeoning middle class, resulted in the average man having access to technology and conveniences they never would have had before. The car is a prime example of this. Originally only the rich got to have it, and they would do little races in park areas. But with the introduction of the assembly line, cars became affordable to more people. The utility cars afforded became realized and more and more roads were paved, till it has become one of the most prevalent inventions on the planet. The cell phone is another example. It used to be only fancy big business men could have the giant cell phone. Now there are plans where you practically "rent" one and almost everyone has a smart phone. A smart phone. Practically a hand held computer. These are just examples of how an innovation can lead to standardization. Really? Every single person will respond exactly the same to receiving these kinds of powers? They will disregard their familial relations, spousal relations, children and friends to fall in line? Every single one? There would never be a person that decided they wanted to bring alms to the poor, and would soulcast for the people in their neighborhood? Or an edgendancer remembering the forgotten by creating a commune garden that they infuse with regrowth to speed along production? (not intending to be snarky, I just really do not see how every single radiant will immediately fall in line, abandon his or her family and friends to support a system that would drive down their family further. Not saying that is the system that would exist, but that seems to be the system you are positing) Also consider take like lets say 5 seeds. Plant them. Use regrowth to accelerate growth that they all mature and produce. Now you have 5 plants heavily laden with seeds. Take those seeds, plant them, and use regrowth to accelerate their growth. Now you have an exponential growth of seeds that you can now have your farmers plant and grow the old fashioned way. Spanreeds require they remain still to communicate. We have radio communication on earth, and soldiers still use watches to coordinate attacks. Team A and B will reach their points at such and such time. They have this much time to set up. At this time, all forces attack. It is a very real fact that happens in our own world, and Dalinar comments on it repeatedly in the books. I quoted the book already. Sebarial said manufactories producing goods faster than anyone else. Why would they necessarily have to move food there? Take a windrunner/skybreaker or elsecaller/lightweaver, with an edgedancer or truthwatcher. Fly or teleport (via windrunner, skybreaker, elsecaller or willshaper) to the remote location with a packet of seeds and stormlight. Elsecaller/lightweaver soulcasts food for the short term to assist the farmers so they can focus on farming for production over immediate food. Plant the seeds, and use regrowth to bring them to full maturity in seconds heavy with seeds. Do this once or twice till you have enough seeds to plant multiple fields. Then leave. The farmers there plant and care for the seeds, using the soulcast food to maintain till the plants have reached maturity. Then they have a surplus of food for themselves. Seeds to plant subsequent yields, and a large supply to send back to Urithiru or wherever. I already mentioned that multiple times. I say this not to be snarky nor disrespectful, but I am sorry but please go back to my prior posts. She speaks of possible innovations. Really? You have one factory foreman. This was all across the industrial revolution on earth. It was taking untrained people off the street, and plugging them into a seat where they could do the same thing over and over again. Lighteyes and the ardentia are the main researchers and innovators. How are they going to have trouble with patents? That is incorrect. Radar existed, but was no where near what it was till World War 2. It was used covertly so as to not give away the advantage. That meant allowing large swatches of Britain to be bombed by Germany so that Germany would not realize England knew when they were coming and where they would hit. A scientist walking past a portion of the radar machine, noticed what the radiation did to some food he was holding. That ultimately lead to the microwave. Two things utterly unrelated, led to innovations. Then the industrial revolution would not have happened on earth. It is cheaper to pay someone next to nothing, and train them to operate one thing, rather than teach them the whole process. In fact Roshar is already knowledgeable of this because of what they do with the parsh. The parsh can do simple tasks once taught and will repeat the tasks till told to stop. A frequent thing owners do, is teach the parsh to weave baskets for instance so even between jobs, they are accomplishing and producing. One parsh does it up to a certain point. Then passes it to the next, who does it to a certain point, and so on till the basket is done. Simple tasks that when combined produce a finished product far cheaper and efficient than otherwise. But you don't need education to work an assembly line. That is what made it so appealing. And in my response to Karger, I explained how that could be handled. Ok this is confusing to me. Can you elaborate on what you are saying? Not in what I am saying. The increase of production via cheaper workers, and greater yield would lead to cheaper prices to cut out the competition (which is exactly what Sebarial is doing). But the masses do not need to be educated to put a gear in a car. They just need to be taught to do one thing, and do that one thing well. And if anything happens to that person, because the task is simple, they are easily replaced. I whole heartily disagree. There are countless innovations that changed people's day to day lives that were sourced from war.