Pathfinder

I think it is an elegant solution. He doesn't stop doing it all together, he makes it clear his time is at a premium of late which makes sense, and people in need benefit.

The impression I got was that they are spren from Roshar that worldhopped to Scadrial. So regardless whether it is investiture high or not, spren are still spren. Just like if an earthling went to mars, regardless the composition of mars, the earthling is still an earthling. But that is my own interpretation.

And I am not disagreeing with you that it is both. Just we are discussing a situation where the object involved might not have a self to see itself to begin with. This gets into which comes first the chicken or the egg? A tree is seen as a tree and thinks itself as a tree. It sprouts a bud. The bud becomes a flower. That flower is fertilized and becomes a nut. That nut falls to the ground and grows into a sprout. That sprout grows into a tree and whole process starts again. At what point in the process does that bud stop thinking of itself as part of the tree as a whole, and instead thinks of itself as a separate entity? We have names for individual parts of things, but until they are seen as separate, and used as separate over a period of time, it is my interpretation of what I have learned in Emperor's Soul, Stormlight and on this board, that the object does not gain a separate identity/sense of self. edit: Another example. A leaf. On a tree it would be part of a tree and when "spoken to" would say "i am a tree". Yet when it falls off in fall, it would say "i am a leaf". Just like the stick used to be a branch.

Well I agree because it is a very vulnerable and clear look at her feelings towards Wax. She really does feel that no one could care about her in that way, but hopes against hope (in her mind), that if she could just figure out the right thing to do, that Wax could actually want her, and maybe even love her.

When Alcatraz visits the free kingdoms and sees the book written about him. The cover is a spoof off the cover of the first harry potter book.

but its value does come into play with how it views itself and it would probably say "i am a diamond with an illusion of a ruby on me". You could still cut a ruby easier than a diamond, so it would not stand up to tests. An Illusion is still an illusion. it could not function in all ways as a diamond does enough to last extended scrutiny and time it would take to change its cognitive aspect.

Ok, this is getting into semantics. That is my point, the original example was that a coin started from coinshot (gloved so no fingerprints) to then shoot to victim. You need a line that is clear from the origin of the coin to the target. Point A to Point B. If you then want to claim that you would use a random person’s buttons or change in their pocket, you are still ripping it from that person. Which will call attention to the occurance, and still result in a line. All pushes are straight out and all pulls are straight in. If it was psychokinesis we are talking about, then you have me, but we aren’t. We are talking about a projectile with a definable trajectory. We are talking about a world where coinshots and lurchers exist and are normal. So the investigator would know how both work, and thereby would know to look for all my examples. The killer is still an individual that does not live in a bubble. If the killer has no personal connection to the victim, then they were hired by someone. So by investigating the victim and finding out why someone would want the person dead, you can work your way back. Find those people that want the victim dead, investigate their means, their financial statements. Track their movements prior to the death. That way you can get your “smoking gun” to prove they hired a hitman and also by doing so learn the identity of said hitman. All without a single personal connection between the hitman and target. I have already commented regarding the line of shoot. The coin shot has to also sneak into whatever position, unless he somehow has become invisible. Flying up to the top of the build yields us these situations. One the coin shot does so the night before so as to not be observed. Said coinshot has to now wait on the room all night till the appointed time the next day which risks leaving evidence. If the coinshot goes up during the day, then there are people within the building to see said coinshot go to the roof. Finally in your scenario you mention a coinshot going to a room, which implies the target is outside on the street to be shot, yet mention using a chandelier in which to kill the target. Where is this chandelier being suspended from in this example? Also Voidus assumes that a coin can be shot 10 miles away. When Vin flew up to the top of the wall in Luthadel she reached the limit of her push. Average height of a town wall is 30 ft. But let me push things in your favor. Let us double it to 60 feet. That is still incredibly shy of the 52,800 feet that is 10 miles. Now a typical story on a building is 10 feet. So in this example our coinshot could stand on a 6 story building and still get his coin to his target. Except now the target is the size of a penny, your steel lines are super thin and all mushed together with every other person down there. That is assuming the target is carrying metal to find via steel line and that you can pick out which steel line is your targets. Finally due to your distance you also have to worry about windspeed as the coin reaches the extent of your range, the force of your push has diminished as well as due to how high up you are. Regarding evidence, the same would apply as if the hitman were on ground floor. Shoeprints, threads from the gloves, and eye witness accounts when the hitman then flees the scene. As for identifying the hitman even if he did not leave any DNA evidence, please reference my point above regarding researching the victim. If the coinshot is floating above the building, unless he is hemalurgically spiked line Zane, that compromises further his already impressive and unlikely shot of 6 stories away. Sniper rifles are designed to shoot at that kind of distance, coinshots are not. How often do people look out the window? Have you ever been bored at work? Wanted to check what the weather looks like outside before you go to lunch? Check on your car parked below? Heard a noise outside and decided to take a peek? Add to the fact that it is a 6 story building, and there are now a lot of people that can chance peeking out. Yes it reveals a line in both directions, that the coinshots and lurchers of the police force can look into both those directions for anchors damaged with their own steel and iron lines. Again that is how ballistics work. I already commented out shooting a nail out of a wall would be difficult given the materials of a modern day scenario, as well as by damaging the wall you leave further evidence to locate the coinshot or lurcher. Anyone in that room of fifty, except the one standing directly opposite the wall that just got tore up and can now be identified by 49 other people in the room. Nails are driven into planks of wood in a wall. If you rip the nail outwards, you shatter the plank of wood, like taking a hammer to it. That will cause the plank to cave in away while the top and bottom of the plank is driven inwards damaging the wall. Which a room full of 49 people will notice. Removing a nail with a hammer is using leverage. Removing a nail using pulls would require an anchor for leverage. Try hammering a 2 inch nail into wood block till half an inch is exposed (so you have something to grab on), then using pliers pull straight out of the block, and tell me you can do that easily with slow and steady pressure with no affect on your body and no need to brace against something. The reason for my example is multiple. First, I used 2 inch, to give you enough space for it to poke out to grab on since you are not an allomancer to grab it by the metal alone. Second, it is 2 inches so it will be in the wood deep enough to re-create a nail actually driven into a structure via a nailgun or hammer as based on how secure those nails are, results in the stability of a building so they better be fixed in there pretty good. Also the lurcher you mentioned is not a crasher, so would not be able to increase their weight to increase the force of the pull. Even if the example included a twin born, by increasing the weight, you would be leaving a clearer footprint on the ground for identification. Regarding your 10 miles example, let me get this straight, you want your hitman to walk 10 miles while pulling a piece of metal like a dog on a leash and expect no one to notice that as odd? The weight of one person wouldn’t warp an anchor, but using an anchor to rip nails or what have you from a wall will. Now this replies to Voidus’s last comment and natc’s comment. Critics assert that statistical estimates of a match may be skewed by incorrect assumptions about the genetic variation across population. In some population subgroups, individuals may be so genetically similar that a DNA match is more likely to occur when comparing samples drawn from within that subgroup. Other problems may occur in cases where suspects are closely related to one another. Critics also call for a number of other procedures to make DNA testing more accurate. They advocate sample splitting which is a prodcedure by which samples of physical evidence are sent to two forensic laboratories in order to better guard against mistaken matches. They also ask that all DNA laboratories be required to undergo proficiency testing through blind trials. Such trials would have laboratories analyze DNA samples without knowing whether the analysis was being done for an actually investigation or for evaluation purposes only to help eliminate bias. Blind trials would also yield error rates for each laboratory that could be given to a jury to help it weight the significance of the DNA evidence. Blind trials would also provide incentives for laboratories to lower their error rates. Criminal defense lawyers have also called for state funded access to the services of experts who can evaluate the handling and analysis of DNA evidence. These “counter experts” would give the defense a chance to scrutinize DNA evidence more closely. Defense attorneys also assert the need for access to laboratory records and physical samples for retesting. So it is far from perfected and an automatic win for the prosecution.

The wall is then damaged which reveals where you are. Each subsequent scenario you offer reveals the assassin's location more. Damaging surrounding environment can reveal countless things assuming you can even shoot a coin through a wall in a modern day setting with steel insets and thick plaster. But lets say you can, then the dust and debris from the shot gets thrown into the air. Shards could hit the shooter giving more evidence to track. The shooter had to get into the room somehow, which means people saw the shooter go in making him or her easier to identify. Have you ever tried to pull a nail out? No matter how subtle the pull, when a nail is driven into a building it is jammed in there good. So now our assassin is standing in one spot for an extended period of time, for multiple people to see them, while working on this one nail, waiting for his or her target to walk exactly in front of that one nail he or she has been working on? Since when has a push or a pull extended 10 miles?!?! You also mean to tell me the police wouldn't have their own pushers or pullers to view steel or iron lines to find what would have been good anchors in that scenario? DNA does in fact lie, and as I said tonight I will be happy to provide numerous examples of exactly that. When DNA has been employed to convict someone, it was thanks to that and additional evidence.

Well that is already subjective as the value given a gem is what we prescribe it. Diamonds are numerous yet thanks to Debeers campaign, they are a "girls best friend" and all but expected for a engagement ring.

That was my point, you need a clear line between the shooter and the victim. Someone standing in the way would get killed or hurt and indicate all the more where the shooter is. You say you do not need anchors, yet your example with the lurcher was yanking nails and screws out of a wall. How heavy is this lurcher that they can just stand there and tear apart a wall without being yanked foward? Also as I already pointed out, yanking on the anchor would damage it. You know based on the trajectory where the pull was coming from, you know roughly how much range there are on pushes and pulls (since it is a standard phenomena in this example), and you know what type of damage to look for. So just have a group of individuals start looking in that direction. That's how bullets are located for ballistic examination after a shooting. Ok if DNA is so fullproof then how about OJ Simpson? When I get home I am sure i can pull up 10 cases easy where despite DNA evidence, nothing conclusive was found or the person got off as there was a reason for the presence of that DNA

The cosmere on whole is going to be something like 35 to 40 books I believe is the last count, so yeeeeeaaaaaahhhhh we are going to have plenty lol.

Except for a coinshot there would need to be a clear line of fire from shooter to target limiting your pool, and if it was a lurcher I already pointed out using the stress on the anchors and the amount of damage done would help determine at what point of the "line" stood the lurcher. And motive is not impossible to ascertain. Examine the target's life, who they know and interact with. Based on the crime scene we would know what we would be working with, whether it is a coinshot, lurcher, or mistborn. Mistborn are rare enough that they could be outright discounted, or the pool is so narrow as to point the finger right at them. ALL evidence taken by itself is circumstantial. All DNA says is at some point you were at the location, and the time it takes to collect it degrades the accuracy. It is the gathering of multiple forms of evidence that convicts criminals. A large part of that is research. Research into the victim, who would want that individual killed, how would that murder be accomplished, and applied to how the murder was actually done. That is how murderers are caught. If DNA was so full proof then it would be country wide mandated that everyone has to provide a DNA sample and thus crime would be extinct. But that's not how it works. Yet by your own logic, a person can get an unregistered sniper rifle, get to the roof of a building, and shoot someone and no one will be able to catch that individual. Yet they do all the time. You mean to tell me no one is going to notice a coinshot flying up the side of a building? Not even the occupants of said building? And again pushing on a chandelier allows the forensics to determine origin of push which would lead them to the top of the building which there they could locate your wonderful magical smoking gun of DNA, finger prints, and so on. If DNA, finger prints, and foot prints were the only way a person could be convicted, then what do you think people did before those means even existed?

I could have sworn somewhere it was stated if they do something like an encyclopedia, it would be when the cosmere is mostly resolved, which won't be for something like 20 years?

Well is that illusion able to be manifested 24/7? Will the illusion of an orange rot if left on the table exposed to air? When bit into will it taste like an orange?

In the State of Sanderson, he did say he may put together an anthology of his short stories and include a star chart of the cosmere in it.

I haven't delved too much into it, so there is probably a lot of info I am missing, so forgive my ignorance, but the drawing of the voidbringer that Jasnah references has antenna and doesn't match to me to the description of a thunderclast.

Granted, but in order for your brain not to explode, it flows in and out. So you become a drooling invalid who has a never ending stream of information flowing through your brain. I wish for Brandon Sanderson to be unable to Read and Find Out any of my questions.

But all those things come up as a "smoking gun" a lot less than you think. DNA can be damaged or fudged. Finger prints are difficult to get. Same thing with blood. Those on their own do not necessarily convict someone. It isn't like the television shows where someone finds a hair and goes "ah ha! we have him!". It certainly helps, but you still have to establish motive, means, and show the criminal was there through witness accounts (as in individual was not where they said they were at the time of the murder). DNA, blood, fingers prints can all be placed. It is not an automatic win for the prosecution.

Examine the stress on the object ripped out and the trajectory that led it to hit the target. Then using geometry, determine the angel due to the origin of the pull. Then examine buildings for possible anchors in the direction of the origin of the pull. Once the stress on materials is discovered, the anchor's used can be determined. Then by examining the stress on the anchors, vs the object pulled, it is possible to determine the location of the puller. Then once again use eye witness accounts, or if this is present day, cameras in the location to try to determine who was there at that time. That would be harder but not unheard of. Through search of the persons affects and a re-creation of their lives leading up the suicide, it would be possible to determine if there was a constant link. So every time the suicide victim seemed distressed to his or her friends, where was she/he? Who was around? What was occurring in that individual's life? The rioter or soother needs to be near by every single time they use emotional allomancy on the person. That kind of effect to drive someone to kill themselves wouldn't happen in one day. So that increases the chance of identification.

Thank you for the help!

The plan with Sadeas seems like it was premeditated to the point that they set it up far before the evening of drunken revelry. If that was the case, then Gavilar had plenty of opportunity to tell a sober Dalinar about his plan, and have Dalinar take part without him getting drunk later. So I think Dalinar wasn't included in the plan at all on purpose by Gavilar. Why, no idea, but I feel it was a conscious choice.

Right but the debate seems primarily at the fetus stage, where it is less clear about its sense of self and or identity (and I am happy and want to thank everyone that we are all being careful discussing this, as this could very quickly become a problematic fight about abortion.) edit: and I concur with those that state identity is both self and societal driven. It is mentioned in stormlight as well as in the emperor's soul that objects gained an identity as something due to how people viewed it over time. I feel that would just as easily apply to a fetus.

I think that is kind of splitting straws. Shallan is just re-illustrating people and things she sees with photographic realism, yet she attracts creation spren. I get what you are going for, but if that is true, then I am sure there would be "story" spren and they did not appear.

I think we are making this problem far more complicated than it needs to be. A coinshot using a coin to kill someone is no different than a bullet. You use the coin (assuming no finger prints) to track down where it changed hands (like the bank for instance), to narrow down the pool of suspects. Also by examining the body you can figure out the trajectory, force and how it entered an exited which would determine where the culprit was and that he was in fact a coin shot instead of a lurcher. Couple that with witness testimony would hopefully find you your killer. I think it is very possible to figure out who mistborn/misting killers are with more mundane(our world) ways of locating. Just need knowledge of how the magic system works to then apply it to forensics.

The times Hoid lightwove for Kaladin I feel is creationy enough to attract creation spren. Unless he lightwove to hide them, but I do not know why he would do that. Also when Galladon, Blunt, and Demoux try to find Hoid they get pretty frustrated and I think even angry briefly. Yet no frustration or anger spren. Vasher/Zahel gets annoyed with Kal ALOT lol, but I do not recall him attracting any spren. I agree it still feels too loose to necessarily mean something, but it is a cool point I didn't notice before, and I kind of want to dive right back into the book just to check lol.