Pathfinder

So they remain as transitional, unless they stub their toe, in which case they take a quick sip of liquid Dor to heal it, so they are invulnerable transitional again? That could make combat now that I think about it somewhat problematic. True you could survive anything, but when every wound inflicted by a foe could turn you hoed (so overwhelmed with pain all you do is lay there and chant over and over), then a sustained "fire fight" would quickly overwhelm those elantrians. You would have to hope you take out the enemy quickly, and there is someone left over with a clear enough head (and not too many wounds), to drink the liquid Dor, and distribute it to others to heal them as well.

But how would they prevent the downside that is eternal agony?

http://brandonsanderson.com/books/mistborn/the-bands-of-mourning/the-bands-of-mourning-maps-illustrations/ enjoy (you can save the image and zoom in)

Well I do not believe it is a spoiler because it seems well known but I will put it in just in case, because i didn't realize if it was or not. It is the broadsheet included in Bands of Mourning reflecting on the fact that it is from bands of mourning, perhaps I should not have been as cavalier mentioning it. I apologize. I saw it mentioned a lot on the forums and assumed.

I know this is splitting hairs, but it may also cause insight. The job of a judge is to interpret the law and apply it to whatever case is presented to him or her. So if you still envision Skybreakers like judges, then that would give them some more wiggle room regarding holding the law above all else.

I feel it is a bit of both. I am sure he drew inspiration from Dune, but also there is only so much you can do with a desert world lol so I agree some things are just inevitable in such an environment. edit: just like invariably you are going to get stereotypical flora and fauna in an artic world.

True true. Makes you wonder what would have happened if the woman that touches Nazh's "spirit gun" was a nicroburst instead of a leecher lol.

Good point, though potentially dangerous as it could result in an explosion of sand in all directions, I think it would most certainly result in all that is left of the sand master is a desiccated husk.

That is for overmastery. Doesn't take long before your eyes begin to dry out, which hampers vision. My problem with your point is you are assuming the combatants are just standing there sending attacks at each other. Every time we have seen any form of mistborn combat, it has opened up with tossing out coins in a general spray while running and or with a leap. If we are talking Kenton, his one stream would be busy blocking the coins for Vin to close in and slice his throat. If we are talking a general mastrell, they would be hampering their own vision to block and attack with the streams, of which the mistborn could dodge and touch burning chromium to negate the streams. That means the sand turns black and is no longer usable. The mastrell would then have a depreciating supply. And btw yes you can dodge sand. I have provided a quote below I converted the document White Sand to a kindle reading document, so the pages I reference may not match up to yours, but a word search should locate it if there is an issue White Sand page 425 The man dodged backward, swiping his hand at the steam of sand at the stream of sand above him. The sand fell dead, the pot dropped to the ground. So a normal person was able to dodge a sand stream and touch it without harm enough for the armor they wore to kill the sand stream. Much like a pewter burning mistborn could do easily, with a touch and burn of chromium Kenton is also an anomaly in his training. His father was derisive of his training with the soldiers, yet it was this training that kept him alive most of the book combined with his sand magic. A standard sand mage would not have the physical training to dodge the coins and a duralumin pushed coin is not going to be stopped. Actually as I reference the story (I definitely need to reread it to get it fresh in my mind), the mistborn does not even have to reach out to touch the streams. The moment the stream touches the mistborn burning chromium, the stream will fall dead without harming the mistborn. Same happens when a Kershtian is hit by a sand stream. Apparently momentum and force mean nothing when the investiture is drained otherwise the Kershtian would have been thrown backwards regardless. The quote is shown below: White Sand page 327 The arrow fired just before Kenton's sand arrived, but it went wide, snapping into the wood of Praxton's desk. the ribbon of sand hit the Kershtian's chest at a speed impossible of the most powerful of zinkall. The sand turned black and sprayed off the Kershtian's armor like water splashing against a stone wall. Also keep in mind that a sand master needs to summon the sand. The scene I quote below shows an opponent able to throw a spear and then close the distance to fight before Kenton can summon sand to aid him (not in attack but in defense as the spear was immune to sand mastery) White Sand page 380 Kenton ducked to the side, dodging the spear as it shot through the air. He knew, somehow, that the spear would be covered with a terken coating. Kenton called his sand to life anyway, then reached down for his sword. The assassin moved quickly after his throw, however, tackling Kenton a second later. Kenton's sword spun from his unprepared fingers, tumbling down the side of the dune. Kenton kicked free of the Kershtian as the man pulled a carapace knife free from a sheath on his leg. Kenton rose to his feet, heart pounding. Gathering his sand around himself, he jumped, soaring high into the air. The Kershtian scrambled forward and slapped his hand through Kenton's stream of sand. Immediately, the sand the man touched turned stale and black, destroying the foundation of Kenton's jump. So a sand master must summon the sand and then use it and there is a delay enough that someone could and as shown in fact did close the distance before the sand could be brought to bear, regardless the intended use. He had to kick the foe away to give him enough time and space to jump away with the sand. This is further demonstrated in the next quote: White Sand page 380 As long as the man grappled Kenton, he could keep control of the battle, and Kenton's sand mastery would be practically useless So the sand is although versatile, is powerful in view of what it opposed on that world. A mistborn has a host of abilities that could counter a sand master. These attacks of sand were at all normal people, none with "magically" increased speed, strength, durability, and reaction time on weekends I am MIA, so you will not get a response to your response till probably monday.

Hopefully we get a full appearance and can actually see what he looks like instead of just our mind's eye

I am curious if Baon and Khriss are on the same "team"/working together but on separate assignments, or they are each doing their own thing completely separate.

That is only because by burning steel or iron, they see it is coming long before it gets there, and does a general push to alter its course. Again, you are assuming the sandmaster is just standing there with no coins shooting at him during this as well as being pulled back to hit him from behind after being shot. And again the OP said generic mistborn, and generic sand master, which means a mistborn would also have chromium, duralumin and bendalloy. Also while this sandmaster is potentially "blocking" these attacks with its very visible sand stream, he or she is also blocking their own view of the battle limiting their response time. If you raise your own arm to block a punch, you are blocking your view of the follow up punch to your side. Mistborn have no such restriction. The more ribbons a mastrell uses the faster they dehydrate. 25 would cause the mastrell to pass out rather quickly. The whole reason for the dehydration was so Sanderson could balance the magic system in a location where their power source is omnipresent. They are surrounded by sand, and the sun continually recharges it. If not for the dehydration, the sandmaster would never run out. So they dehydrate, and in this example is given only a gourd without the dayside sun to recharge it (not to mention the combat would be over by the time the sand is recharged). Your only argument in favor of the sand master is this seemingly invulnerable, faster than light, stream of sand (which is not accurate with what we seen in the story) and you disregard every other ability a mistborn has.

But a coin shot by a mistborn is like a bullet.........It can penetrate a target standing 5ft away which shows the amount of force that goes into the push, and has punched through armor/shattered wooden shields. That's why I said to compare "in a blink of an eye" to a bullet. Also the entire steam of sand is visible. A mistborn's push is not. Yet again regarding the speed, also keep in mind that was due to Kenton focusing solely on one stream his entire life. As per the OP you get a standard mastrell. So the sand mage has multiple streams but are weaker and slower than Kenton's. Or you get Kenton's one sand stream. There have been plenty of times a mistborn have dodged obsidian tipped arrows. I will be happy to provide the book and page reference if you do not believe me. An arrow has significantly less force than a bullet. It is a gross assumption to assume because it can block an arrow it could also block a bullet. edit: here is a comparison between a bullet an an arrow The faster an arrow travels, the flatter the flight trajectory and less deviation from wind. Recurve bow arrows can travel up to 225 feet per second (fps) or 150mphwhile compound bow arrows can travel up to 300fps (200mph). The average bullet travels at 2,500 feet per second (around 1,700 mph). If you reacted to the sound of the gun going off and required 0.20 seconds (twice that of the fastest Olympic sprinters) to react, then you would need to be at least 500 feet away to successfully dodge a bullet. so a bullet travels roughly 8 and a half times faster than an arrow

And compare that to firing a bullet. edit: also if you recall, in that scene, both mastrells were standing still facing each other. Kenton or whoever, would need the use of other sand ribbons to move themselves to dodge around to avoid the mistborn's attacks, further dehydrating them faster. edit 2: that scene was also in a room covered in sand. The streams would be originating from the sand mastrell/kenton's gourd. Unless he intends to break it open and scatter it all over, there is a limit to the directions it can come from. Also as I type this, considering that crossing the streams cancels the investiture in the sand, what prevents Vin or mistborn from reaching out as they dodge, to touch it and burn chromium? edit3: also forgot to count in bendalloy. And further, the OP stated a mistborn without atium, and a sandmage. Never mentioned Vin nor Kenton. So if you are going to bring up Kenton, then he starts with only 1 sand stream, or it is generic sand master, but has multiple weaker streams. Pick one. Don't get both.

So few things: First: regarding sand speed. It is in comparison to as mentioned arrows, or zinkall (pressurized darts), or other sand mastrells. I can say I can run faster than the fastest track star, but I still ain't going to beat a speeding car. So to assume sand moves faster than the eye, is exactly that. An assumption. We do not have an actual measurement for the speed of sand. (i did a search on sand and speed, and those are the only comparisons that came up) Second: Yes sand can block some weapons and arrows, but again we do not have an accurate measurement of how much it can actually block. We are not talking Gaara's Ultimate Defense here. Third: The Sand Mastrel dehydrates while using his ability so gets weaker as time goes on. The mistborn is burning pewter so maintains full strength, endurance, speed, and resistance steadily till the last flake is gone Fourth: I assume a mistborn gets a vial of metals like a sandmage gets a gourd of sand. From what we have seen in their use, the vial of metals lasts a lot longer than sand does. Fifth: If we are assuming a gourd of sand like Gaara's, unless the sand mage also trains in taijutsu, he or she is not going to have the strength to lift the gourd and still avoid the mistborn's attacks In the end as I said, the sand mage does not have any physical personal enhancements. He or she is just a vunerable "human", while a msitborn has all the bonuses of pewter on top of his or her other powers. I still say it goes to the mistborn. And that is, as the OP said, without atium

I would whole heartily agree with you, except for the way they are employed in these cases. So for instance with sand mages it makes sense. You are in the blazing sun all day. The glare actually hampers your vision, so the hood would actually be a huge benefit. Keeps you cool, your vision clear. Total thumbs up on hood usage for Sanderson. Assassin's Creed however is different. The hood, even the style of the hood, becomes practically a badge that screams "assassin here!". If you are working in the slums, and there are tons of shifty characters coming and going, hoods make sense. If you are identified by face already and are well known, again hoods make sense. But for any actual spy or assassin, the biggest thing you do not want to do is stand out and being the only person wearing a hood is going to be a big one. We aren't talking about quick strikes in the night. We are talking walking around, in broad daylight, infiltrating a crowd, to walk up to your target and stab them, and then flee into a crowd. Wayne ironically would be the perfect assassin, and has shown his incredible skills as a spy. You want to be invisible? Look like everyone else. Look normal, look like you belong. I just don't buy the hood for that. Now for destiny. As it was pointed out, I recalled the wrong character class. It was the Hunter. In the game Destiny, your character goes from Earth atmosphere, to the Moon, to Mars with all the assumed changes in atmosphere. It could be argued that Mars might have one, but the way they portray the Moon, it most certainly does not. So your suit is a self contained pressurized life support suit. You wear a fully covered helmet where it is difficult to even tell on some of them where the "eye holes" are. So your face is completely covered and anonymous. The only distinguishing factor is your suit, and in the hunter's case his or her cloak. So the response could be that is the reason why. So you can know what group that Hunter belongs to, or who that Hunter is. But if that is the case, still why block your peripheral vision which is so crucial in a firefight? If you have to have one, at least wear the hood down during a fight lol. But nope, hood is up 24/7. There is absolutely no practical reason to wear a hood for a Hunter other than it looks "pretty". Now don't get me wrong, these characters do look good from an artistic standpoint. Just it feels its getting to the point where it is taking me out of the narrative, and causes me to go "why"?

Yeah, I felt from the scene him redirecting it was him still attempting to hold back so as not to lose himself to the power, and that had he had no inhibitions from the get go, he could have completely contained it. But that was my own interpretation of it.

Personally I took it as kind of "crossing the streams". That your own investiture was interfering with another's investiture. But that was my own interpretation and it has been awhile since I read it. Since its coming in june, I better brush up lol

I would say mistborn as they still have pewter while from what I recall ( i will need to do a re-read), sandmages still are physically at least "human"(meaning no accelerated healing/speed/reflexes).

You could theoretically make just about anything a weapon (not that a super hero would want to do that necessarily) but take for example a sheet of paper. Turn it to steel, and now with your increased strength, you can throw that thing like a blade of death.

Would sleeping gas theoretically even work on someone that regenerate to that extent? His body would be continually purging the gas and cleansing itself.

Then I believe there is a more recent WoB, because I do recall him specifying the shardblade and safe hand association. I suck at looking up WoB, but will endeavor to locate it for you. found it: http://www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt=%27shardblade%27 LEINTON Oh something I forgot to mention when I went over my Q/A session with Brandon. Someone else's question was about the safehand and Brandon gave new information on it. BRANDON SANDERSON So that essay he told us about? The one that defined masculine arts as being ones with two hands and feminine needing only one? That was in order to let men secure power over Shardblades. I will look further because the WoB I am thinking of I believe expanded on this. Hopefully I can find it edit2: Yeah can't find it. Wish there was a place where I could do like my kindle. Type in a word or combination of words, and then it shows everytime said words come up. There is theoryland, but it is far from extensive. I am tried searching the forums, but that is also problematic. Ah well, so either it is difficult to find, or I am remembering incorrectly.

High speed maglift trains without the required maglift part. Imagine traveling from Elendel all the way to South Scadrial in a few hours. Regeneration machines. Instead of using a defliberator, just touch the machine, and the person is completely healed. Skyscrapers far into the sky, without worry about foundations strong enough to keep it up due to reducing its weight from a machine. Hmmmm, give me time and I am sure I will think of more. (that is assuming I interpreted your question correctly)

I could have sworn the Vorin religion did the safe hand to first prevent women from using shardblades, and then a woman wrote the book that divided the masculine arts from the feminine.

Could you provide a quote? Out of curiousity, I searched the word "fourth" in both Way of Kings and Words of Radiance and could not find the spot you are referencing. edit: nevermind, did a search on quarter and then it came up: Words of Radiance page 780 The Kholin princedom now owns a quarter of the Shards in all of Alethkar, and I've been named dueling champion