Pathfinder

Well also keep in mind Alethkar is not the only place with shardbearers. They do have the most but they are not the only ones. edit: and then i read again that the post is specifically regarding Alethkar, so nevermind lol

So I countered the downvote on your post Maxal, because I feel it is not right to downvote someone just because you disagree with them, and did not see anything offensive in your post.

Really? Because it is so simple to re-outfit your troops? Because the commanders totally had the forethought to store and save all the equipment they used prior to changing to chasm warfare? Not only that but maintained them in working order? Also easy to re-train the recruits that arrived at the shattered plains in the last 5 years that were trained only in chasm warfare to get them to go back to the "old" style of fighting. There is again flipflopping. He made it sound like Clubs is the only trained military commander. So answer me who led Straff's Cett's and the Garrison's army? Staff's commander in the Well of Ascension didn't have any face tattoos nor shaved head. Was he an obligator incognito? Not to mention if we are discussion in the mistborn era, then that means the highprinces are still fractured states all fighting with each other. How would they unite to fight Scadrial? Dalinar and Galivar weren't even born yet. I am not saying one side or the other will win, but if people are going to make points, then reference the book so they can be ensured accuracy. Ah I see now where the confusion is coming in. This thread is in regards to era 1 mistborn, which is 300 years prior to the Stormlight archive we know. This is also prior to the Elendel basin so there isn't that "300 hundred years of peace and just hanging around on your buts".

As far as we can tell, Koloss are faster than they 'should' be, but it's never said they're faster than regular people, AFAIK. They ARE faster than they should be when wielding those massive swords, but that's because wielding massive swords like that is stupid if you're not as strong as a Koloss. Well of Ascension page 229 "No" the koloss snapped, grabbing the pack with an inhumanly quick swipe of the arm. Well of Ascension page 278 Five hundred koloss killed two thousand men, Elend thought. And Jaste's force contains twenty thousand of the beasts. Lord Ruler.... My point was that they COULD be beaten, and we've seen them beaten, and that it's not that hard. They weren't taken unawares BTW, they were surprised because a smaller foe was charging a bigger one. That confused them. They were also not fully raging yet, so not at full strength. Well of Ascension page 558 This is Stupid, he thought. For some reason, that didn't stop him from choosing the smallest koloss in the group, taking a deep breath, and attacking. The rest of the koloss paused to watch. The creature Elend had chosen spun - but in the wrong direction. It turned to face its companion koloss, the one nearest to it in size, as Elend tackled it, ramming the knife into its back. Even at five feet with a small build, the koloss was incredibly strong. It tossed Elend off, bellowing in pain. Elend however, managed to keep hold of his dagger. Can't let it get out that sword, he thought, scrambling to his feet and ramming his knife into the creature's thigh. the koloss dropped again, punching at Elend with one arm, fingers reaching for its sword with the other. Elend took the punch to the chest, and fell back to the sooty ground. He groaned, gasping. I could write the rest of the scene, but this post is already going to be long, but if you request, I will type up the rest in another post. Point is, even though it is the smallest of its kind, it is still formidable. It is only because Elend surprises and wounds it deeply twice that it is even remotely weak enough to give him a chance. We have seen shardbearers beaten. They are beaten easily enough that they have to have an honor guard with them anytime they go into battle. No one is untouchable. No, that's not my argument. Not in the slightest. I detailed a scenario where TFE adapts their tactics, designs them for killing the Rosharans, and then does so effectively. Then I detailed a scenario where they use their standard tactics - Send in the Koloss, wait for them to finish up, then come in and clean up the mess once they're done. TLR doesn't normally send mistings/mistborn/Inquisitors to deal with armies. He doesn't need to. He sends the Koloss, then his regulars to clean up afterwards. Secondly, the Rosharans aren't 'trained for chasm warfare'. They've only been fighting in the Chasms for 5 years. Before that, they fought for thousands of years in regular warfare, on normal battlefields. In fact, in WOK Dalinar specifically mentions how the Alethi had trouble fighting the Parshendi in the chasms until they adjusted their tactics to Chasm warfare. While I completely understand your point on 'environment', A: it doesn't really apply, and B: What would you rather have in the jungles of Vietcong, WWI era trench fighters with combat experience, or late Napoleonic era conscripts with minimal combat experience or training whatsoever? Finally, you say that Scadrial would have equivalent leadership to Roshar. This is nonsensical. Scadrial doesn't have any military leaders. Roshar is full of trained, experienced generals who've spent their whole lives at war, or preparing for war. Scadrials best equivalent is Clubs! A guy with moderate combat experience, who himself says that he's under-qualified and complains about how Scadrial spent too much time at peace and isn't ready for war, who doesn't really want to fight, and would rather be a carpenter! Scadrial just doesn't have the depth of leadership and experience that Roshar does, not in the slightest. The only person on Scadrial with real large-scale combat experience is the Lord Ruler, and if he gets involved his combat experience is the least relevant of his abilities. As Voidus said, that was to put down little rebellions. The Lord Ruler already ruled the world. He didn't need a fully organized and outfitted army to put down rebellions. If they get uppity, just send the koloss to wipe them out, and replenish their own forces with spikes. Now contrast it with Elend, Vin, and the Inquisitors. Vin and Elend used them coupled with soldiers, because they were actually doing a military campaign. Also the koloss are fully controlled. Once control is gained, it is not a constant struggle to maintain. They do exactly as ordered. Jastes controlled them via wooden coins, and not soothing. So how they acted during the siege, is the ole rts trick of point and click. Send your armies enmass and they will overwhelm the foe. Given all the advantages Luthadel had, and all the things stacked against the koloss, they still broke through solid fortifications, and overwhelmed the city. The only thing that stopped it, was Vin showing up, and soothing them to gain control. If she hadn't learned how to do that, even she would have been worn out and killed. So it took the Alethi years to adjust to chasm warfare, and your saying they can switch back easily overnight? After five years of it? In the jungles of Vietnam I would put my money on the Vietcong. Just like in Siberia I would put my money on the Russians. There is a reason we all learned from Napolean and Hitler, to never attack Russian in the winter. You can have career veteran soldiers and if they aren't trained how to survive in the desert, they are going to roast and die before they even fire a shot. My comment was your assumption on how Scadrial tactics would be used. So the heads of Straff's, Cett's, and the Garrison's armies wouldn't be skilled commanders? They certainly seem to be able to organize an army, and utilize it rather well from what we have seen. But according to you, Clubs, an ex-solder is the only military commander with any experience on Scadrial? edit: also those are just quotes from the Well of Ascension. I am sure I could find much more in Hero of Ages if need be. edit 2: you are also jumping back and forth with the time periods. So Scadrial is during the original Mistborn series, but Dalinar and Galivar are still around, when it is 300 years earlier long before they were born?

I will provide quotes regarding all three of your points. Give me like a half an hour or so.

To the best of my recollection no, so that could be very true. Though if you have kids, and there is parts of the book from Sadeus's and Lalai's perspective, why wouldn't they mention them even once?

Kaladin figured it all out, but didn't tell her. So he knows but she doesn't.

Koloss aren't just slow and bumbling. They are strong but also far faster than their size lets on. So blow for blow, they equal the speed and strength of a shardbearer. Stomlight and pewter users are faster than shardbearers and by extension koloss. That is why there seems to be the misnomer on the speed of a koloss. Shardbearers and koloss are faster than normal people, but slower than stormlight and pewter burners. The koloss Elend killed was taken unawares so that is not a good illustration of their ability or power. A tineye sniper can take a shardbearer unawares and drop him in one shot. Does that mean anyone can drop a shardbearer? I never said the pusher with duralumin wouldn't be pushed back. I stated it wouldn't necessarily need pewter depending on what is being pushed on to survive said push. I then referenced 3 scenes where Vin used duralumin to push or pull without using pewter to survive said push or pull. As was also brought up in that thread is you cannot effectively wield a weapon, using an iron grip with it the entire time. Otherwise you would only be capable of short over hand chops, and seriously hamper your own speed and defense. Finally you would not be able to see when the pusher intended to push on said blade to brace yourself as there is no visible manifestation to others regarding pushes and pulls. So your argument for why Rosharian soldiers would destroy koloss is because there is a chance the koloss would be sent in without any leadership or support? If the Rosharians get to have competent leaders then so does Scadrial. Also for soldiers so trained and veterans, they are trained and veterans for chasm warfare. Take World War 2 era trench warfare fighters and put them into Vietnam and see how they fare against Vietcong guerilla warfare. Take Vietcogn guerilla warfare and have then fight Soviet Russa on their soil. Trained soliders are great, when they are trained for the environment they fight in, in the style of warfare required, with the level of technology employed. Train archers all you want. If I show up with a tank, I will still win. Not saying Scadrial will have the higher level of technology. I am just illustrating the point more regarding what kind of training these soldiers have matters.

Well I would also like to point out that I feel shardblades were never designed or intended to damage shardplate regardless whether they get a boon or not. Knights radiant have shardplate, and get sprenblades. Why would you design your sword with the intention of it working better on destroying your own defense? To my knowledge we haven't seen any inclination that there might be radiant shardplate vs a voidbringer shardplate. Yes a listener uses one later, but if we are trying to see if there is an inherent boon, then that would mean it was there from the start, back when the shardblades were sprenblades and the shardplate were wielded by radiants.

But it does become more dangerous for the mother and child, with increased occurrences of premature birth. And that is with all our current medical advances. Not impossible, but not optimal.

Well a lot of these, assuming the work as theorized, could mimic allomantic pewter without having to actually use pewter. Endure pain, improved balance, endurance, and so on. Only downside is assuming you are a ferring, you wouldn't be able to heal all the damage you ignored lol.

They are called metal minds. How would removing pain stop your body from healing naturally? Anesthesia removes pain, but the human body still heals.

The Alethi didn't know the Parshendi (the parshmen were a different story) existed till Dalinar stumbled across them on a chasmfiend hunt with Galivar. Before Galivar was alive, the princedoms were all separate with no unified king. I forgot when Sunmaker did his unification, but that was fleeting too.

I will check, but at least when he got the spike to begin with, he had to be told by Ruin to check for pewter before he noticed the power source and then burned it. So it wasn't like, ingest pewter, immediate power source. Which again makes me wonder why the worry about burning a non allomantically viable metal. If all I had to do was down a metal, look for the power, and not see it to realize it wasn't burnable, then why couldn't I just vomit it up and not worry about poisoning? Unless noticing the power source is included in burning? edit: found the quote! Hero of Ages: page 161 Dully, Spook took another vial. He worked off the stopper with his teeth, feeling the fires blaze around him. The far wall was nearly gone. The fires crept toward him. He drank the contents of the vial, then searched inside of himself, seeking tin. But there was none. Spook cried out in despair, dropping the vial. it had contained no tin. how would that have saved him anyway? It would have made him feel the flames, and his wound, more acutely. "Spook!" the voice commanded. "Burn it!" "There is no tin!" Spook yelled. "Not tin! The man who owned this house was no Tineye!" Not tin. Spook blinked. Then reaching within himself he found something completely unexpected. Something he'd never thought to ever see, something that shouldn't have existed. A new metal reserve. He burned it. So until Ruin literally pointed it out, Spook did not even see it was there before it was noticed as a new reserve. Which still leaves the situation confused.

This is the scene: Hero of Ages page 651: "Eat it," Elend said. Demoux did as asked. He stood for a moment. fast forward a few paragraphs as Elend reasons out his theory in his own mind Demoux looked up, eyes widening. And Elend smiled. So we have no indication what Demoux experienced. He could have ate it. Tried burning it, looked up, saw atium shadows from Elend and then eyes widen. Or he could have searched, found a power source, looked up and eyes widened in surprise that there was a source of power. Also consider when Vin was first trained to be a mistborn, she had to be told to look for other power sources before she noticed them, and when she was a street thief, brass was so tiny she didn't even see a source but was "burning" it as her "luck". Again yes I know she is mistborn. But what it comes down to it is we do not have a mistings point of view when attempting to burn metals other than their own.

I believe there was a thread that explained that instead of handwavium, the reason for the not crushing ones own body involves the higgs bosson I think? I took it to understand that by storing, and making yourself cooler, the heat travels to you, and then is transferred into the metal minds. Like a heat sink

But all we get that implies that is their sudden shock when they down the vial. It could be any of these possibilities: Demoux downs pewter, sees nothing, and has to vomit it up later so he doesn't get metal poisoning Demoux downs pewter, attempts to burn it, nothing happens, so shakes his head saying it doesn't work Demoux downs atium, suddenly sees a power source, and looks shocked that he can burn it Demoux downs atium, attempts to burn it, sees atium shadows confirming he can use it (we do not get his perspective, just see it from Elend's), and looks shocked that he can burn it That is the problem. At least for me. I could just be splitting straws here though

If I recall correctly the whole reason for all of this, is that WoB stated that a firesoul is only immune to their own body heat increase, not external. That is the secondary boon for being a firesoul. edit: I suck at searching for WoB, but what is on the coppermind I believe references it. See below: A brass Ferring is known as a Firesoul. Brass is used to store warmth. While filling a brassmind, a Feruchemist will be cool.[1] A Brass Ferring's body, not unlike an Iron Ferring's, is able to resist the higher temperatures of their Feruchemy, but is not immune to intense heat in general. [3] By cooling the body by filling a brassmind, however, one could resist higher temperatures - heat would flow to the colder region that is your body, allowing one to become immune to fire and other sources of intense heat by carefully regulating the rate at which one filled their metalmind

Ah that makes sense then, since the Last Desolation was something like a 1000 years ago I think. So if Mistborn precedes Stormlight by 300 years, then yeah Roshar may be even in a worst state as there wouldn't be any radiants to assist at all.

lol I was just about to make that point. The time line is a huge issue. If it is Era 1 for mistborn, could anyone figure out how many years preceding the Stormlight archive that is? and then reference the stormlight archive to possibly figure out what was happening in that world at that time? Because as you said, as far as we know, the heralds could be helping out, and have an entire battle trained army of radiants and maybe even the dawnshards too during that time period

She recognized it because Helaran threatened their father with it. When Dalinar stopped the chasmfiend's claw he glowed edit: quote for reference: Way of Kings page 209 Dalinar held back the claw and matched its strength, a figure in dark, silvery metal that almost seemed to glow. The beast trumpeted above, and Dalinar bellowed back a powerful, defiant yell.

It doesn't tell you anything about the story. I would reassure you more, but I have a feeling while doing so, I would spoil more lol. So basically, just read the latest books. They are awesome lol.

If I recall correctly, one of his biggest miffs was that an outsider would be the hero in his own people's prophesy. This was he made it that he was the hero, and he would have his own people to laud and worship him as that hero for ages to come.

I just realized no one thought to bring up Sixth of Dusk nor his bird Kokerlii and Sak. They could be used to keep the group hidden, as well as warm of traps in any building or location they infiltrate.

Just keep in mind that is a rather big spoiler in Bands of Mourning, and this is the general mistborn thread. Which is why I spoiler tagged it.