Pathfinder

I get what you are saying, and based on your response to the quote there is no conclusive way for me to convince you so all that is left is a WoB. (please don't take that statement negatively. I understand where you are coming from, just I disagree). The only other thing I could say, is that does occur on earth as well. I had an ex-girlfriend who was of Asian descent that had brown eyes so dark they looked black and she used to complain how hers is so dark you can't tell the color and how her ethnicity tends to have that. Now obviously that is not true of all asian ethnicities, but in her own experience she met a lot that also had the so dark it is black eye color.

According to the book, all darkeyes are so dark you cannot tell unless you use the right light. page 50 The Way of Kings Like Kaladin, the slave wore the remains of a brown sack tied with a rag, and he was darkeyes, of course - perhaps a deep dark green, though with darkeyes it was hard to tell. They all looked brown or black unless you caught them in the right light. page 653 The Way of Kings "Sigzil said these violet eyes of mine aren't native to Alethkar. He thinks I must have Veden Blood in me." "Your eyes aren't violet," Moash said "Sure they are," Dunny said. "You can see it in bright sunlight. They're just really dark."

Hurt Mr. T; heal Mraize 9. Bleeder- 39 15. Taravangian- 55 19. Mraize- 6

Hurt Taravangian; heal Mraize. 9. Bleeder- 38 15. Taravangian- 55 19. Mraize- 7

My point is just because one can justify his goals in his own mind, does not make the actions he is taking to bring about said goal a lesser evil nor make him a lesser bad person. I am not saying you think what he is doing is ok. What I am saying is just because he thinks what he is doing is for an ultimate good, does not necessarily make that ultimate good actually good for everyone else, nor does it make the actions taken to get there, lesser than someone who openly wants something for themselves, especially when the scope of the fallout is exponentially numerically more. As you said, you are focusing on intention, I am focusing on action

But it is the Sons of Honor that assume it would be a better world for them with the Church back in control. The Church messed up royally in the past. It was so bad that the entire religion had to change just to survive. I will apologize, because I am falling prey to Godwin's Law, but there are groups of neo nazis who think it was great back when Hitler was in power. They think they are bringing about a better world. So if they use some kind of summoning spell (like tons of horror and fantasy movies use as plot) that will sacrifice a ton of lives to power it to bring back the great big baddie, then it isn't too bad because they are doing it for what they see is the greater good and would cause a better world? The whole knights radiant dealie is journey before destination. Wiping out countless innocent people, to get any result, even if it is a good one, isn't worth the good result.

Actually we have a very good indicator from Amaram's letter to Restares. Please see below: I can only conclude that we have been succesful, Restares. The reports from Dalinar's army indicate that Voidbringingers were not only spotted, but fought. Red eyes, ancient powers. They have apparently unleashed a new storm upon this world. I do not exult in this success. Lives will be lost. It has ever been our burden as the Sons of Honor. To return the Heralds, to return the dominance of the Church, we had to put the world into a crisis. That crisis we now have, a terrible one. The Heralds will return. How can they not, with the problems we now face? But many will die. So very many. Nalan send that it is worth the loss. Regardless, I will have more information soon. When I next write you, I hope to do so from Urithiru. —Amaram's letter to Restares[1] So they consciously went about bringing a crisis (the desolation), with the goal of bringing back the Heralds (that they didn't even know would return for certain, which means they could have caused the end of the world with no way to stop it), to get the Church back on top. They know countless people will die, but hope it will be worth it because the Church will be back in power. So again, nuking people that don't agree with you, hoping enough people that do agree with you survive to say you are right.

I agree and disagree. Yes I agree it is a matter of tint, but Kaladin remarks that the eye color is so dark, from afar it is typically just viewed as almost black. You really have to look hard into a person's eyes to tell if it is a blue dark eyes, green dark eyes, and so on.

But here is a question. You keep saying it is for the greater good. The reason the Sons of Honor are trying to bring about the Desolations is to bring back the Heralds. The Heralds are then to legitimize their church so then Alethkar becomes a theocracy once more. Amaram and the Sons of Honor are literally trying to bring about the apocalypse so the government can be run the way they think it should be. Its like shooting off the nuke to kill everyone that disagrees with you, and if any of your own supporters happen to die too, then ah well, at least everyone now agrees with you.

Sadeas's presence was not completely unexpected. Dalinar sent out an open invitation to the warcamps to go to the shattered plains to be teleported to Urithiru. Adolin was surprised that Sadeas accepted the invitation. The amount of time it took for Sadeas to organize his entire army, as well as camp followers, "break down" their mini "city" and relocate to Urithiru, would be sufficient enough to prepare and get an assassin into place. I see his reaction regarding the shardblade as a mix of both daze and thought. He doesn't know Dalinar is now a Radiant. That is happening on the roof during or slightly after his murder of Sadeas. As far as Adolin is concerned, that is still his father's rightful blade taken from him by Sadeas. Now if we thought things through, we would know there was no way Adolin could present Oathbringer to his father without revealing him to be Sadeas's killer, but maybe in the daze, all he thought was getting his father's sword away from Sadeas and his people. At the very least, it was with the intention of depriving an enemy of a powerful shard. They still have shardplate. This would return them to the handicap they had in the beginning. I don't know if he thought it out that much, but again I feel it was more "This is my father's sword, I want to keep it safe from other people till I figure out what to do with it. Tossing it there seems like a good idea at least for now" Maxal does make a good point about the potential crest, but even if it didn't, there would be the question of absence. A knife is used to kill Sadeas. Adolin's knife is suddenly unaccounted for. The connection might be made from that alone. Though it is a big might If it was a standard issue army knife I could see your point, but that would also require Adolin either stealing someone else's, thereby possibly implicating them, or having to get a new one. Again these issues are stretches, but are possibilities. So a bunch of things. First the comment that an assassin would not stab a victim in the eye. There is the assassin Jasnah met with who was referred to as "The Weeper". The reason for this is she would carve out the eyes of the target she killed. So there is precedent for an assassin "going for the eyes". Second, Adolin in a daze hid the shardblade rather easily. Urithiru is a huge place that is just starting being explored. Placing the blade in a bolt hole in a place that would take weeks to fully explore is not unrealistic. Third, regarding the assertion that there is not enough time for an assassin to infiltrate a highprince's army, sneak into Urithiru, and remain undetected for multiple days. I have one name to counter that, Mraize. That is literally exactly what he did. He was able to get into an entourage, get into Urithiru, had enough free movement to locate Shallan and confront her at the exact right time to be with her one on one for an extended conversation. That is the exact scenario you stated was impossible to occur for Sadeas.

(it is a real metal, normally toxic to ingest, and might be problematic to attain, but very possible) Tensors. There is just so much inorganic matter in a city like new york, plus being able to tensor bullets? Awesomeness (assuming no epic homicidal maniacness) would you rather be a shard tied to a planet, or be hoid?

That question is a pretty big mine field. It has been discussed regarding a different subject (I believe it was regarding breaths) and was handled respectfully but we were no closer to coming to a conclusion. Regarding regrowing fillings, since the body refers to your "ideal" form, plus with how you view yourself, why wouldn't it just grow a new healthy tooth instead of reproduce the filling?

So to clarify a few things, first, although it is a little vague, it appears that the blade Adolin tossed out the window was Oathbringer. He kept his knife, and scratched out the marks he made on the wall with his shardblade. Ialai was not that far ahead so I think they would notice Sadeas's absences shortly, though Adolin appeared to have enough time to leave the crime scene, and appear far enough away that the scouts would think he was in that new area all along. So it appears he still has the bloody cufflinks, and murder weapon on his person for later disposal. As it is somewhat ambiguous, I have included the passage below and bolded the pertinent portions: Sadeas shook for a moment, blood pooling around the blade as Adolin worked it to be certain. A second later, a shardblade appeared beside Sadeas – his father’s Shardblade. Sadeas was dead. Adolin stumbled back to not get blood on his clothing, though his cuffs were already stained. Stormed. Had he just done that? Had he just murdered a highprince? Dazed, he stared at that weapon. Neither man had summoned his Blade for the fight. The weapons might be worth a fortune, but they’d do less good than a rock in such a close – quarters fight. Thoughts coming more clearly, Adolin picked up the weapon and stumbled away. He ditched the Blade out the window, dropping it down into one of the platerlike outcroppings of the terrace below. It might be safe there. After that, he had the presence of mind to cut off his cuffs, remove his chalk mark on the wall by scraping it free with his own Blade, and walk as far away as he could before finding one of his scouting parties and pretending he’d been in that area all along. So it looks like when referring to a shardblade, it gets a capital B, which is why I believe it was Oathbringer he dropped, rather than the knife. Since it does not specifically say he picked up the murder weapon, it could still be in Sadeas's eye. But I do not think so, as he had the presence of mind to cut off his cuffs, and it did not note what he did with them. I do not think he would just leave them on the floor as that would aid in identifying him. So although it does not explicitly state it, I am personally leaning that he still has the bloody cuffs, and knife on his person till he can find a better way to dispose of them, and left oathbringer where it was to possibly grab it later, since he remarks to himself that it should be safe there.

I thought there was a WoB somewhere where he stated the intent of the shard that is hiding has nothing to do with why it is hiding/focused on surviving. To clarify, the shard is not hiding because it is the shard "cowardice". Basically Honor, Cultivation, Ruin, Preservation, etc all could have been that shard. Just because they want to honor, cultivate, ruin, preserve, etc doesn't mean they wouldn't have a reason to hide. Now obviously they aren't, but I was just using that to illustrate the point.

Well the shard would either not invest at all (doesn't want to be bothered), or invest completely so it doesn't have to make any choices "here's all this power, now leave me alone." The planet would be made up of either humanoid snails or sloths. There abilities would be time travel. If they got into a situation they didn't like, they would either hop into the future, or hop into the past, so they could avoid ever dealing with it, and they wouldn't have to make any physical effort to get rid of it.

Maybe sister? I feel like the joke is more the impossibility of Kaladin being called it as only a woman has that title. So unless he magically has a sex change, there is no way he is a kaluk'i'iki and thus no way he could manage not getting eaten by chasmfiends or killed in floods. Regarding the "name you", in our own language we use that too. Just its more like "if you get me out of this bind, I will call you brother". Total stretch I know, but just a thought I had.

I still stand by the opposite of Odium is my shard of indifference, held by the vessel named "meh"

Well here is my line of thinking at least. Galivar was possibly, or dare I say likely a Son of Honor. His actions in attempting to bring back the parshendi "gods" with the rest of the sons of honor, is what (at least appears at this time), resulted in his assassination. This assassination lead to the vengeance pact. The pursuit of the vengeance pact lead to the research of the old forms, which lead to stormform, which lead to calling the everstorm and returning the voidbringers. Had Galivar and the sons of honor not done so, Odium would have needed another way to "get things moving" as it were. Now the question is, were the spren starting to bond radiants because they knew the next desolation was coming, or because they felt it was time to give humanity another chance? If it is the former, then we would have the same time line of bonding, but just different people regarding the bonds. Maybe Galivar making a unified Alethkar would have made for a stronger nation and unified army to fight the voidbringers and aid the knights radiant when they come. If it is the latter, then Galivar might have ended up even bonding a spren, and the knights radiant be re-founded long before the voidbringers return. Without that catalyst, a lot could have been different in my opinion. Amaram is a high rank within that organization and was actively helping them achieve that goal. So personally I see it as every member of the sons of honor are responsible for every single life lost at the hands of the desolations. That's why I lean towards Amaram. Sadeas is a horrible person, true, but he is simple in that horribleness. Amaram's ambitions and scope are much much much larger. How did Jack Sparrow put it? "A dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly, it's the honest ones you have to watch out for, you never can predict if they're going to do something incredibly stupid." Actively trying to bring about Armageddon? That sounds pretty stupid to me lol.

But Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, Renarin, Jasnah, and Lift would have all been further along in their oaths before the everstorm came had it taken longer for the desolation to come. The knights radiant could have been re-founded in earnest by that point. Urithiru could have been discovered and the oath gates activated prior to it, allowing for a very similar occurrence as in mistborn. So if the Sons of Honor got the desolation to happen sooner, or happen at all, then they are responsible for a lot of deaths.

No worries, and I agree using the "term" Trell would be best for now till it is finally confirmed what "Trell" is lol.

Right. Basically the way the convo went was, Odium could be doing it. I stated but isn't he trapped on Braize? Then it was said that the Unmade could be doing it. To which I replied, could a splinter be able to black the information from not only a shard, but the combination of two shards? Then that is where the strength thing came in. Now you are saying Trell is doing it. Which I am fine with. I was just confused by the earlier assertions because from what I know, Odium didn't have the freedom of movement between the oath pact and being invested to do so, and his splinters wouldn't have the power, even if used skillfully, enough to counter Harmony from being aware of the outside cosmere. Another shard maybe, but I feel a splinter is stretching it.

Thanks. I do agree it might not be a 1 to 1 ratio, but in looking for the WoB i mentioned, I found these two concerning your post and oversleep's: SHADOWSABER223 () If Odium were lured to Scadrial, would his physical body turn into a burnable metal? If so, could Harmony create an Odium-metal legion of Mistings to consume and burn it? Would that weaken him sufficiently enough to be killed or destroyed? BRANDON SANDERSON The difficulty here is, again, one of Identity. People born on Scadrial have an Identity tied to it and its magic. Odium would have to do certain things to make them able to use a magic he fuels. He has done these things on Roshar, so it's not impossible for him to manage it on Scadrial. @Oversleep I took that to mean Brandon was referring to Odium investing on Roshar. Could there be something else he did if it wasn't investing? BRANDON SANDERSON They were two shards. Yes, one entity can hold more than one. Remember that holding a shard changes you, over time. Rayse knows this, and prefers to leave behind destroyed rivals as opposed to taking their power and potentially being overwhelmed by it. so yes Rayse never held two, nor does he ever want to hold more than one shard. So unless he can get rid of Harmony, he will always be at a handicap persay.

But there is a WoB that Odium is scared of Harmony because Harmony united to shards and that Harmony is stronger than him. So the number of shards you hold should based on that WoB constitute a level of strength. Also you have it in reverse. Preservation could see the future better than Ruin, but they could all see the future. Just some are better at it than others.

But here is a genuine question, for information, not to disprove, but how are the unmade running around, and the voidbringers happening if odium didn't invest in roshar? I know he would rather not invest, but I thought he pretty much was forced to in roshar's case.

So then the question is, could a splinter(s) hold enough power to block two whole shards united in one, from knowing whats going on?