Restoring the Shard of Honor

[Sp00ks]

So, Brandon has talked about how a Splintered Shard can be restored, though he didn't elaborate much besides that there would need to be a new vessel and that it has never occurred thus far in the Cosmere. What would it take to actually do this? Would you just need to bring all of/enough of the splinters together and Honor will just reform?

We know that the Spren are splinters that hold some of Honor (and Cultivation), and the Stormfather seems to hold quite a bit, and is capable of supplying Honor's investiture through the Highstorms. However, Spren clearly existed long before Honor was splintered, so recreating Honor through Spren seems unlikely. The Stormfather claimed he was a sliver, so he probably holds a significant portion of the shard, but clearly you need a lot more than just the Stormfather to fix Honor. Other than that, Dalinar can open Honor's perpendicularity, but that also clearly isn't enough either.

The way Odium talked to Dalinar at the end of Oathbringer made it feel like Dalinar was very close to Honor/Tanavast, but Dalinar definitely isn't a Shard, and if he loses next book, which people generally seem to think is likely, he probably never will be. There's another theory that Kaladin will take it up, and him being called "Son of Tanavast" definitely makes this seem possible, but how would he actually do it?  I think Kaladin would fit well with the Intent of Honor, but the shard needs to be fixed first. Maybe it has something to do with Adhesion? Maybe somehow you could "glue together" all the splinters with some super spiritual form of Adhesion? I sorta doubt Kaladin or Dalinar have that sort of power in them, I doubt even 5th ideal Bondsmith could.

However, Ishar did mention how swearing ideals near him could bring back some of his sanity. Perhaps in swearing these oaths, some of Honor is pulled together for a bit? After all, Honor was all about oaths. Plus, Ishar tried to "Steal" Dalinar's Radiant bond with the Stormfather, is it possible a powerful enough Bondsmith could instead "give" his bond to someone? What if Dalinar, after losing to Odium, "gave" his bond to Kaladin, to protect it from Odium. We know its technically possible to have multiple Nahel Bonds at once through a WoB, maybe as a 5th ideal Windrunner/Bondsmith, Kaladin would have such a Connection to "honor's truest surge" that he could literally pull the splinters of Honor back together and recreate the Shard? Especially if he swore both 5th ideals at once, both orders holding the surge of Adhesion, maybe that would pull enough of Honor together to allow someone to take the power?

I know this is definitely a long shot theory, but I really feel like Honor will come back at some point. There's the death rattle: "Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns!", and Honor seems a lot more "broken" than Odium or Taravangian do. Plus there's: "He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!", couldn't Honor be the fallen title? Kaladin lives in the tower, serves the crown of Kholin, and is known for his spear. 

[ElMonoEstupendo]

I suppose the big question is, what are the other splinters of Honor one would need to reunite?

Obviously there's the Stormfather. Tick for Dalinar. The next biggest concentrations of Honor's power seem to me to be the Heralds, the Honorblades, and maybe the planet Roshar itself.

The trouble is, all these things existed before Tanavast died and Honor was splintered. Did anything new turn up after God died?

Actually, now that I think about it, there's an entire city of honorspren that were explicitly not around during the Recreance, just before Tanavast died. They must have been created afterwards, but were they children of the Stormfather like Syl?

Side Note: The Broken One could also be Adonalsium - the ultimate ultimate endgame might be the unison of all sixteen powers again, and I think Roshar (the planet) might have been specifically designed for this.

[mathiau]

Since Odium mentioned Dalinar had Ascended during the battle of Thaylen Field I doubt the Splinters other than the Stormfather are relevant, the wells of power the honoursprens use to make children probably are though

Edited May 3, 2021 by mathiau

[Sp00ks]

2 hours ago, ElMonoEstupendo said:

Actually, now that I think about it, there's an entire city of honorspren that were explicitly not around during the Recreance, just before Tanavast died. They must have been created afterwards, but were they children of the Stormfather like Syl?

Are you talking about Lasting Integrity, the city, or just the Honorspren that were born after Syl? Because, I'm pretty sure it's explicitly stated Syl is the only living Honorspren born directly of the Stormfather. It was (I think?) also stated that the other Honorspren were born the way spren regularly are

Edited May 4, 2021 by Sp00ks
Spelling

[mathiau]

2 hours ago, ElMonoEstupendo said:

Actually, now that I think about it, there's an entire city of honorspren that were explicitly not around during the Recreance, just before Tanavast died. They must have been created afterwards, but were they children of the Stormfather like Syl?

Ten of them where made by the Stormfather, he then taught them how to create other honoursprens

[Sp00ks]

Just now, mathiau said:

Ten of them where made by the Stormfather, he then taught them how to create other honoursprens

Didn't all the others "die" in the Recreance?

[mathiau]

Just now, Sp00ks said:

Didn't all the others "die" in the Recreance?

I'm geting the feeling you're implying I implied they did not

[Sp00ks]

Just now, mathiau said:

I'm geting the feeling you're implying I implied they did not

Nope, I'm just making sure I was correct in what I had said. 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

10 minutes ago, Sp00ks said:

Didn't all the others "die" in the Recreance?

For his first batch (the group including Syl), yeah, they "died" in the Recreance. Eventually, though, he ended up making ten more a while after the Recreance who went and made their own children.

Edited May 4, 2021 by LewsTherinTelescope

[mathiau]

1 minute ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

For his first batch (the group including Syl), yeah, they "died" in the Recreance. Eventually, though, he ended up making ten more a while after the Recreance who went and made their own children.

I'm pretty sure Syl was not from the first batch, she was noted to be too young for the bound implying she's the last to have been made before the Recreance

[LewsTherinTelescope]

3 minutes ago, mathiau said:

I'm pretty sure Syl was not from the first batch, she was noted to be too young for the bound implying she's the last to have been made before the Recreance

The Stormfather only started making new honorspren pretty close in time to the False Desolation. Prior to that, Honor himself made them. OB 108:

Quote

“The honorspren were created by Honor himself, many thousands of years ago. You call him the Almighty, and … I’m afraid he’s dead.”

“Which makes sense, as it’s pretty much the only excuse I would have accepted.”

“That wasn’t levity, human,” Notum said. “Your god is dead.”

“Not my god. But please continue.”

“Well…” Notum frowned; he’d obviously thought the concept of Honor’s death would have been more difficult for Kaladin to accept. “Well, sometime before his death, Honor stopped creating honorspren. We don’t know why, but he asked the Stormfather to do it instead.”

“He was setting up an heir. I’ve heard that the Stormfather is a kind of image of the Almighty.”

“More like a weak shadow,” Notum said. “You … actually understand this?”

“Understand, no. Follow? Mostly.”

“The Stormfather created only a handful of children. All of these, save Sylphrena, were destroyed in the Recreance, becoming deadeyes. This loss stung the Stormfather, who didn’t create again for centuries. When he was finally moved to remake the honorspren, he created only ten more. My great-grandmother was among them; she created my grandfather, who created my father, who eventually created me.

Rereading it, I was making a slight assumption, it's not explicitly stated there were not multiple batches, but the fact he made "only a handful" makes me doubtful.

[Ba-Ado-Fisherman]

5 hours ago, ElMonoEstupendo said:

Side Note: The Broken One could also be Adonalsium - the ultimate ultimate endgame might be the unison of all sixteen powers again, and I think Roshar (the planet) might have been specifically designed for this

I wholeheartedly believe that is where we will end up.  Seems like too perfect of a direction for the Cosmere to go.

[Valigus]

On 5/3/2021 at 11:18 PM, Ba-Ado-Fisherman said:

I wholeheartedly believe that is where we will end up.  Seems like too perfect of a direction for the Cosmere to go.

I agree I believe cultivation has been manipulating a lot of people on roshar to make perfect shard vessels

 

[Use the Falchion]

On 5/3/2021 at 2:20 PM, Sp00ks said:

Plus, Ishar tried to "Steal" Dalinar's Radiant bond with the Stormfather, is it possible a powerful enough Bondsmith could instead "give" his bond to someone? What if Dalinar, after losing to Odium, "gave" his bond to Kaladin, to protect it from Odium. We know its technically possible to have multiple Nahel Bonds at once through a WoB, maybe as a 5th ideal Windrunner/Bondsmith, Kaladin would have such a Connection to "honor's truest surge" that he could literally pull the splinters of Honor back together and recreate the Shard? Especially if he swore both 5th ideals at once, both orders holding the surge of Adhesion, maybe that would pull enough of Honor together to allow someone to take the power?

I actually have a very similar theory and thought process! But would Kaladin even need to swear the Fifth Ideal of the Bondsmiths? Or would Dalinar being the Fifth Ideal and transferring his Connection as it is do the job?

I think that the Contest of Champions will result in Dalinar Swearing an Ideal (or maybe even two, if necessary), and in the process of doing so, Ascend. During his Ascension, Dalinar will take on the Connection Odium's chosen Champion has to Odium while hoisting his Connection as Honor's Champion onto someone else.* Lastly, he'll throw his Nahel Bond to Kaladin** who will do something awesome in that moment as well. (He'd probably Ascend, since all of the power's there, but the two Nahel Bonds, the remnants of Honor, and the special nature of Dalinar's Bondsmith stuff and previous Ascension could mean that something else happens instead.) 

However, this would be disrupting the rules of the Contest, since Odium didn't choose Dalinar to be his Champion (I mean technically he sort of did in OB, but that was before the Contest was in place), which would leave Odium open to either 1) leave the planet, or 2) wreck the planet before the official rules bind him. 

 

*Taln is the most likely candidate IMO, since I believe he has a special role to play in all of this. Szeth would also work, if Dalinar wants his soul erased so that Odium couldn't do any funny business with it...and for tragic repetition. The first part of the series would bookend with Szeth killing Navani's husband...that's pretty twisted. 

**Kaladin is more likely to accept it and is probably closer to Dalinar's successor in this case than Adolin (who the Stormfather would probably not like to go do due to Maya), Renarin (who the Stormfather would probably not like to go to due to Glys), Jasnah (IDK if the Stormfather would or wouldn't mind, but I don't think Dalinar would put her in that position for political reasons) or even Navani (already a Bondsmith, and I don't think the Sibling and the Stormfather want to share a Radiant). 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Use the Falchion

[apepi]

I wonder if you could take different splinters and create a different shard with a different intention. Like can you take pieces and arrange them into a different way? Like we know the Unmade can change(though they would be corrupted?), why can't a shard change itself with different pieces or such? We know that putting tow shards together makes a different shard.

[Jondesu]

On 6/6/2021 at 8:54 AM, Use the Falchion said:

The first part of the series would bookend with Szeth killing Navani's husband...that's pretty twisted. 

I hate that this theory sounds so plausible… I’ve been suspecting Dalinar might not survive the first half of SA, at least in some capacity, for a while.

[Use the Falchion]

4 hours ago, Jondesu said:

I hate that this theory sounds so plausible… I’ve been suspecting Dalinar might not survive the first half of SA, at least in some capacity, for a while.

Yeah, I don't think he's going to make it out either, but I don't think the aforementioned theory will be the way he goes out.