theory Surgebinding Theory

[mathiau he/him]

1 hour ago, Parzival said:

Pretty sure its the same prinicple that allows airpod pros to cancel out sound, they play a frequency that has the same waveform just 180 degrees different like Andy said. Because both are played at the same time they cancel out, but if either was payed alone they would sound the same. So essentially a fused is "playing" or connected to the tone of voidlight, so anti-voidlight cancels that out and hurts them, but to anyone else they are the same thing.

The thing is, in Harmony Ruin has its frequency shifted so the cancelling would not happen

[Bejarden he/him]

The same would happen with Towerlight and Rythm of War, Right

Playing Anti-stormlight would not do anything to them as the tone has shifted

 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 hour ago, mathiau said:

The thing is, in Harmony Ruin has its frequency shifted so the cancelling would not happen

There is no confirmation that Ruin and Preservation causing problems for one another is due to the same reaction as anti-Investiture. 

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

26 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

The same would happen with Towerlight and Rythm of War, Right

Playing Anti-stormlight would not do anything to them as the tone has shifted

 

Indeed. Harmony between the two Tones means that they've changed from their original ones.

 

Wait, would that make Adonalsium white noise or something? just "all the tones" at once?

[mathiau he/him]

Just now, LewsTherinTelescope said:

There is no confirmation that Ruin and Preservation causing problems for one another is due to the same reaction as anti-Investiture. 

I don't see what this has to do with what I've just said. In the Rhythms of War and Sciences the tones where shifted so in Harmony it will be the same too.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Just now, mathiau said:

I don't see what this has to do with what I've just said. In the Rhythms of War and Sciences the tones where shifted so in Harmony it will be the same too.

I misunderstood what you were saying then, my bad. 

[apepi]

So...yall trying to say both anti-stormlight and stormlight could frequency shift themselves and become mega-stormlight?

[Parzival]

13 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Indeed. Harmony between the two Tones means that they've changed from their original ones.

 

Wait, would that make Adonalsium white noise or something? just "all the tones" at once?

I agree, ruin and preservation changing into harmony has most certainly shifted their tones and has likely resulted in a new one. 

I mean since the Rhyth of War and Towerlght have their own tones despite being two tones combined, Adonalsium would just have a unique tone that somehow encompasses aspects of the tones of all 16 shards

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

5 hours ago, Parzival said:

I mean since the Rhyth of War and Towerlght have their own tones despite being two tones combined, Adonalsium would just have a unique tone that somehow encompasses aspects of the tones of all 16 shards

Some sort of "true neutral" tone? I suppose, but the point that makes me think "white noise" instead is the fact that the Shattering could have made Shards with different Intents and therefore, probably, different Tones from what we do have.

[mathiau he/him]

On 15/03/2021 at 6:44 AM, apepi said:

So...yall trying to say both anti-stormlight and stormlight could frequency shift themselves and become mega-stormlight?

Well, in reality things like electron-positron exists and are not that unstable (that's called positronium)

18 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Some sort of "true neutral" tone? I suppose, but the point that makes me think "white noise" instead is the fact that the Shattering could have made Shards with different Intents and therefore, probably, different Tones from what we do have.

Aaaaand one more argument against the possibility to reforge Adonalsium

[Parzival]

18 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Some sort of "true neutral" tone? I suppose, but the point that makes me think "white noise" instead is the fact that the Shattering could have made Shards with different Intents and therefore, probably, different Tones from what we do have.

That is a good point, but I just can't picture a scene with Adonalsium and just white noise. It just doesn't seem very holy and magestic the way the Pure Tones are. I think that the Pure Tone of Adonalsium could have been split differently so different rhythms and aspects of it would have been assigned differently

[LewsTherinTelescope]

48 minutes ago, mathiau said:

Well, in reality things like electron-positron exists and are not that unstable (that's called positronium)

The second line of the article: "...The system is unstable..." (From a skim, the lifetime of the most stable variant is still only a microsecond? Which I guess is really long compared to some things, but still not exactly long-term lol.)

But I do also wonder whether such a thing, if extraordinarily short-lived, might be possible with Investiture and anti-Investiture, same.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

The second line of the article: "...The system is unstable..." (From a skim, the lifetime of the most stable variant is still only a microsecond? Which I guess is really long compared to some things, but still not exactly long-term lol.)

But I do also wonder whether such a thing, if extraordinarily short-lived, might be possible with Investiture and anti-Investiture, same.

well, when the alternative is instant anialation than anything is a long time

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Just now, Frustration said:

well, when the alternative is instant anialation than anything is a long time

True enough

[mathiau he/him]

17 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

The second line of the article: "...The system is unstable..." (From a skim, the lifetime of the most stable variant is still only a microsecond? Which I guess is really long compared to some things, but still not exactly long-term lol.)

But I do also wonder whether such a thing, if extraordinarily short-lived, might be possible with Investiture and anti-Investiture, same.

To give you an idea, neutral pions (a particle composed either of an up quark and an anti up quark or of a down quark and an anti down quark) have a lifetime of 8,4×10^-17 seconds and that's still long enough to be relevant for residual strong interaction (the thing that make proton and neutron hold together in nuclei) so yes, even if the least stable variant has a lifetime of 1,2×10^-10 seconds it's not that unstable

(We getting off-topic and it's my fault, aren't we?)

[LewsTherinTelescope]

5 minutes ago, mathiau said:

To give you an idea, neutral pions (a particle composed either of an up quark and an anti up quark or of a down quark and an anti down quark) have a lifetime of 8,4×10^-17 seconds and that's still long enough to be relevant for residual strong interaction (the thing that make proton and neutron hold together in nuclei) so yes, even if the least stable variant has a lifetime of 1,2×10^-10 seconds it's not that unstable

Huh, interesting. Still not likely to be particularly usable, I'd guess, though, no? (Unless the residual effects are what you're after, I suppose.)

[mathiau he/him]

7 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Huh, interesting. Still not likely to be particularly usable, I'd guess, though, no? (Unless the residual effects are what you're after, I suppose.)

Actually, some scientist are currently working on gamma ray lasers based on positronium

Edited March 16, 2021 by mathiau

[LewsTherinTelescope]

3 hours ago, mathiau said:

Actually, some scientist are currently working on gamma ray lasers based on positronium

.....I stand corrected 

Edited March 17, 2021 by LewsTherinTelescope

[Waffles]

It  seems like it would be hard to produce anti preservation/ruin since its not clear how one would trap either investiture. The very predictable behavior of shardic light on Roshar might make it easier to create anti-light than in other systems (how would you create anti-breaths? What is Ruin's analog to stormlight and mists?)

Edited March 18, 2021 by Waffles

[hskeeter]

On 3/16/2021 at 10:28 AM, Parzival said:

That is a good point, but I just can't picture a scene with Adonalsium and just white noise. It just doesn't seem very holy and magestic the way the Pure Tones are. I think that the Pure Tone of Adonalsium could have been split differently so different rhythms and aspects of it would have been assigned differently

I would think of Adonalsium versus a single shard is more like a the difference between a symphony orchestra vs a single instrument or a chord vs a single note.

[Parzival]

4 minutes ago, hskeeter said:

I would think of Adonalsium versus a single shard is more like a the difference between a symphony orchestra vs a single instrument or a chord vs a single note.

This is the perfect example of how I imagine the Pure Tone of Adonalsium sounding, thank you.

[hskeeter]

12 minutes ago, Parzival said:

This is the perfect example of how I imagine the Pure Tone of Adonalsium sounding, thank you.

Thanks, it took a little thought for the examples. 

On a side note: One of the things people forget when discussing light versus sound is they both have frequency involved, and thus behave very similarly in some aspects.

[Zesty Ranch]

On 3/13/2021 at 9:30 PM, apepi said:

But to a Fused, it sounds differently to them than Voidlight. While to a human, both sound the same.

So, as far as I've seen, the fused/parshendi seem to not only connect to tones differently but also have fundamental physical differences in how they hear different aspects of music. It's very possible they have sensitivities to phase changes which our brains tend to compress out in the earlier cochlear stages.

--> does anyone know of a WoB on parshendi ear structure to shed light on this?

Also, first ever post on 17th shard hi everyone

[Argenti he/him]

19 minutes ago, Zesty Ranch said:

Also, first ever post on 17th shard hi everyone

Hullo! Welcome, but please try to avoid bringing back posts from a long time ago, it's technically against the shards policy. I know it's hard, I've done it myself a couple times (you can make a new post though, especially when you have something cool to say)

19 minutes ago, Zesty Ranch said:

So, as far as I've seen, the fused/parshendi seem to not only connect to tones differently but also have fundamental physical differences in how they hear different aspects of music. It's very possible they have sensitivities to phase changes which our brains tend to compress out in the earlier cochlear stages.

Honestly, I understand every third word. But basically it's because fused are made voidlight, and anti void light cases them pain.

[alder24]

3 hours ago, Zesty Ranch said:

So, as far as I've seen, the fused/parshendi seem to not only connect to tones differently but also have fundamental physical differences in how they hear different aspects of music. It's very possible they have sensitivities to phase changes which our brains tend to compress out in the earlier cochlear stages.

--> does anyone know of a WoB on parshendi ear structure to shed light on this?

Also, first ever post on 17th shard hi everyone

Hey, welcome to the Shard.

Rhythms aren't really a physical sound - they are Spiritual connections to the Spiritual Realm, something they hear with their soul rather than ears:

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

Could a Soother prevent a listener from attuning a given rhythm?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No. A coppercloud could, but I hadn't thought about emotional allomancy interacting. See, the rhythm isn't your emotion and doesn't determine your mood. It is a direct connection to the spiritual realm. So I guess soothing could make it harder just like it makes anything harder, in the same way that driving a car would be harder. [recording starts here] And so, for the same reasons that you can, um, it is possible that a coppercloud can play with it. Not a normal power of a coppercloud, but you’ve seen them do stuff similar.

Footnote: Question was cut off in recording, first bit reproduced from memory
Boskone 54 (Feb. 17, 2017)