Awakened Army

[PleatherDuster]

I can't stop thinking about this one. 

Chapter 114: "They gave Teft a king's funeral, Soulcasting him to stone. A sculptor would be commissioned to create a depiction of Phendorana to erect next to him. The Sibling said there was a room, locked away, where the ancient Radiants stood forever as stone sentries. It would feel good to see Teft among them..."

Oh really? A "secret" room filled with statues of old Radiants? Why are they hidden? Why were they gathered together in the first place? If they were originally meant to memorialize dead comrades, wouldn't they be dispersed around the tower or with the families of loved ones? When the Tower was abandoned all those years ago, why go to the effort to gather them together in one hidden, locked room? And are they really "sentries" if they are, you know, made of stone and locked in a hidden room?

But anyways, anyone think we might get an undead Radiant army at some point? Not sure how exactly it would work, but I could see it happening. There's precedent with the Lifeless, although I think in that case the "soldiers" began as corpses? But...If you can Soucast a body into stone, could you also Soulcast stone into flesh? Sounds tricky unless the stone has a memory of being a body? 

I have some other thoughts on why this might be an exciting and plausible twist (and it's not just that Zombie Teft would be badass) but I need to let them marinate a bit more. But I would love to hear y'alls' thoughts on this. Anyone think this could happen?

 

[Master Knapper]

It absolutely is possible.  There is a person on the planet right now who has done it before.  And you are right, a stone ZombieTeft would be badass!

[Halyo_Alex]

5 hours ago, Master Knapper said:

It absolutely is possible.  There is a person on the planet right now who has done it before.  And you are right, a stone ZombieTeft would be badass!

Protecting Kaladin one last time...

[Karger]

Sorry to burst your bubble but we also do lock up ordinary cemeteries to stop vandalism.  The room was probably in an out of the way place and the radiants left the door locked when they left.  That being said soulcast statues are absolutely awakenable and it would be nice for Teft to get another chance to shine.

[TheSprengineer]

Spoiler

Wasn’t it the trick at the end of Warbreaker that the D’Delir statues had bones encased in them that remembered human movement?

It’d be super cool if the stone itself remembered being human, but then would it become a theoretical question about Soulcasting and Awakening combined?

Do the things turned to stone remember being human after they are told to be stone? The human shape is achieved of course, but stone alone cannot be awakened by pretty much anyone on Roshar OR Nalthis except for one person.

That changes if the soul of the item remembers after it is soulcast, what it used to be.

Edited February 7, 2021 by TheSprengineer
Formatting

[PleatherDuster]

On 2/5/2021 at 2:31 PM, Karger said:

Sorry to burst your bubble but we also do lock up ordinary cemeteries to stop vandalism.  The room was probably in an out of the way place and the radiants left the door locked when they left.  That being said soulcast statues are absolutely awakenable and it would be nice for Teft to get another chance to shine.

Oh no worries, my bubble is far from burst!  But yes, I think you make a good point. I could see that possibly being true... But in my mind, if the tower is being abandoned for military reasons (e.g. an invading Fused army), are Radiants really going to take the time to gather dozens (hundreds?) of heavy stone statues into a single hidden location (must be quite out-of-the way) so the Fused don't vandalize them? Seem like the fact that they were gathered together in the first place suggest they hold a value beyond that of simple statues. 

[mathiau]

So

Quote

Questioner

So the lighteyes that get Soulcast into stone, can they be Awakened?

Brandon Sanderson

*pause* So… Yes, but their soul is gone. When they get Soulcast into stone it is only the corpse, so yes they could.

Questioner

Would it be a lifeless or a-- Would it be like Awakening something inorganic or would them once being alive help?

Brandon Sanderson

The fact that they were once alive will help. There's a Spiritual Connection that still exists on the Spiritual Realm and that is going to help. But you're not going to get the person back. The fact that it is the exact form of a person is going to be really helpful. It would be a lot easier to Awaken that than it would be to Awaken other stone.

Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015)

And

Quote

Doc_John (paraphrased)

Hey! If you had the correct Intent in mind, could you Command a Lifeless to follow a Knight's Radiant Ideal? Like could you command it to "Protect those who cannot protect themselves"

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, this would be possible, though it would depend on the Lifeless and circumstances on how good a job they do at it. The command is a little abstract, and could end up not working as well as you want it to.

General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 22, 2020)

But sadly

Quote

little wilson

Can a Mistborn turned into a Lifeless still use Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

*long-ish pause* Uh, no.

little wilson

So I would assume that is the same for a Feruchemist?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah if you-- taking some-- Yeah.  No they can't.

Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015)

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, mathiau said:

But sadly

Well, he never said, to my knowledge that they couldn't bond a spren.

[mathiau]

Just now, Frustration said:

Well, he never said, to my knowledge that they couldn't bond a spren.

Currently sprens are the limiting factor to the number of Radiants so it probably won't happen, but yes there's no reason a Lifeless couldn't bound a spren. Especially one with too much breaths.

[paperstones]

Brandon has said that Zahel(Vasher) was doing "something" in RoW but it didn't in the narrative in the book and he will try to publish it at some point. Could he have spent some time in this "cemetery" preparing to assist? There is obviously something special about this place that will play a role.  

[Karger]

On 2/7/2021 at 2:39 PM, PleatherDuster said:

Oh no worries, my bubble is far from burst!  But yes, I think you make a good point. I could see that possibly being true... But in my mind, if the tower is being abandoned for military reasons (e.g. an invading Fused army), are Radiants really going to take the time to gather dozens (hundreds?) of heavy stone statues into a single hidden location (must be quite out-of-the way) so the Fused don't vandalize them? Seem like the fact that they were gathered together in the first place suggest they hold a value beyond that of simple statues. 

I just meant they had a dedicated room where they kept all of the statues and someone took the time to shut the door on their way out.

[PleatherDuster]

7 hours ago, Karger said:

I just meant they had a dedicated room where they kept all of the statues and someone took the time to shut the door on their way out.

Sure, if there's a room where all the Soulcast Radiants are all gathered together already, I agree it's easy and makes sense to lock it on the way out.

But still seems weird to have them gathered in a presumably out-of-the-way location (I'm presuming that since no one has found it yet...though it IS a tricky tower). Makes more sense (to me anyways) to gather and lock them up if they would be valuable to the enemy in some way (nothing I can't think of), or if they're intended to lie in wait for the True Desolation. 

On 2/7/2021 at 2:15 PM, mathiau said:

So

Quote

Questioner

So the lighteyes that get Soulcast into stone, can they be Awakened?

Brandon Sanderson

*pause* So… Yes, but their soul is gone. When they get Soulcast into stone it is only the corpse, so yes they could.

Questioner

Would it be a lifeless or a-- Would it be like Awakening something inorganic or would them once being alive help?

Brandon Sanderson

The fact that they were once alive will help. There's a Spiritual Connection that still exists on the Spiritual Realm and that is going to help. But you're not going to get the person back. The fact that it is the exact form of a person is going to be really helpful. It would be a lot easier to Awaken that than it would be to Awaken other stone.

Shadows of Self release party (Oct. 5, 2015)

Thanks for sharing that. That's interesting...the statues retain their spiritual connection. If there were a cognitive shadow in need of a body, and the statue/body could be awakened (or just soulcast into flesh even), could the shadow inhabit the body?  Would there be conflicting spiritual connections? (Mabye it's possible but you end up with "mindless" soldier?) What if it was the cognitive shadow belonging to that specific statue (lets assume it's Teft for the sake for fun)? You get a badass returned Radiant.

Also, the Fused can return into ANY body, basically destroying the spiritual connection of the body they steal, right? So the Radiants are/were at a huge disadvantage because the Fused can keep on coming back to life. But it seems like a Radiant with sufficient investiture should be able to do something similar, but they wouldn't want to destroy innocent an innocent person's spirit. So instead, why not just "save" the body until you need to return (i.e. the True Desolation). Oh and by the way, your old spren is kickin it as a dead-eye awaiting your return. 

[LewsTherinTelescope]

3 hours ago, PleatherDuster said:

But it seems like a Radiant with sufficient investiture should be able to do something similar

I definitely disagree, personally. The amount of Investiture needed to stick around as a CS seems likely to be a lot. Radiants don't even get enough Investiture to get any noticeable sort of Heightening-like boost, which you'd expect if there were enough Investiture to make them into CS.

[mathiau]

7 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I definitely disagree, personally. The amount of Investiture needed to stick around as a CS seems likely to be a lot. Radiants don't even get enough Investiture to get any noticeable sort of Heightening-like boost, which you'd expect if there were enough Investiture to make them into CS.

1st oath radiants survive a few minutes as CSs

[PleatherDuster]

10 hours ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I definitely disagree, personally. The amount of Investiture needed to stick around as a CS seems likely to be a lot. Radiants don't even get enough Investiture to get any noticeable sort of Heightening-like boost, which you'd expect if there were enough Investiture to make them into CS

I’m sure you’re right. One would surely need a LOT of investiture, although that’s sort of a vague term. Did all the original Fused have tons of investiture when they died (the first time) and that how they stuck around? (I really asking, do we know the history on this?).

I don’t quite understand your comment about them not getting a “Heightening-like” boost? I sort of thought that they did (each time they say new oaths), but I might have misunderstood.

[mathiau]

Just now, PleatherDuster said:

I’m sure you’re right. One would surely need a LOT of investiture, although that’s sort of a vague term. Did all the original Fused have tons of investiture when they died (the first time) and that how they stuck around? (I really asking, do we know the history on this?).

I don’t quite understand your comment about them not getting a “Heightening-like” boost? I sort of thought that they did (each time they say new oaths), but I might have misunderstood.

We just know Odium did something to them and that he never did it again.

An Heightening-like boost would be something like better colour perception, perfect pitch or life senses. Also the stormlight surge when swearing an oath is not something every order have, probably only Windrunners, Boundsmiths and Stonewards.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

5 hours ago, mathiau said:

1st oath radiants survive a few minutes as CSs

There's a massive difference between hanging around a minute or two and being immortal.

2 hours ago, PleatherDuster said:

Did all the original Fused have tons of investiture when they died (the first time) and that how they stuck around?

I'd guess Odium stuck some Investiture into them before they had time to pass on.

2 hours ago, PleatherDuster said:

I don’t quite understand your comment about them not getting a “Heightening-like” boost? I sort of thought that they did (each time they say new oaths), but I might have misunderstood.

Yeah, as mathiau said, I mean actual Heightening-type effects, like increased color perception and such. And Brandon's mentioned most orders do not get the explosion of Light when they swear Ideals, Windrunners just get it due to their closeness to Bondsmiths (which I suspect really is just referring to Adhesion).

[apepi]

Galivar(and presumably the other kings?) are also turned into stone.