Scadrian vs. Rosharan magic post RoW

[Frustration]

27 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

I'm siding with the Mistborn for a number of reasons:

1. Bendalloy. While the Radiant simply can't make any real plans, the Mistborn can pause time whenever they want and carefully formulate a plan.
2. Pewter, though this one is more psychological. While I fully agree that the Radiant would be just as strong, if not stronger, they'd be used to a huge advantage over an opponent. Pewter would level the playing field at least somewhat, and the Radiant would have to adapt. Mistborn on the other hand, fight other Mistborn and Misting kill squads on a semi-regular basis. They know how to fight someone who matches their strength and agility.
3. Nicrosil. People have said that chromium would take a few seconds to wipe a Radiant's Stormlight reserves, but what about the opposite route? A massive burst of Stormlight followed by none at all will shock the Radiant much more than their Stormlight quickly being drained.
4. Electrum. I have seen this mentioned, I haven't seen it really discussed the way iron or pewter have. Being able to see what plans end in failure before completing them is a huge asset. (Clarification: I know that electrum only works a few seconds into the future. What I mean by this is being able to cancel an attack knowing that carrying through would have killed you.)
5. Steel. Pushing coins into the Radant's plate might not crack it, but it will chip away at their Stormlight. In addition, it allows for a range of mobility only outclassed by Windrunners and Skybreakers- and even then, the Radiant has to engage eventually. And concerning the Stoneward scenario mentioned earlier, the Mistborn could put their anchor on the ground the Stoneward is standing on. 
6. A Mistborn's fuel will last much longer than a Radiant's. Metals burn much slower than Stormlight leaves, and can be turned on and off at will. Comparing sixteen gemstones to sixteen metal vials, the Radiant would have to use a gemstone... maybe every minute or two. The Mistborn would only have to use a metal vial several minutes after the last one. Then there's the problem of Stormlight leaking faster when the Radiant is holding more, and being consumed whenever the Radiant experiences any bodily damage, no matter how minor, or whenever the plate cracks at all. Metal vials will last longer than Stormlight, unless the Mistborn acts like an idiot and wastes all the combat-useful metals in each one on duralumin the first chance they get. The Mistborn just has to outlast the Radiant, because the Radiant will run out of Stormlight and that will rob them of a major advantage.
7. Planning. As mentioned above, bendalloy allows the Mistborn time to carefully formulate plans mid-battle.The only plans a Radiant can use are those they brought in from before the battle started, which can quickly fall apart.
8. Ranged attacks. The only ranged attacks a Radiant can use require a somewhat significant use of Stormlight. A Mistborn's ability to Steelpush coins is comparatively much cheaper.

And I'm not even considering atium, because that usually lasts a minute or two, which is more than enough time with all the advantages I just mentioned. Even with near-invincible armor and an instant death sword, how do you fight someone who can clearly see both the immediate future and how that future affects them?

Even without atium, a Radiant can't outplan someone who can lay out specific plans whenever they want, outlast someone whose fuel lasts longer, or outthink someone who can literally see the how your strike affects them before you make it. I know about that one WoB that said that Vin could sometimes defeat 3rd ideal Kaladin, but she was missing several metals that would have given her a big advantage, and Kaladin is far from an average Windrunner.

Radiants can draw in stormlight instantly and carry tons of spheres in their cloths.

and just pushing coins against them will more likly launch the Mistborn back than crack plate.

On Stonewrads, again, the can take one step away, or just sink the coin, it isn't that hard.

[Enter a username]

30 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Radiants can draw in stormlight instantly and carry tons of spheres in their cloths.

That Stormlight runs out quicker if you're holding more, and too many gemstones just gets inconvenient.

32 minutes ago, Frustration said:

and just pushing coins against them will more likly launch the Mistborn back than crack plate.

A Mistborn can Push hard enough to crack plate while not being launched back if they brace themselves against a wall or Push another coin into a wall, or they could fling themselves back on purpose to avoid an attack.

35 minutes ago, Frustration said:

On Stonewrads, again, the can take one step away, or just sink the coin, it isn't that hard.

There must be some kind of limit to how far a Stoneward can extend their power, so the Mistborn can just Push on the coin while it's there to move just outside the range, or position themselves right above the Stoneward, stop Pushing, and use their body weight to let gravity drive a ridiculous amount of force behind a knife point. If the Stoneward tries to stab up, drop a coin at their feet to stop falling.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Enter a username said:

That Stormlight runs out quicker if you're holding more, and too many gemstones just gets inconvenient.

you don't need to hold that much at a time, and Kaladin had four separate stashes of gems on him without any side effects.

1 minute ago, Enter a username said:

A Mistborn can Push hard enough to crack plate while not being launched back if they brace themselves against a wall or Push another coin into a wall, or they could fling themselves back on purpose to avoid an attack.

I don't think they are pushing with three times the force of a bullet.

2 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

There must be some kind of limit to how far a Stoneward can extend their power, so the Mistborn can just Push on the coin while it's there to move just outside the range, or position themselves right above the Stoneward, stop Pushing, and use their body weight to let gravity drive a ridiculous amount of force behind a knife point. If the Stoneward tries to stab up, drop a coin at their feet to stop falling.

It doesn't have to be that far, just enough that in order to approach they have to do it from the ground, add in Support form other orders in large scale conflicts, or just auto sink any coins that land if solo.

[Enter a username]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

you don't need to hold that much at a time, and Kaladin had four separate stashes of gems on him without any side effects.

Still, a Mistborn can use chromium and nicrosil. I know about the limitation of them taking 2-3 seconds (for chromium, at least. I'm not sure about nicrosil), but the Mistborn doesn't need to drain it all at once. 

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I don't think they are pushing with three times the force of a bullet.

We've seen duelling Mistborn Push each other so hard they broke trees. It doesn't need to be hard enough to shatter the Plate in three hits or anything like that; it just needs to be enough to damage it, chipping away at the Radiant's Stormlight.

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

It doesn't have to be that far, just enough that in order to approach they have to do it from the ground, add in Support form other orders in large scale conflicts, or just auto sink any coins that land if solo.

And what happens if the Mistborn does nothing? Like I said, any Radiant's Stormlight will eventually run out. Even if they return the Stormlight to the gemstone, it's still leaking out, albeit at a slower pace. A clever Mistborn will delay as long as possible in this scenario to try to bleed the Stoneward dry of Stormlight, so the Stoneward will have to be the one to break the stalemate and attack. 

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Enter a username said:

Still, a Mistborn can use chromium and nicrosil. I know about the limitation of them taking 2-3 seconds (for chromium, at least. I'm not sure about nicrosil), but the Mistborn doesn't need to drain it all at once. 

Good luck touching them when they have a six+ foot long weapon aimed at severing your soul.

1 minute ago, Enter a username said:

We've seen duelling Mistborn Push each other so hard they broke trees. It doesn't need to be hard enough to shatter the Plate in three hits or anything like that; it just needs to be enough to damage it, chipping away at the Radiant's Stormlight.

There were two Mistborn, so they have about half that strength.

And Final Empire era trees were not exactly in pristine condition.

2 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

And what happens if the Mistborn does nothing? Like I said, any Radiant's Stormlight will eventually run out. Even if they return the Stormlight to the gemstone, it's still leaking out, albeit at a slower pace. A clever Mistborn will delay as long as possible in this scenario to try to bleed the Stoneward dry of Stormlight, so the Stoneward will have to be the one to break the stalemate and attack. 

Stormlight in spheres leeks in days not minuets, so unless you are imagining a really long battle that isn't going to be very effective, and on top of that perfect gemstones are a thing.

[Enter a username]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Good luck touching them when they have a six+ foot long weapon aimed at severing your soul.

Throw up a bendalloy bubble right in front of them, but not on top of them. Toss a few coins at their feet. Turn on chromium/nicrosil, pewter, and steel. Start sprinting at them. Drop the bubble right before you hit the border. Touch them and hit them with a dagger (or something similar) simultaneously. Push yourself upwards as hard and fast as possible. To the Radiant, this shouldn't even take a second. The only way to get Bladed is if you practically run into it.

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

There were two Mistborn, so they have about half that strength.

And Final Empire era trees were not exactly in pristine condition.

Still, birch trees (the trees in that scene) are some of the strongest in the real world, so I doubt that they were resisting like twigs.

12 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Stormlight in spheres leeks in days not minuets, so unless you are imagining a really long battle that isn't going to be very effective, and on top of that perfect gemstones are a thing.

Still, every moment a Mistborn delays has a tangible cost in Stormlight. And perfect gems are the exception, not the rule; I have a hard time seeing any Radiant carrying around dozens of the things. Adding to that, the King's Drop and Honor's Drop were the only ones seen in human posesion, and neither one is particularly accessible. (And if the King's Drop is any indicator, they aren't exactly convenient to carry around.)

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Enter a username said:

Throw up a bendalloy bubble right in front of them, but not on top of them. Toss a few coins at their feet. Turn on chromium/nicrosil, pewter, and steel. Start sprinting at them. Drop the bubble right before you hit the border. Touch them and hit them with a dagger (or something similar) simultaneously. Push yourself upwards as hard and fast as possible. To the Radiant, this shouldn't even take a second. The only way to get Bladed is if you practically run into it.

You're going to have to get that perfect, and get through plate, but I'll give you a decent chance at getting it if you pull it off.

2 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

Still, birch trees (the trees in that scene) are some of the strongest in the real world, so I doubt that they were resisting like twigs.

Every other plant is just about dead, everything is brown and wilted, I don't think it's going to fall over with a simple amount of force, but they will be significantly weaker than ours are.

4 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

Still, every moment a Mistborn delays has a tangible cost in Stormlight. And perfect gems are the exception, not the rule; I have a hard time seeing any Radiant carrying around dozens of the things. Adding to that, the King's Drop and Honor's Drop were the only ones seen in human posesion, and neither one is particularly accessible. (And if the King's Drop is any indicator, they aren't exactly convenient to carry around.)

Gavilar had a perfect gem that fit into a sphere, so they are obtainable in the sizes that are needed.

[Enter a username]

Just now, Frustration said:

You're going to have to get that perfect, and get through plate, but I'll give you a decent chance at getting it if you pull it off.

I wasn't saying "Break the Plate to leech the Stormlight," though I'm not complaining if that happens. I was suggesting leeching stormlight either through or from the Plate, depending on how chromium interact with live Plate.

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Every other plant is just about dead, everything is brown and wilted, I don't think it's going to fall over with a simple amount of force, but they will be significantly weaker than ours are.

Even a weakened tree will require enough force to match that required to put cracks in Plate. I'm not trying to break it in five or six hits, I'm trying to make it expend Stormlight repairing itself, even if the damage is

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Gavilar had a perfect gem that fit into a sphere, so they are obtainable in the sizes that are needed.

I highly doubt that that was a perfect gem. It was very good, and it leaked Light at a very, very slow pace, but it still leaked. And obtainable to Gavilar is far from the same thing as widely obtainable.

[therunner he/him]

1 hour ago, Enter a username said:

I'm siding with the Mistborn for a number of reasons:

1. Bendalloy. While the Radiant simply can't make any real plans, the Mistborn can pause time whenever they want and carefully formulate a plan.
2. Pewter, though this one is more psychological. While I fully agree that the Radiant would be just as strong, if not stronger, they'd be used to a huge advantage over an opponent. Pewter would level the playing field at least somewhat, and the Radiant would have to adapt. Mistborn on the other hand, fight other Mistborn and Misting kill squads on a semi-regular basis. They know how to fight someone who matches their strength and agility.
3. Nicrosil. People have said that chromium would take a few seconds to wipe a Radiant's Stormlight reserves, but what about the opposite route? A massive burst of Stormlight followed by none at all will shock the Radiant much more than their Stormlight quickly being drained.
4. Electrum. I have seen this mentioned, I haven't seen it really discussed the way iron or pewter have. Being able to see what plans end in failure before completing them is a huge asset. (Clarification: I know that electrum only works a few seconds into the future. What I mean by this is being able to cancel an attack knowing that carrying through would have killed you.)
5. Steel. Pushing coins into the Radant's plate might not crack it, but it will chip away at their Stormlight. In addition, it allows for a range of mobility only outclassed by Windrunners and Skybreakers- and even then, the Radiant has to engage eventually. And concerning the Stoneward scenario mentioned earlier, the Mistborn could put their anchor on the ground the Stoneward is standing on. 
6. A Mistborn's fuel will last much longer than a Radiant's. Metals burn much slower than Stormlight leaves, and can be turned on and off at will. Comparing sixteen gemstones to sixteen metal vials, the Radiant would have to use a gemstone... maybe every minute or two. The Mistborn would only have to use a metal vial several minutes after the last one. Then there's the problem of Stormlight leaking faster when the Radiant is holding more, and being consumed whenever the Radiant experiences any bodily damage, no matter how minor, or whenever the plate cracks at all. Metal vials will last longer than Stormlight, unless the Mistborn acts like an idiot and wastes all the combat-useful metals in each one on duralumin the first chance they get. The Mistborn just has to outlast the Radiant, because the Radiant will run out of Stormlight and that will rob them of a major advantage.
7. Planning. As mentioned above, bendalloy allows the Mistborn time to carefully formulate plans mid-battle.The only plans a Radiant can use are those they brought in from before the battle started, which can quickly fall apart.
8. Ranged attacks. The only ranged attacks a Radiant can use require a somewhat significant use of Stormlight. A Mistborn's ability to Steelpush coins is comparatively much cheaper.

And I'm not even considering atium, because that usually lasts a minute or two, which is more than enough time with all the advantages I just mentioned. Even with near-invincible armor and an instant death sword, how do you fight someone who can clearly see both the immediate future and how that future affects them?

Even without atium, a Radiant can't outplan someone who can lay out specific plans whenever they want, outlast someone whose fuel lasts longer, or outthink someone who can literally see the how your strike affects them before you make it. I know about that one WoB that said that Vin could sometimes defeat 3rd ideal Kaladin, but she was missing several metals that would have given her a big advantage, and Kaladin is far from an average Windrunner.

1. Good use of bendalloy, but their plans are still limited by ways they can deal damage through plate (so only duralumin pewter, duralumin steel, and nicrosil touch if they get lucky)
2. Warform singers are arguably stronger than pewter burning mistborn, I would assume Fused would be comparable if not better than that. Even just Regals like stormform are stronger than even Warform and Fused outrank those. So Radiants would have experience fighting foes that are stronger than human, and matches them. Shardplated Radiant would probably be stronger than these, but they would also be stronger than the mistborn.
3. The problem with using nicrosil/chromium on Radiant is that you would first have to get through shardplate to make contact with Radiant themselves. If you cannot touch them, you cannot nicroburst them or leech them.
4. Electrum will be a good asset for the mistborn, but mostly as defensive tool. Altough you could in principle use it before committing to attack, question is if the short window would be enough. Either way, a good asset.
5. Steel might chip at stormlight but I do not think it would be enough (see below for reasoning). With duralumin it might be different matter, but they would burn through their vials quickly then. I also think that in mobility outside of Skybreakers/Windrunner also Dustbringers/Edgedancers using abrasion could outmaneuver (or at least avoid hits from) Mistborn. Stonewards could probably easily make small domed building using cohesion and tension, protecting them from ranged attack of mistborn.
6. I do not think the lasting time of Radiants would be issue. Kal at 3rd oath flew for 12 hours as fast as he could just on spheres he could carry. With higher oaths comes greater efficiency of stormlight use, so on 4th oath the same amount could last 13 hours at least most likely longer (I would say around ~15hours). Even if in fight 4th oath Radiant would burn 12 times as fast it would still give them hour of fighting time without holding back. And since plate absorbs the stormlight that emanates from their skin, their efficiency is further increased. This is speculation, but since living plate is formed from living lesser spren, it might repair itself by attracting more of their kind, lessening amount of stormlight necessary for repair. Either way, 4th oath Radiant in plate could definitely fight for at least 30 minutes without holding  back at all. And before Radiant experiences bodily damage you need to get through plate first.
7. Mistborn are still limited by their capabilities, but the on the fly planning in bendalloy could help. (but I feel this is just point 1 reiterated)
8. True, steelpushes are cheaper investiture wise, but they are also more limited.

I think atium is the true mistborn trump card. To fully disable 4th oath Radiant, they need to first get through plate and then either remove all the stormlight (either through leeching or dealing enough damage), deal such devastating attack Radiant cannot recover (so destroy their head outright) or wound them with Aluminum and leave it in the wound. Outside of waiting them out, all of these require Mistborn to get up close and there Radiants have advantage (strength, reach, ~speed is on par, invested abilities).

And while Vin was missing some metals, those who have access to those metals do not have access to atium, so it should be either those metals or atium. Plus Kaladin did not have plate in those considerations either. And Vin is just as exceptional as Kaladin.

[Enter a username]

17 minutes ago, therunner said:

• The problem with using nicrosil/chromium on Radiant is that you would first have to get through shardplate to make contact with Radiant themselves. If you cannot touch them, you cannot nicroburst them or leech them.

Quote

FirstRyder

Could Aluminum be used to protect a Surgebinder from a larkin?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

havoc_mayhem

Would a larkin be able to steal Stormlight from a surgebinder wearing Shardplate? Any comments on whether Shardplate or aluminium would be more effective protection?

Brandon Sanderson

Getting through both would be relatively equal--with the problem being that Shardplate is powered by investiture, which the larkin could feed on. So aluminum is better in that specific case.

Stormlight Three Update #5 (Nov. 19, 2016)

I assume this would be the same with chromium.

23 minutes ago, therunner said:

• Mistborn are still limited by their capabilities, but the on the fly planning in bendalloy could help. (but I feel this is just point 1 reiterated)

To be honest, I... forgot some capabilities of bendalloy. (Notably, repositioning yourself to avoid incoming projectiles.)

18 minutes ago, therunner said:

True, steelpushes are cheaper investiture wise, but they are also more limited.

Steelpushes might be more limited, but they're arguably more powerful. (The only Surge that I think matches Steelpushing in ranged offensive capability is Transformation as Jasnah used it in Way of Kings, and that's almost certainly much harder to learn than "flare steel, push coin.")

[therunner he/him]

20 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

I assume this would be the same with chromium.

To be honest, I... forgot some capabilities of bendalloy. (Notably, repositioning yourself to avoid incoming projectiles.)

Steelpushes might be more limited, but they're arguably more powerful. (The only Surge that I think matches Steelpushing in ranged offensive capability is Transformation as Jasnah used it in Way of Kings, and that's almost certainly much harder to learn than "flare steel, push coin.")

I read that WoB saying that they would start leeching the plate first which would then suck in stormlight from Radiant. With deadplate that will definitely work as it seems to mindlessly draw in stormlight, living plate there Radiant might be able to consciously deny it, or dismiss it. But yeah, chromium would probably work better than I expected.

Ah, that explains the similarity in points 1 and 7. And yeah avoiding using bendalloy could be useful, but they would need to react fast enough.

I do not know, I think lashings might have higher upper limit, if you can apply enough lashings at once + you can lash much larger objects than you could push without burning your entire reserves. However at the ranges most of these fights would happen steelpushes are superior tools, especially when fighting human sized opponent.

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Enter a username said:

I wasn't saying "Break the Plate to leech the Stormlight," though I'm not complaining if that happens. I was suggesting leeching stormlight either through or from the Plate, depending on how chromium interact with live Plate.

I don't think you could leech live plate, blades are less invested and are basically untouchable.

1 hour ago, Enter a username said:

Even a weakened tree will require enough force to match that required to put cracks in Plate. I'm not trying to break it in five or six hits, I'm trying to make it expend Stormlight repairing itself, even if the damage is

You would have to hit with a considerable amount of force, equal to or above the force a headsized stone thrown by a warform.

1 hour ago, Enter a username said:

I highly doubt that that was a perfect gem. It was very good, and it leaked Light at a very, very slow pace, but it still leaked. And obtainable to Gavilar is far from the same thing as widely obtainable.

Six years, it was in a cave for six years, and Szeth did not notice any difference.

If Gavilar could do it a United Roshar could as well.

[Enter a username]

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I don't think you could leech live plate, blades are less invested and are basically untouchable.

See the post right above your own

8 minutes ago, Frustration said:

You would have to hit with a considerable amount of force, equal to or above the force a headsized stone thrown by a warform.

Pushed-on coins are known for going right through people's skulls, and Steelpushing has been seen stopping horses at a full gallop in their tracks. I think Steelpushing could do the trick.

16 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Six years, it was in a cave for six years, and Szeth did not notice any difference.

If Gavilar could do it a United Roshar could as well.

Rhythm of War, Chapter 16: 

Quote

"Practically flawless," Nem said, clamping the sphere in some small grips. "This wasn't grown in a gemheart, I can tell you that. The structure would never align so perfectly. This sphere is worth thousands, Brightness. It will probably hold Stormlight for months without leaking any out. Maybe years. Longer, for Voidlight."

Months, not eternity. Practically flawless, not perfect. And Voidlight lasts longer than Stormlight. Addressing your other point, a united Roshar could likely get tens of these, maybe around a hundred. Not enough for every Radiant to have their own personal stash. And if they deemed a Mistborn a threat worthy of using these near-perfect gemstones, would they really only send one Radiant?

[Bejarden he/him]

12 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

Months, not eternity. Practically flawless, not perfect. And Voidlight lasts longer than Stormlight. Addressing your other point, a united Roshar could likely get tens of these, maybe around a hundred. Not enough for every Radiant to have their own personal stash. And if they deemed a Mistborn a threat worthy of using these near-perfect gemstones, would they really only send one Radiant?

Well if you use the “there isn’t enough argument” then we can say there will be a max of like 6 Mistborns that 400 Radiants can take very easily 

Gemstones can be grown and we see a lot af perfect gems in Celebrant

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Well if you use the “there isn’t enough argument” then we can say there will be a max of like 6 Mistborns that 400 Radiants can take very easily 

Gemstones can be grown and we see a lot af perfect gems in Celebrant

*claps* 

oh my goodness that's amazing.

[The Technovore he/him]

This is not going to be a particularly well-articulated point, but I want to mention that while we understand Gravitation and Soulcasting pretty well, we don't know the full abilities of most of the surges. Case in point, Edgedancers use Abrasion and Progression, Progression being stupid powerful (Nale uses a Progression Fabrial to literally bring Szeth back from the dead) but not necessarily useful against a mistborn (I mean, besides the wonderful look on their face as they watch an Edgedancer slide in and undo all the work they did killing the Radiant). 

However, Edgedancers have a reputation for having mistborn-like agility and grace. They're described by historians, legends, and eyewitnesses as having incredible agility and dexterity in combat, even though their actual abilities don't seem to be particularly combat oriented. I think that there's a third ability each surgebinder has that's a combination of their two surges (like how Windrunners have a Reverse Lashing, which seems to be both Gravitation and Adhesion), that might contribute to this strange reputation Edgedancers have.

Personally I'd love to see an Edgedancer v Mistborn duel, it'd be the duel we deserve, but I think the Mistborn would be forced to flee, as everything they did to the Edgedancer would be healed, but the Edgedancer has the agility more than most to hit the Mistborn. 

Also note that we've seen little of Division but we know it dissolves molecular bonds and works on humans. I feel like a Mistborn facing a Skybreaker or Dustbringer filled with Stormlight would essentially just run. Because as soon as you touch that Radiant they touch you back and you lose. Curse you Newton's Third Law.

I do want to be fair though. The biggest and easiest way for a Radiant to lose a battle is to either lose before they draw stormlight in (surprise attack) or to run out of stormlight mid-fight (battle of attrition). Because stormlight's quick-burning is the Radiant's biggest weakness. I think if we're being honest a Mistborn can't do too much to an Oath 4 Radiant that's glowing from head to toe, but if you force them to run out of resources, you win, and to be honest a Mistborn is more than capable of the harassment and battery tactics required for that. 

In a Mistborn v Radiant duel, the question probably needs to be "How can the Radiant pin down and kill that Mistborn before they run out of light?" Some orders have easy answers to that question, other may have a more difficult time.

Edited March 25, 2021 by The Technovore

[Enter a username]

1 hour ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Well if you use the “there isn’t enough argument” then we can say there will be a max of like 6 Mistborns that 400 Radiants can take very easily 

Confusion

1 hour ago, Bejardin1250 said:

Gemstones can be grown and we see a lot af perfect gems in Celebrant

I highly doubt the Honorspren left in Lasting Integrity would be particularly willing to trade with humans.

[Frustration]

Just now, Enter a username said:

I highly doubt the Honorspren left in Lasting Integrity would be particularly willing to trade with humans.

I highly doubt that all of Scadrial would unite against Roshar.

[Enter a username]

Just now, Frustration said:

I highly doubt that all of Scadrial would unite against Roshar.

I never said that all of Scadrial was uniting against Roshar.

[Frustration]

Just now, Enter a username said:

I never said that all of Scadrial was uniting against Roshar.

well we have been. All of Roshar vs all of Scadrial.

[Enter a username]

Just now, Frustration said:

well we have been. All of Roshar vs all of Scadrial.

Since when? I thought we were talking about single Mistborn vs. single Radiant.

[Bejarden he/him]

4 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

Confusion

If you say that Roshar doesn’t have enough gemstones I can just as easily say there are no mistborns on Scadrial (or very very little) because both are equally true

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Enter a username said:

Since when? I thought we were talking about single Mistborn vs. single Radiant.

About everything after page 4

[Enter a username]

Just now, Frustration said:

About everything after page 4

Oh. I just started reading at around page 43.

[Frustration]

Just now, Enter a username said:

Oh. I just started reading at around page 43.

I don't blame you.