Kaladin's new potential ship

[+Oltux72 he/him]

1 hour ago, IndigoAjah said:

You know this is going to be what Sanderson writes now

I am the true reason Vorinism abhors predicting the future.

[agrabes]

I think the way RoW was written there is probably not going to be a romance arc for Kaladin in SA5.  With him appearing in the beginning of RoW having gotten interested in, dated, and been dumped by Lyn and having no romantic feelings for anyone I think it's just not in the cards.  Sanderson has decided not to go that way.  From his comments on Reddit and the general tone of RoW, Sanderson feels that Kaladin is not ready for a romantic relationship at this point in his life.  I think that's a reasonable and realistic decision, even if it isn't what I personally would have preferred. 

It also seems that I think Sanderson wants to de-emphasize romance from Kaladin's character.  Really, he's de-emphasizing all romance and personal relationships in favor of driving the plot along.  Someone posted this in the full book reaction thread, but I think it's spot on - Sanderson has painted himself into a corner by setting a rigid schedule for the events in his books.  In RoW, despite how long the book was it felt like there was no room for the characters to breathe.  It was just plot plot plot.  What was great about the earlier books was that each character really felt alive and was allowed to pursue things that weren't directly related to advancing the plot.  Kaladin's entire romance arc in WoR/OB was one of those things - something that totally made sense to arise from what happened but was not driving the plot forward.  In fact if anything, it had the potential to stall out key plot points (Kaladin breaking up the Adolin/Shallan engagement would have thrown off a lot of things had it actually happened).  Adolin's struggles with his desire to fit in with mainstream Alethi culture vs. having his father's approval and how he tries to relate to his friends at court, his random short lived romances in WoK, are good examples too.  Now, those kinds of things don't happen.  Adolin and Shallan have some decent scenes about their relationship, but those are primarily there to serve Shallan's mental health plot.  The new Hoid/Jasnah relationship exists but feels like a plot advancement convenience that came out of nowhere - now our heroes have a nice source of cosmere secrets.  There isn't time.  There are a limited number of pages left and we have to reach the end of the first major arc in SA5. 

I think it's OK to move away from spending time on stuff like this as the series moves on, I get that you can't just keep introducing new elements.  The main goal of the stormlight archive is to tell the story of the Knights Radiant and their battle against Odium.  We all want to see that story first and foremost.  I think what feels a little bad about Kaladin and his lack of romance is that it seems like the story is incomplete.  In WoR and OB, Kaladin wanted to meet someone to share his life with.  It didn't work out with Shallan, but he knew it was something he wanted still.  Now in RoW, he's not even interested in thinking about it.  I think maybe it would have felt better if there was a short scene where he talked with Syl about romance, maybe intentionally saying he was putting it on hold because of his failed relationship with Lyn.  Then it feels like a choice by Kaladin, rather than a Deus Ex Machina by Sanderson.

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by agrabes

[Wind_Breaker she/her]

On 13.12.2020 at 9:30 AM, Oltux72 said:

If that were the issue they could just live in Shadesmar.

Well, OK, anything can happen. Kaladin is going to marry Cultivation and their babies will be half dragons and fly around the valley. And Oroden will bond the Nightwatcher and become the third Bondsmith.

Since Kaladin IS, somehow, a son of Tanavast, that would make those two having some kind of bond somehow not that far-fetched and it would make this ship all the more gaaah. Damn. I checked what kind of Kaladin ships there are on ao3 once. I was wheezing. Kaladin/Cultivation is not yet on there. It might until book 10. I have trust in people's abilities to just smush characters who haven't asked for it together.

[Don't misunderstand my attitude; I did ship some crack in my life. Not in SA though]

I agree with @agrabes; Kaladin will probably not start any romance soon. He might far off in the future, but right now, he has too many demons to battle.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Wind_Breaker

[Honorless he/him]

On 12/14/2020 at 3:36 PM, Ramona Tehradin said:

That Tanavast reference won't get ignored by Cultivation nor she could resist our hot as storms Brightlord Brooding Stormblessed. I can see this happening and I totally ship it! Give us something unpredictable Brandon!

Imagine the horror in Wit's face after this happens. Todium would be ravaged by a brood of baby dragons. 

This ship has my blessings.

[Use the Falchion]

On 12/13/2020 at 2:30 AM, Oltux72 said:

If that were the issue they could just live in Shadesmar.

It's quite possible they will, especially if some of the theories I've heard about Kaladin's ultimate fate end up being true. But it's also possible that just like some of the humans we've seen in Shadesmar, we may get some spren who want to fully live in the Physical Realm in the future. 

 

On 12/13/2020 at 2:30 AM, Oltux72 said:

Well, OK, anything can happen. Kaladin is going to marry Cultivation and their babies will be half dragons and fly around the valley. And Oroden will bond the Nightwatcher and become the third Bondsmith.

Again, possible, so while you're trying to be sarcastic, I actually don't have a problem with this. Oroden would have to bond post-timeskip though, as he's too young to comprehend the words right now. The only squicky part about this is Kaladin marrying Cultivation. Not because I have a problem with the ship, but because Kaladin is explicitly called the "Son of Tanavast" by the Stormfather, which we've yet to fully decipher the meaning of. Add to that, given what we know of Tanavast and Slammer's previous relationship (and how Cultivation may feel about the Stormfather in some ways), it'd be kinda weird. But if we find out that there's no real connection between Tanavast and Kaladin, I'm game. 

 

Quote

WeiryWriter

What are Cultivation's feelings with regards to the Stormfather?

Brandon Sanderson

Cultivation's feelings... Cultivation is, *long pause* I just have to decide how I can say things that are not spoilers. Cultivation-- The Stormfather reminds her of certain things about someone else she knew, and she feels the same way about the Stormfather in some ways as this person that she knew.

 

[Obsidian_]

Hah, my first post on this site and its about a ship ^^

I think that the strongest possibility for Kaladin is Leshwi, that their mutual  respect and appreciation will grow into something more. 

I also really want a conversation between Leshwi and Syl considering that Syl might actually have known Leshwis Honorspren friend

[NameIess]

I'm shipping Rysn and Kaladin right now, even though they've never met.

[joesleepsalot he/him]

On 12/13/2020 at 2:04 AM, Ramona Tehradin said:

Kal won't get love in this arc guys, let just be happy and write our fanfics. I support that he doesn't need romance, he's well enough-- very well enough without it to be added. 

 

I 100% concur. As is Jasnah. Which is why I’m long-gaming those two lol. You know **** got real when you named your female cat jasnah, I need a make cat to name Kaladin 

[dannnex male]

6 hours ago, joesleepsalot said:

I 100% concur. As is Jasnah. Which is why I’m long-gaming those two lol. You know **** got real when you named your female cat jasnah, I need a make cat to name Kaladin 

Edit: misread your post, please disregard =P

Edited December 19, 2020 by Ookla the Disproportionate

[Sara Stormblessed]

On 12/14/2020 at 3:06 PM, agrabes said:

I think what feels a little bad about Kaladin and his lack of romance is that it seems like the story is incomplete.  In WoR and OB, Kaladin wanted to meet someone to share his life with.  It didn't work out with Shallan, but he knew it was something he wanted still.  Now in RoW, he's not even interested in thinking about it.  I think maybe it would have felt better if there was a short scene where he talked with Syl about romance, maybe intentionally saying he was putting it on hold because of his failed relationship with Lyn. 

Did Kaladin really "want to meet someone to share his life with" in so many words? Was he really hunting for a mate or just vaguely open to the idea?

I might be projecting, but I get the impression that Kaladin's romantic interest arises only after he gets to know said person platonically. Adolin saw beautiful women and decided to try each of them on until one fit. However, Kaladin is really not interested in starting romantic conversations with people he hardly knows, as we saw when he was in the wine house with Adolin and Shallan. A big part of me hopes that we don't see a romantic storyline from him for a long time. If we do, I think it will be a long, patient game, with someone he first befriends platonically.

It is a shame that people feel like lack of romance makes Kaladin's storyline incomplete. Do all stories have to end in death or marriage? Don't spinsters deserve some representation in literature? 

[yulyulk]

Kaladin's gonna fall in love with Szeth during their Shinovar trip 

 

(jk jk) (I think he will probably not have any on-screen romance with anyone)

[Sara Stormblessed]

16 minutes ago, yulyulk said:

Kaladin's gonna fall in love with Szeth during their Shinovar trip 

Hahaha. I wonder if we'll see some Szeth/Kaladin or Dalinar/Kaladin or Dalinar/Szeth/Kaladin sparing while Szeth and Dalinar train for their respective missions. Perfect time for Kaladin and Szeth to get to know each other. XD

[GameOfGroans]

4 hours ago, Sara Stormblessed said:

It is a shame that people feel like lack of romance makes Kaladin's storyline incomplete. Do all stories have to end in death or marriage? Don't spinsters deserve some representation in literature? 

Of course - but some of us enjoy reading about romance just for our own pleasure in identifying with it.

Most of the time Kaladin doesn't (seem to) think much about relationships - but Syl does repeatedly emphasize that he needs a companion and that being alone is not good for him. Keep in mind that most of what we've seen about him was when he was depressed, in various crises, blaming himself left and right, burdened by his father's disappointment in him (and what he presumed was many other people's disappointment). In such a state, few people would feel ready for a relationship, or believe they deserve to be happy, or that other people could be happy with them. It's pretty much only after this book that he might be actually ready. (I hope I won't have to wait 6 or 9 or 12 years to read about that, but it seems likely.)

[DramaQueen she/he/neopronouns]

I really don't know if this is the place to put this, but I mean...Lyn was mentioned a couple times...so sure. At some point during my SA reread before RoW, I thought, "Huh, Kalalyn would be a pretty dang cute ship if I finally agree to put Shalladin behind me..." So then when RoW started out by saying that Kaladin had been with Lyn and they broke up, I was a little mad. I may have mentally screamed "ONE OF MY SHIPS TEMPORARILY SAILED AND I DIDN'T GET TO SEE IT??????" multiple times.

[Szeth-son-son-Vallano he/him]

On 31/12/2020 at 3:40 AM, yulyulk said:

Kaladin's gonna fall in love with Szeth during their Shinovar trip 

You are wise.

I think I'm with OP though. I've always leaned hard on Sylladin and this was my first thought when Frankenstein's spren laboratory was uncovered. 

[agrabes]

On 12/30/2020 at 9:30 PM, Sara Stormblessed said:

Did Kaladin really "want to meet someone to share his life with" in so many words? Was he really hunting for a mate or just vaguely open to the idea?

I might be projecting, but I get the impression that Kaladin's romantic interest arises only after he gets to know said person platonically. Adolin saw beautiful women and decided to try each of them on until one fit. However, Kaladin is really not interested in starting romantic conversations with people he hardly knows, as we saw when he was in the wine house with Adolin and Shallan. A big part of me hopes that we don't see a romantic storyline from him for a long time. If we do, I think it will be a long, patient game, with someone he first befriends platonically.

It is a shame that people feel like lack of romance makes Kaladin's storyline incomplete. Do all stories have to end in death or marriage? Don't spinsters deserve some representation in literature? 

At least from my view, he did.  It was something he thought about in WoK, WoR, and OB.  He was really busy in WoK with essentially no opportunities to meet women, so it wasn't very prominent in WoK but it was still there.  Was he "hunting for a mate"?  No - he wasn't actively out there trying to find any woman who was willing to give him the time of day.  But he also wasn't just "vaguely open to the idea" such that he would ignore an opportunity with someone he was interested in.  His entire "ship" with Shallan came around that way - he got to know her and decided that it was worth it to him to try to pursue a relationship with her even though he knew it was inconvenient and could really screw things up if they actually did get together.  If he was just vaguely open to it, there's no chance he would have even considered anything with Shallan who was engaged to another man.

I don't think a lack of romance makes a character's story incomplete in general.  For example, Szeth is not engaged in or pursuing any romance and I don't think this makes his arc incomplete at all.  The same with many other important characters like Venli, Lopen, Teft, etc.  It's just that Kaladin has shown that romance is something he does (or did) want.  He's had a significant romance arc in the story.  So for his story to feel complete, he needs to make some progress on that one way or another.  To feel satisfying for me personally, we need to either see him pursue a relationship successfully on screen or convincingly decide that he needs to set aside romance or is just no longer interested in it.  At the end of OB, we get a very lame scene of him denying he ever had any feelings for Shallan, which (thankfully) there is now a WoB confirming that that was Kaladin lying to himself/in denial.  It can't be something like that at least for my tastes.  If he's putting aside romance, it needs to be thought out and represent his rational thinking - not just coming in the wake of a rejection.

[bmcclure7]

On 11/26/2020 at 7:07 AM, GameOfGroans said:

I feel Syl more like a sister to Kaladin than a lover, but if we are talking about human-spren romance, I ship Adolin and Maya 

 

I actually always got romantic vibes from the two of them.

[Llarimar he/him]

So I've been skeptical of Sylladin in the past, but aside from being more strongly suggested in this book than in any of the others (the amount of time they spend together, their shared mental trauma, the lack of other romantic prospects for Kaladin), I'm actually starting to think it might also make sense from a character development perspective for Syl.  Throughout all of RoW she's fascinated with humans and is constantly becoming more humanlike, which is part of an ongoing theme across this book that spren are more like humans than they would like to admit.  Syl is also terrified of Kaladin's death, and she's terrified of her own immortality as well (thoughts on mortality have been an ongoing theme for Syl since WoK, if I remember).  So it might make total sense if for Syl's character arc, she ended up essentially becoming human, becoming mortal, à la Arwen.  And in such a scenario, a romantic relationship with Kaladin makes a lot sense.  

This raises another question which I'm sure has been discussed elsewhere - can humans and spren reproduce?  My guess would be no, but I had the thought during this book that that might be the origin of the Horneater ability to see all spren - because somewhere in their genealogy, they have a human-spren ancestor.  And if humans and spren can't reproduce (again, I'm sure this has been addressed elsewhere), what about spren and spren?  I remember Syl saying something about being "created" by the Stormfather, but then Notum mentions in RoW that his father is a deadeye, which makes me wonder exactly how their parentage works.  

Edited January 16, 2021 by Llarimar

[Vissy]

I think Syladin would work just fine, if that is the way it goes! I currently see more potential in Kaladin and Leshwi, but Kaladin and Syl have been rattling around in my brain ever since the end of OB anyway so.

[Frustration]

5 minutes ago, Justin Henderson said:

It seems like there are a lot of comments that a relationship with Syl and Kaladin isn’t possible due to him being physical and her being a spren but doesn’t that ignore that the more the bond is formed the more possibilities it allows for? Also, what about the concepts behind type 1 entities? If spren are type 1 entities and the nahel bond is about mutual growth and much of the story arc is about growth, couldn’t Kaladin and Syl grow so much within the nahel bond that they no longer need it? Not that they break the bond, but they transcend it?

And not so much that this is pure romance but that they grow so much as individuals that they don’t “need” each other for growth or anything but that they choose to be together? A romance defined by growth and choice rather than raw emotions developing a more complete form of love than typically achieved? It would be an interesting way to allow for them to be together and make an interesting and more full implementation of a married couple. This also would have parity with the ending of the book the Nightmare Painter Brandon wrote.

The last post is from 2021.

[KaladinTheKingOfHeralds He/Him]

On 11/22/2020 at 6:10 AM, Friendshipspren said:

So I'm a kinda longterm fan of Sylladin. I mean those two are already soul mates and they are literally perfect for eachother.

I mean kal is the storming stereotype of a brooding male YA male interest or protagonist ,while syl is the idea of a Manic Pixie Dreamgirl come alive. 

YA romance authors would have hated Sanderson lol. 

But unfortunately there was A Fault in thier Realms and it seemed they were never meant to be but now .... with ishar . Hmmmmm .

Ishar , the mad lad, has made Sylladin possible again. 
So yeah.  Sylladin LIVES. 

I wonder how the Stormfather would react to that ? 

He would be the ultimate stereotype of a  father in law who hates and has a bumpy relationship with his son in law lol. 

 I wonder how Syl will cope with being human. 

Eating human food, growing hair , tasting something for the first time , pooping . Lol .

I really wanna see Syl become human and get hitched to kaladin and have immortal blue toned , wrong shadowed children with him. 

Just imagine those cuties going up to uncle Oroden . Awwwwww

So going more serious now , Honorspren  unlike almost every other sapiant Spren species , aside from inkspren , are the closest imitations of humans .

So as an aside ,  I was wondering if syl was pulled into the PR by ishar , would she have the inner physiological, esp reproductive anatomy compatible with humans ?Would kaladin be able to have children with her ?

If so what would they be like?

Then I realised that's the literal definition of Siah Aimians.

Half Spren , half human. 

Also Siah are shapeshifters tho they prefer a human form. Honorspren are exactly the same too. 

So we just may have precedent for this too. 

Honestly go to my gallery of Sylladin and we’ll be friends for life brother 

[Deception He/Him]

Syl has said some slightly dirty things to Kaladin a few times, and Maya has to Adolin, but that doesn't usually mean anything.