Gavinor Kholin

[Clarity-Art she/her]

I think that people have discussed this before, but I'm curious about where Gavinor Kholin's character will go in the future. Over on Reddit, there's been a lot of discussion about him growing up alongside Oroden, with them becoming good friends and striking up a bromance grand enough to rival Adolin and Kaladin's bromance. People have also proposed the idea of him becoming a Knight Radiant in the future, most likely because he's undergone serious trauma at such a young age. Thoughts? 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Clarity-Art

[psc92]

I'd like to see him be an important side character in the back 5.

[Eternal Khol he/him]

22 minutes ago, psc92 said:

I'd like to see him be an important side character in the back 5.

i think he will be. 

after the 10-15 in year gap between Book 5&6, he will be roughly 16-21 years old.

the perfect age for a new young hero in the back half of the series

Edited July 9, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Hen she/her]

6 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

i think he will be. 

after the 10-15 in year gap between Book 5&6, he will be roughly 16-21 years old.

the perfect age for a new young hero in the back half of the series

Yes! I’m hoping Gavinor, Oroden, and Shallan/Adolins kid (if that ends up working out) will be important or at least be friends. If not main characters then at least “side” characters, like Teft. Mostly I want to see the current main characters kids have a part in the story because that’s rare. 
 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Hentient

[Bearer of all agonies he/him]

Yes! It would be great if Gavinor, Oroden and Shallan and Adolin’s kids to be the main characters in books 6-10. 

[Darkfinder she/her]

3 minutes ago, Bearer of all agonies said:

Yes! It would be great if Gavinor, Oroden and Shallan and Adolin’s kids to be the main characters in books 6-10. 

I don't think any of them are going to be main characters but they will probably be side characters or appear occasionally in the back five.

Gavinor and Oroden will most likely appear at least once in books 4 and 5.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Darkfinder

[Karger he/him]

I am interested if he will be able to have a relationship with his aunt Jasnah and what that relationship will be like.

[thejopen27 he/him]

11 hours ago, Hentient said:

Yes! I’m hoping Gavinor, Oroden, and Shallan/Adolins kid (if that ends up working out) will be important or at least be friends. If not main characters then at least “side” characters, like Teft. Mostly I want to see the current main characters kids have a part in the story because that’s rare. 
 

God I hope they don't have a kid any time soon. Shallan is not in a good emotional place to have a kid. 

[Ciridae]

Oathbringer was crazy full with children. We got Oroden and Gavinor which I absolutely think will be friends. We met all of Rocks children, Sah’s daughter, Taravangians grandchildren were mentioned too. And Lift and Gawx are already pretty prominent characters. Those two especially I think will be important in the second half, but I think most children from OB will be relevant characters after the gap. 
If someone has read A Little Hatred by Abercrombie:

Spoiler

I could see it being similar where the next generation are the pov characters but still interact a lot with their parents. 

Obviously we already know the main povs for the back five, but I appreciate Brandon setting up other characters this early.

[Clarity-Art she/her]

12 hours ago, Ciridae said:

Oathbringer was crazy full with children. We got Oroden and Gavinor which I absolutely think will be friends. We met all of Rocks children, Sah’s daughter, Taravangians grandchildren were mentioned too. And Lift and Gawx are already pretty prominent characters. Those two especially I think will be important in the second half, but I think most children from OB will be relevant characters after the gap. 
If someone has read A Little Hatred by Abercrombie:

  Hide contents

I could see it being similar where the next generation are the pov characters but still interact a lot with their parents. 

Obviously we already know the main povs for the back five, but I appreciate Brandon setting up other characters this early.

I haven't read A Little Hatred yet, but I totally know what you're talking about. I blasted through the whole First Law trilogy a couple of months ago, and I have to say, Abercrombie knows his stuff. He's definitely earned the title of Lord Grimdark. 

On 7/9/2020 at 5:44 PM, Karger said:

I am interested if he will be able to have a relationship with his aunt Jasnah and what that relationship will be like.

Over on Reddit, I had a discussion with some people about how Gavinor will most likely be the heir to the Alethi throne, considering Jasnah's desire to avoid marriage. Jasnah is obviously not a touchy-feely, motherly type, but I could see her empathizing with Gavinor and being a strict yet understanding parental figure. From what we know, Jasnah underwent some trauma when she was still young, and that most likely led Ivory to form the Nahel bond with her. Gavinor seems to be on a similar course, as of Oathbringer, though we won't know for sure until Brandon shows us his path in greater detail. 

[USS bridge four he/him]

I kinda hope that Gavinor is taken care of by Bridge Four. Now that I think about I kinda just want a Bridge Four sitcom. 

[ConfusedCow]

He will always be a threat to Jasnah's rule. Jasnah did consider killing her Cousin and Sister in law but she wouldnt. Right?

[GriffinMaze]

3 hours ago, ConfusedCow said:

He will always be a threat to Jasnah's rule. Jasnah did consider killing her Cousin and Sister in law but she wouldnt. Right?

This isn't A Song of Ice and Fire. Jasnah doesn't have to worry about Gavinor being a usurper invoking the "birthright" clause  

[Isilel]

4 hours ago, ConfusedCow said:

He will always be a threat to Jasnah's rule. Jasnah did consider killing her Cousin and Sister in law but she wouldnt.

No. They don't have a tradition of child rulers and it is actually beneficial to her to have a ready-made heir, so that she won't be pestered about marriage as much. It would have been far more problematic if Dalinar took the throne or Adolin did and later had children of his own. This would have really muddled the succession, but with Queen Jasnah, it is very clear. Assuming that something like that will even remain important.

[Pathfinder]

8 hours ago, ConfusedCow said:

He will always be a threat to Jasnah's rule. Jasnah did consider killing her Cousin and Sister in law but she wouldnt. Right?

For the reasons mentioned as well as a few more we have confirmation on:

 

1. Jasnah is very protective of her family. Gavinor is included in that. We saw how hard it was for her to even consider renarin and in the end despite all the research, time, and evidence pointing to renarin being the cause of the betrayal, jasnah still couldnt do it

 

2. Jasnah is not power hungry. We have a WoB that part of the reason she left kholinar/stayed away from the shattered plains was to give elhokar space to rule. So he wouldn't feel overshadowed by her. That he had enough problems ruling in his father's shadow,  he didnt need to live under hers as well. Though if her research in saving the world requires her to return, she would have. 

 

3. Jasnah's thoughts on assassinating aesudean (which she did not carry out as she focused on attaining more information first), was due to her believing aesudan was going to harm her family. There is a WoB on that too. I can add them later if you like. Also consider that jasnah was in fact right about aesudan and had jasnah actually had her killed when she originally considered, kholinar might not have become the way it did. So many guards would not have been corrupted and or killed, and the common people of kholinar would probably have been better off. 

 

4. Gavinor is already heir apparent and jasnah is already queen is full. Not just a regent. So there would be no need to mess with any of that. Gavinors existence does not negate jasnahs queenhood, nor does her queenhood prevent his ultimate kinghood

 

As a follow up, have you considered reading and commenting on my jasnah thread? I got all the quotes regarding her across all three books, so if you wanted to provide commentary on your views on jasnah, i thought that would be a great place to do it. Allowing for easy references.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Pathfinder

[thejopen27 he/him]

14 hours ago, ConfusedCow said:

He will always be a threat to Jasnah's rule. Jasnah did consider killing her Cousin and Sister in law but she wouldnt. Right?

I think the understanding is that she is essentially queen regent and Gavinor is the heir. The heir is always a threat to the ruler, yet the ruler always needs the heir.

[ConfusedCow]

I don't think Jasnah will kill Gavinor.  I do think she will have to be careful though.  Jasnah will have lots of enemies, the devotaries, the high princes, the ghostbloods, just for a start.  Gavinor will be a tempting tool that could be used to supplant her.  Their plots will be dangerous to Gavinor and Jasnah both.  Gavinor has to be kept close, pampered and protected but also watched and subtly hidden.  

[+Child of Hodor]

On 7/12/2020 at 1:38 PM, thejopen27 said:

I think the understanding is that she is essentially queen regent and Gavinor is the heir. The heir is always a threat to the ruler, yet the ruler always needs the heir.

It’s not clear. She was made Queen when they thought Gavinor was dead, Kaladin hadn’t found the bridge 4 survivors yet and the survivors did not mention having Gavinor over spanreed because they were afraid it would make them targets. 

Now that they know he’s alive I assume she will be Queen regent. I don’t think it will be an issue. Jasnah may enjoy being able to boss more people around, but I dont think she really wants to be Queen forever. She likes traveling the world doing research plus she is a radiant and there will be some world threatening crisis that will require her direct attention. 

[Pathfinder]

26 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

It’s not clear. She was made Queen when they thought Gavinor was dead, Kaladin hadn’t found the bridge 4 survivors yet and the survivors did not mention having Gavinor over spanreed because they were afraid it would make them targets. 

Now that they know he’s alive I assume she will be Queen regent. I don’t think it will be an issue. Jasnah may enjoy being able to boss more people around, but I dont think she really wants to be Queen forever. She likes traveling the world doing research plus she is a radiant and there will be some world threatening crisis that will require her direct attention. 

Point of clarity, you have the incorrect order.  Actual order is:

1. Kaladin finds bridgemen with gavinor

2. Dalinar tells adolin to become king with gavinor as heir (gavinor is specifically mentioned. Will add quote below)

3. Adolin refuses

4. Jasnah named queen. 

 

So they did know gavinor was still alive when she was named queen. It is not a regency. Jasnah is fully queen, ruling with gavinor as her heir. She isn't just holding the position for when he comes of age. She is legitimately queen

 

 

Oathbringer page 1220

 

The Blackthorn shook his head, then looked to Shallan and Adolin. “Either way, Alethkar needs a king. More so now than ever.” “The heir—” Adolin began. “Too young. This isn’t the time for a regency. Gavinor can be named your heir, Adolin, but we must see you two married and the monarchy secured. For the good of Alethkar, but also the world.”

 

 

Edit: before its mentioned that that means jasnah needs to then be married, that is not the case. The reason it was mentioned regarding adolin and shallan is it would call into question adolin if he maintained a causal for too long. People would start asking questions. What problems are there? Whats holding them back? Etc. Since jasnah is not with anyone to begin with and is already notorious for being single, it wouldnt be a embarrassment or controversy if she remained single

 

Edit 2: posted from phone so apologies in advance due potential formatting issues or perceived terseness

 

Edit 3: including definition of the difference between queen and queen regent as i feel it is pertinent and is an important distinction 

 

A queen regnant (plural: queens regnant) is a female monarch, equivalent in rank to a king, who reigns in her own right, as opposed to a queen consort, who is the wife of a reigning king, or a queen regent, who is the guardian of a child monarch and reigns temporarily in the child's stead.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Pathfinder

[thejopen27 he/him]

12 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

It’s not clear. She was made Queen when they thought Gavinor was dead, Kaladin hadn’t found the bridge 4 survivors yet and the survivors did not mention having Gavinor over spanreed because they were afraid it would make them targets. 

Now that they know he’s alive I assume she will be Queen regent. I don’t think it will be an issue. Jasnah may enjoy being able to boss more people around, but I dont think she really wants to be Queen forever. She likes traveling the world doing research plus she is a radiant and there will be some world threatening crisis that will require her direct attention. 

I assume they will sort this out in a sentence in the first act of RoW

[The One Ring she/her]

 I don't think Jasnah will be queen for long. She would never have taken the throne if not for the fact that no one wants to be king.(she had the chance of becoming queen when her father died, but she didn't take it) She'll likely step down once someone else is ready.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Evi

[Hen she/her]

2 hours ago, Evi said:

 I don't think Jasnah will be queen for long. She would never have taken the throne if not for the fact that no one wants to be king.(she had the chance of becoming queen when her father died, but she didn't take it) She'll likely step down once someone else is ready.

I hope she stays Queen for consistency sake. Of course I’d love to see Queen Jasnah killing it. But I’m also scared that if Brandon goes back on too many things, like her being Queen or Shallan and Adolins marriage, anything that happens in the future will lose credibility. Similar to when too many characters come back from the dead.