Why Radiants are incredibly overpowered, and Mistborn aren't.

[Frustration he/him]

42 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

Ever heard of "metal vials?"

I meant no new ones

34 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Maintaining Plate most likely does require Stormlight though. And what you are suggesting would be an easily exploitable pattern. Also a fast moving small coin would not be easy for a Radiant to see or track, so they could very well could be hit before they knew what was even happening. 

In fact Radiants so far have only done prolong fights when there has been an abundance of Stormlight available. The castle lights for Szeth, the gems in Parshendi beards at the end of WoK, The Battle of Thaylen Field for everyone. Most scenes where they address how much Stormlight is available have them use it up in a matter of minutes

Any strategy is exploitable, please explain how a Mistborn manages to stay ahead for long enough that a Radiant has no Stormlight?

[StanLemon]

7 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I meant no new ones

Radiant will likely run out of Stormlight before the Mistborn runs out of metals

Quote

Any strategy is exploitable, please explain how a Mistborn manages to stay ahead for long enough that a Radiant has no Stormlight?

Unless they are facing a Skybreaker or Windrunner, it wouldn't be that difficult using Pushes and Pulls. Those are the only two Orders that really can invalidate that strategy.

Edit: They are the only two Orders with mobility that can match a Mistborn as they are the only ones that allow three dimensional movement. Unless a Lightweaver Or Elsecaller is willing to burn the Stormlight necessary to create steps in the sky.

Edited July 14, 2020 by StanLemon

[Frustration he/him]

Just now, StanLemon said:

Radiant will likely run out of Stormlight before the Mistborn runs out of metals

Unless they are facing a Skybreaker or Windrunner, it wouldn't be that difficult using Pushes and Pulls. Those are the only two Orders that really can invalidate that strategy.

And the Mistborn has to constantly use metal to use your second point which invalidates your first. While even static plate is still an almost impenetrable sheild.

[StanLemon]

3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

And the Mistborn has to constantly use metal to use your second point which invalidates your first. While even static plate is still an almost impenetrable sheild.

Burning metals is more efficient than using Stormlight. Pewter was able to last several minutes while flaired and it is the fastest burning of the basic eight.

Static Plate is nearly impossible to move in, stabbing through the eye slits would be easy

Edited July 14, 2020 by StanLemon

[Frustration he/him]

Just now, StanLemon said:

Burning metals is more efficient than using Stormlight. Pewter was able to last several metals while flaired and it is the fastest burning of the basic eight.

And? Stormlight use at level 5 should be on par with that.

1 minute ago, StanLemon said:

Static Plate is nearly impossible to move in, stabbing through the eye slits would be easy

All you have to do is block coin attacks, if they come for the eyes all you have to do is draw Stormlight, and then a Shardblade goes through their spine and it's game over.

[Enter a username he/him]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

All you have to do is block coin attacks, if they come for the eyes all you have to do is draw Stormlight, and then a Shardblade goes through their spine and it's game over.

How?

[Frustration he/him]

1 minute ago, Enter a username said:

How?

Summon plate when a coin is coming, if the Mistborn charges draw Stormlight. Just like you would for regular plate. Assuming live plate needs Stormlight, which I doubt as live blades don't need gems.

[Enter a username he/him]

9 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Static Plate is nearly impossible to move in, stabbing through the eye slits would be easy

This is referring to Plate without stormlight.

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

It has been said in legends that the Voidbringers of old could hold Stormlight perfectly.  We know humans were the OG Voidbringers,  what if that's a 5 Oath benefit? 

We have clues that live plate can be summoned and dismissed like the blades. If plate does indeed require Stormlight then summon when needed and preserve Stormlight. Risky  but potentially necessary in a prolonged fight. 

We know it's possible for a Radiant to regulate Stormlight intake.  In a Stormlight conservation move they may only partially heal an injury to put more power into their surgebinding.  Or they may take in small sips of Stormlight IOT conceal their burn. 

I believe playing keep away and hide and seek is the only viable strategy for a Mistborn facing a Radiant.  But with each Oath spoken that task gets harder by a great degree. And while I think the Mistborn can outlast a Radiant it's gonna be a close run thing,  closer and closer as the Radiant reaches the pinnacle of their power.  

 

 

[Enter a username he/him]

Yes, but if duralumin and electrum does the same thing as duralumin and atium (what actually happened when that was done, though?), it should be considerably easier.

[trav]

with background knowledge for each I believe even the oaths to be exploitable for an allomancer.

push and pull on the right emotions and make the Radiants doubt their ideals.

this would required vast knowledge of the magic system and also some kind of leverage, like an uncomfortable truth etc.

its just a thought, since oaths are based so much in perception.

 

for the mentally instable Kaladin this could be fairly easy, I assume.

[Gisaku75]

11 hours ago, Frustration said:

Because it wouldn't have enough power. Todds workshop has a video arrows vs armor medieval mythbusting, and they're shooting 160 pound bows into regular plate from oh, like five feet if I recall correctly. And it barely dent's it, that's in the ballpark for what your average mistborn will weigh. In normal plate, it doesn't get through. No way in the world it cracks shardplate. And if you think that Plate isn't designed to redirect projectiles you haven't looked into it very much, for starters it's rounded and the coin wll want to roll along that, and additionally the Radiant can stumble back which also causes a blow to lose effectiveness.

1. We have no idea how many vials of metal Vin went through
2. Kaladin is 2nd Ideal

In that video 6 arrows are shot, from the most favorable angle for the armor. 2 of these dent the armor. If he had shoot from a favorable angle the blows would have damaged the armor. a Mistborn can hit with a dozen coins at a time with the same force. It is enough that one in 12 hits the right way and opens one small crack at a time. The shardplate is NOT much more resistant than normal armor otherwise stones, hammers, and spears would not damage it, as it happens. The sum of small cracks can lead to the breakdown and loss of Stormlight. In a protracted confrontation the Mistborn has an advantage because its reserves run out much more slowly.
Chapter 52, well of ascension, Vin says that 2 vials are enough to push and pull for HOURS. And before that she filled her stomach with enough pewter to run half a day. When have you ever seen Kaladin fight for the same time without a constant supply of Stormlight from an external source?
There are orders that couldn't get the better of a Mistborn with or without Atium, because they don't fly and don't have ranged attacks. At best, they could escape or stall if they get defensive.

in that experiment the arrow is fired from a distance of 25 meters and hits at a speed of 52.1 m / s (187 km per hour). Vim with steel can fly at a speed equal to that of a galloping horse, 80 km per hour. Do you think a coin that weighs a fraction of Vin travels only twice its speed? You only need to travel three times to outclass the power of the bow.

[Enter a username he/him]

And once you bring duralumin to the playing field...

[Sirscott13 he/him]

I want to comment and say that knights radiant are also locally bound to Roshar, or at least the Spren are. Mistborn are able to travel the Cosmere. 
 

Also while Mistborn might be outclasssed, Fullborn blow even a Radiant wielding an honorblade of a different order out of the water. Compounded health, speed, strength, etc. gives a ridiculous advantage. 
 

In general the Radiants serve as specialized paladins while Mistborn are Rogue assassin types. They aren’t meant to fight head to head really. 
 

An interesting thought on the Mistborn match up though is that I’m curious what a Duralumin enhanced Riot/Soothe would do to the Radiants. Are they more susceptible due to their nature? Imagine an enhanced riot of doom or soothe of joy on Kaladin. 

[Enter a username he/him]

Does Kaladin even have joy anymore?

[Sirscott13 he/him]

2 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

Does Kaladin even have joy anymore?

Touché 

[Frustration he/him]

7 hours ago, Gisaku75 said:

In that video 6 arrows are shot, from the most favorable angle for the armor. 2 of these dent the armor. If he had shoot from a favorable angle the blows would have damaged the armor. a Mistborn can hit with a dozen coins at a time with the same force. It is enough that one in 12 hits the right way and opens one small crack at a time. The shardplate is NOT much more resistant than normal armor otherwise stones, hammers, and spears would not damage it, as it happens. The sum of small cracks can lead to the breakdown and loss of Stormlight. In a protracted confrontation the Mistborn has an advantage because its reserves run out much more slowly.
Chapter 52, well of ascension, Vin says that 2 vials are enough to push and pull for HOURS. And before that she filled her stomach with enough pewter to run half a day. When have you ever seen Kaladin fight for the same time without a constant supply of Stormlight from an external source?
There are orders that couldn't get the better of a Mistborn with or without Atium, because they don't fly and don't have ranged attacks. At best, they could escape or stall if they get defensive.

in that experiment the arrow is fired from a distance of 25 meters and hits at a speed of 52.1 m / s (187 km per hour). Vim with steel can fly at a speed equal to that of a galloping horse, 80 km per hour. Do you think a coin that weighs a fraction of Vin travels only twice its speed? You only need to travel three times to outclass the power of the bow.

Two problems with that.

1. Shardplate is often talked about as much better than regular plate.

2. The horses of Mistborn era 1's time would be closer to the older and slower horses of the past not the speed demons we have today, and on top of that Era 1 Scandrial was really low oxygen, further limiting the maximum size and speed of a horse.

[Enter a username he/him]

If the Mistborn had Stick with them, they'd win easily.

[Frustration he/him]

59 minutes ago, Sirscott13 said:

I want to comment and say that knights radiant are also locally bound to Roshar, or at least the Spren are. Mistborn are able to travel the Cosmere. 

It's possible to leave

59 minutes ago, Sirscott13 said:

Also while Mistborn might be outclasssed, Fullborn blow even a Radiant wielding an honorblade of a different order out of the water. Compounded health, speed, strength, etc. gives a ridiculous advantage. 

Again, one magic system only.

42 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

If the Mistborn had Stick with them, they'd win easily.

*Dies of laughter while saluting because that is actually a good stick joke*

Against Shallan!

 

[Nuatoma]

I keep seeing people complain here that we are only comparing one magic system to another.  I've always been under the impression that surgebinding is a combination of two magic systems (Honor + Cultivation)

From the Coppermind:

Quote

 

Surgebinding is a magic system derived from both Cultivation and Honor.^[3] To Surgebind, a person must bond a spren, which grants them the ability to inhale Stormlight and use it for various purposes, chief among them self-healing and manipulating Surges, the fundamental forces of Roshar.^[14] Some Surges are more inclined towards Cultivation, while others are closer to Honor. Additionally, some of the Radiant spren appear to be closer to Cultivation than others.^[15]

The spren capable of forming the Radiant bonds are likewise a mix of Cultivation and Honor's Investitures; as such, a Shardblade is a mix of her and his metals.^[16]

 

[Frustration he/him]

1 minute ago, Nuatoma said:

I keep seeing people complain here that we are only comparing one magic system to another.  I've always been under the impression that surgebinding is a combination of two magic systems (Honor + Cultivation)

From the Coppermind:

 

That would make Feruchemy two magic systems, it's only one, just two shards.

[Enter a username he/him]

Speaking of which, a Feruchemist would win easily against a Radiant. They'd only need a full steelmind and something sharp. 

[Frustration he/him]

3 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

Speaking of which, a Feruchemist would win easily against a Radiant. They'd only need a full steelmind and something sharp. 

A Feruchemists I agree would be a good match up, but not easily. You still have to sit in your basement for a week being sick, slow, and weak. But yeah with preparation a Feruchemists is almost invincible.

[Enter a username he/him]

Random question that just popped into my head- can a nicrosilmind store Investiture that's being forced onto you (like a shardblade)? If so, fill it with Shardblade whenever you're about to be hit. If not, a Full Feruchemist will probably have metalminds for all metals, including aluminum. 

[+Bzhydack he/him]

46 minutes ago, Enter a username said:

Random question that just popped into my head- can a nicrosilmind store Investiture that's being forced onto you (like a shardblade)? If so, fill it with Shardblade whenever you're about to be hit. If not, a Full Feruchemist will probably have metalminds for all metals, including aluminum. 

No, I think. Nicrosilmind can store your own Investiture, with your Connection and Identity. Even if Ferruchemist will remove his identity, Shardblade is Connected to the Radiant, and has his Identity. But can be possible I think to easly Bond Spren by tapping Duraluminmind.

If we will give Ferruchemist an Aluminum weapon, maybe Sword, he will win easly.