Potential Uses Of Abrasion

[Shard of Reading he/him]

So, I just want to say that I expect this to be shot down in about 0.24 seconds by a WoB.

So, I was thinking about how you always see people removing friction from things with abrasion, and I thought that was kind of weird. Abrasion is the surge of FRICTION right? So, you should be able to also add friction to objects, right?
I think that it would explain how edgedancers were able to "Dance across the thinest of ropes" (Or something like that. I can't remember the exact quote.) Because they would add friction, so they would not slip off.

You could also use it to climb up almost sheer vertical surfaces because you would not be afraid of sliding down.

Now, I don't think that is likely because we have not seen lift to it, but if it was possible it would be really cool.

[Karger he/him]

10 minutes ago, Shard of Reading said:

I think that it would explain how edgedancers were able to "Dance across the thinest of ropes" (Or something like that. I can't remember the exact quote.) Because they would add friction, so they would not slip off.

Lift does seem unusually capable at climbing even without Wyndle assisting her.  We also have limited WoBs on Edgedancers or their surges.  Also interestingly friction is a method of making heat.  Dustbringers have access. 

[Eluvianii he/him]

Now that you mention it, I always thought they could move over ropes by removing their friction, which would probably work with the thickest ones, but the thinnest ones would turn into knives, so yeah, adding friction sounds more useful for those situations.

[Honorless he/him]

Abrasion is the Surge of friction so it should work both ways: for lessening and increasing friction. We haven't seen Lift do it consciously, I think. She's only started to get "slicking" down (and used Progression twice: to grow a plant and in the form of Regrowth to heal Gawx). Assuming not all of "climbing the smoothest wall" was done using her ability to be partially in the Cognitive & touch spren, she might've used this aspect as well (but I mostly remember her using Wyndle's vines)

The ancient Edgedancers' abilities do seem to corroborate, as others pointed out, that Edgedancers could increase friction.

Friction produces heat and can cause combustion, which is the Dustbringers' forté. So, it could be that the Edgedancers were less skilled with the other side of the Surge, perhaps. And Dustbringers might've had a Resonance between their two Surges of Division & Abrasion, which led to their famed abilities of destruction.

Edited June 12, 2020 by R J
typo

[Shard of Reading he/him]

Yay! It appears I was right!

[Aminar]

Yep. There's a lot of cool stuff you can do with fiction as an idea. Increase the fiction of the air Kaladin is falling through and you get something a mix of horrific and awe inspiring. Reduce it and suddenly there is no terminal velocity. 

[Cammac]

For a dustbringer I think lightning/electricity can be a possibility. Using abrasion to create friction in the air, creating an electric charge or increasing the friction in their body to create a static electric charge.

If they increase the friction of water or themselves enough, could they walk on water?

[Aminar]

4 hours ago, Cammac said:

For a dustbringer I think lightning/electricity can be a possibility. Using abrasion to create friction in the air, creating an electric charge or increasing the friction in their body to create a static electric charge.

If they increase the friction of water or themselves enough, could they walk on water?

Pretty sure they could run on air with enough stormlight. 

[Honorless he/him]

4 hours ago, Cammac said:

For a dustbringer I think lightning/electricity can be a possibility. Using abrasion to create friction in the air, creating an electric charge or increasing the friction in their body to create a static electric charge.

If they increase the friction of water or themselves enough, could they walk on water?

I think so! 

 

[Philomath she/her]

I’ve definitely thought that Abrasion should allow for increased friction though it hasn’t yet been seen in the books. And your thought of that being how they actually go across the thinnest of wires/ropes is excellent. I imagine some instances of increased friction might look similar to some uses of Adhesion. (Considering Kaladin’s use of Adhesion to climb chasm walls.) But the fundamental science/mechanisms of how they work is different. 
 

I’m not sure how many surges we can look at yet to see if you can affect things in multiple ways. But Gravitation is one we can look at. Though it is all referred to as lashings, they are technically used to increase or decrease gravitational pull in a given direction. It may just depend on what fundamental force each surge represents. 

[Aminar]

2 minutes ago, Philomath said:

I’ve definitely thought that Abrasion should allow for increased friction though it hasn’t yet been seen in the books. And your thought of that being how they actually go across the thinnest of wires/ropes is excellent. I imagine some instances of increased friction might look similar to some uses of Adhesion. (Considering Kaladin’s use of Adhesion to climb chasm walls.) But the fundamental science/mechanisms of how they work is different. 
 

I’m not sure how many surges we can look at yet to see if you can affect things in multiple ways. But Gravitation is one we can look at. Though it is all referred to as lashings, they are technically used to increase or decrease gravitational pull in a given direction. It may just depend on what fundamental force each surge represents. 

It likely depends. But Gravity doesn't really decrease. It just can pull in multiple directions at different intensities. It's still all a pull. I foubt we'll see growth/regrowth as decay. But it seems very likely that friction, and possibly strong and weak force are more malleable. 

[Philomath she/her]

2 minutes ago, Aminar said:

It likely depends. But Gravity doesn't really decrease. It just can pull in multiple directions at different intensities. It's still all a pull. I foubt we'll see growth/regrowth as decay. But it seems very likely that friction, and possibly strong and weak force are more malleable. 

Yeah that was my biggest problem with using gravity as an example. But you could argue that the combinations of lashings have the effect of an increase or decrease from the perspective of whatever the object is. I’m sort of picturing the force diagrams from my physics classes from long ago. 

[theTruthshaper]

But you can't use Abrasion to climb walls, if you don't have a force towards the wall. The way friction works is that there is a force opposing relative motion between two surfaces which maxes out at a value. This value depends upon normal force between two objects. On a straight wall, you can't apply any such force because it will simply throw you of the wall.

[Aminar]

10 hours ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

But you can't use Abrasion to climb walls, if you don't have a force towards the wall. The way friction works is that there is a force opposing relative motion between two surfaces which maxes out at a value. This value depends upon normal force between two objects. On a straight wall, you can't apply any such force because it will simply throw you of the wall.

Depends how velcro'd the friction gets. It would require practice and athleticism, but increasing the friction could make it doable. I still think with enough friction you could basically make steps in the air. Might be a surface tension thing though and those don't mix. 

[Shard of Reading he/him]

11 hours ago, The_Truthwatcher said:

But you can't use Abrasion to climb walls, if you don't have a force towards the wall. The way friction works is that there is a force opposing relative motion between two surfaces which maxes out at a value. This value depends upon normal force between two objects. On a straight wall, you can't apply any such force because it will simply throw you of the wall.

If there was a slight incline, you could climb up much steeper surfaces than should be possible.

[theTruthshaper]

7 hours ago, Shard of Reading said:

If there was a slight incline, you could climb up much steeper surfaces than should be possible.

Yes, this would work.