Long Game 66: A Struggle for Power

[Ookla-son-son-Ventyl]

@Ashbringer, I know for a fact I put in the action to roleblock Emi. I’m literally looking at the message Young Bard sent me saying I did! They only explanations for why you don’t believe this are:

1. You yourself are an elim and you’re trying to get a mislynch onto me by lying about Emi being roleblocked.

2. Emi is an elim and is lying to you about being roleblocked.

3. Both you and Emi are elims and are trying to get a mislynch onto me.

In scenario one Ash is elim and Emi is village. In scenario two Emi is an elim and Ash is village. In scenario both Ash and Emi are elims. I don’t know why this doesn’t seem suspicious to anyone else. Can anyone explain to me why I would lie to multiple people about my role to risk being lynched if I was an elim? Also, is it not possible that when I roleblocked Emi, they simply didn’t take an action? Can @StrikerEZ please confirm that if someone is roleblocked but they don’t take an action that it doesn’t tell them they were roleblock. 

Oh wait... I just figured this whole situation out...

Ash has claimed Pulser to me in PMs...

I want everyone to think about what that means...

If you really want to lynch me, wait until Day 4 when if I was pulsed it will show up for Emi during this night turn, I think. If I was pulsed by Ashbringer, then I’m pretty certain that they’re an elim. It could also explain why Araris was killed, because I told them that Ash was a pulser...

EDIT: Ashbringer

EDIT 2: Ashbringer

Nevermind! I recant my statement about Ash Pulsing me, I just realized I would’ve received a PM that I was pulsed and I did not... I am honestly confused now. All I know is that I submitted the action to roleblock Emi, and I don’t know what kind of shenanigans are going on. So unless Emi clarifies that they were actually roleblocked, which I’m 100% sure they were, then Emi and Ash are definitely working together. I still think that the village should let me prove my innocence by allowing to roleblock one person, that can testify that they are roleblocked.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ventyl
Crossed my debunked theory

[Karnage]

Umm, I am not sure what about me is giving y'all bad vibes but I don't like it. But, of course I would say that. 

I dunno, I kinda want to lynch Vyntl if only to find out if their lying. It seems like they are trying to build trust with the whole thread by taking a risk but it seems a little fishy. To those who have been more analytical, is there anything connecting them to anyone else.

As for me posting after day two was done, I hadn't seen the "closed sign" on the thread so I thought I was good to go ahead and post. I completely get it that last minute posts are fishy. 

For those who are voting on me, can you point out a list of reasons why you are suspicious of me?

[Ookla-son-son-Ventyl]

13 minutes ago, Karnage said:

Umm, I am not sure what about me is giving y'all bad vibes but I don't like it. But, of course I would say that. 

I dunno, I kinda want to lynch Vyntl if only to find out if their lying. It seems like they are trying to build trust with the whole thread by taking a risk but it seems a little fishy. To those who have been more analytical, is there anything connecting them to anyone else.

As for me posting after day two was done, I hadn't seen the "closed sign" on the thread so I thought I was good to go ahead and post. I completely get it that last minute posts are fishy. 

For those who are voting on me, can you point out a list of reasons why you are suspicious of me?

Is no one going to consider that Ash and/or Emi are elims? Is no one going to consider my offer of the village telling me who to roleblock to prove that I’m not lying? If y’all tell me who to roleblock, I can guarantee that they will be roleblocked, I bought a Steel Trap last cycle, because I figured that Ash was going to try something like this, so if it comes down to it, I can roleblock whoever the village wants me to and roleblock Ash to make sure they don’t Pulse me.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ventyl

[Mat he/him]

2 minutes ago, Ventyl said:

Is no one going to consider that Ash and/or Emi are elims? Is no one going to consider my offer of the village telling me who to roleblock to prove that I’m not lying? If y’all tell me who to roleblock, I can guarantee that they will be roleblocked, I bought a Steel Trap last cycle, because I figured that Ash was going to try something like this, so if it comes down to it, I can roleblock whoever the village wants me to and roleblock Ash to make sure they don’t Pulse me.

I could see a situation where elim!Karnage is trying to protect elim!Ash. But this whole thing is kinda weird, don't you agree?

[Ookla-son-son-Ventyl]

Just now, Matrim's_Dice said:

I could see a situation where elim!Karnage is trying to protect elim!Ash. But this whole thing is kinda weird, don't you agree?

Yeah, that’s exactly why I’m trying to prove I’m not lying about my role!

[Magestar he/him]

We've got like, half a cycle left.  Y'all need to chill lol.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

3 minutes ago, Matrim's_Dice said:

But this whole thing is kinda weird, don't you agree?

M. I'm getting that vibe a little too. I think we should wait until Emi gets on to make any judgements though. This could all just be a misunderstanding, and we should clear up that possibility before jumping to conclusions.

EDIT: Ninja'd by magestar.

Edited June 11, 2020 by The Young Pyromancer

[Mat he/him]

Just now, Magestar said:

We've got like, half a cycle left.  Y'all need to chill lol.

True

…But do you mean half a cycle as in 'that's a lot of time still' or 'that's barely anything'?  

[Mist she/her]

(Part the 30th, In which the COFFEE MACHINE’s printer capabilities allows for numericals to be used in the text heading.) 

THE COFFEE MACHINE: The COFFEE MACHINE has realized its mistake! The COFFEE MACHINE has activated its claxon!
BEEEEEEEP!!!!!!!!
BEEEEEEEP!!!!!!!!
BEEEEEEEP!!!!!!!!
Stick: The claxon mixed with the fire alarms to make it even harder to hear people! The true reason why this was the SHOUTY SHOUT AGENCY was because otherwise the members would be impossible to hear!

THE INSANITATION OFFICER: The INSANITATION OFFICER steps out of the flames unscathed eating a banana. 
Do you still want me to post the next part?
Doctor Google: Doc Google nodded. "If you are next in the agent list, then yes!"
He turned to their new secretary, @The Secretary! "How are you enjoying the SHOUTY SHOUT AGENCY!!! so far?"
 
The Secretary: The Secretary looked over with wide eyes. "It's rather loud." Realizing no one heard her over the alarms and beeps, she repeated, this time shouting. "It's rather loud!"
Now she was adding the clack-clack of her old fashioned typewriter to the noise. Someone had to take notes. 
(The Narrator was pleased that someone was taking note-taking seriously. That should make their work a lot easier.)

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Lot of time.

[Magestar he/him]

Just now, Matrim's_Dice said:

True

…But do you mean half a cycle as in 'that's a lot of time still' or 'that's barely anything'?  

I mean.  24 hours is a lot to me.   

[Kidpen he/him]

22 minutes ago, Karnage said:

For those who are voting on me, can you point out a list of reasons why you are suspicious of me?

Yes.

1. the vibes.

2. there is no two it's just the vibes.

Feel free to let me know if you need any clarification.

(I'm probably gonna change later. But also maybe not. Who knows.)

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

Just now, Kidpen said:

Yes.

1. the vibes.

2. there is no two it's just the vibes.

Feel free to let me know if you need any clarification.

(I'm probably gonna change later. But also maybe not. Who knows.)

Okay, this is just being unhelpful. I'm tempted to vote you on principle, but I doubt it would go anywhere.

[Ashbringer he/him]

Okay, I was out for an hour and I come back to this, and I don't have much time to post, so let me sort through it a bit.

Spoilered for Length:

Spoiler

50 minutes ago, Ventyl said:

@Ashbringer, I know for a fact I put in the action to roleblock Emi. I’m literally looking at the message Young Bard sent me saying I did! They only explanations for why you don’t believe this are:

1. You yourself are an elim and you’re trying to get a mislynch onto me by lying about Emi being roleblocked.

2. Emi is an elim and is lying to you about being roleblocked.

3. Both you and Emi are elims and are trying to get a mislynch onto me.

In scenario one Ash is elim and Emi is village. In scenario two Emi is an elim and Ash is village. In scenario both Ash and Emi are elims. I don’t know why this doesn’t seem suspicious to anyone else. Can anyone explain to me why I would lie to multiple people about my role to risk being lynched if I was an elim? Also, is it not possible that when I roleblocked Emi, they simply didn’t take an action? Can @StrikerEZ please confirm that if someone is roleblocked but they don’t take an action that it doesn’t tell them they were roleblock. 

Oh wait... I just figured this whole situation out...

Ash has claimed Pulser to me in PMs...

I want everyone to think about what that means...

If you really want to lynch me, wait until Day 4 when if I was pulsed it will show up for Emi during this night turn, I think. If I was pulsed by Ashbringer, then I’m pretty certain that they’re an elim. It could also explain why Araris was killed, because I told them that Ash was a pulser...

EDIT: Ashbringer

EDIT 2: Ashbringer

Nevermind! I recant my statement about Ash Pulsing me, I just realized I would’ve received a PM that I was pulsed and I did not... I am honestly confused now. All I know is that I submitted the action to roleblock Emi, and I don’t know what kind of shenanigans are going on. So unless Emi clarifies that they were actually roleblocked, which I’m 100% sure they were, then Emi and Ash are definitely working together. I still think that the village should let me prove my innocence by allowing to roleblock one person, that can testify that they are roleblocked.

 

... I was about to be upset/suspicious for you outing my role, but that actually makes a lot of sense. But if you didn't recieve a message saying you were roleblocked/pulsed, it's a moot point. Yes, I am a Pulser, although Ventyl will probably Roleblock me into oblivion for this if he lives.

However, this is kinda why I created this situation. Assuming that Emi confirms, one of us "must", according you you, be an Elim. Which means it comes down to who the village trusts more.

There is another option: we're all Village (or pretending to be but still complying) and Emi never submitted an action, and thought that's what I meant. And for "proving your innocence," that doesn't really help in this situation. For one thing, that's kinda what I've been doing, just with only Pyro as my kinda-witness kinda-insurance instead of the whole village. For another, any Elim would take an action as ordered by the village if the penalty for failing was a lynching.

Spoiler

33 minutes ago, Karnage said:

Umm, I am not sure what about me is giving y'all bad vibes but I don't like it. But, of course I would say that. 

I dunno, I kinda want to lynch Vyntl if only to find out if their lying. It seems like they are trying to build trust with the whole thread by taking a risk but it seems a little fishy. To those who have been more analytical, is there anything connecting them to anyone else.

As for me posting after day two was done, I hadn't seen the "closed sign" on the thread so I thought I was good to go ahead and post. I completely get it that last minute posts are fishy.

 

It's not really the fact it was after the fact that bothers me, its that you didn't log in until then. Which is NAI, but strange.

Spoiler

20 minutes ago, Ventyl said:

Is no one going to consider that Ash and/or Emi are elims? Is no one going to consider my offer of the village telling me who to roleblock to prove that I’m not lying? If y’all tell me who to roleblock, I can guarantee that they will be roleblocked, I bought a Steel Trap last cycle, because I figured that Ash was going to try something like this, so if it comes down to it, I can roleblock whoever the village wants me to and roleblock Ash to make sure they don’t Pulse me.

Just saying, I have no idea which takes precedence, Steel Trap, Leeching, or Pulsing. If we both survive this lynch, I won't Pulse you the night cycle. But again, compliance with a Village order isn't proof you're Village.

As for you figuring I would try something like this... I mean, I suppose I wasn't being very subtle trying to get you to pick a Roleblock target. But if you suspected me before all that, enough to found a society to accuse me (?), I'm not sure why you didn't say anything before now.

Spoiler

22 minutes ago, Matrim's_Dice said:

I could see a situation where elim!Karnage is trying to protect elim!Ash. But this whole thing is kinda weird, don't you agree?

I still am suspicious of Karnage. I'm not sure why he's helping me. But I think whether Ventyl or I flip Village or Elim, it will help lead to Karnage's alignment.

 

Lastly, I agree that we need Emi's say in all this, but she's been tagged plenty and and she hasn't visited in 5 hours. If she can clear this up as a misunderstanding, then I am truly very sorry for all the accusations, but its a lead I have to follow through with. If Emi never posts, then I don't know what to do.

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ashbringer

[Kidpen he/him]

24 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Okay, this is just being unhelpful. I'm tempted to vote you on principle, but I doubt it would go anywhere.

Pyro it's just the vibes. I don't know what else you want out of me pyro. Are the vibes not enough for you?

Actually though, I feel like this game has reached a point of complexity that any attempt on my part to go by actual evidence is doomed to failure, or at least doomed to have 50% or less odds. Even in the last couple games I've played where it was significantly less complex, my attempts to think through things and second guess my gut feelings have led to me not lynching a single elim. So this time I'm changing things up.

It's all about the vibes now pyro.

[Ookla-son-son-Ventyl]

1 minute ago, Kidpen said:

Pyro it's just the vibes. I don't know what else you want out of me pyro. Are the vibes not enough for you?

Actually though, I feel like this game has reached a point of complexity that any attempt on my part to go by actual evidence is doomed to failure, or at least doomed to have 50% or less odds. Even in the last couple games I've played where it was significantly less complex, my attempts to think through things and second guess my gut feelings have led to me not lynching a single elim. So this time I'm changing things up.

It's all about the vibes now pyro.

I agree with the fact that the game has devolved into utter chaos were rational thought is no longer present. 

[Elandera she/her]

Vote Count:

Karnage (3) - Elandera, Experience, Pyro, Kidpen
Lahlit (1) - TJ Shade
Kynedath (1) - Magestar
Ventyl (3) - Experience, Ashbringer, Karnage

6 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Gonna go with Karnage for now, as Elandera is someone I'm hoping to get better reads on/contact with, and if Karnage flips village, that clears me to them, where if he doesn't, that makes her more likely to be an elim!Kandra, or just a Kandra in general trying to balance the game.

I'm not really sure I see where you draw the line from my accusations of Karnage to me being the Kandra. A Kandra (outside of an elim!Kandra) would still be just as in the dark as the village about the elim team composition. It's not like Kandra!me could suddenly start systematically taking out the elim team to tip things into my favor.

Speaking of which, @StrikerEZ, is it possible for the elims and Kandra to win together if the Kandra is an elim and is the last one remaining?

1 hour ago, Karnage said:

For those who are voting on me, can you point out a list of reasons why you are suspicious of me?

See this post of mine. It has to do with Xino's vote, who has now flipped elim.

As for everything regarding Ventyl, lying about a role is NAI traditionally. Especially on D1. While it's not normal for a lot of people to claim D1, it's totally normal for others (see Lumgol's history). It's all based on style. Some people are chill with revealing a lot of information, regardless of their alignment. Also, please consider the fact this is a role madness game. There really isn't a role, the exception being the Kandra, whose alignment is tied to the role. Lynching someone for their role and roleclaim alone is a very slippery slope. I say this having been lynched/killed several times just because I got a thug role, and everyone thought the elims were likely to have a thug. 

If there is evidence against Ventyl outside the roleclaim issue, please, bring it forward.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Elandera

[Lahilt he/him]

The following is the reason I am very suspicious of Ventyl. I was asked by Ventyl to take my vote off of Experience in the first post of the whispery whisper PM. I replied that I would do it but i would need an explanation later as this was very close to rollover. Experience and Matrims dice can both verify this.                                Ventyl Quote---- Mainly because I’ve wanted to team up with them, and that I thought Drake was slightly more suspicious. So why wouldn’t I change my vote to someone I think is more suspicious, even if it’s just a small amount? If it comes down to it, I think there still is a possibility of elim!Experience, but I want to wait a little longer to see if I can get better reads off of them if they do more analysis like the one on myself. When they do that, I’ll make an updated analysis similar to the one I did on Araris. -----

Why did you ask me to remove my vote? The only way that you could be that sure that Experience would be village was if you somehow knew that all along. And if you were only slightly more suspicious of Drake than Experience why was it so important that you wanted me to take back my vote as well. I think this was an attempt by Ventyl to get multiple people myself and Experience included, to trust you. Also in the PM Ventyl asked said we should all reveal or roles so we can work more efficiently together. Again this does seem like an Elim phishing for information.

So the claim by Ashbringer about Ventyl lying about their role. I do not think Ventyl proving they are not lying will prove that they are not Elim it could also mean that anybody on the Elim team could be the leacher. I think a lynch on Ventyl would give us a lot of information because it ties in with quite a few different players. I see I got ninja on some of this.                                                                                                                                                                       

Edited June 11, 2020 by Lahilt
add quote

[Experience he/him]

4 hours ago, Magestar said:

I don't quite get this.  If Ventyl were an Elim, wouldn't it just make more sense for them not to touch anything?  It wouldn't really matter which villager died.

What I meant is that it seemed like they were trying to blend in with the crowd, and lynched me after other people had expressed suspicion on me, then took it off after others did. I think that a Ventyl lynch would give us a good amount of information. @Emi, can you confirm if you were roleblocked? If Ventyl flips village, then that will make karnage and/or emi look really bad, so it still gives us information. I think i'll try and go do some analysis, though I don't know if I'll be able to finish. 

[Ashbringer he/him]

Just to clarify, I think it's less that Ventyl isn't a Leecher than Ventyl directly lied about who he was going to Leech. Although with Steel Traps it will be harder to prove...

(Moved into a spoiler box, because Striker confirmed that I was (probably) wrong, and there’s no strikethrough on mobile)

Spoiler

Wait.

If someone buys something from the shop, the 25 Boxing limit kicks in. And Striker is supposed to notify us when that happens.

I don't see anything to suggest that the Boxing limit has been engaged.

But Ventyl has claimed, in thread and in PM, that he's bought a Steel Trap.

Another lie, unless @StrikerEZ missed enacting the Boxing limit last night.

 

On another note, to everyone saying that it's just the first day of D3, I'm kinda trying to avoid another last-minute lynch. That and I wanted to give Emi a chance to clarify and Ventyl a chance to respond.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ashbringer
I was wrong

[Lahilt he/him]

11 minutes ago, Elandera said:

If there is evidence against Ventyl outside the roleclaim issue, please, bring it forward

Yes I spent a while typing it out on my mobile, see the above.

my evidence is that Ventyl told me to pull my lynch vote from Experience. Then when I asked them why they had no real reason for it. 

[StrikerEZ he/him]

1 minute ago, Ashbringer said:

Another lie, unless @StrikerEZ missed enacting the Boxing limit last night.

This was indeed a mistake on my part.

17 minutes ago, Elandera said:

Speaking of which, @StrikerEZ, is it possible for the elims and Kandra to win together if the Kandra is an elim and is the last one remaining?

The Kandra must be the last player standing for them to win.

[Magestar he/him]

56 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Okay, this is just being unhelpful. I'm tempted to vote you on principle, but I doubt it would go anywhere.

I don't know, it gave me a good chuckle.   

*wipes single tear*  The vibes.  Good one.

10 minutes ago, Experience said:

What I meant is that it seemed like they were trying to blend in with the crowd, and lynched me after other people had expressed suspicion on me, then took it off after others did. I think that a Ventyl lynch would give us a good amount of information. @Emi, can you confirm if you were roleblocked? If Ventyl flips village, then that will make karnage and/or emi look really bad, so it still gives us information. I think i'll try and go do some analysis, though I don't know if I'll be able to finish. 

I guess it's possible that now the Ventyl lynch might give us some information, but only because of this whole role shenanigans bit.  I feel like we'd almost learn more from finally lynching you, since you've managed to escape the lynch a couple times now, and you've been the subject of discussion for so long.  We could get quite a bit of information about the people who pushed or supported your lynch, and the people who fought against it, by knowing your alignment.  Ventyl, on the other hand, would give us a little bit of information about a couple of people because of a PM conversation that most people in thread know next to nothing about.  I don't really see it.

5 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Just to clarify, I think it's less that Ventyl isn't a Leecher than Ventyl directly lied about who he was going to Leech. Although with Steel Traps it will be harder to prove...

Wait.

If someone buys something from the shop, the 25 Boxing limit kicks in. And Striker is supposed to notify us when that happens.

I don't see anything to suggest that the Boxing limit has been engaged.

But Ventyl has claimed, in thread and in PM, that he's bought a Steel Trap.

Another lie, unless @StrikerEZ missed enacting the Boxing limit last night.

 

On another note, to everyone saying that it's just the first day of D3, I'm kinda trying to avoid another last-minute lynch. That and I wanted to give Emi a chance to clarify and Ventyl a chance to respond.

Well.  There's a certain point at which there's no longer a point to trying to present opposing viewpoints.    I'll throw my vote on Ventyl if Striker confirms that the Boxing limit was not in fact enacted.  I admit that a good portion of Ventyl's posts seem pretty off.  Frankly, the Kynedath lynch doesn't seem to really be going anywhere anyway.  I'm interested to see where this cycle goes.

edit:  OH SHOOT NEVERMIND.   

Edited June 11, 2020 by Magestar

[Ashbringer he/him]

... well there goes that part of the theory.

[Elandera she/her]

Just now, StrikerEZ said:

The Kandra must be the last player standing for them to win.

Yes, but are the elim and Kandra win-cons compatible if the Kandra is an elim, and is the last one standing?