Mistborn in The Lost Metal

[Friendshipspren he/him]

Ok guys Maybe this theory has been broached before but could Mistborn make an appearance in TLM , the final book of the Wax and Wayne Tetralogy.

Now , we know the Set has been gathering allomancer women from less diluted bloodlines in order to breed a Mistborn.

But the biggest problem is that it will take time , maybe  decades or even a century before the required results are generated.

However , there is a way to bypass this . 

Bendalloy mistings !!!!

Suppose you get a woman pregnant and get her in the presence of a bendalloy Savant or atleast a Flarer . A few days worth of time would be diluted to months . In that time , the woman would give birth , recover and would be ready to be impregnated again.

Then you could apply the same process on the kids , to accelerate thier growth.

You could have the bed , books , bathroom , etc within a 5 foot radius or the guy could just drop the bubble when the kid moves and put up new ones.  Tutors , nannies , brainwashers , trainers in most of the allomantic metals could work in the bubble as well.

Things could be wilder if you have two or more sliders slowing time at the same instant. This could lead to further time compression. ( This is confirmed btw either in the coppermind or via a WoB )

Or you could have a Nicroburster to speed things along.

Then there are those allomantic grenades .

For training in metals like iron , steel , tin and maybe pewter , you would need effort in real time but most of the other activities  could occur in the time bubble.

Also they won't have to focus on all the kids all the time. Suppose you speed time along until a specific age , say puberty ( if that's still the age of allomantic maturity after Harmony's intervention ). Then you could check if the kid's an allomancer. If he /she is just a misting or a normie , they will be dropped from the time dilation program. 

They would then be used for breeding.

Bendalloy and nicrosil mistings however could be recruited into the operation.

Then suppose you get a Mistborn kid , you could then allocate all your sliders to working on him in a super bubble. The kid herself could burn bendalloy with duralumin to gain more time and Nicroburst her fellow Sliders.

A Century worth of time could be compressed into a few years. 

Now let's go over the probable setbacks :

One ). Hiring the required Sliders.

Now not every slider will be crazy about aging decades in a timebubble , but :

I ). A few might be dedicated to the Set and will do the job.

II ). Many would agree to it for adequate financial compensation for themselves or more likely for  thier loved ones.

III ). Others could be blackmailed or tortured or they and thier loved ones could be threatened. There will be guards loyal to the Set with them , of course , to make sure they don't indoctrinate rebellion in the kids and to keep them at gunpoint 

IV ). The Sliders who aren't daunted by death or torture or threats could be used to harvest hemalurgic spikes which would then be granted to loyal  members or desperate victims of the Set who are willing to do the job.

V ). As time goes by , some of the kids will turn out to be Sliders , powerful ones too , since they will have purer blood.  They will already be brainwashed by the Set and since that's the life they will be used to , I guess they won't be too daunted about becoming Bendalloy Savants. Same applies for the Nicrobursters.

VI ). Also I have this theory. Like suppose there's a Slider who can create a bubble 5 feet across and a pulser ( cadmium misting , ex : marasi ) with a lesser radius ,say 2 feet. Could they both put up buubles while standing within 2 feet of each other . Within the two feet radius , the two metals will cancel each other's temporal disparities. But within the 2-5 feet radius , time will be diluted and slow. 

_______________         _______________

Two). The required metals .

Now I'm guessing you will probably need tonnes of metal for the operation. Bendalloy is an expensive metal as is duralumin and Nicrosil. But as we know

I ). The Vanishers have already stolen tonnes of the stuff 

II ). Seeing the Set is comprised of members who are far from destitute, ( the Vanishers real goal was to destroy the solvency of House Tekiel and to kidnap the women ) so I don't think it will be hard for them to acquire the metals , especially if the operation yields promising results.

III ). The Southern Scadrians might have developed better , far more efficient and economic methods for cadmium and bendalloy production. 

 

_____________   ____________  ___________

The Set might expand thier ambition from beyond luthadel to the entire world of Scadrial. 

It could actually be how we get to know about the SSc. Mistborn operatives raiding to gain tech and the SSc requesting aid from Elendelite metalborn like Wax , Wayne , Marasi and the kandra . This would give us PoVs on the society , culture , politics , history , technology of the SSc and maybe on kelsier too.

So what do y'all think ?

Could the fourth book have a Set Mistborn trying to overtake the government ?

Does Telsin or Steris's cousin's children or grandchildren or great grandchildren go up against  Marasi and Wax and Wayne ?

It would an interesting dynamic , Wax and Marasi going against thier own grand niece or nephew.

If my theory is true , the implications could be terrifying.

Imagine Mistborn on the level of Spook or stronger , with access to all 16 metals !!!!!!

Not to mention they might have hemalurgic spikes for F-gold allowing them to compound and become  indestructible

They could also have spikes granting them greater allomantic abilities.

They could have F- iron ,  allowing them to compound weight and thier steelpushes to become more destructive than Wax could dream of. They could survive the ironpulls too , via gold or steel compounding.

There is even a slight chance that they might acquire F-chromium as well. 

Especially if the terris elders form the backbone of or atleast are members of the Set as another one of my pet theory states .

Then of course, the medallion tech might be used to compound as well.

________________________________________

And finally i believe this plotline could explain the book title as well. This is probably not true but eh.....

At the beginning , before they find out the truth ,  the sudden appearence of the Mistborn might lead to many speculating that the reason for the sudden reappearence of Mistborn is Lerasium or diluted Lerasium whatever that is or isn't .

So Lerasium is ,

The Lost Metal.The operation and goals make perfect sense. It doesn't violate any law of space , time or investiture and it is seriously dramatic. 

 I would like to thank @king of nowhere @Honorless, @The traveller , @aneonfoxtribute, @Ookla the Prolific. For pointing out flaws in my theory and helping me make it better in the comments.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by PrinceGenocide
Some polishing

[Raphaborn]

Man, this Slider theory is really incredibly good. LOL

[Honorless he/him]

These are all pretty heavy speculation for the next book...

I don't think so. This era, going by both how the narrative and Brandon's original plan for it, isn't going to conclusively deal with either the Set or the other Shard. I think the next book will deal more with the Southern Scadrians. Kind of necessary for the tech boom of the next era.

The Lost Metal is more likely to refer to Atium. Lerasium isn't widely known in-world.

Using cerrobend at that scale is not something the Set should be capable of yet going by BoM.

[Aon Tia she/her]

2 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Now I'm guessing you will probably need tonnes of metal for the operation. Bendalloy is an expensive metal as is duralumin and Nicrosil. But as we know

I ). The Vanishers have already stolen tonnes of the stuff and

II ). Seeing the Set is comprised of members who are far from destitute , I don't think it will be hard to acquire the metals , especially if the operation yields promising results.

I like your theory, The only problem i could see was that bendalloy is supposed to be very costly but then Set members are quite capable of affording it. You are right. 

Is it true, that the vanishers stole bendalloy? I do not remember. If so, then it clearly proves that bendalloy is important to them!

This idea has just made Set so much more evil for me!

[aneonfoxtribute]

I am hesitant to believe this theory only because I'm not sure if Samderson would go as far as time-diluted sexual slavery and grooming,  especially making it an important part of the story . It strikes me as something that a lot of authors, Sanderson included, would never try. If Sanderson wrote dark fantasy, then maybe, but he doesn't. I think that Warbreaker is the darkest he's going to get in a sexual manner, because the breeding part still is unconfirmed.

[Honorless he/him]

9 minutes ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

I am hesitant to believe this theory only because I'm not sure if Sanderson would go as far as time-diluted sexual slavery and grooming,  especially making it an important part of the story . It strikes me as something that a lot of authors, Sanderson included, would never try. If Sanderson wrote dark fantasy, then maybe, but he doesn't. I think that Warbreaker is the darkest he's going to get in a sexual manner, because the breeding part still is unconfirmed.

Agreed, it seems like a narrative improbability

There's also the Terris Breeders in the original Mistborn trilogy

[Friendshipspren he/him]

2 hours ago, The traveller said:

I like your theory, The only problem i could see was that bendalloy is supposed to be very costly but then Set members are quite capable of affording it. You are right. 

Is it true, that the vanishers stole bendalloy? I do not remember. If so, then it clearly proves that bendalloy is important to them!

This idea has just made Set so much more evil for me!

They did. An entire shipment from house tekial. I'm rereading AoL now

[Friendshipspren he/him]

2 hours ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

I am hesitant to believe this theory only because I'm not sure if Samderson would go as far as time-diluted sexual slavery and grooming,  especially making it an important part of the story . It strikes me as something that a lot of authors, Sanderson included, would never try. If Sanderson wrote dark fantasy, then maybe, but he doesn't. I think that Warbreaker is the darkest he's going to get in a sexual manner, because the breeding part still is unconfirmed.

Yeah that is true. But idk Maybe he will surprise us. I hope so atleast. I like dark , warped stuff . 

Wait Warbreaker was dark. Really ?

Spoiler

The darkest stuff was about how the god Kings are actually tongue mutilated puppets.

I didn't really see how that's dark. I mean it is but not too much. Especially since 

Spoiler

The king gets his tongue back

Now I have a dark theory for nalthis. Read it in the next comment. I have highlighted it too

Edited December 2, 2019 by PrinceGenocide
A little polishing

[Friendshipspren he/him]

4 hours ago, Honorless said:

These are all pretty heavy speculation for the next book...

I don't think so. This era, going by both how the narrative and Brandon's original plan for it, isn't going to conclusively deal with either the Set or the other Shard. I think the next book will deal more with the Southern Scadrians. Kind of necessary for the tech boom of the next era.

The Lost Metal is more likely to refer to Atium. Lerasium isn't widely known in-world.

Using cerrobend at that scale is not something the Set should be capable of yet going by BoM.

Sure it is heavy speculation. But it is completely within the realm of possibility. 

And Brandon has this thing to pull off the unexpected. 

I think the Mistborn would have great potential against the SS ( southern Scadrians ). Wow that sounds wrong. Ok against the SSC. 

All the high tech could be neutralized by a single duralumin boosted mistborn. 

The set might expand thier Ambition from beyond luthadel to the entire world of Scadrial. 

It could actually be how we get to know about the SSC. Mistborn operatives raiding to gain tech and the SSC requesting aid from  metalborn like wax , Wayne , marasi and the kandra trying to stop them . Would give us povs on the society , culture , politics , history , technology , kelsier , everything.

Ok , I guess I'm not 100% sure but it is by far among the best theories i have come up with. Its got all the necessary ingredients too.

Bendalloy ,check.

Allomancer captives, check.

Hemalurgy ,check.

Extreme pressure in the set to accelerate thier programs, check.

SSCs , check.

It's Kinda my darkest too , although not as dark as my theory about human farming for Breaths on Nalthis where children are enslaved or killed as soon as Breaths are extracted from them. That's awesome in a terrible way and I doubt Sanderson will make it happen but who knows ?

You are probably right about the atium part. But we all know Lerasium could fit the past too. It's not well known but I'm sure many have figured it out. It's in the words of founding after all.

As for using bendalloy , well they have an entire shipment and if Wayne who was dirt poor , had little practice with it before wax came into his life and who still is dependent on wax for it could figure out all the tricks. I'm sure the nobility/ the Set can. 

Also edit about cadmium in main post .

 

 

Edited December 2, 2019 by PrinceGenocide
A little polishing

[Aon Tia she/her]

2 hours ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

I am hesitant to believe this theory only because I'm not sure if Samderson would go as far as time-diluted sexual slavery and grooming,  especially making it an important part of the story . It strikes me as something that a lot of authors, Sanderson included, would never try. If Sanderson wrote dark fantasy, then maybe, but he doesn't. I think that Warbreaker is the darkest he's going to get in a sexual manner, because the breeding part still is unconfirmed.

what dark breeding part in warbreaker are you referring to?  I am totally blanking on this. 

Also, not of a sexual nature but i think Taravangian using his hospitals to kill people by drawing their blood to learn about more death rattles was pretty dark too. The whole Rift incidence was quite dark stuff too. and the oathgate platform in Kholinar and what went on there was quite there too. I think that Brandon has the capacity to surprise us and he just might. The whole taking young women captive who have strong allomantic genes is a strong indication that they are going to be used for some twisted breeding program. And if Set had also stolen bendalloy then it is possible that they might be trying to speed up the process to curtail the time needed.

[Honorless he/him]

42 minutes ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Yeah that is true. But idk Maybe he will surprise us. I hope so atleast. I like dark , warped stuff . 

Wait Warbreaker was dark. Really ?

  Reveal hidden contents

The darkest stuff was about how the god Kings are actually puppets.

I didn't really see how that's dark. I mean it is but not too much. Especially since 

  Reveal hidden contents

The king gets his tongue back

Now I have a dark theory for nalthis. Read it in the next post 

Warbreaker wasn't dark, Nalthis was.

The system of BioChromatic Breath means there's systematic exploitation of the poor in order to gather Breaths. We saw examples of how giving up Breath felt, it is something intrinsic to people that they were born with. On top of that the Returned, even in the country where they are treated the best: as gods, they are expected to die again in order to heal someone. It's a constant guilt-trip till that decision. Elsewhere they are prejudiced against, exploited for use of their Divine Breath, die within a week. If they want to survive beyond a week? Breath.

The setting of Nalthis, though colourful is very, very dark

20 minutes ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Sure it is heavy speculation. But it is completely within the realm of possibility. 

And Brandon has this thing to pull off the unexpected. 

I think the Mistborn would have great potential against the SS. Wow that sounds wrong. Ok against the SSC. 

All the high tech could be neutralized by a single duralumin boosted mistborn. 

The set might expand thier ambition from beyond Luthadel to the entire world of Scadrial. 

It could actually be how we get to know about the SSC. Mistborn operatives raiding to gain tech and the SSC requesting aid from  metalborn like wax , Wayne , marasi and the kandra trying to stop them . Would give us povs on the society , culture , politics , history , technology , kelsier , everything.

Ok , I guess I'm not 100% sure but it is by far among the best theories i have come up with. Its got all the necessary ingredients too.

Bendalloy ,check.

Allomancer captives, check.

Hemalurgy ,check.

Extreme pressure in the set to accelerate thier programs, check.

SSCs , check.

It's Kinda my darkest too , although not as dark as my theory about human farming for Breaths on Nalthis where children are enslaved or killed as soon as Breaths are extracted from them. That's awesome in a terrible way and I doubt Sanderson will make it happen but who knows ?

You are probably right about the atium part. But we all know Lerasium could fit the past too. It's not well known but I'm sure many have figured it out. It's in the words of founding after all.

As for using bendalloy , well they have an entire shipment and if Wayne who was dirt poor , had little practice with it before wax came into his life and who still is dependent on wax go it could figure out all the tricks. I'm sure the nobility/ the Set can. 

Also edit about cadmium in main post .

Please watch out for typos "I tje" and state the full form "SSC" of your abbreviation for the first instance so people know what it stands for.

I admit that these are possibilities within the setting, my point is that it seems narratively unlikely.

 

I think @aneonfoxtribute was referring to the God King's lineage

Edited December 2, 2019 by Honorless

[Friendshipspren he/him]

43 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Please watch out for typos "I tje" and state the full form "SSC" of your abbreviation for the first instance so people know what it stands for.

Noted.

Quote

I think @aneonfoxtribute was referring to the God King's lineage

Ah kk.

Spoiler

The dead baby thing 

Idk, it's  nothing beyond the stuff we saw in Scadrial era 1. But yeah nalthis is plenty dark but again nothing beyond the brutality of era 1.

 

[Friendshipspren he/him]

48 minutes ago, The traveller said:

what dark breeding part in warbreaker are you referring to?  I am totally blanking on this. 

Also, not of a sexual nature but i think Taravangian using his hospitals to kill people by drawing their blood to learn about more death rattles was pretty dark too. The whole Rift incidence was quite dark stuff too. and the oathgate platform in Kholinar and what went on there was quite there too. I think that Brandon has the capacity to surprise us and he just might. The whole taking young women captive who have strong allomantic genes is a strong indication that they are going to be used for some twisted breeding program. And if Set had also stolen bendalloy then it is possible that they might be trying to speed up the process to curtail the time needed.

Thanks Trav

[Honorless he/him]

1 minute ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Idk, it's  nothing beyond the stuff we saw in Scadrial era 1. But yeah nalthis is plenty dark but again nothing beyond the brutality of era 1.

That's true. The treatment of skaa was far worse than the treatment of Darkeyes. I suppose it's the general theme and ambiance that sets Final Empire era Scadrial as grimdark and Roshar as medieval and Nalthis as... somewhat sinister, colourful with hidden undertones

[aneonfoxtribute]

I'm not talking dark "breeding" in Warbreaker, I'm just saying it's the darkest in a sexual manner that I think he'll get, considering the start of the book. 

[king of nowhere]

isn't canon that a pulser and slider cancel each other? you can't make two bubbles one withgin the other.

as for having people live their whole lives in bendalloy bubbles, the way wayne talks about price, i don't think there's enough bendalloy in the world for it

[Karger he/him]

On 12/2/2019 at 11:26 AM, king of nowhere said:

isn't canon that a pulser and slider cancel each other? you can't make two bubbles one withgin the other.

Yes.  Marsie says so.

I do hope Kelsier makes a cameo to burn the trellium so that we can see what it does.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Ookla the Prolific

[Friendshipspren he/him]

8 hours ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

I'm not talking dark "breeding" in Warbreaker, I'm just saying it's the darkest in a sexual manner that I think he'll get, considering the start of the book. 

I don't think that was dark at all. I mean it was Siri scared of susebron while susebron was scared of Siri. That was just funny . 

Lots of darker stuff has happened  behind the scenes in all the books.

In era 1 , you have the rape and murder of the skaa plantation workers and forced prostitutes.

You have alrienne and shallan commenting on how they would have been raped and murdered by thier ' rescuers ' if not for thier dominant personality and promise of greater reward.

You have jasnah murdering those thieves in the alleyway and commenting they were nothing more than rapists and murderers.

You have the Terris breeding programs which effectively mean gangrape and forced prostitution and forced seperation of mothers and children.

Now I'm not saying the sexual slavery part will be shown onpage. But it will be implied .

8 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

isn't canon that a pulser and slider cancel each other? you can't make two bubbles one withgin the other.

8 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

.

as for having people live their whole lives in bendalloy bubbles, the way wayne talks about price, i don't think there's enough bendalloy in the world for it

 

It is Canon but we don't know if it cancels completely or only within the overlapping radius.   

Well it doesn't matter , since cadmium bubbles are room sized while bendalloy ones are 5 feet across.

My theory requires the opposite to be true.

Although perhaps you could get around it making weaker pulsers via spikes subjected to a proportionate amount of hemalurgic decay. So the new pulsars could create a bubble just 1-2 feet across

Besides , it's stated in the coppermind

Quote

If someone were able to burn the amount of cadmium needed to become an Allomantic savant with the metal, they would be able to slow time to a greater degree than a regular Misting.^[8] They would also be able to influence the size of the bubble and the amount of time it gives.^[9]

So a savant could perhaps have larger bubbles. Combine that with weaker pulsers and the conditions for my theory is achieved.

@king of nowhere they would be burning bendalloy to slow time for themselves. That's all that's required but I thought perhaps if they had a cadmium pulser side by side with the slider they could cancel each other within a small radius. You can read more about that above this paragraph. I will agree that idk really know what flaring or Nicrobursting will do. I thought perhaps it allows time to move superslowly but might be wrong.

Now even if cadmium and bendalloy cancel each other , it's just a minor hitch in my theory . The operation would still occur.

Now as for the bendalloy required.

8 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

as for having people live their whole lives in bendalloy bubbles, the way wayne talks about price, i don't think there's enough bendalloy in the world for it

 1). Wayne is dirt poor. 

2). He depends on Wax for the stuff and wax depends on steris for the money and I'm sure steris would have a heart attack if she learned half her wealth is burning up in bendalloy.

3). The set already has tonnes of stolen bendalloy.

4). The set members are rich. Richer than steris even , there are several of them and they are far more desperate. 

5). If they get the required results they will have lesser inhibitions on spending thier wealth on bendalloy.

6). Once u get a bendalloy Savant , they will be efficient. Ie , they will slow more time for lesser amounts of bendalloy. 

(  This would be even easier if  my weakened pulsers and the effects canceling out in a limited radius are possible too, so let's just keep this half in mind ).

7). The SSc might have developed better , far more efficient and economic methods for cadmium and bendalloy production. 

This tech might proliferate to elendel . ( The set or even normal industries and individuals will do thier best to steal the knowledge I'm sure )

Or even if they can't , I'm sure they will  import it from the SSc, either legally or through the black market. It would be still expensive but less compared to producing it with thier inefficient methods.

[Aon Tia she/her]

16 hours ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Lots of darker stuff has happened  behind the scenes in all the books.

In era 1 , you have the rape and murder of the skaa plantation workers and forced prostitutes.

You have alrienne and shallan commenting on how they would have been raped and murdered by thier ' rescuers ' if not for thier dominant personality and promise of greater reward.

You have jasnah murdering those thieves in the alleyway and commenting they were nothing more than rapists and murderers.

You have the Terris breeding programs which effectively mean gangrape and forced prostitution and forced seperation of mothers and children.

Now I'm not saying the sexual slavery part will be shown onpage. But it will be implied

Yup I agree. And I agree with honorless that it may not be very explicit or sexual related but the whole taking the breath of people is very dark stuff, if you really think about it Nalthis society is very messed up. The whole petitioning the god kings for their divine breath one time healing was also a tough scene to go through. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by The traveller

[Friendshipspren he/him]

Besides , it's stated in the coppermind

 

Quote

If someone were able to burn the amount of cadmium needed to become an Allomantic savant with the metal, they would be able to slow time to a greater degree than a regular Misting.^[8] They would also be able to influence the size of the bubble and the amount of time it gives.^[9]

So a savant could perhaps have larger bubbles. Combine that with weaker pulsers and the conditions for my theory is achieved. 

Quote

Questioner

With a cadmium or bendalloy savant, would they be able to impact the amount of time that they can compress or expand?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Questioner

So they could fit-- Theoretically they could make-- fit more time into the same amount of metal.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, that's what you're asking. Yeee-- *pauses* So, yes, technically, because... Yes, but mostly what that's going to do is going to influence your strength and how much you can multiply--

Questioner

The size of the bubble?

Brandon Sanderson

The size of the bubble and the amount of time, like when you flare, you are pressing more time into it and a savant is gonna get really good at that. They're gonna get good at changing the bubble and the shape of the bubble, they're gonna get good at some of the other things involving the bubble. It does technically, as you become a savant, does mean you're able to squeeze a little bit more out of your metal, because that's just how it works, but that's not the main effect.

Skyward San Francisco signing (Nov. 8, 2018)

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by PrinceGenocide
A little polishing

[Karger he/him]

A better option might be the silverlight method whatever it is for time dilation.  We know the set are worldhoppers.

[Friendshipspren he/him]

14 minutes ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

A better option might be the silverlight method whatever it is for time dilation.  We know the set are worldhoppers.

Are they ? I mean the red eyes agents of trell are. But the set members themselves aren't. 

And now trell wants to destroy Scadrial. I'm guessing it didn't dispense any unnecessary secrets beforehand. 

Edwarn is offworld. He might only come back a century or so after , if he ever does.

 

[Karger he/him]

10 minutes ago, PrinceGenocide said:

Are they ? I mean the red eyes agents of trell are. But the set members themselves aren't. 

Give women to eyed people.  Then they may blindfold the kidnapped people take them through a pool and then have them wait their for a while saying that Trell is enhancing the speed of the project.

[Aon Tia she/her]

So you are saying that the kidnapped women have been taken off-planet!!? Well that would make finding them impossible. Very smart!

[Friendshipspren he/him]

25 minutes ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

Give women to eyed people.  Then they may blindfold the kidnapped people take them through a pool and then have them wait their for a while saying that Trell is enhancing the speed of the project.

Oh kk. That's a nice plan. They could do that but then now that trell has abandoned the set , I guess the women would be dead or maybe thier children would be used on other worlds. Hmm yeah , an interesting possibility.