Quantus he/him Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Hot damnation! We have confirmation that the "Wisdom" Hoid was referring to is indeed a Shard. We also have a hint that Prudence" could be one (possibly the elusive "wants to survive" shard"). Quote Paleo All right the, 'Wisdom Shard,' again. We have one quote where Hoid cited, "Some men, as they age, grow wiser. I am not one of those, for wisdom and I have always been at cross-purposes." Is he referring to the Shard there or the Vessel? Brandon Sanderson Yes. Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019) Quote Paleo In May, in Germany, you told me that... or I asked whether Wisdom was a Shard, and you said it was or something like it, and that wisdom was close to an intent of a Shard, and you also told me that it has realized that survival isn't necessarily the most important thing for it. I wanted to ask whether it has realized that over time or was it from the get go? Brandon Sanderson Over time. Paleo Okay, so then naturally, my next question: Is it the survival Shard? Brandon Sanderson RAFO. Paleo And then somebody actually came up with another good probable name. Is Prudence close? Brandon Sanderson Prudence sounds an awful lot like a Shard name. That's some excellent theorizing there. Prague Signing (Oct. 26, 2019) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless he/him Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) There was also that WoB on Magic the Gathering style colours of the Shards, he said we haven't seen any of the Blue ones: Quote LordSkybreaker Hey u/mistborn I have a couple questions about Magic: the gathering. What colors/kind of deck do you play in magic? What colors are the known shards? What colors are the various orders of the knights Radiant? And finally, have you ever thought of doing the story for Wizards Of The Coast on one of their mtg blocks? Brandon Sanderson Any combo-style deck I can draft--or esper if I'm constructed. Ruin: Black. Odium: Red. Honor: White. Preservation: White. Cultivation: Green. Devotion: Green/red. Dominion: Black/White. Autonomy: It's complicated. (Also, question 3 is way too large for me to commit to right now. And for 4, if the right opportunity came along and they were interested, I could see myself doing this.) SoupOrMan692 What about Endowment and Ambition? Brandon Sanderson Ambition is mono-black, and endowment is probably mono-green. Some of the blue shards are ones we haven't seen as much from yet. Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 5, 2018) Now we have one of them Edited October 30, 2019 by Honorless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Prudence seems like a subset of Wisdom to me. They are almost the same concept, but Prudence is a bit narrower. I don't know that both would exist separate at the same time. An early Brandon clarification on the Hide + Survive Shard was that the Hide + Survive aspect is only tangentially related to the Intent. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/6/#e326 Prudence is directly about avoiding danger, it's one of the definitions. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prudence 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Child of Hodor said: Prudence is directly about avoiding danger, it's one of the definitions. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prudence However it is more about making good decisions designed to have good outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 30 minutes ago, Karger said: However it is more about making good decisions designed to have good outcomes. Which is likely what changed over time for it: once it was focused on Personal survival, but seems to have found reason to rearrange its priorities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Quantus said: Which is likely what changed over time for it: once it was focused on Personal survival, but seems to have found reason to rearrange its priorities. Perhaps it viewed the fates of other careful shards and realized that they(the shard) needed to do something or face extermination. The shard casualty rate among the original vessels is around 50% after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookish Ocelot she/her Posted October 31, 2019 Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 So this makes Wisdom, Endowment, Honor, Odium, Cultivation, Ruin, Harmony, Dominion, Devotion, Autonomy, and Ambition. That's 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 he/him Posted October 31, 2019 Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 So if the newly confirmed Wisdom Shard invested on a planet then how would that Shard manifest in a magic system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SzethIsBadAsHell he/him Posted October 31, 2019 Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said: So if the newly confirmed Wisdom Shard invested on a planet then how would that Shard manifest in a magic system? No one knows , but I would bet it would have cloaking powers that allowed you to avoid detection. Regenerative Type magic that allowed you to survive is another good tool . And finally precognitive or remote viewing is another aspect I would think would be in the aspects of a shard of wisdom. Obfuscate, Regenerate , and Fortune ( foretelling ) would be useful powers to a Shard that just wants to Survive. As always it’s just speculation, I have no personal knowledge , just guessing what i would expect ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted October 31, 2019 Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 The intent of a shard effects the way in which a magic system is accessed, not the powers themselves. A "wisdom" shard may need some form of knowledge to gain access, or some level of awareness and judgement for "prudence" but the powers could be anything. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted October 31, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 8 hours ago, Calderis said: The intent of a shard effects the way in which a magic system is accessed, not the powers themselves. A "wisdom" shard may need some form of knowledge to gain access, or some level of awareness and judgement for "prudence" but the powers could be anything. Agreed. Im guessing a Wisdom Shard would access it via some sort of Cognitive construct, as opposed to the spiritual Bonds of Roshar or the physical Metals of Scadrial. Im not coming up with any ideas that seem unique for the Cosmere, sadly. We've seen Magic Symbols in various forms thanks to Sel, everything from Magic Runes and Symbol systems to Magic Martial Arts to Magic Bone Branding. We's seen Art-based illusion magic with Lightweaving, and Color Magic with Awakening. Your idea about possessing specific Knowledge to access the magic seems like a cool idea to me. Im picturing nugget's of Secret Knowledge that can be passed from person to person like it was a memory in an UnSealed Coppermind, that give you access to the magics so long as you possess them (kinda like the Ashyn Sickness magic), basically Intellectual Skills that can be passed rather than an infection. For the sake of limitations and realmic continuity, Id guess that there is degradation when you hold and/or pass it, so there would be loss if it's not used, but maybe you can increase it's power through practice and pass that like a communicable specialization. Ok, that was a tangent, but fun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted October 31, 2019 Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 Assuming Wisdom/Prudence is a shard, I am surprised it did not make it higher on Odium's to kill list considering he went for Ambition due to its intent. I would not want to leave someone whose entire intent is regarding figuring out ways to out maneuver everyone else. That is not the kind of entity you want to give time to think things through, otherwise you get the stereotypical "because Batman". That Batman wins because he figured you would have done that, so has a plan to counter it. Then again, maybe that means Odium tried, but Wisdom/Prudence already out thought him to escape and focus on survival (like was mentioned) and now that Odium is trapped on Braize, it is thinking through how to end him for good? Oh! Oh! Here is a total tinfoil had theory. What if Wisdom/Prudence is the ultimate bad guy of the Cosmere? Working in the background, out thinking everyone till the moment is right? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger he/him Posted October 31, 2019 Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 30 minutes ago, Pathfinder said: Oh! Oh! Here is a total tinfoil had theory. What if Wisdom/Prudence is the ultimate bad guy of the Cosmere? Working in the background, out thinking everyone till the moment is right? Yikes! 30 minutes ago, Pathfinder said: Assuming Wisdom/Prudence is a shard, I am surprised it did not make it higher on Odium's to kill list considering he went for Ambition due to its intent He may have wanted to but Prudence would have backed up pretty quickly. Leaving the two of them to duke it out. That is the kind of thing that shard does. Afterward he might not have been able to track down prudence or figured it would be better to clear the field as apposed to crack that nut. Ohh my own theory. Prudence lives in a fortress world of some kind that was created or adapted for shard defense purposes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teknopathetic he/him Posted October 31, 2019 Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 I was pretty sure people were reading this wrong. Brandon did not confirm prudence or wisdom. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elegy he/him Posted October 31, 2019 Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 Yeah, people are maybe getting a tad too excited about this one. Basically, all that's confirmed is the existence of a Shard that's got something to do with knowledge/wisdom/that whole subset of concepts. It's never been that unlikely that there would be one of that kind among the remaining 6, and the actual Intent could be a lot of things. That said, Brandon confirming Hoid refering to a Shard there is really something. I always thought he meant Battar (as the Herald of the Order with wisdom as its Divine Attribute), but now that one's completely unambiguous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted October 31, 2019 Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 Which is the reason this thread is written the way that it is. Talking about potential magic in light of what a shard of this idea could be and such. There is confirmation of a Shard. There isn't confirmation of the exact name of that shard. The confusion isn't what's just been stated. It's thinking that these "names" are believed as concrete. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SzethIsBadAsHell he/him Posted November 1, 2019 Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 19 hours ago, Calderis said: The intent of a shard effects the way in which a magic system is accessed, not the powers themselves. A "wisdom" shard may need some form of knowledge to gain access, or some level of awareness and judgement for "prudence" but the powers could be anything. As much as I have read Sanderson I never realized this but since you mentioned this and I think about it your right . Like Lift who eats to gain stormlight due to her boon from Cultivation . Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthos he/him Posted November 1, 2019 Report Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) I wonder if this can tie into my theory on the remaining shards. Wisdom is listed as one but with the caviate for all of them that it is a possible name referencing a certain idea rather than the exact shard. Honour is, I think, a shard which points to the others with the different orders, and so Honour and this Wisdomesque shard together could be either Wisdom or Prudence via the Elsecallers, who are wise and careful, or the Prudence shard could be Pragmatism. [Edit] To clear up some potential ambiguity, what I mean is that the shard that is similar to Wisdom but isn't Wisdom could become the Shard of Wisdom if it combined with Honour, just as Preservation and Honour would be Protection, and a hypothetical Vengeance Shard could become Justice with Honour, each matching an Order. Edited November 1, 2019 by Ixthos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fractalfire Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 Can anyone think of any other names for the so-called "wisdom" shard? I'm thinking (if more associated with prudence): - Discernment - Insight - Perspicacity - Sagacity If more associated with intellect: - Ingenuity - Acumen Although its possible a more archaic word is being used, as with "Odium." - Sophia - Gnosis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixthos he/him Posted November 3, 2019 Report Share Posted November 3, 2019 @Fractalfire I theorised that Odium and the Wisdom or similar shard form a block of four detailing about how one thinks, with Odium being the emotional in-the-now method of thinking. The Wisdom shard could be then the logical looking-to-the-future shard. So if Odium is about how you are feeling right now and so acting on that and trying to shape the future to match how you feel in the present, this shard would be the exact opposite, being cool and rational and taking a much longer view. If it is in the same block then using the same naming system as Odium could make sense, though other possibilities include Logic or Foresight or Rationality, or similar meaning archaic words. (The other two in the block would be an emotional looking-to-the-future shard of "Dreams" or positive emotional heart-thinking, and a logical in-the-now shard of "Pragmatism", interested in the immediate future rather than the distant. Just some possibilities.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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