Karger Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 Just now, Elwynn said: What you're responding to is not speculation. What you're doing is speculation. Rampant speculation. My point is that their are a verity of possible scenarios in which Odium or some kind of voidish entity escapes Roshar IE speculation can't prove or demonstrate much of anything. Claiming that Odium will be killed or imprisoned because he is the villain and because our heroes have to survive another decade does not make sense when reading Sanderson's work. 4 minutes ago, Elwynn said: You're skeptical of a literal, straight answered wob because of...this? You want to dismiss wobs because it's ever so slightly possible(and in no way logically consistent) that a torn off piece of Odium's power, severely weakened, can co-opt another full Shard's investiture and then attack and pressure Harmony (2 shards!) all within 15 years? This is...out there. Harmony is powerful but as shards go his dual nature makes actions difficult. This puts him at a sever disadvantage in combat. 3 minutes ago, Elwynn said: not sure what else this wob is supposed to 'answer His corruption is black not red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 59 minutes ago, Elwynn said: I actually had this argument included in my reply but like you say, it's impossible to know if Odium gets free after book 5. I don't believe it for a second but I could see the argument being made that he's the big bad of the cosmere. Agreed though. Fair enough. Whether he will prove to be the big bad of the Cosmere is still open (I personally think he's going to prove to be the stooge of Autonomy, who will end up being the true big bad), but he is definately the big bad of the Stormlight Archive, so unless the back half is going to abandon Roshar and become a worldhopping story (a This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rulesing awesome proposition, now that I think about it) I dont think he's going to be able to escape at the half-way point. It's been very strongly implied (by odium and I want to say WOB as well?) that he is now too invested in the planet to be able to leave without causing catastrophic damage as he rips his Invested essence back out of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, Quantus said: It's been very strongly implied (by odium and I want to say WOB as well?) that he is now too invested in the planet to be able to leave without causing catastrophic damage as he rips his Invested essence back out of the world. And he would care why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwynn Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 37 minutes ago, Karger said: My point is that their are a verity of possible scenarios in which Odium or some kind of voidish entity escapes Roshar IE speculation can't prove or demonstrate much of anything. Of course not. Speculating is done with no evidence or support. Which is what you're doing when saying some small part of Odium is responsible for the red mist being red. There's much more logical evidence for what the red mist is and who represents it; which is also consistent with a very straightforward wob. 40 minutes ago, Karger said: Harmony is powerful but as shards go his dual nature makes actions difficult. This puts him at a sever disadvantage in combat. Goalposts. This has nothing to do with why the mist is red or who represents it. 41 minutes ago, Karger said: His corruption is black not red. Nightblood is destroying on all three realms, and the black smoke is investiture leaking. That is very different from a Shard (which NB isn't) co-opting or tweaking another Shard's investiture for their benefit, which is what the wob refers to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Karger said: And he would care why? It would leave him weaker than he is now, and would open him up to an attack from Cultivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Karger said: And he would care why? HE would not (assuming he'd already accomplished his goal of killing Cultivation, anyway). WE would because there wouldnt be much Roshar left to write about in books 6-10. Since we know some of the POV characters that will be featured in those books, I think it's a reasonably safe bet that the entire planet the character's live on will not be destroyed. Edited September 11, 2019 by Quantus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 18 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said: It would leave him weaker than he is now, and would open him up to an attack from Cultivation. This is a problem. I have full faith that Odium is capable of getting around it somehow. He is after all the most dangerous of the 16. 17 minutes ago, Quantus said: HE would not (assuming he'd already accomplished his goal of killing Cultivation, anyway). WE would because there wouldnt be much Roshar left to write about in books 6-10. Since we know some of the POV characters that will be featured in those books, I think it's a reasonably safe bet that the entirely planet the character's live on will not be destroyed. My point was that this is not an adequate reason for Odium to forgo leaving. Striker presented one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Karger said: This is a problem. I have full faith that Odium is capable of getting around it somehow. He is after all the most dangerous of the 16. My point was that this is not an adequate reason for Odium to forgo leaving. Striker presented one. You are speaking to Odium's in-world motivations which do not matter at all to the point I was making. Odium has already stated outright that he wants to leave and doesnt care what happens to the world when he does; by Watsonian reasoning there is nothing stopping him, sure. But by Doylistic logic (and WOB) we do know that the entire cast and setting of the story is not going to get nuked out of existence half-way through the story's timeline. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Quantus said: But by Doylistic logic (and WOB) we do know that the entire cast and setting of the story is not going to get nuked out of existence half-way through the story's timeline. True. Although it would be interesting if the back five were a post apocalyptic Roshar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, Karger said: True. Although it would be interesting if the back five were a post apocalyptic Roshar. Honestly, Id never considered it before this thread, but the idea that the Stormlight Archive looses Roshar and becomes a Worldhopping story is all kinds of intriguing. We know the Cosmere is intended to get there eventually, we know that SA was conceived with more inter-world connections than most cosmere stories (ie. all the Nalthis links), and we know Brandon LOVES to subvert expectations. Oooh, What If: The back half is set on Ashyn, to which the survivors of Roshar (human and singer alike) are forced to flee to following the Big Middle Event. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Quantus said: Oooh, What If: The back half is set on Ashyn, to which the survivors of Roshar (human and singer alike) are forced to flee to following the Big Middle Event. Maybe they supercharge the 10 oathgates and use them to move the 10 cities there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Karger said: Maybe they supercharge the 10 oathgates and use them to move the 10 cities there. Maybe those cities used to fly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Quantus said: Maybe those cities used to fly... Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Karger said: Sigh. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 44 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said: ? Outdated and repeatedly disproven theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Karger said: Outdated and repeatedly disproven theory. Hmm, seems like I missed an entire season of theorizing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 30 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said: Hmm, seems like I missed an entire season of theorizing... You did not miss anything except eventually a Brandon WoB smash(that is the academic term BTW). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted September 12, 2019 Report Share Posted September 12, 2019 18 hours ago, Quantus said: Honestly, Id never considered it before this thread, but the idea that the Stormlight Archive looses Roshar and becomes a Worldhopping story is all kinds of intriguing. We know the Cosmere is intended to get there eventually, we know that SA was conceived with more inter-world connections than most cosmere stories (ie. all the Nalthis links), and we know Brandon LOVES to subvert expectations. I mean, yeah? But also, Brandon has said that beyond Warbreaker (which was specifically designed to introduce Vasher and Nightblood - who were SA characters first), Stormlight is fairly self contained. I doubt we'll see anything substantial outside of the Rosharan system besides Nalthis, Hoid, and a few easter eggs. It's a bit too early for super worldhopping adventures, which is pretty much squarely in endgame cosmere territory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted September 12, 2019 Report Share Posted September 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Inky said: I mean, yeah? But also, Brandon has said that beyond Warbreaker (which was specifically designed to introduce Vasher and Nightblood - who were SA characters first), Stormlight is fairly self contained. I doubt we'll see anything substantial outside of the Rosharan system besides Nalthis, Hoid, and a few easter eggs. It's a bit too early for super worldhopping adventures, which is pretty much squarely in endgame cosmere territory. True, but we're talking about the back half of Stormlight, which if Im not mistaken is going to happen a good bit down the road in terms of overall cosmere publication timeline. We know there will be heaving worldhopping in Scadrial era4, and a decent chance at it playing a role in Era3. Besides that Roshar is really the only other one with established worldhopping with all the Shadesmar spren civilization and trade routes (and whatnot). Worldhopping is going to have to start playing a bigger role, if only to give a chance to establish its rules before things start to really get moving on endgame story lines. For the record Im not saying it's all that likely, but I do think it would be a very fun and interesting twist. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted September 12, 2019 Report Share Posted September 12, 2019 16 hours ago, Steel Inquisitive said: Hmm, seems like I missed an entire season of theorizing... Me too, I dont think Ive ever seen that particular thought before. 16 hours ago, Karger said: You did not miss anything except eventually a Brandon WoB smash(that is the academic term BTW). Cool, I hadnt heard the theory before, let alone a WOB addressing it. Do you have a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted September 12, 2019 Report Share Posted September 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Quantus said: Cool, I hadnt heard the theory before, let alone a WOB addressing it. Do you have a link? Try looking for some "Urithiru is a spaceship." related topics. You should find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted September 12, 2019 Report Share Posted September 12, 2019 40 minutes ago, Karger said: Try looking for some "Urithiru is a spaceship." related topics. You should find it. No luck. Do you have a link to the WOB that you mentioned? That's honestly what interests me more, if it shot the theories themselves down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted September 12, 2019 Report Share Posted September 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Quantus said: No luck. Do you have a link to the WOB that you mentioned? That's honestly what interests me more, if it shot the theories themselves down It will take me some time to check. I will message you when/if I find the correct WoB(s) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted September 12, 2019 Report Share Posted September 12, 2019 Just now, Karger said: It will take me some time to check. I will message you when/if I find the correct WoB(s) Awesome. I really appreciate it, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripheus23 Posted September 12, 2019 Report Share Posted September 12, 2019 Stormfather ain't no commie, folks, why ya think honorspren are blue? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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