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Quick Fix Game 39: Corruption in the Senate 2: Allomantic Boogaloo


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1 minute ago, Furamirionind said:

...I dont understand where you are getting that from. Drake is a villager. And therefore, we should vote on him for governor. The only people who dont want a villager Governor are the elims.

Because someone voting, after you made that statement, is likely voting in reaction to it. And the most likely reaction to a statement like that is that someone (who hasn't voted) doesn't want to be seen as elim. Who are the most likely people to not want to be seen as elim? Obviously elims. Because of this, I would be suspicious of anyone who voted for Drake after you have said this.

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6 minutes ago, Snipexe said:

Because someone voting, after you made that statement, is likely voting in reaction to it. And the most likely reaction to a statement like that is that someone (who hasn't voted) doesn't want to be seen as elim. Who are the most likely people to not want to be seen as elim? Obviously elims. Because of this, I would be suspicious of anyone who voted for Drake after you have said this.

Snipexe

Fine, you feel free to be suspicious of anyone that votes for Drake. I however, am trying to get a governor elected. I dont care who, as long as they are village. I dont care the reasoning everyone has to vote, but I do care that they do vote.

You, by saying this, are directly opposing electing a Governor. Which is something that should give the village an advantage over the elims.

So, you going to vote or not?

Edited by Furamirionind
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Just now, Furamirionind said:

Snipexe

Fine, you feel free to be suspicious of anyone that votes for Drake. I however, I am trying to get a governor elected. I dont care who, as long as they are village. I dont care the reasoning everyone has to vote, but I do care that they do vote.

You, by saying this, are directly opposing electing a Governor. Which is something that should give the village an advantage over the elims.

So, you going to vote or not?

Nope, and I'll take the hit, even if it means I get lynched.

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18 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

I explained why you should vote for Drake.

Please explain why everyone should not.

Ok, I think you are misunderstanding the point I am trying to make. I never said people should not vote for Drake. People can vote for whoever they would like. However, what I did say was that a statement like the one made above changes the motivation for voter to the point where I would become suspicious of those who do vote for Drake. The statement you made,

Quote

"Oh, and at this point, the only people who shouldnt be voting on Drake for Governor,  are the elims."

changes the way this vote is viewed. Instead of being an election based primarily on the candidate and their merits, it has become an opportunity for people to try and clear themselves, or at least point to their villager-ness because of this vote. That's the reasoning behind my points.

Yeah, so readers of this: Go ahead and vote for Drake, or whoever really you want to vote for. Be my guest. If you vote for Drake however, just keep the above in mind.

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1 minute ago, Snipexe said:

changes the way this vote is viewed. Instead of being an election based primarily on the candidate and their merits, it has become an opportunity for people to try and clear themselves, or at least point to their villager-ness because of this vote. That's the reasoning behind my points.

Yeah, so readers of this: Go ahead and vote for Drake, or whoever really you want to vote for. Be my guest. If you vote for Drake however, just keep the above in mind.

My question:

Does it matter?

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5 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

I am trying to motivate everyone to do a pro village action. Sure, it doesn't work for you. Will you please do it anyway and ignore my post? It's pro-village.

I understand it's pro-village, however you only need 8 more votes to get Drake elected, not counting you or Drake, (who hasn't voted, but I'm guessing will obviously vote for himself). I really doubt it will be that hard to get 8 people to make an obviously pro-village action. So at the current moment I am not going to vote for Drake, I'm sorry. This is up to change if you really need the votes later, but until then, I'm not planning on voting.

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While I whole-heartedly agree we need a governor, I don't have the same trust in Drake you have, @Furamirionind. Your reasoning that they'd have no reason to pass a ledger outside the elim circle is flawed. The reason to pass it outside is because if the team does include Drake, they were basically told they must or else. If there's another teammate we don't know about, passing it to them would reveal that hidden link.

I admit, the theory is unlikely, but I'm having a difficult time trusting any of you, Striker, or Drake at the moment.

I don't think voting for or against Drake is alignment indicative, as there would be plenty of reasonable villagers who just don't agree with clearing Drake. 

Hopefully I'll have some time today to look into people outside the main focus so far, such as @Haelbarde, @Hemalurgic Headshot, @Kidpen, and @Butt Ad Venture (especially for saying we should give up in electing a governor...)

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7 minutes ago, Elandera said:

The reason to pass it outside is because if the team does include Drake, they were basically told they must or else. If there's another teammate we don't know about, passing it to them would reveal that hidden link.

They had to, but they would need me to not complete the loop. To prevent that, they would need to kill me (actually, killing me tonight works too, just not as well), or they would need to fake a red claim on me.

Based on how mechanically unlikely it is that they are elims anyways, with neither me being dead, nor being accused, I'm willing to clear them. Striker and Bard could still be elims though.
If I am an elim, then so is Drake, which means so is Striker, which means so is Bard. That gives a 5-6 person elim team, depending on if you think Alv is evil or not. Possible, but even more unlikely.
If I am a villager, if Drake is an elim, Drake would be forced to take action against me.

See why he is hard cleared?

Edit:

Note: I do in fact think I am similarly hard cleared, but I know people don't like others arguing for their own villageness. xD

Edited by Furamirionind
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I'm actually more inclined to agree with Snipexe on this one - from a meta perspective, the level to which you're pushing for Drake's appointment is kind of mayorish - with the possibility of the game being less fun because of it. I don't mind voting on Drake, since I know they're a villager, but I feel like it could be crossing a line to push too hard for others to do the same. I know this is maybe hypocritical coming from me - I made a similar statement at the end of turn 3 to Drake about if Rae dies, but I was disappointed with Burnt and El dying early, and didn't want Rae to die too by vote manipulation, as well as being a very spontaneous decision in the madness that was going on then. People play SE for all kinds of reasons, and focusing too hard on optimal play can do more harm than good.

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Okay, so I’m gonna vote on Drake for governor. I would’ve voted for him, regardless of what Fura said about it being a pro-villager action, anyway. Drake and Fura are the only players I completely trust right now. I soft trust Bard for clearing me when he could’ve pretended to scan me as elim.

And, Snip, I feel like you’re trying to oversell the whole “elims would vote for Drake as governor” thing way too much. By setting up that idea, and then not voting on Drake, you’re basically saying “look how village I am,” which is not what a villager would do, in my opinion. If they really thought the best move as villager would be to vote on Drake, they’d just do it. They wouldn’t think about the fact that they’d look like an elim for doing it. 

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5 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

And, Snip, I feel like you’re trying to oversell the whole “elims would vote for Drake as governor” thing way too much. By setting up that idea, and then not voting on Drake, you’re basically saying “look how village I am,” which is not what a villager would do, in my opinion. If they really thought the best move as villager would be to vote on Drake, they’d just do it. They wouldn’t think about the fact that they’d look like an elim for doing it. 

I may have, but I’m still going to stand by it.

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17 minutes ago, Young Bard said:

I'm actually more inclined to agree with Snipexe on this one - from a meta perspective, the level to which you're pushing for Drake's appointment is kind of mayorish - with the possibility of the game being less fun because of it. I don't mind voting on Drake, since I know they're a villager, but I feel like it could be crossing a line to push too hard for others to do the same. I know this is maybe hypocritical coming from me - I made a similar statement at the end of turn 3 to Drake about if Rae dies, but I was disappointed with Burnt and El dying early, and didn't want Rae to die too by vote manipulation, as well as being a very spontaneous decision in the madness that was going on then. People play SE for all kinds of reasons, and focusing too hard on optimal play can do more harm than good.

I mean, I've been mayoring all game... It's a bad habit of mine.

Personally, I took issue with what Snipexe was saying, which is why I was pushing so hard. He is saying Drake should be elected Governor(?), yet won't vote for him in protest... That's at least how I interpreted it.  I adamantly believe we should get a governor. It doesn't have to be Drake, but right now, Drake and myself are the two I'll support, and I think people will respond better to me pushing for Drake over myself.

Edit: Even though, statistically, I'm even less likely to be an elim than Drake is... xD

Edited by Furamirionind
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44 minutes ago, Furamirionind said:

They had to, but they would need me to not complete the loop. To prevent that, they would need to kill me (actually, killing me tonight works too, just not as well), or they would need to fake a red claim on me.

Or they could have been hoping for what's happening now. It's a rabbit hole, I admit, but one we have to at least consider.

Also, regarding false claiming elim/village reads. While the mechanics of the game do allow for that play to be more plausible, it's also still a very dangerous move. If their target is lynched and flips correctly with low percentage, or flips incorrectly but the percentage was high enough, that would still bring immediate suspicion down on the liar.

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4 minutes ago, Elandera said:

Or they could have been hoping for what's happening now. It's a rabbit hole, I admit, but one we have to at least consider.

Yes, they could have... But that is a big gamble. I made a big deal about what should happen, and I don't think they would assume I am going to go against it just because I can. They would be risking their entire elim team, on this one gambit, that even if we clear them now, we can always scan them later.

Elandera, why don't the two of us make a reads list. Lets see where everyone falls. I encourage everyone else to make one as well.

Spoiler

 

Village
Drake

Slight Village
Bard
Striker
Rae
Venture
Hael
Devotary

Neutral
Bugsy
Fifth
Shqueeves
Rath
Araris

Slight Elim
Kidpen
Snipexe
Elandera

 

 

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