Snipexe he/him Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Furamirionind said: ...I dont understand where you are getting that from. Drake is a villager. And therefore, we should vote on him for governor. The only people who dont want a villager Governor are the elims. Because someone voting, after you made that statement, is likely voting in reaction to it. And the most likely reaction to a statement like that is that someone (who hasn't voted) doesn't want to be seen as elim. Who are the most likely people to not want to be seen as elim? Obviously elims. Because of this, I would be suspicious of anyone who voted for Drake after you have said this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furamirionind Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Snipexe said: Because someone voting, after you made that statement, is likely voting in reaction to it. And the most likely reaction to a statement like that is that someone (who hasn't voted) doesn't want to be seen as elim. Who are the most likely people to not want to be seen as elim? Obviously elims. Because of this, I would be suspicious of anyone who voted for Drake after you have said this. Snipexe Fine, you feel free to be suspicious of anyone that votes for Drake. I however, am trying to get a governor elected. I dont care who, as long as they are village. I dont care the reasoning everyone has to vote, but I do care that they do vote. You, by saying this, are directly opposing electing a Governor. Which is something that should give the village an advantage over the elims. So, you going to vote or not? Edited August 8, 2019 by Furamirionind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snipexe he/him Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 Just now, Furamirionind said: Snipexe Fine, you feel free to be suspicious of anyone that votes for Drake. I however, I am trying to get a governor elected. I dont care who, as long as they are village. I dont care the reasoning everyone has to vote, but I do care that they do vote. You, by saying this, are directly opposing electing a Governor. Which is something that should give the village an advantage over the elims. So, you going to vote or not? Nope, and I'll take the hit, even if it means I get lynched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furamirionind Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Snipexe said: Nope, and I'll take the hit, even if it means I get lynched. I explained why you should vote for Drake. Please explain why everyone should not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snipexe he/him Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 18 minutes ago, Furamirionind said: I explained why you should vote for Drake. Please explain why everyone should not. Ok, I think you are misunderstanding the point I am trying to make. I never said people should not vote for Drake. People can vote for whoever they would like. However, what I did say was that a statement like the one made above changes the motivation for voter to the point where I would become suspicious of those who do vote for Drake. The statement you made, Quote "Oh, and at this point, the only people who shouldnt be voting on Drake for Governor, are the elims." changes the way this vote is viewed. Instead of being an election based primarily on the candidate and their merits, it has become an opportunity for people to try and clear themselves, or at least point to their villager-ness because of this vote. That's the reasoning behind my points. Yeah, so readers of this: Go ahead and vote for Drake, or whoever really you want to vote for. Be my guest. If you vote for Drake however, just keep the above in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furamirionind Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Snipexe said: changes the way this vote is viewed. Instead of being an election based primarily on the candidate and their merits, it has become an opportunity for people to try and clear themselves, or at least point to their villager-ness because of this vote. That's the reasoning behind my points. Yeah, so readers of this: Go ahead and vote for Drake, or whoever really you want to vote for. Be my guest. If you vote for Drake however, just keep the above in mind. My question: Does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snipexe he/him Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Furamirionind said: My question: Does it matter? To me: yes To everyone else: I would hope that it would, but will it. Likely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furamirionind Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 Just now, Snipexe said: To me: yes To everyone else: I would hope that it would, but will it. Likely not. I am trying to motivate everyone to do a pro village action. Sure, it doesn't work for you. Will you please do it anyway and ignore my post? It's pro-village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snipexe he/him Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, Furamirionind said: I am trying to motivate everyone to do a pro village action. Sure, it doesn't work for you. Will you please do it anyway and ignore my post? It's pro-village. I understand it's pro-village, however you only need 8 more votes to get Drake elected, not counting you or Drake, (who hasn't voted, but I'm guessing will obviously vote for himself). I really doubt it will be that hard to get 8 people to make an obviously pro-village action. So at the current moment I am not going to vote for Drake, I'm sorry. This is up to change if you really need the votes later, but until then, I'm not planning on voting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elandera she/her Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 While I whole-heartedly agree we need a governor, I don't have the same trust in Drake you have, @Furamirionind. Your reasoning that they'd have no reason to pass a ledger outside the elim circle is flawed. The reason to pass it outside is because if the team does include Drake, they were basically told they must or else. If there's another teammate we don't know about, passing it to them would reveal that hidden link. I admit, the theory is unlikely, but I'm having a difficult time trusting any of you, Striker, or Drake at the moment. I don't think voting for or against Drake is alignment indicative, as there would be plenty of reasonable villagers who just don't agree with clearing Drake. Hopefully I'll have some time today to look into people outside the main focus so far, such as @Haelbarde, @Hemalurgic Headshot, @Kidpen, and @Butt Ad Venture (especially for saying we should give up in electing a governor...) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furamirionind Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Elandera said: The reason to pass it outside is because if the team does include Drake, they were basically told they must or else. If there's another teammate we don't know about, passing it to them would reveal that hidden link. They had to, but they would need me to not complete the loop. To prevent that, they would need to kill me (actually, killing me tonight works too, just not as well), or they would need to fake a red claim on me. Based on how mechanically unlikely it is that they are elims anyways, with neither me being dead, nor being accused, I'm willing to clear them. Striker and Bard could still be elims though. If I am an elim, then so is Drake, which means so is Striker, which means so is Bard. That gives a 5-6 person elim team, depending on if you think Alv is evil or not. Possible, but even more unlikely. If I am a villager, if Drake is an elim, Drake would be forced to take action against me. See why he is hard cleared? Edit: Note: I do in fact think I am similarly hard cleared, but I know people don't like others arguing for their own villageness. xD Edited August 8, 2019 by Furamirionind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Young Bard he/him Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 I'm actually more inclined to agree with Snipexe on this one - from a meta perspective, the level to which you're pushing for Drake's appointment is kind of mayorish - with the possibility of the game being less fun because of it. I don't mind voting on Drake, since I know they're a villager, but I feel like it could be crossing a line to push too hard for others to do the same. I know this is maybe hypocritical coming from me - I made a similar statement at the end of turn 3 to Drake about if Rae dies, but I was disappointed with Burnt and El dying early, and didn't want Rae to die too by vote manipulation, as well as being a very spontaneous decision in the madness that was going on then. People play SE for all kinds of reasons, and focusing too hard on optimal play can do more harm than good. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ he/him Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 Okay, so I’m gonna vote on Drake for governor. I would’ve voted for him, regardless of what Fura said about it being a pro-villager action, anyway. Drake and Fura are the only players I completely trust right now. I soft trust Bard for clearing me when he could’ve pretended to scan me as elim. And, Snip, I feel like you’re trying to oversell the whole “elims would vote for Drake as governor” thing way too much. By setting up that idea, and then not voting on Drake, you’re basically saying “look how village I am,” which is not what a villager would do, in my opinion. If they really thought the best move as villager would be to vote on Drake, they’d just do it. They wouldn’t think about the fact that they’d look like an elim for doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snipexe he/him Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said: And, Snip, I feel like you’re trying to oversell the whole “elims would vote for Drake as governor” thing way too much. By setting up that idea, and then not voting on Drake, you’re basically saying “look how village I am,” which is not what a villager would do, in my opinion. If they really thought the best move as villager would be to vote on Drake, they’d just do it. They wouldn’t think about the fact that they’d look like an elim for doing it. I may have, but I’m still going to stand by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furamirionind Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Young Bard said: I'm actually more inclined to agree with Snipexe on this one - from a meta perspective, the level to which you're pushing for Drake's appointment is kind of mayorish - with the possibility of the game being less fun because of it. I don't mind voting on Drake, since I know they're a villager, but I feel like it could be crossing a line to push too hard for others to do the same. I know this is maybe hypocritical coming from me - I made a similar statement at the end of turn 3 to Drake about if Rae dies, but I was disappointed with Burnt and El dying early, and didn't want Rae to die too by vote manipulation, as well as being a very spontaneous decision in the madness that was going on then. People play SE for all kinds of reasons, and focusing too hard on optimal play can do more harm than good. I mean, I've been mayoring all game... It's a bad habit of mine. Personally, I took issue with what Snipexe was saying, which is why I was pushing so hard. He is saying Drake should be elected Governor(?), yet won't vote for him in protest... That's at least how I interpreted it. I adamantly believe we should get a governor. It doesn't have to be Drake, but right now, Drake and myself are the two I'll support, and I think people will respond better to me pushing for Drake over myself. Edit: Even though, statistically, I'm even less likely to be an elim than Drake is... xD Edited August 8, 2019 by Furamirionind 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikerEZ he/him Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 29 minutes ago, Snipexe said: I may have, but I’m still going to stand by it. Okay, then my vote’s staying on you then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elandera she/her Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 44 minutes ago, Furamirionind said: They had to, but they would need me to not complete the loop. To prevent that, they would need to kill me (actually, killing me tonight works too, just not as well), or they would need to fake a red claim on me. Or they could have been hoping for what's happening now. It's a rabbit hole, I admit, but one we have to at least consider. Also, regarding false claiming elim/village reads. While the mechanics of the game do allow for that play to be more plausible, it's also still a very dangerous move. If their target is lynched and flips correctly with low percentage, or flips incorrectly but the percentage was high enough, that would still bring immediate suspicion down on the liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snipexe he/him Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said: Okay, then my vote’s staying on you then. Fine by me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furamirionind Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Elandera said: Or they could have been hoping for what's happening now. It's a rabbit hole, I admit, but one we have to at least consider. Yes, they could have... But that is a big gamble. I made a big deal about what should happen, and I don't think they would assume I am going to go against it just because I can. They would be risking their entire elim team, on this one gambit, that even if we clear them now, we can always scan them later. Elandera, why don't the two of us make a reads list. Lets see where everyone falls. I encourage everyone else to make one as well. Spoiler Village Drake Slight Village Bard Striker Rae Venture Hael Devotary Neutral Bugsy FifthShqueeves Rath Araris Slight ElimKidpen Snipexe Elandera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snipexe he/him Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Furamirionind said: Elandera, why don't the two of us make a reads list. Lets see where everyone falls. I encourage everyone else to make one as well. Reveal hidden contents What do the italics mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furamirionind Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 Just now, Snipexe said: What do the italics mean? inactive/semi active. Bugsy also probably should have been italicized... Though in his case, there is probably just enough content to figure him out if he is an elim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathmaskal he/him Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Snipexe said: What do the italics mean? It probably means I haven't been posting/involved enough to get a good read on. :/ Sorry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snipexe he/him Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Furamirionind said: inactive/semi active. Bugsy also probably should have been italicized... Though in his case, there is probably just enough content to figure him out if he is an elim. Ok, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furamirionind Posted August 8, 2019 Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 1 minute ago, Rathmaskal said: It probably means I haven't been posting/involved enough to get a good read on. :/ Sorry. : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Joe in the Bush Posted August 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2019 Oh, oops, I copy/pasted the wrong item section. No one bought any items yesterday, so both daggers are still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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