not a prank Alleyverse website

[Nohadon he/him]

I'm personally supportive of the idea of a personalised website (even though I impulse-voted no. Whoops, I have no idea how to change it with my mod powers) But we would have to go about this the right way.

Here are some points that have been made:
1. By being on the 17th Shard, people are more likely to see the subforum then if we are on our own seperate website
2. Threads, PM's, characters and everything else would have to be moved over.
 

For point one, you know how the mistborn inquisition has links to it from the shard? Maybe something like that can happen for the alley verse (Like when you click on the mistborn RP in the RP forum, you get sent to the home page)

Moving PM's will be tricky. Especially if people want information from them to go over to the website.

Here's some pros I thought of on the fly.

- We can have well-built monetary system that makes sense and everyone can access without having to make large docs and micro-manage people.

- Characters can be properly documented even better then they are now. 

- Guilds can have there own section..

- We can divide threads into in character, out of character and each setting as well.

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

I voted Depends on Features.

13 hours ago, Voidus said:

One quick thought for people's consideration, we could potentially do away with guild PMs by having different access roles for different groups, and each guild could have its own subforum which isn't visible to those outside of the guild.

I like this, but guilds often have specialized PMs for different things - including 'front' PMs, for adding members they're not sure about or straight-up know are spies. Prime example? Light Alley. I also don't want to base someone's usefulness and what they can help with on an access role - how would these be given? Seniority? At the discretion of the guild's leader(s)?

11 hours ago, Snipexe said:

Also if this took place it would make sense to time it with an era change.

I agree.

11 hours ago, Snipexe said:

I don’t really feel like I could maintain a presence on both sites, and I would rather stay on the shard then the Alleyverse (no offense intended in any way)

This has been a slight worry of mine as well. If I have a whole new website to catch up on in addition to everything else on the Shard, I'm not sure I'll be able to do both - and I really want to.

6 hours ago, Nohadon said:

- We can have well-built monetary system that makes sense and everyone can access without having to make large docs and micro-manage people.

I do like the thought of having Chrysts listed somewhere easier, though I'm not sure how it would work, especially for guild accounts and the like.

As for the PM/thread problem, I can see how it would be annoying to copy it down manually, though copy-paste is there as a last resort.

What are the advertising rules on the Shard, exactly?

[MacThorstenson he/him]

15 minutes ago, AonEne said:

I like this, but guilds often have specialized PMs for different things - including 'front' PMs, for adding members they're not sure about or straight-up know are spies. Prime example? Light Alley. I also don't want to base someone's usefulness and what they can help with on an access role - how would these be given? Seniority? At the discretion of the guild's leader(s)?

These would probably be given by guild leaders if we can figure out a way to get it to work. 

Just like how guild leaders control membership in higher up PMs, they would control which level of content people could see. 

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

51 minutes ago, MacThorstenson said:

These would probably be given by guild leaders if we can figure out a way to get it to work. 

Just like how guild leaders control membership in higher up PMs, they would control which level of content people could see. 

Okay, I do think that's slightly better; then at least it's a person and not just programming deciding.

[+Ark1002]

16 hours ago, Voidus said:

One quick thought for people's consideration, we could potentially do away with guild PMs by having different access roles for different groups, and each guild could have its own subforum which isn't visible to those outside of the guild.

Yes, that works well. Dragonmount has that system, and it works well. You can even rank within the subforum, for things like the Ghostblood Council.

[MacThorstenson he/him]

2 hours ago, Ark1002 said:

Yes, that works well. Dragonmount has that system, and it works well. You can even rank within the subforum, for things like the Ghostblood Council.

Yeah that’s what I suggested earlier, the only problem would be that this would need to be customized for every guild, but that’s not that big of an issue. 

[Vargo Seldon he/him]

I like this idea a lot.  The doing away with PMs would be nice, but PMs can also be useful for different things.  Like a message between irl friends, or a quick chat about something.  

Another thing.  Chrysts can be more organized in the new system.  Sort of like reputation.  So everyone can see you chryst amount when you post or on your profile.  So transactions can happen between characters, or something of the like.  

 

[Archer he/him]

I’ve been ghosting this forum for a while, but this thread seemed momentous enough to be warrant commenting upon publicly. I’ll preface my remarks by saying that one of my life philosophies is to avoid shooting down harmless ideas/activities if enough people are excited about them. I think this is a viable proposal. We have several technologically competent people among us, which is great. (Someone's got to keep an eye on Voidus to stop him from using a .au ccTLD, right?) If we chose to do this, I have confidence that a decent product could be created and maintained.

So, since I believe this can be done, the million-dollar question becomes should it be done?

The two main supporting arguments I’ve seen mentioned so far are that a new website would provide additional space and customizability. Others have mentioned additional features that they think would be beneficial, all of which I think are interesting ideas. Other pros include:

• Independence. The site could be freed from the Shard’s restrictions (posting and spoiler rules, for example), Sanderson focus, hierarchy (we could appoint our own mods), and limitations on growth (as presently only Sharders can participate in the Alleyverse). Additionally, as the site would exclusively focus on the RP, the distractions of the Shard would be hidden.
• Increased participation: For a brief period, during our initial ‘we’ve got a website!!!!!’ public celebration phase, I expect we’ll see a modest increase in participation as people’s curiosities are piqued. A similar phenomenon occurs during era changes.

Conversely, there are cons are well:

• Cost: Beyond money, running a website is also a significant time commitment.
• Participation barrier: Our potential lack of visibility (if we can’t advertise in intro threads and our threads stop showing up on the Recent sidebars) and requirement that another account be created may discourage people from joining. Additionally, those people who are involved in multiple RPs, and traditionally sift through all of their messages and notifications at once, may find it inconvenient to have to log into a separate account to see Alleyverse ones. Furthermore, once we’re out of sight, if we become inactive, it is less likely that enough people will notice us and attempt to revive the community.
• Small guild discouragement. Many small guilds start out in PMs. If we don’t have them, we will have to either encourage people to create guilds publicly or give everyone who asks a subforum and rank to get started in, even if they, for example, only have two members. Given the amount of start-up failures, that could get out of hand quickly. Established guilds could operate as usual, but it would be hard to make new ones. On this subject, the decisions about who gets a subforum, who gets ranks, and who is a guild’s leader (leadership challenges happen) are going to be contentious.

When I was jotting down ideas about what having a website would mean for the RP, a few general implications jumped out. These aren’t pros or cons per se, more like general things to consider.

• Potential attitude shift: The Shard has two main ways of regulating behaviour. Firstly, we have an upvote system in place to encourage quality posting. Frankly, I’m not sure how effective it is now that you can’t downvote someone, so I don’t mind if the new site doesn’t have one. The more important thing is the threat of consequences. The reporting system is in place to give people a way to complain about activity, and the mods are there to administer punishment if there’s a problem. On the new site, that threat would be lesser. Instead of risking banishment from the entire Shard, you only risk being blocked from the Alleyverse RP. It could embolden people to be cockier.
• Identity confusion: The Shard is very strict about its ‘one account per person’ rule. The admins have the ability to check users’ locations to ensure honesty. If the new site didn’t have that, people could be tempted to make multiple accounts. Beyond intentional mischief, confusion could be accidentally created if people do not make their Shard and Alleyverse usernames match. Identity theft could then occur. To avoid this, I would like some form of user verification process and restrictions on name changes.
• Administration changes: Currently, our mini-mod team is very limited in what it can do. They can’t look in PMs, look at personal information, or get report notifications. Voidus has more capabilities, and I trust him to use them with discretion. But he’s only one man, and he lives in a poison-filled desert. If the site were set up so that he’s the sole administrator, we risk stagnation the next time he is hospitalized by a spider bite. If we gave increased authority to the mini-mods to run the site, we increase the amount of responsibilities they have. It’s a delicate balance to strike, one that’s important to get right because the buck would stop at them, unless other members of the Shard admin team sign on to this venture.
• Altered relationship with the Shard: I think that the ideal relationship would be one like the Mistborn RPG has. I haven’t spent a lot of time over there, but from what I understand, it runs like an extension of the Shard, with the same rules and leaders. But once we’re independent, the way we operate could change. That then begs questions about whether advertising our RP is allowed, but that’s up to the overlords to discuss.
• Subforum relabelling: I expect that if we chose to migrate, this subforum would be wither hidden or moved to the Inactive zone. This would obviously decrease our visibility.  

Another implication is that the setup would be different (obviously). This could mean that some features that are currently accessible to us would be unavailable. If we got a new website, there are some features that I would really like to have, so, as Kidpen put it, the change isn’t a downgrade.

My Wishlist:

• Notifications: I would like some way to follow specific threads, so I can focus on only the areas I’m involved in and can be alerted of new activity.
• Private messaging capability: I would be fine with having public chat forums protected by a rank system, but I have enough short, direct conversations with people both in and out of my guild that I would miss PMs if we didn’t have them. I don’t want limitations on my ability to directly talk to members of other guilds if I want to. If this is a deal breaker, I’m fine with using Discord as a substitute, but PMs are preferred.
• Swear filter: One like the Shard’s would help keep the site family friendly.
• Threads: We need the standard suite of subforums and threads in order to operate. Users need to be able to post text and images. The usual stuff.
• Rules: For legal reasons, a disclaimer needs to be acknowledged by new users. Also, the expectations for behaviour need to be clearly stated.
• A Gallery and Character Database: These would be nice to have, if possible. I’m picturing something like our wiki.
• It’s got to be pretty: If the site isn’t visually appealing and easy to read, I will complain. Loudly. Don’t tell Chaos, but I don’t like the Mistborn RPG colour scheme. It’s too dark and gloomy.

I know that that’s basically a list of features the Shard has. That’s because I like our current situation. Personally, I’m content with what we’ve got. However, I recognize that there are other options out there, and I’m open to hearing about them. I’m squarely in the ‘it depends what features it has’ camp; I’ll withhold judgement until I see what features Voidus proposes. But, to quote Mac, ‘if we wanted to make ourselves a forum, [and it] ended up literally being the same thing as this but under a different domain name, then I [will] not support it.’

However, even if we don’t choose to move to a new website, we can still benefit from this brainstorming session. People are making good suggestions. Some of them could be modified and implemented here. That’s something to keep in mind while you read through these posts.

Thanks for your time.

[Sherlock Holmes he/him]

Living up to your insanity, Archer, as always.

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

My brain just died. I agree with almost everything you just said, Archer.

[Silva]

I just signed on to find this discussion going. Thank you for saving me the effort of thinking everything through, Archer.

[Kidpen he/him]

29 minutes ago, Archer said:

Don’t tell Chaos, but I don’t like the Mistborn RPG colour scheme. It’s too dark and gloomy. 

I almost said this too but then decided not too.

I agree with Archer on all counts. As always, everything he says is what I think but phrased and condensed much much better.

[AonEne he/him in an enby way]

3 minutes ago, Kidpen said:

As always, everything he says is what I think but phrased and condensed much much better.

Right? He's just a super-smart telepath.

[Gancho Libre he/him]

We may need another holiday.

[Kidpen he/him]

22 minutes ago, Gancho Libre said:

We may need another holiday.

What day is Subforum day again?

[Vargo Seldon he/him]

I think that the Mistborn RPG has struck the delicate balance that we should have.  Perhaps our new site, if we get it, could be a bit more extensive, much like the shard itself.  Archer had a great way of putting it.  There are more cons than pros, but we can balance that out if we find the right combination.  For instance, like the Mistborn RPG, we could have a link in the RP section.  It would introduce a new hassle, and casual sharders would be discouraged, but the added freedom is a definite benefit.  

I'm behind this idea about 99%, again, depends on what features it has.

[+Sorana she/her]

8 hours ago, Archer said:

It’s got to be pretty: If the site isn’t visually appealing and easy to read, I will complain. Loudly.

I'd like to add another point here.

If possible I'd like the page to be mobile friendly. If I was forced to use my computer, my activity would be close to zero, tbh.

[MacThorstenson he/him]

1 minute ago, Sorana said:

If possible I'd like the page to be mobile friendly. If I was forced to use my computer, my activity would be close to zero, tbh.

This is certainly true from my part as well.

I cannot, in good conscience, condemn anyone to having to use their phone to access a non mobile friendly site. 

[xinoehp512 he/him]

Does this website have the same emailing capability as the 17th shard website?

That is, will it email me if someone responds to my post?

[MacThorstenson he/him]

54 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Does this website have the same emailing capability as the 17th shard website?

That is, will it email me if someone responds to my post?

We don’t know yet. We are currently looking into what is possible and plausible. It could not even happen, but this is for seeing what we should be lookin for. 

[xinoehp512 he/him]

It has a field for email, so maybe. What I'm really interested in is if I go the other way; email a post to the site and have it post to the thread.

[MacThorstenson he/him]

19 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

It has a field for email, so maybe. What I'm really interested in is if I go the other way; email a post to the site and have it post to the thread.

Just want to clarify this, the forum that is currently up under the domain alleyverse.com is not the forum we will be using. 

It may  be a base for what is eventually our new site, but right now it is not, and as of now we have no plans to transfer over to that site. 

[+Ark1002]

On 4/4/2019 at 0:44 PM, Archer said:

Don’t tell Chaos, but I don’t like the Mistborn RPG colour scheme. It’s too dark and gloomy.

*Sharpens spikes*

[Furamirionind]

While I love the idea, (and personally enjoy programming and website creation,) the amount of difficulty it would be to initially create a viable product I think would be significant.  It wouldn't make sense to move over to a new website until the product is finished, as this website is pretty good on its own I think.  The additional potential benefits, while awesome, would not make up for the work in my opinion.

While cost was mentioned by someone before, I haven't seen much discussion about that.  It would require a constant source of funding, and perhaps someone here would be willing to sponsor the website, however, at some point that person will move away, and someone else will need to take that up.  A quick google search tells me it is $10-15 a year, while not expensive, this is purely for the domain.  Depending on the path used to create the website, there could be additional fees, or an additional monthly cost for the website manager.

If we would want to go the cheapest route, that would give us more customization options, however would make everything more work.  Having to program most of the website from scratch will also have a tendency towards making things look block-y and aesthetically unappealing.  Using free website creation tools also seriously limits the customization we are allowed.

Anyway, I would love to have a new website, and would like to volunteer to help create it if we want to pursue it.  However, I suspect the amount of work (and or funding) that would go into it would prove to be too much to be sustainable.

EDIT: I am not voting, as I am indifferent.  I want a new website, though I suspect it is not for the best.
Edit: Edit: never mind, I will just say "no option" : )

Edited April 10, 2019 by Furamirionind

[+Ark1002]

Wow, Fura, the first no opinion