The Endpoint of Kaladin's story

[+TheFoxQR]

Was just going through the coppermind recently, and something struck me regarding the names of the books for the Stormlight Archives. I know they are all in-world books, but what if there's more going on in there?

Let's take a look at The Words of Radiance. It's the Lightweaver book (Light - Radiance), and the in-world WoR is an informational book containing lots of half-information on the KR, written 200 years after the Recreance. What do they end up doing? Mistaking the Parsh as Voidbringers because of incomplete information, remapping the Shattered plains to figure out where the Oathgate is without knowing all its purpose, and so on. Perhaps most importantly, it is also the book where we find out the truth about Oaths (the words of radiance) and what they are and how they fit into the magic system, through Shallan and Kaladin. And Dalinar formally swears in. The title then perfectly describes the book, and how it connects with the focus character.

Take Oathbringer, for example. It's the Bondsmith book, and its Dalinar's book, and it's the story of why and how he became a Bondsmith, or a bringer of Oaths, so it fits that way. Symbolically, Dalinar has always been an Oathbringer. Under Gavilar, wherever he went, he brought the Oaths as an opposite of freedom. If Dalinar was coming for you, you either swore to be Highprince under Gavilar or ended up dying. By the time of the main story, he is Oathbringer because he brings widespread awareness and the knowledge of Oaths, and provides an open platform for people willing to swear the Oath of a Knight Radiant. Again, the title of the book directly describes the theme of the book, and how it connects with the focus character.

What does this tell us about the Way of Kings being Kaladin's book?

• It's the Windrunner book, the Order associated with Jezrein, the King.
• It's named the Way of Kings. The context of the in-world Way of Kings is how Nohadon learnt to be a better king by taking the hard road and walking to Uruthiru. He argues he got to see the world in first person, and got to experience what it's like to actually be there, right alongside his people, on an equal footing with them. Kaladin has been through the bottom-most dregs of Alethi society, and still carries the brands on his forehead. He was born a dark eyes, who fought and earned his place as a light eyes, had this taken from him, and earned a real shardblade. One could argue he is going through that same ordeal, just a lot less literally and more symbolically. It is the Way of Kings to walk where those that follow them would walk, and understand what that walking is all about.
• And then there's this Death Rattle that's been bugging me for ages: "He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!" Since there's only really one "spear" in SA so far, that's pretty much Kaladin. The Tower and The Crown is definitely Kholin. And last of all - Elhokar Kholin died right in front of him, and that's a major event in his journey. Technically, this could also refer to Kaladin saving Dalinar at the Battle of the Tower. But my suspicion is this foreshadows a moment when Kaladin picks up the Kholin banner in one hand, and Sylspear in another - it foreshadows the moment he chooses to accept the fallen title of a Kholin king and becomes King in his own right. Notice, Jasnah is a queen, so she can just be put in a position where she can't do that anymore. Or maybe they end up together. I don't know. Maybe the fallen title is Jezrien's. And maybe the spear doesn't refer to Kaladin at all, but to Oroden, or to someone else entirely. Again, I don't know, I'm just speculating.
• Kaladin doesn't have a last name, only Stormblessed - indicating he may be able to pick up the Kholin name. Kaladin Kholin does have a nice ring to it. The Stormblessed title itself could be foreshadowing - the current head of the Kholin branch is bonded to the Stormfather.
• Jezrien, the Windrunner patron's spot on the Heralds just opened up.

My point being, what if Sanderson's pulling a Mistborn on us? What if Kaladin's end goal is to either take up the Kholin Banner and become king, or take up Jezrein's spot as a Herald? Maybe both? Maybe none. There's two more books to go... and he has two more Oaths to take. All I'm sure of is that big things are in store for him.

 

P.S. - what did you guys think about that death rattle?

 

Edit: reformatting and rewriting a bit.

Edited April 1, 2019 by TheFoxQR

[Inky]

Kaladin becoming a Herald is a very bad idea. We've seen from so many angles why the Oathpact was a dumb idea

[+TheFoxQR]

5 minutes ago, Inky said:

Kaladin becoming a Herald is a very bad idea. We've seen from so many angles why the Oathpact was a dumb idea

Not saying it's a good idea. The bad idea was mostly just sending in the same people, essentially putting all the burden on a select few. But we know it still exists. If someone does end up with Honor, they could theoretically expand it, so that the title of Herald could be passed on. Or change its very nature. There's lots of different solutions there, if someone was only there to iterate on the idea.

Edited March 31, 2019 by TheFoxQR

[Chromium Compounder]

Before Oathbringer when we learned more about the heralds I thought kaladin would end up becoming a herald.  I could still see that happen, but honestly I think I’d rather see him either take up Honor or pull a Sazed and take up both Honor and Odium, becoming a shard that balances the passion of Odium with oaths. Not sure what it would be called though, and I don’t think he currently has enough connection to odium to be able to take it up.

I know everyone keeps saying that if someone takes up Honor it’s going to be Dalinar, but I don’t think so.  I don’t think he could be Honor. I could see him taking up Ishar’s position as Herald of wisdom, but not Honor.

[+Invocation]

1 hour ago, Chromium Compounder said:

I don’t think he currently has enough connection to odium to be able to take it up.

I think he quite readily could take up Odium. He's visited the heights of emotions on the battlefield, the anger to protect. He's been laid low, depressed and guilt-ridden over his inability to save the ones he cares about and ready to poison himself. He's seen the end of the road with hatred and turned away from it, he's turned his guilt on to other people, both of those subjects being the lighteyes, and is learning. He's not an embittered person, but he has been able to see side of things that would allow him to take up Odium. Mistborn HoA spoilers:

Spoiler

In the same way that Sazed's descent into depression, anger, and sullenness allowed him to Connect to Ruin enough to become Harmony, Kaladin has done with Odium.

 

[RShara]

Odium isn't Passion, darn it. And also, renewing the Oathpact is a very bad idea.

 

 

[SwordNimiForPresident]

I really can't see Kaladin, AKA the guy that broke his oaths and almost killed his spren in WoR, becoming Honor. That being said, I can't see anyone becoming Honor. I think the end game of SA is going to be that the Shard's power is left with the Bondsmith spren and accessed, through the Nahel bond with those spren, in a much more limited way.

I agree that restoring the Oathpact would be a bad idea, and I would also add that it is likely impossible while the enemy has Jezrien's soul trapped in that dagger.

I hope Jasnadin is not a thing, I hate the idea of them as a couple. If I had to chose between more books with them as a couple, and no more books, I would choose no more books.

[+TheFoxQR]

30 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

That being said, I can't see anyone becoming Honor. I think the end game of SA is going to be that the Shard's power is left with the Bondsmith spren and accessed, through the Nahel bond with those spren, in a much more limited way.

I mean, that's a church with a literal Holy See. And the Bishops are all Paladins. Sign me the HIFL up.

Edited April 1, 2019 by TheFoxQR

[Karger]

1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I hope Jasnadin is not a thing, I hate the idea of them as a couple. If I had to chose between more books with them as a couple, and no more books, I would choose no more books.

Agreed although I do think that they could have an amazing working dynamic. 

Reverence for life debate for the win!

Edited April 1, 2019 by Karger

[+Invocation]

2 hours ago, RShara said:

Odium isn't Passion, darn it

If this was in response to my input, see below. If not, pardon the misunderstanding and have a good day!

Odium isn't Passion, that much is very true. But Rayse wants to be. This could partially facilitate a Connection between them when combined with Kaladin's hatred that made up a solid chunk of his identity and continues to do so lending the final push into Ascending.

[RShara]

16 minutes ago, Invocation said:

If this was in response to my input, see below. If not, pardon the misunderstanding and have a good day!

Odium isn't Passion, that much is very true. But Rayse wants to be. This could partially facilitate a Connection between them when combined with Kaladin's hatred that made up a solid chunk of his identity and continues to do so lending the final push into Ascending.

It's more a general statement for the room.

[Chromium Compounder]

3 hours ago, RShara said:

Odium isn't Passion, darn it. 

 

I actually disagree.  I think that he is a force of passion, just as Ruin was a force of change (sazed calls it that at the end of HoA). I explain it more fully here: 

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Chromium Compounder

[RShara]

7 minutes ago, Chromium Compounder said:

I actually disagree.  I think that he is a force of passion, just as Ruin was a force of change (sazed calls it that at the end of HoA). I explain it more fully here: 

 

Brandon's basically confirmed that Rayse is lying to himself and everyone else when he claims to be Passion.

 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

In universe, all the intents and charts and names, who names them? Do they name themselves?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

I have kind of imagined this is one of those things that they certainly have influence over. But obviously Odium thinks that he's named something other than what he is, and I feel like these are intrinsic things that the sixteen all knew. Like, "I am missing this part of me, it is this." And it was less we went around the names more like this is just what it is. And various shards are resisting that, but the others are all like this is what you represent. 

Billy Todd, Moderator [PENDING REVIEW]

Follow-up question there. Would the entity that we call Odium refer to itself as Odium when it's honest with itself?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Ehhh, I don't think Odium is capable of being honest with himself. [laughter] There are times where Odium has called himself Odium. That is more out of convenience and the fact that everyone calls you by a name. But Odium is determined to change that perception. 

Billy Todd, Moderator [PENDING REVIEW]

So, does he genuinely believe in characterizing himself as Passion?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes. Part of him does.

Billy Todd, Moderator [PENDING REVIEW]

Has he always ever been Odium since the Shattering?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes.

JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018)

 

[Scion of the Mists]

15 hours ago, TheFoxQR said:

• Kaladin doesn't have a last name, only Stormblessed - indicating he may be able to pick up the Kholin name. Kaladin Kholin does have a nice ring to it. The Stormblessed title itself could be foreshadowing - the current head of the Kholin branch is bonded to the Stormfather.

Kaladin could for sure pick Kholin as his surname:

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

What's Kaladin's last name?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Kaladin doesn't have a last name because, in Alethkar, your last name is your House name. He is vacillating on what his House name would be, everyone just calls him Kaladin Stormblessed. There's a realistic expectation that if he wanted to be a Kholin, he could be a Kholin, if he wanted to adopt that as his own House name instead of having a different one.

But right now he's just called Kaladin Stormblessed.

Skyward Houston signing (Nov. 19, 2018)

[+robardin]

16 hours ago, RShara said:

Brandon's basically confirmed that Rayse is lying to himself and everyone else when he claims to be Passion.

But even that could be considered consistent with his Shardic Intent, eh?

It's been mentioned a few times that Rayse "wished to become" this particular Shard, and that one of the reasons he Splintered instead of absorbing the Shards of the several other Vessels he's killed is because he doesn't want to change that Intent, which he feels "matches him perfectly". And yet, we have it from a WoB that he's very essentially lying even to himself about that Intent.

"He bears the weight of God's own divine hatred". And self-hatred is a thing, too.

[Subvisual Haze]

Kaladin's definitely becoming a cognitive shadow so he can spend eternity with Syl.

[+Invocation]

6 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Kaladin's definitely becoming a cognitive shadow so he can spend eternity with Syl.

I blame Kal's crippling attachment problems for that.