Adolin's actions at the end of WoR (spoilers)

[Dark Knight]

I think Adolin is in for a roller coaster ride which will make Kaladins seem like a walk in the park. I know Dalinar is penned in to be the Highprince Of War in the 4/5 book but it would be cool if Adolin ended up being the official Highprince of War. Although I don't want Dalinar to die! Lol

Adolin has already lost the thrill so that would make him falling to Odiums influence unlikely. He may get punished. Left out in the high storm or banished! It would be cool if he came across Eshonai while banished!

[kari-no-sugata]

With regards to "journey before destination" and what Adolin did, I agree that it doesn't fit very well. But we also have WoB that some KR orders would be ok with what Adolin did. That means that it can potentially fit if we consider it the right way - journey before destination isn't absolute and is still up to interpretation.

 

For example, if you had an Ideal like "I will destroy those corrupted by Odium" or so then it could work since Sadeas was totally a tool of Odium.

 

 

PS In the chapter when Adolin meets Sadeas just after meeting Shallan at the highstorm cafe (when they've separated into rooms for men and rooms for women) Adolin pretty much publicly threatens to kill Sadeas. We readers dont take it too seriously simply because we dont (yet) see Adolin as being that type of person. But, in retrospect there's plenty of signs. Also, I think that scene might be used in evidence by those who still support Sadeas after his death (eg his wife).

[Ketek]

Yes, but I think it's rather interesting that before fighting Szeth, Dalinar essentially tells his son not to do things the Blackthorn way. To be just, fair. To be Nohadon, as much as is possible. Dalinar's internal monologue even states that he thinks his son is a better man.

 

And then Adolin goes on and does what the Blackthorn would do. It's disappointing, to say the least. Even if some Radiant orders would agree with what he did, imho it doesn't fit in with his character. He 'snapped'. That to me, implies something. He let out something ugly. Dark.

 

I could just be reading too much into it but it sounds a lot like Anakin's fall to the dark side. First a small evil. Then a greater one. And more, and more, and more...

[Kasimir]

I'm not absolutely certain about how the Lightweavers would regard Adolin's actions. They certainly seem to be a lot more fluid with regard to what is permissible than oh, say, the Windrunners, for instance. I'm not saying this as a suggestion that Adolin might become a Lightweaver, but that it would be interesting if an aspect of how he's handled the situation (attempting to deceive/cover-up his murder of Sadeas) elicited some sort of response in Pattern.

 

Could that end up affecting his relationship with Shallan?

[Ketek]

 

I'm not absolutely certain about how the Lightweavers would regard Adolin's actions. They certainly seem to be a lot more fluid with regard to what is permissible than oh, say, the Windrunners, for instance. I'm not saying this as a suggestion that Adolin might become a Lightweaver, but that it would be interesting if an aspect of how he's handled the situation (attempting to deceive/cover-up his murder of Sadeas) elicited some sort of response in Pattern.

 

Could that end up affecting his relationship with Shallan?

 

There is speculation he could join the Dustbringers, due to hints Brandon has dropped. It's fitting, but... all the Kholins being in the Knights Radiant? Doesn't sound too good for me.

 

Could it affect his relationship with Shallan? Maybe. We don't know, now that Shallan is starting to admit deep, dark truths to herself. Remember, the Shallan in TWoK was different from the WoR one. 

[kari-no-sugata]

I kind of doubt that Shallan would be okay with it, given her reaction to Jasnah killing the thugs in TWoK, which was (to me at least) a far more clear-cut case of self-defense than Adolin killing Sadeas, and therefore more moral.

 

I guess it would depend a lot on how she finds out. Also, she saw the thugs get killed in TWoK, which was a large party of her distress.

 

My guess is a sequence of events like this:

1) Shallan notices Adolin acting odd (maybe even before she finds out Sadeas is dead)

2) Shallan asks him what's wrong. He lies and she notices (with Pattern she's good at detecting lies) so she keeps asking

3) Lets say for sake of example that Adolin confesses and tells Shallan pretty much everything

4) Within last few days, Shallan has been forced to remember that she killed her own mother. She was also very forgiving of her brothers' darker side. She also knows that Sadeas is nasty guy (Adolin filled her in on it on their 3rd meeting and she could tell Adolin was pretty upset about it all). Also recall that it was Shallan's idea for Adolin to do something spectacular, get the King's Boon and duel Sadeas to the death. In short: I think Shallan could be reasonably ok with it.

 

But it could go very differently too.

[Kasimir]

Ketek, on 13 Apr 2014 - 8:29 PM, said:

Could it affect his relationship with Shallan? Maybe. We don't know, now that Shallan is starting to admit deep, dark truths to herself. Remember, the Shallan in TWoK was different from the WoR one.

My bad: I wasn't thinking in terms of if Shallan herself would be fine with it--I'm pretty convinced that it would take a bit of doing but the answer would be 'yes'. I was more curious if there's something in the relation between the Cryptics and lies that could give a Syl sort of result. "Adolin, my spren's starting to act really weird around you. We need to talk."

[kari-no-sugata]

My bad: I wasn't thinking in terms of if Shallan herself would be fine with it--I'm pretty convinced that it would take a bit of doing but the answer would be 'yes'. I was more curious if there's something in the relation between the Cryptics and lies that could give a Syl sort of result. "Adolin, my spren's starting to act really weird around you. We need to talk."

 

Oh, that's very interesting idea! That never occurred to me but yes, if Adolin did attract a spren we might need to worry about spren comparability with Pattern. A spren's personality doesn't necessarily reflect the human and I remember a general hint that it's more than just the honorspren and cryptics that have politics

[Moogle]

I'm not absolutely certain about how the Lightweavers would regard Adolin's actions. They certainly seem to be a lot more fluid with regard to what is permissible than oh, say, the Windrunners, for instance. I'm not saying this as a suggestion that Adolin might become a Lightweaver, but that it would be interesting if an aspect of how he's handled the situation (attempting to deceive/cover-up his murder of Sadeas) elicited some sort of response in Pattern.

 

Could that end up affecting his relationship with Shallan?

 

I don't think the Lightweavers as a whole would have an opinion. They seem much more fluid in their personality types. Shallan, though, is likely going to think what Adolin did was a terrible thing to do. As has been established, however, she's a huge hypocrite, so hopefully this just drives Adolin into Kaladin's arms or something.

[Ketek]

I don't think the Lightweavers as a whole would have an opinion. They seem much more fluid in their personality types. Shallan, though, is likely going to think what Adolin did was a terrible thing to do. As has been established, however, she's a huge hypocrite, so hopefully this just drives Adolin into Kaladin's arms or something.

 

And we have our first homosexual shipping for the Stormlight Archive!

[11thorderknight]

Shallan has recently come to terms with 1) Jasnah's entrapment and execution of the street thugs, 2) killing her mother in self-defense, 3) poisoning and then strangling her father to protect her family. She's also killed Tyn and joined a homicidal secret society. She's the last person that should have a problem with what Adolin did. 

 

The person he needs to worry about is Dalinar....

[Ketek]

 

 

The person he needs to worry about is Dalinar....

 

Very much so. He cannot be accused of favoritism, not at this juncture. 

[WeiryWriter]

And we have our first homosexual shipping for the Stormlight Archive!

 

Ha, you think that is the first how cute.  We've had them for years, Shallan/Jasnah and Kaladin/Renarin were the two main ones for a while, but Kaladin/Adolin is gaining popularity.

[Ketek]

Ha, you think that is the first how cute.  We've had them for years, Shallan/Jasnah and Kaladin/Renarin were the two main ones for a while, but Kaladin/Adolin is gaining popularity.

 

I think I am going to forget you mentioned this before curiosity overwhelms me and I go looking for slash-fic.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Ketek

[Aleksiel]

I agree with the idea that the word "snapped" is significant, since Adolin really did need something more if he's going to become a KR. And I think he is, partly because we're going to need more than one knight representing each order by the end of the series. (Unless we come back from the break after book five and there are a whole bunch of anonymous redshirt KR's running around.)

 

Anyway, there was an interesting quote from a signing that got me thinking about a potential oath for Adolin's hypothetical order:

 

Bold text is obviously mine.

 

It has the feel of a proto-oath, the idea behind the eventual oath. Something like a grim: "I will do what needs to be done"?

 

Sounds a bit like 'I will stand where others fail' or something that Brandon said will be an Oath (my spheres are on Stonewards). So, Adolin could possibly become a Stoneward; they were warriors, took their duties very seriously, dependable and resourceful, etc. Overall Adolin fits.

 

 

When Adolin killed Sadeas I was both surprised and not. I expected Sadeas to be killed, but not in such a way. I thought either Kaladin or Adolin were likely to do it and I was sort of suspicious about Renarin (would have been cool). Though I thought Jasnah would have him assassinated was the likeliest, but chapter 7 threw this out of the window.

 

I think Adolin can get away with it, so long as he doesn't confess. 

[Erai Sedai]

I'm glad he did it, didn't really expect it though. Not for him to go that far.
It'll be very interesting to see how it's all dealt with

[11thorderknight]

My guess is that Adolin will "get away with it" in the sense that he won't be discovered publicly as the killer. Dalinar/Shallan/Renarin/Ghostblods/whoever might figure it out though.

 

My other guess though is that Adolin will have to acknowledge/admit the murder in order to level up in whatever order he ends up in. And my money is on Dustbringers.

[shadewolf]

The person he needs to worry about is Dalinar....

 

While we bring up Dalinar, what would he have done in that situation? Honestly I think he might have done the same exact thing as his son, and had a good nights rest after.

[Aether]

While we bring up Dalinar, what would he have done in that situation? Honestly I think he might have done the same exact thing as his son, and had a good nights rest after.

 

The Blackthorn in him would have, but not the Nohadon. I also feel like it would be at odds with his newly proclaimed Oath.

[Dark Knight]

Do you think somehow Oathbringer will end up back with Dalinar? Somehow revives the spren? He did do KR type stuff before he became a fully oathed KR like when he caught the chasmfiends arm on the hunt. That's just an extra but I'm wondering how Elhokar will react because as king, he will have to deal with the outcome or the other highprinces may revolt. That's why either someone helping Adolin escape or some sort of banishment could be likely. Also, Elhokar is obviously becoming a KR as he sees spren and his shardplate gems losing stormlight was obviously him feeding on the stormlight unwittingly. Kaladin may even end up "teaching" him leadership.

[Wherethewindgoes]

Do you think somehow Oathbringer will end up back with Dalinar? Somehow revives the spren? 

 

I imagine reviving the spren would require re-forming the Nahel Bond in some way, so reviving Oathbringer would require Dalinar to be in two KR orders at once. I believe there is WoB that bonding multiple spren is possible, but I'm not sure how that would work out.

[shadewolf]

The Blackthorn in him would have, but not the Nohadon. I also feel like it would be at odds with his newly proclaimed Oath.

 

 As weird as it sounds, I think killing Sedeas may be him living up to his oath. If a person just claims to try his very hardest to drive people apart, and is a credible enough treat to accomplish it, what would drive them apart more, killing him or not killing him. I have my doubts about the bondsmiths, there are a lot of ways to bring people together that aren't exactly clean or good, such as through manipulation and fear. Ishi himself established the Knights Radiants with the threat of death.The first ideal may brunt some of the choices that have to be made, but it doesn't disallow making the hard-choices.

 

Dalinar has already agreed to Adolin killing Sedeas in a duel. Sure you could say, "but adolin is killing him out in the open and not in the shadows." Does that make his death any better of a choice. The only difference is in the repercussions. Assassins in the night would just spark a war that Dalinar couldn't win for most of WoR, which is why he didn't strike down Sedeas at the end of WoK. By the end of WoR however, things have changed immensely. I really think he'd have gone for it given that there was nobody else and nothing to really link him with the crime(that we know of atleast).

Edited April 14, 2014 by shadewolf

[qqemonte]

In my opinion, what Adolin did  was both serving justice and self-defense though it could be more described as summary execution. Sadeas was guilty for the death of thousands of soldiers, that alone is reason enough for him to die. Apart from that, he threatened the destruction of the Kholin family. I believe Adolin has enough ground to execute Sadeas. It wasn't because of political maneuvering or a so called belief of a better end that would justify the means. I think it was justice, plain and simple. On the other hand, if he did it out of pure revenge and not because of a sense of justice then it would be no different from Kaladin wanting to kill Amaram. If Adolin did it to protect then he can still be a radiant but if he did it because of revenge then that might disqualify him.   

I think the reason the skybreakers were added last was because there was already an existing order that serve justice basing it on wisdom instead of laws and legalities. Laws and legalities can be twisted and someone guilty can actually escape justice or can be the other way around, an innocent person being framed and falsely executed. Probably the Skybreakers were  formed due the demand of different kingdoms that their legal bureaucracies be respected by the Radiants.          

I agree that Adolin might a potential Dustbringer. He sees injustice and act upon it like when he protected the whore against Sadea's thug soldiers and when he demands that he be imprisoned as well when Kaladin was thrown into prison. He has a sense of justice. And this might attract a certain kind of spren.Probably a Dustbringer oath is something like... 'I will fight injustice or I will serve justice'... something along that line....          

Edited April 14, 2014 by qqemonte

[Gabriele]

I don't think the Lightweavers as a whole would have an opinion. They seem much more fluid in their personality types. Shallan, though, is likely going to think what Adolin did was a terrible thing to do. As has been established, however, she's a huge hypocrite, so hopefully this just drives Adolin into Kaladin's arms or something.

 

Fine, I so needed a slashy plotbunny. I already thought they should have had more fun sharing a prison cell.  *insert little devil smiley here*

[Kasimir]

In terms of Adolin's relationships, I'd treat his with Shallan as the least likely to cause issues, at least on the spren side. With regard to Kaladin and Dalinar, their relationship with their spren (Syl and the Stormfather respectively) seem more strict in terms of what's permissible and what isn't. I'm actually divided on Dalinar--it seems as though it's not against the oaths Dalinar has so far sworn. (Given the First Ideal is the same for all KR orders, I'm assuming that it shouldn't be taken as flouting it.)

 

I do wonder how things will go with Renarin though. On one hand, Renarin seems pretty perceptive on his own. Add to the fact Adolin's his older brother, and that he's a Truthwatcher, and it seems possible that Renarin would know. (Given we don't really have much information on the Truthwatchers, I don't think we can really guess if Glys would prompt Renarin to a particular course of action.)

Edited April 14, 2014 by Kasimir