Adolin's actions at the end of WoR (spoilers)

[Gabriele]

I don't think Kaladin will be too bothered about it. His hatred for Sadeas who callously killed so many bridgemen probably is stronger than his newfound ideals in this case. He'll be struggling to keep up those anyway in some situations, or it would be too easy. And writers don't make life easy for their characters.

[shadewolf]

I don't think Kaladin will be too bothered about it. His hatred for Sadeas who callously killed so many bridgemen probably is stronger than his newfound ideals in this case. He'll be struggling to keep up those anyway in some situations, or it would be too easy. And writers don't make life easy for their characters.

 

lol I was thinking the same for different reason. We spend an entire book with Kaladin pining to kill Amaram, if anything Kaladin would totally sympathize with Adolin. Sure Kaladin might not condone Adolins actions, but he's done stupid things on the spur of the moment coughchallengingAmaramcough so it recently won't destroy their burgeoning friendship.

[Kasimir]

Maybe I should clarify: as I'd mentioned earlier, I'm looking at this from the KR side. I'm not referring to Kaladin's personal attitudes towards Adolin, nor Dalinar's, nor Shallan's, nor Renarin's. My interest in this discussion is very simply this: as KRs, they have to swear oaths. These oaths bind them with more than just normative force--there are active consequences on their bond with their spren, their spren, and their position as a KR.

 

My question: does knowing what Adolin did demand, in virtue of their oaths, some sort of action from Kaladin/Dalinar/Shallan/Renarin? My inclination is that any conflict, if it were to arise, would come from Kaladin's/Dalinar's oaths. Perhaps.

 

Although I would be interested, since we seem to be always returning to how people would personally feel about what Adolin did, in how Renarin would see things.

[Dark Knight]

I think the biggest conflicts will arise from Dalinar and Elhokar. They're the ones who'll have to deal with the consequences of adolins actions. This will threaten their unity. This might be the incident which helps develop Elhokars character too because as king he will have to make a decision on it once everything comes to light. I can't see Dalinar hiding it from him. It will be a Defining moment for them both. A true test of their oaths. That's why I'm convinced he'll get banished as I've mentioned in other threads. Not executed as because he is a hero and so popular, he'll get some clemency and not get executed. He will then start his journey in becoming a KR and so will Elhokar.

[trevorade]

I think that Adolin will continue to attempt to withhold this murder and that it will result in a steady progression of lies and deceit.  This may eventually lead him to become some kind of anti-radiant perhaps becoming a voidbinder.  As son of the new leader of the Knights Radiant, he could continue his involvement with the KR and maybe become a double agent for whatever organization is associated with voidbinding.

 

Given the circumstances, he probably would have been best served not trying to cover up the murder and coming clean to Elhokar and Dalinar.  Now that he's started the process of lies, it's going to be hard to fess up to his actions of trying to ditch the evidence and running from his crime.  I don't see him coming clean.

 

Considering Sadeas's enemies, Adolin is probably a prime suspect for this crime though the use of the knife and missing shardblade will probably infer a non-shardbearer assassin.  Should be interesting to see how this plays out...

[Vasteel]

It would be interesting seeing Adolin go down a darker path than we are all expecting. I feel like the whole idea of "Hey everyone here is conveniently a surgebinder now" is kind of lame for the lack of better words. If Odium does end up championing someone I feel like Adolin would be a great choice!

[maxal]

It would be interesting seeing Adolin go down a darker path than we are all expecting. I feel like the whole idea of "Hey everyone here is conveniently a surgebinder now" is kind of lame for the lack of better words. If Odium does end up championing someone I feel like Adolin would be a great choice!

 

I great choice, yes. He is the Blackthorn's son, many think he may be a greater warrior than his father himself and having his son fighting against him would certainly hinder Dalinar. However, after spending so much time telling us how good a person Adolin really is, it would an utmost disapointement if it worked. I believe Odium will try to break Adolin and to get him to say the right words to bond him, but it won't work or so I hope.

[Vasteel]

I great choice, yes. He is the Blackthorn's son, many think he may be a greater warrior than his father himself and having his son fighting against him would certainly hinder Dalinar. However, after spending so much time telling us how good a person Adolin really is, it would an utmost disapointement if it worked. I believe Odium will try to break Adolin and to get him to say the right words to bond him, but it won't work or so I hope.

Adolin being portrayed as the "good guy" - makes it that much more sweet. When adolin has an epiphany about where his morals actually rest, he will make a great antagonist

[maxal]

Adolin being portrayed as the "good guy" - makes it that much more sweet. When adolin has an epiphany about where his morals actually rest, he will make a great antagonist

 

But it would be too tragic He is described in such a likeable way, it would really frustrating, as a reader, to see him become just plain evil.

[Moogle]

But it would be too tragic He is described in such a likeable way, it would really frustrating, as a reader, to see him become just plain evil.

 

I don't think you have to worry about this. He might become 'evil', but this is something I doubt so hard that it can hardly be expressed in words. Even if not by going how obviously evil Sadeas was, we have a WoB that Brandon felt what Adolin did was 'necessary' and less 'evil' than what Jasnah did with the four robbers/rapists (which was itself portrayed as 'good'). I think he'll never be just plain evil - at worst, he'll be something grey along the lines of Batman without that irritating restriction of "no killing criminals!".

 

Sanderson likes his sympathetic villains, which makes me wonder why Sadeas and Amaram exist at all. Probably just to get knocked off, I guess? I give Mr. T greater than 50/50 odds of surviving to the latter half of the series simply because he's sympathetic relative to most other villains.

Edited April 17, 2014 by Moogle

[Vasteel]

I don't think you have to worry about this. He might become 'evil', but this is something I doubt so hard that it can hardly be expressed in words. Even if not by going how obviously evil Sadeas was, we have a WoB that Brandon felt what Adolin did was 'necessary' and less 'evil' than what Jasnah did with the four robbers/rapists (which was itself portrayed as 'good'). I think he'll never be just plain evil - at worst, he'll be something grey along the lines of Batman without that irritating restriction of "no killing criminals!".

 

Sanderson likes his sympathetic villains, which makes me wonder why Sadeas and Amaram exist at all. Probably just to get knocked off, I guess? I give Mr. T greater than 50/50 odds of surviving to the latter half of the series simply because he's sympathetic relative to most other villains.

Very well said. I agree with you it is the radical villains which usually get taken out first.

I still think that Adolin going dark side would be awesome.

Just think of how much better the starwars series would have been if you actually watched it from 1-6, not knowing Ani was going darkside from the beginning. As for Adolin though, I do realize that the chances of that happening is slim to none but I can dream

Edited April 17, 2014 by Vasteel

[Gabriele]

A redemption arc would be nice. I like those (yes, Jaime is my favourite character from ASOIAF).

[maxal]

A redemption arc would be nice. I like those (yes, Jaime is my favourite character from ASOIAF).

 

 

Jaime :wub:   One of my favorite story arc.

[Vasteel]

I will always hate Jaime for throwing Bran out the window.

[maxal]

I will always hate Jaime for throwing Bran out the window.

 

Yes this is exactly why he is such a great character. We spend 3 books hating him for throwing poor Bran out of the window only to see him going through this amazing redemption arc.

 

Althought, I must say, the Anakin story line is much less interesting. I hate the "good guy gone bad" story arcs unless the good guy isn't portrayed in a favoralbe way to being with. I mean, when I saw poor Anakin slaying those helpless kids, I was traumatised. I didn't feel we had sufficient cause and motive to justify *that* and if Brandon makes Adolin goes Anakin on us, it would feel just the same.

[Vasteel]

Yes this is exactly why he is such a great character. We spend 3 books hating him for throwing poor Bran out of the window only to see him going through this amazing redemption arc.

 

Althought, I must say, the Anakin story line is much less interesting. I hate the "good guy gone bad" story arcs unless the good guy isn't portrayed in a favoralbe way to being with. I mean, when I saw poor Anakin slaying those helpless kids, I was traumatised. I didn't feel we had sufficient cause and motive to justify *that* and if Brandon makes Adolin goes Anakin on us, it would feel just the same.

 

 

Fair enough. I just have a very deep rooted hatred for him and I see him double crossing us again before the end. That is if he isn't just killed off like everyone else. Lol

 

[Gabriele]

Sure, throwing Bran off the window wasn't nice, but he did it to protect his sister and their children. He's not the type to throw kids out of windows for fun like an Evil Overlord . He may also have thought Bran was sent there to spy on him; after all Jaime knows Kings Landing and its intrigues and probably something about Varys' little birds. And he hated that he had to do it.

"The things I do for love," he said with loathing.

 

It's a little POV glitch here (I'm not sure Bran would notice the loathing) Martin built in - or it escaped him - to lay out little bits for the redemption arc.

[maxal]

Sure, throwing Bran off the window wasn't nice, but he did it to protect his sister and their children. He's not the type to throw kids out of windows for fun like an Evil Overlord . He may also have thought Bran was sent there to spy on him; after all Jaime knows Kings Landing and its intrigues and probably something about Varys' little birds. And he hated that he had to do it.

It's a little POV glitch here (I'm not sure Bran would notice the loathing) Martin built in - or it escaped him - to lay out little bits for the redemption arc.

 

Yes and he is sorry for what he did. He tries to make it up by "saving" the Stark girls and I do hope he succeeds as I am a sucker for a good redemption story.

 

Now, will Adolin feel sorry for killing Sadeas? While re-reading passages of WoK, I realised how much Adolin hated Sadeas even then. He always got mad whenever Sadeas was talking to his father and Renarin had to hold him back a few times. He constantly warned his father against Sadeas only to be proven right at the tower in a mass killing that nearly destroyed his father's army. Afterwards, he is forced to watch his father interact with Sadeas as if nothing happened when all he wants is to get back at the weasel. The one chance he gets was destroyed by Elhokar idiocy. I can understand that, after learning all his family are now powerfull Radiants, and after hearing the weasel gloat one more time, he lost it. This was in the building for two books.

 

But will he feel any remorse? Doubtfull. However, he may have trouble dealing with he obvious disapointement in Dalinar. His father, his hero, who tried so hard to turn him into a man he himself took 30 thirty years to built.

 

I have been wondering also, could the broken wrist play a part in Adolin's demise? I mean, how many people do you know would go into a close fight with a broken arm??? He may have ended up hurting it more than it was and I wonder if that will give him out. I also wondered how Adolin would deal with the unability to fight for the weeks it'll take for his arm to heal.

[Gabriele]

Well, I know some crazy people who would fight with a broken wrist. I've done so with a sprained ankle which isn't exactly more reasonable.

 

I agree that Adolin would probably sorry for the disappointment he caused his father by losing it, but not for killing Sadeas as such (hey, that weasel had it coming three miles, and I cheered when I read the scene). He may also feel sorry for the political ramifications his act will likely cause and the trouble he'll put his father in though it might take a bit for him to see that.

[Vasteel]

Well, I know some crazy people who would fight with a broken wrist. I've done so with a sprained ankle which isn't exactly more reasonable.

 

I agree that Adolin would probably sorry for the disappointment he caused his father by losing it, but not for killing Sadeas as such (hey, that weasel had it coming three miles, and I cheered when I read the scene). He may also feel sorry for the political ramifications his act will likely cause and the trouble he'll put his father in though it might take a bit for him to see that.

Agreed. On both points... especially the first statement. LOL

However, I'm sure Kaladin could just let him hold an Honor blade for two point five... suck up some storm light and no more broken wrist. Screw surgeons... Welcome to the hospital of Kaladin Stormblessed! Hold my sword and be magically healed! I wonder if it would be that easy.

[Kasimir]

Welcome to the hospital of Kaladin Stormblessed! Hold my sword and be magically healed! I wonder if it would be that easy.

Oh really

(Bet Jezrien never saw that use for his Honorblade...)

I'm more sympathetic to the 'Adolin becomes a Dustbringer' camp, but I do think it's the beginning of a lot more troubles for Adolin. It occurs to me that some people simply don't take to holding a deception well, and the weight of the secret he's keeping might be the event that breaks Adolin, even if his killing Sadeas doesn't. Adolin's the sort to say what he thinks, not for this kind of deception, and I suspect it'll be hard on him.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Kasimir

[Gabriele]

Lol, I don't think it will be that easy.

 

Or I hope so. I've never been a fan of magical healing with no costs and problems. Self-healing by Stormlight is one thing since it has to be earned, but much as Kaladin would like to heal others that way, too, since he cares, it would make sickness and injuries less valid, and that would be unrealistic (as far as Fantasy worlds are realistic, lol).

[Vasteel]

Lol, I don't think it will be that easy.

 

Or I hope so. I've never been a fan of magical healing with no costs and problems. Self-healing by Stormlight is one thing since it has to be earned, but much as Kaladin would like to heal others that way, too, since he cares, it would make sickness and injuries less valid, and that would be unrealistic (as far as Fantasy worlds are realistic, lol).

 

Well said. I wonder if it is that easy though. Just pick up an honor blade with no bonding process? Do we have any information on how one starts using an honorblade?

[maxal]

Agreed. On both points... especially the first statement. LOL

However, I'm sure Kaladin could just let him hold an Honor blade for two point five... suck up some storm light and no more broken wrist. Screw surgeons... Welcome to the hospital of Kaladin Stormblessed! Hold my sword and be magically healed! I wonder if it would be that easy.

 

 

Well, I myself never broke any bones, but my mother recently broke a rib and she has a hard time just standing. Thus, from my point of vue: wrestling with a broken wrist = very very bad idea. Anyway, I was just wondering what could give Adolin out. I thought that could be factor.

 

I sincerely hope healing does not become *that* easy. Besides, injured troubled Adolin feeling useless would be more interesting to read.

[rererak]

I know people have mentioned this, but I think the actions of Adolin actually cemented him as a KR. He could end up with the dustbringers but somehow I see him more in the willshapers. A part of this is I like echoing past with present, where Kalak and Jezrien are the only ones shown as possibly being friends (although the relationship of the Heralds as a whole isn't known) and I could see there being a moment where Kaladin (Jezrien being his Herald) and Adolin (Kalak being the Herald of the Willshapers) have to choose to abandon someone, all of them broken by something Taravangian (who I suspect will be Odium's champion of Eshonai's sister isn't) did. Of course then I will pity whoever ends up being a stoneward.

 

But more than that, I think the description given from the Words of Radiance book (uh... not the book we read but the one Shallan did) fits him too.

“And now, if there was an uncut gem among the Radiance, it was the Willshapers; for though enterprising, they were erratic, and Invia wrote of them, 'capricious, frustrating, unreliable,' as taking it for granted that others would agree; this may have been an intolerant view, as often Invia expressed, for this order was said to be most varied, inconsistent in temperament save for a general love of adventure, novelty, or oddity.”

 

He clearly loves oddities (Shallan being a good example) and his attitude has been incredibly erratic, as shown even in his simple 4 duels in WoR and how quickly his attitude changes in the first book regarding his father. There is logic in his mood swings, but there is definitely a little chaos as well. I mean, he even locked himself up for Kaladin! Someone who he hated before! Plus, I have had another theory going that he is similar to Gavilar is several ways (I mentioned I like echoing the past and I wrote a topic on how Kaladin is like Dalinar, Shallan is like Navani, and Adolin is like Gavilar) and the idea that others would agree fits Gavilar at the very least, and I would not be surprised if Adolin follows that attitude as time goes on. We've seen less of it, but I feel we may need to see his past a bit more before any conclusions come.