The Set Breeding Allomancers

[+Invocation]

The Set is much more of a potential threat now that they have Hemalurgy, yes? Provided the speculation of Wax and the crew that their goal is to breed a Fullborn is correct, and based off of this:

Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

If you have a series of inquisitors, like a family of inquisitors having children for generations over...

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Would the Hemalurgy influence the sDNA of the children? Is that what you are asking? That is a hypothesis that has merit in the way the magic system works (grin). It is not a supposition to be discarded out of hand.

source

it would no longer be a many, many generation thing, but only, conceivably, a few generations. Less than 10 to make a complete Fullborn. They're suddenly a more major threat, yeah? Am I understanding this right?

[+Ark1002]

Yep. I always thought that was interesting. Take a Misting or Ferring, spike them three times, breed them with another Three spiked MIsting or Ferring, very likely to have Misting, Ferring, MIstborn, or Feruchemist children.

[Spoolofwhool]

Relevant:

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zas678

You've said that Inquisitors could have children. Would those children have a better chance at being Allomancers compared to if they had the kids before they were Inquisitors?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but there also could be...complications.

source

Personally, I don't think using hemalurgy to grant someone powers has the same effect as just introducing allomantic or feruchemical potential to their inheritance.

[CadCom he/him]

The hypothesis has merit, and if it is accurate, which we still don't know yet, I don't see why it would take even 10 generations to make a complete non-hemalurgic fullborn. If you spike someone's sDNA with enough spikes across their entire body to give them the equivalent of fullborn, then do the same with someone of the opposite sex, assuming the hypothesis turns out to be true, their offspring would already have a pretty good chance of being fullborn. 1 generation. 

Indeed they could create not just one fullborn within 10 generations, but an army of them!

[+Invocation]

16 minutes ago, Cadmium Compounder said:

The hypothesis has merit, and if it is accurate, which we still don't know yet, I don't see why it would take even 10 generations to make a complete non-hemalurgic fullborn. If you spike someone's sDNA with enough spikes across their entire body to give them the equivalent of fullborn, then do the same with someone of the opposite sex, assuming the hypothesis turns out to be true, their offspring would already have a pretty good chance of being fullborn. 1 generation. 

Indeed they could create not just one fullborn within 10 generations, but an army of them!

The issue with that is Harmony taking control of the mega-spiked dudes and ladies. 

[Calderis he/him]

16 minutes ago, Invocation said:

The issue with that is Harmony taking control of the mega-spiked dudes and ladies. 

Not to mention mental problems. 

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focoma

We've seen Kandra True Bodies made of crystal, stone, or wood. Can a kandra use a True Body made of metal? If so, what happens if each metal "bone" had a Hemalurgic charge, and each one is touching an appropriate bind point?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. And that would work, better than you think, because Kandra have fluid bind points. But too many spikes can be dangerous to the psyche, even with Ati not messing things up.

source

 

[I think I am here. he/him]

Food for thought, and Era 3 speculation:

Spoiler

What if the Era 3 Mistborn serial killer is a result of the Set breeding spiked, and now they have bred a natural Mistborn, but he (or she) has those 'complications' the WoB mentioned earlier and so is kind of crazy (hence becoming a serial killer). More, since its planned the main character for Era 3 to be a nicroburst, and since its speculated that children of spiked could carry the emotional instability, what if the way they finally beat the Misrborn is realise this and get the nicroburst to nicroburst a soother/rioter, effectively having a Mistborn slave? Or what if the Set is controlling the Mistborn this way to do crimes, and the main characters have to free the Mistborn from their grip, turning he (or she) into an ally?

Crazy speculation, but maybe?

[HeyLookItz he/him]

2 hours ago, I think I am here. said:

Food for thought, and Era 3 speculation:

  Reveal hidden contents

What if the Era 3 Mistborn serial killer is a result of the Set breeding spiked, and now they have bred a natural Mistborn, but he (or she) has those 'complications' the WoB mentioned earlier and so is kind of crazy (hence becoming a serial killer). More, since its planned the main character for Era 3 to be a nicroburst, and since its speculated that children of spiked could carry the emotional instability, what if the way they finally beat the Misrborn is realise this and get the nicroburst to nicroburst a soother/rioter, effectively having a Mistborn slave? Or what if the Set is controlling the Mistborn this way to do crimes, and the main characters have to free the Mistborn from their grip, turning he (or she) into an ally?

Crazy speculation, but maybe?

Really like this theory.

Does anyone know exactly how the soothing/rioting thing works? Could it work on spiked humans, or do they have to not be human? Why does it work?

[Calderis he/him]

11 minutes ago, HeyLookItz said:

Really like this theory.

Does anyone know exactly how the soothing/rioting thing works? Could it work on spiked humans, or do they have to not be human? Why does it work?

Humans have the same limit as Koloss, because Koloss are human. Four spikes. 

Rather than just manipulating their emotions, hemalurgy provides a hole that allows direct manipulation of the targets soul. 

Once the link is forged, you have them. 

[Darth Woodrack he/him]

To make a fullborn that is as powerful as a Lord Ruler, you would have to spike the parents a lot because they would have to have enough investiture to make a true fullborn.

[+Sorana she/her]

And now I am imaging some kind of sect whose only goal is to create a new fullborn. Extremists that accept every risk and do gruesome things, only to be able to control the next generation of Fullborn.

*tries to get the thought out of her head*

[goody153]

There's also the aspect that the fullborn has to be talented as well. Having the abiltiies just isn't enough especially considering Scadrial is entering modern warfare(which i think will make a Fullborn aloooot less effective considering modern weapons and people like Ranette already building counters a full century before era 3)

[Vissy]

There's obviously more to this "breeding program" than we've been told so far. I don't care how powerful the Set is in-world, you don't breed and control a population of magic-users without complications. I doubt the people they're breeding have any particular love for the Set, or any particular care for their plans.

Edited September 3, 2018 by Vissy

[Calderis he/him]

1 hour ago, goody153 said:

There's also the aspect that the fullborn has to be talented as well. Having the abiltiies just isn't enough especially considering Scadrial is entering modern warfare(which i think will make a Fullborn aloooot less effective considering modern weapons and people like Ranette already building counters a full century before era 3)

How do you counter a Fullborn? Ranette's weapons are great against mistings/ferrings... But the combinations a Fullborn can produce, I just don't see it. 

[goody153]

12 minutes ago, Calderis said:

How do you counter a Fullborn? Ranette's weapons are great against mistings/ferrings... But the combinations a Fullborn can produce, I just don't see it. 

Somebody who eats a chemical napalm missile won't be able to regenerate(cause you'll be dust and your metalminds melt so fast). That's just one wonder of the modern warfare (which i assume will be a thing in scadrial).

And if Wax&Co could actually touch Bleeder i don't have a doubt in mind that somebody with aluminum unpushable bullets with a good automatic machinegun would stop a gold/steel compounder on their tracks if fired in the open.

I also don't think you heal fast enough to stop 50 cal bullets from ripping you apart(you can heal but you can't stop the punching and force of it which it has enough power to dismember a person(it's capable of dismemberment it has that enough firepower)). Or that steel feruchemy gives you enough speed to dodge an openfire of aluminum bullets with automatic guns.

Assuming that era 3 happens a 100 years after that if Rannette can design practical counters to allomancers. I highly doubt 100 years after that nobody could devise better and more effective strategies/technologies.

Now if we are talking about espionage and subterfuge well that's another issue entirely(which makes a fullborn insanely difficult to stop) but in normal warfare. Cosmere healing is beatable.

Edited September 3, 2018 by goody153

[+Invocation]

5 minutes ago, goody153 said:

Somebody who eats a chemical napalm missile won't be able to regenerate(cause you'll be dust and your metalminds melt so fast). That's just one wonder of the modern warfare (which i assume will be a thing in scadrial).

And if Wax&Co could actually touch Bleeder i don't have a doubt in mind that somebody with aluminum unpushable bullets with a good automatic machinegun would stop a gold/steel compounder on their tracks if fired in the open.

I also don't think you heal fast enough to stop 50 cal bullets from ripping you apart(you can heal but you can't stop the punching and force of it which it has enough power to dismember a person(it's capable of dismemberment it has that enough firepower)). Or that steel feruchemy gives you enough speed to dodge an openfire of aluminum bullets with automatic guns.

Assuming that era 3 happens a 100 years after that if Rannette can design practical counters to allomancers. I highly doubt 100 years after that nobody could devise better and more effective strategies/technologies.

Now if we are talking about espionage and subterfuge well that's another issue entirely(which makes a fullborn insanely difficult to stop) but in normal warfare. Cosmere healing is beatable.

Would still be difficult to counter as the Fullborn adjust to find ways around stuff and the tech adjusts to the adjustments and so on forever. To have a solid, pretty much uncounterable strategy against a Fullborn would require a significant amount of luck, cannon fodder (?mist fodder?), and an extremely powerful weapon. Nuclear or the chemical napalm you mentioned would probably do it, assuming the Fullborn doesn't realize and figure out a way out.

[Calderis he/him]

2 minutes ago, goody153 said:

Somebody who eats a chemical napalm missile won't be able to regenerate(cause you'll be dust and your metalminds melt so fast). That's just one wonder of the modern warfare (which i assume will be a thing in scadrial).

They have to actually be hit, and the lord ruler has literally healed from being burned to a skeleton. 

As to the metalminds melting... 

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Nethseäar

Can you burn or Feruchemically fill molten metal? Assuming, you know, that was something you wanted to do.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you should be able to but that would be very nasty.

Nethseäar

Would it affect the Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, it would affect the Investiture.

source

 

4 minutes ago, goody153 said:

And if Wax&Co could actually touch Bleeder i don't have a doubt in mind that somebody with aluminum unpushable bullets with a good automatic machinegun would stop a gold/steel compounder on their tracks if fired in the open.

The only thing they can't heal is places where aluminum is actually trapped in the body. If they can heal back from decapitation, I don't think gun fire is going to be that big a deal. 

6 minutes ago, goody153 said:

I also don't think you heal fast enough to stop 50 cal bullets from ripping you apart. Or that steel feruchemy gives you enough speed to dodge an openfire of aluminum bullets with automatic guns.

As I've pointed out in other discussions, bleeder fire four shots from different locations in a room so close together it sounded like a single report. 

Add gold healing and they could move even faster without worry as the only limit to steel is air resistance and friction. 

Add in everything that wax can do as a Crasher and any other power synergy... Fullborn should honestly just stay gone. I don't see how they're capable of losing unless they're stupidly negligent like TLR, or they're going against another Fullborn or a Shard. 

[+hwiles He/Him]

Spoiler

I'm mobile now so I can't look the reference up, but I'm almost certain there is a WoB saying a fullborn can't be born naturally. It's left unsaid if mistborn-ferrings and feruchemist-mistings are possible. My understanding is that the only well supported ways to create a fullborn without dozens of spikes are lerasium + a feruchemist or a mistborn + whatever hemalurgic shennanigans Kelsier pulled off.

Edit: retracted, apparently I was mistaken.

Edited September 7, 2018 by hwiles

[Govir]

5 hours ago, hwiles said:

I'm mobile now so I can't look the reference up, but I'm almost certain there is a WoB saying a fullborn can't be born naturally. It's left unsaid if mistborn-ferrings and feruchemist-mistings are possible. My understanding is that the only well supported ways to create a fullborn without dozens of spikes are lerasium + a feruchemist or a mistborn + whatever hemalurgic shennanigans Kelsier pulled off.

In 2015, he said it was possible.

Quote

Windrunner

Is it is even possible for a full Feruchemist Mistborn to be naturally born, or will the genes for the two interfere with one another too much?

Brandon Sanderson

It is possible, but highly unlikely.

source

No hits on Fullborn that change this, but I didn't go through every WoB hit I got from "full born" either...

 

 

[Calderis he/him]

19 minutes ago, Govir said:

No hits on Fullborn that change this, but I didn't go through every WoB hit I got from "full born" either...

Unfortunately, Fullborn is a fan term, because we don't have a Canon term for what TLR was. I don't think Brandon has ever said it. 

[Yata he/him]

Honestly I don't understand how the breading program could result into a Fullborn.

I could see them producing a Mistborn someway or a full feruchemist and this is already quite hard.

But to produce a Fullborn with requires two magics that contrast each other to manifest both fully and in the greatest magnitude. It's almost impossible. Much more if you start with low level "material"

 

Honestly I think that even TLR's sons could be born as Fullborn.