Windborne Sword Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) So I was thinking about this last night, when I was trying to go to bed and had just finished listening to Words of Radiance, what if the Cognitive Realm's appearance is based on your perception? For example for someone like Hoid, he'd probably see it as something completely different than say Jasnah or Shallan. Rosharans (is this a canon term yet?) associate spheres with holding power in the form of Stormlight so when they travel to Shadesmar they see a world made out of spheres; where as someone from the White Sands world might see it as sand of some sort. Revision: Instead of having everyone see it differently based on their beliefs, it would be shaped differently for each world, with spheres for Roshar and sand for the White Sands world. Metal for Scadrial. I'd assume something to do with light for Sel, or I've just been playing too much Infamous Second Son and enjoying the Neon Power way too much. This may also explain why it's so hard to travel in Shadesmar (or whatever it's called on Sel) around Shadesmar as well. Edit: I'm leaving the original theory there just for reference purposes, but I'm adding parts that have been suggested in the posts below. Would appreciate any feedback on this, as I found the concept really fascinating and in line with what little we know of the Cognitive Realm. Edited April 2, 2014 by Windborne Sword 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) Wow, I love this suggestion. I was thinking just the other day that the appearance of Shadesmar, with seas of glass beads, seemed rather arbitrary. After all, what specifically about spheres is inherently symbolic with thought? This explains this curious detail to me. If true, it makes me wonder whether the Spiritual Realm looks different depending on your religion and spiritual make-up. Edited April 1, 2014 by Kobold King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 It's possible, I guess, but we don't know enough for me to be convinced. First, we don't know if all of Roshar uses spheres as currency. Second, I don't know if Rosharans associate power with the spheres - considering how surprised everyone is when Szeth breathes Stormlight in, I imagine everyone's forgotten that some people can use Light to bend the natural forces; no, if anything spheres are associated with light (and they are frequently used for it). And finally, the cognitive realm has nothing to do with power, not natively - it's a realm of minds, not a realm of power. So I guess the spheres are, well, spheres because of how fluid cognition is (versus, for example, a cognitive realm made of cubes, or even irregular objects - that would hardly make for a "sea"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numb Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 It's an interesting theory and I think maybe on the right track but requires a little tweaking. If it's based on perception I see it being based on the people's perception and not just one persons. Much like the spren are "living ideas", I don't think one person alone could birth a new spren but a whole nation of people most likely can. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duladen Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) I think you are on the right track, but I'd like to offer a slight modification: we know that Shadesmar is only Roshar's equivalent of the Cognitive Realm. If you refer to the map, the "expanses" are other Shardworlds' cognitive reflections. With this in mind, I would agree that the Cognitive Realm for each Shardworld reflects some important aspect of that world - Shademar has seas of glass spheres, maybe Scadrial's is made entirely of metal. However, I'd say that everyone would see each region of the Cognitive Realm the same as each other. In other words, the appearance is controlled by the collective consciousness of that Shardworld, and is not just in the eye of the beholder. Edit: slightly ninja'd! Edited April 1, 2014 by duladen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 This makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Seconded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windborne Sword Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 I think you are on the right track, but I'd like to offer a slight modification: we know that Shadesmar is only Roshar's equivalent of the Cognitive Realm. If you refer to the map, the "expanses" are other Shardworlds' cognitive reflections. With this in mind, I would agree that the Cognitive Realm for each Shardworld reflects some important aspect of that world - Shademar has seas of glass spheres, maybe Scadrial's is made entirely of metal. However, I'd say that everyone would see each region of the Cognitive Realm the same as each other. In other words, the appearance is controlled by the collective consciousness of that Shardworld, and is not just in the eye of the beholder. Edit: slightly ninja'd! Agreed, I'll edit the main post in a day or so, when I get the time. Also any further thoughts would be great. I just thought I might be headed in the right direction and wanted to see if what I thought would spur others to help build the theory. I agree that it's probably different for each Shardworld and that everyone sees them the same, but still it'd be interesting to see if Shadesmar(or whatever it's called there) is made of metal on Scadrial or sand on the White Sands world. Would possibly be the reason why it's so hard to travel to Shadesmar on Sel as well. I mean glowing lines don't exactly make a stable platform to stand on after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duladen Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Agreed, I'll edit the main post in a day or so, when I get the time. Also any further thoughts would be great. I just thought I might be headed in the right direction and wanted to see if what I thought would spur others to help build the theory. I agree that it's probably different for each Shardworld and that everyone sees them the same, but still it'd be interesting to see if Shadesmar(or whatever it's called there) is made of metal on Scadrial or sand on the White Sands world. Would possibly be the reason why it's so hard to travel to Shadesmar on Sel as well. I mean glowing lines don't exactly make a stable platform to stand on after all. Yes, I am very eager to see the cognitive realm on other Shardworlds and how worldhoppers get from one planet to the next. I think we have WOB that the problem on Sel is related to both shards being shattered so there's nothing containing their power. On Roshar, this is achieved by spren. On Sel, the Seons and Skaze provide some containment but their numbers aren't even close to that of spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windborne Sword Posted April 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 Yes, I am very eager to see the cognitive realm on other Shardworlds and how worldhoppers get from one planet to the next. I think we have WOB that the problem on Sel is related to both shards being shattered so there's nothing containing their power. On Roshar, this is achieved by spren. On Sel, the Seons and Skaze provide some containment but their numbers aren't even close to that of spren. I'd love to see the WOB on that, cause I don't remember reading that from what we know from his various signings. I could have missed it however as I took a break after the summer last year to enjoy other series, and haven't been on these forums for ages until I finished Words of Radiance a couple days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 I wonder if land is water in the Cognitive Realm for every planet...and if it is, is it because when they look at land, they see all these different objects (rocks, leaves, STICKS), while when they look at water, they see..."water," so it's a single thing... *gets confused* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tempus Posted April 2, 2014 Report Share Posted April 2, 2014 I wonder if land is water in the Cognitive Realm for every planet...and if it is, is it because when they look at land, they see all these different objects (rocks, leaves, STICKS), while when they look at water, they see..."water," so it's a single thing... *gets confused* That's my assumption as well. Land is full of objects, so it becomes a lot of tiny beads, which act like a play pen full of balls. The ocean is all one big thing, cognitively, so it's all fused together and landish (though you can see a bunch of things inside it!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farnsworth Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 What would the cognative realm look like on Threnody or First of the Sun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasarr Posted June 3, 2016 Report Share Posted June 3, 2016 I like the theory, though a question about the point raised with seas and oceans - if the ocean is, in Cognitive Realm, one big thing, what about the fish? If sticks have cognitive aspects, fish should have them, too. Do their Cognitive aspects move through walls or somesuch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 I recall the balls of fire being simply visible through the obsidian ground at one point. Huh, solid obsidian. Man, retrieving Shallan's (or was it Jasnah's?) chest from underwater must have been tough. Sorry Nazh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted June 7, 2016 Report Share Posted June 7, 2016 (edited) Scandrial looks like mist, and Naltis is colour. Edited June 7, 2016 by kenod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VirtuousTraveller Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 What would the cognative realm look like on Threnody or First of the Sun? I'm curious if Threnody is actually a planet that exists entirely or partially in the Cognitive Realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 I'm curious if Threnody is actually a planet that exists entirely or partially in the Cognitive Realm. why have therenody to be in the Cognitive ? I didn't see nothing that may suggest it. I am very curios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argel Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) If the shadows are Cognitive Shadows..... Edit: I would go more with something from the CR spilling over into PR, but.... Edited June 9, 2016 by Argel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Script Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 why have therenody to be in the Cognitive ? I didn't see nothing that may suggest it. I am very curios Well the Evil and Shades are mostly OF COGNITIVE, so if not the whole, Threnody itself might be more of cognitive than other Shardworlds. Ps: I believe what your mean is "I didn't see ANYTHING that may suggest it", just grammar correction lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Script Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Scandrial looks like mist, and Naltis is colour. Mist is the PHYSICAL manifestations of Preservation, pretty doubt that it'll be similar. However, the CR of Scadrial is called "Expanse of Vapors" in Shadesmar, so it's still possible...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) Sorry man, I often make mistakes with the English Well the Evil and Shades are mostly OF COGNITIVE, so if not the whole, Threnody itself might be more of cognitive than other Shardworlds.Ps: I believe what your mean is "I didn't see ANYTHING that may suggest it", just grammar correction lol. Anyway we saw some Shardworlds' Cognitive Realm and Threnody has nothing of the peculiar features of the Cognitive Realm. I want to remember you that also Roshar has a great Cognitive Influence (the Spren and Cognitive Shadow are quite the same.... just the Cognitive Shadows are "HumanSpren") but it's physical realm not in the cognitive. Mist is the PHYSICAL manifestations of Preservation, pretty doubt that it'll be similar.However, the CR of Scadrial is called "Expanse of Vapors" in Shadesmar, so it's still possible...? Scadrial's CR is the only one we saw deeply and it's pretty Mist.... Probably the CR of EveryShardworld reflect how the Investiture manifest itself in the physical. I am not talking of the Focus, but exactly how the Investiture "spawns" naturally In the Physical. Edited June 10, 2016 by Yata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 Indeed, we know exactly what Scadrial looks like in CR and it is pretty much entirely mist (aside from bodies of water and outer space being solid black as usual). Even standing on the ground is tough unless you are cognitive yourself. The Nalthis and color assumption comes mostly from Lightsong's vague memories of his first death and the moments leading up to his Return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted June 10, 2016 Report Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) Indeed, we know exactly what Scadrial looks like in CR and it is pretty much entirely mist (aside from bodies of water and outer space being solid black as usual). Even standing on the ground is tough unless you are cognitive yourself. The Nalthis and color assumption comes mostly from Lightsong's vague memories of his first death and the moments leading up to his Return. We may need a new Word to refer as this elements...I am pretty "new" to the forum, how did we decided some terms before Brandon tells us the canonical term ? Because as temporary term "essence" may work Edited June 10, 2016 by Yata 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenod Posted June 11, 2016 Report Share Posted June 11, 2016 (edited) Mist is the PHYSICAL manifestations of Preservation, pretty doubt that it'll be similar. However, the CR of Scadrial is called "Expanse of Vapors" in Shadesmar, so it's still possible...? This is shown in SH Edited June 12, 2016 by kenod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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