kholinar (OB) A proper speculation on what’s Beneath Kholinar

[SzethIsBadAsHell he/him]

So the singers are banging away trying to uncover something beneath the palace at Kholinar.:

“Curious, human?”
Moash jumped, startled to find a figure hovering down through the broken ceiling, swathed in black. Lady Leshwi still visited Moash, the man who had killed her. She was important among the singers, but not in a highprince sort of way. More like a field captain.
“I guess I am curious, Ancient Singer,” Moash said. “Is there a reason you’re ripping apart this section of the palace? More than just to clear away the rubble?”
“Yes. But you do not yet need to know why.”

Excerpt From
Oathbringer
Brandon Sanderson
https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/oathbringer/id1198279804?mt=11
This material may be protected by copyright.

 

I didn’t Give it much thought at first . Then I started wondering what could they possibly want . Seems some speculation is in order.

So , we have not seen any Singer cities! We know they were the Original inhabitants. Of Roshar . What if there is an ancient Singer city beneath Kholinar? What  goodies would u expect to find? Fabrials ? Gems containing spren trapped for changes in highstorm? Ancient weapons cache? Or perhaps a City built like Urithiru but made for Singers!  I’d like to hear your thoughts ?

[goody153]

I thought they were looking for the pattern-spren that was supposed to bond with Elhokar but failed(cuz he ded). Since Hoid later went into the same area as the Fused breaking down the palace section and well he found the pattern-spren.

But i'm not really sure could be wrong.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

Yeah I think that was what was implied. Of course Brandon being Brandon it's possible they were actually after something else instead or in addition to.

[RShara she/her]

I think that Gavilar's source of black spheres is under the palace and that's what they're looking for.

[StrikerEZ he/him]

The crackpot theory I like is that someone (maybe Hoid) hid Taln's honorblade inside the palace (cut up wall, put blade in, patch over with new wall) and the Fused are after that.

I think it's more likely either the Cryptic Elhokar was supposed to bond, or some leftover dark spheres Gavilar had hidden away, or maybe both. 

[RShara she/her]

I don't think they're looking for the Cryptic, just because the Fused have access to Cryptics in Shadesmar and don't seem particularly interested in them.

[StrikerEZ he/him]

6 minutes ago, RShara said:

I don't think they're looking for the Cryptic, just because the Fused have access to Cryptics in Shadesmar and don't seem particularly interested in them.

That's a pretty good point. But the book also mentions at some point that the Fused have told people to watch out for specific types of spren (presumably radiantspren) and will kill/hurt them when they're found. Honestly, it could go either way. 

Edited July 6, 2018 by StrikerEZ

[CrazyRioter she/her]

They are specifically trying to hunt down and stop spren that are trying to bond with people I think.

[Calderis he/him]

I don't know what they're looking for, but I doubt it's another city. 

The Dawncities are singer cities. Stolen and appropriated. 

[SzethIsBadAsHell he/him]

1 hour ago, CrazyRioter said:

 

They are specifically trying to hunt down and stop spren that are trying to bond with people I think.

 

A spren can move , especially a cryptic , tearing up a wall to find one is not very logical when they have spren to hunt it down.

 

59 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I don't know what they're looking for, but I doubt it's another city. 

The Dawncities are singer cities. Stolen and appropriated. 

Never heard mention of dawn cities , can you elaborate.

 

2 hours ago, RShara said:

I think that Gavilar's source of black spheres is under the palace and that's what they're looking for.

You are second person that mention Gavilar black spheres? I was under the impression he only had one {BAM] was inside. Are other Unmade in them or what?

[hypatia she/her]

With the epilogue it seems to be obvious they are looking for this spren - for me a little bit too obvious.

They also aren't really 'looking'  - if the Fused want to find a spren in a city full of spren shouldn't they tell the workers what to look out for?

Or supervice the area personally?

For me - whatever the reason is - this endangers this little pattern, but this just doesn't look like a search especially for a spren.

Moash or one of the  Parshmen can see a pattern on a stone and then what? They aren't able to trap or kill it and I really don't think one of them will try to bind it - so I can't see a point other then the possibility that perhaps they would tell a Fused about it - and even that is unsure, because does anyone working there know about Cryptics?

I think they are working on a greater plot and the spren is just a deviation.

[Wandering Investor]

@SzethIsBadAsHell Gavilar was seen with two spheres containing what appears to be voidlight. One he gave to Eshonai, the other to Szeth. Somewhat confusingly, he warned Szeth "they must not get it" whoever they are, even though he had already given one out to Eshonai with no warning. WoB confirmed that the gem given to Szeth was hidden in another city an has already ran out. One theory is that Gavilar had access to an unmade trapped beneath the palace, possibly BAM due to a quote about BAM providing voidlight to the parsh, and can obtain voidlight from the unmade. 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Wandering Investor

[Calderis he/him]

6 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

WoB confirmed that the gem given to Szeth was hidden in another city an has already ran out.

What? I have to go look for this now, I didn't know we had any reference at all to Voidlight "running out" 

Edit: the only one I can find says the opposite. 

Quote

TheKingOfCarrotFlowers (paraphrased)

The sphere which Gavilar found that Szeth now has--I've been lead to believe that it either is or was heavily invested...

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

TheKingOfCarrotFlowers (paraphrased)

Is it still heavily invested?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

TheKingOfCarrotFlowers (paraphrased)

So, it hasn't, like, gone dun or anything?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, it has not.

TheKingOfCarrotFlowers (paraphrased)

And I'm going to take that to mean it wasn't invested with Stormlight--was it invested by Odium?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Something like that.

source

@Wandering Investor I have a bunch of ideas on Voidlight, if you know of one that reads differently I would really like to see it, cause it would probably be more recent than this one from 2015 and would mean reworking a lot of my ideas.

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Calderis

[RShara she/her]

1 hour ago, Wandering Investor said:

@SzethIsBadAsHell Gavilar was seen with two spheres containing what appears to be voidlight. One he gave to Eshonai, the other to Szeth. Somewhat confusingly, he warned Szeth "they must not get it" whoever they are, even though he had already given one out to Eshonai with no warning. WoB confirmed that the gem given to Szeth was hidden in another city an has already ran out. One theory is that Gavilar had access to an unmade trapped beneath the palace, possibly BAM due to a quote about BAM providing voidlight to the parsh, and can obtain voidlight from the unmade. 

Yeah I'm curious for this WoB too, because it doesn't sound familiar

Latest WoBs seem to imply that it isn't an Unmade in the gems. However, it's still possible he had access to an Unmade and that's how he was filling the gems.

Quote

Chaos [PENDING REVIEW]

Do you need a perfect gemstone to imprison an Unmade or a powerful spren?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yeah. Well...the stronger the spren, the better the gemstone needs to be. Those flaws in the crystal structure are going to lead to leaking if it's not. But an Unmade requires an extra-special level of perfection.

source

 

[Wandering Investor]

@Calderis @RShara The problem is quoting WoB's from memory is that the Keepers of the 17thShard call you out on them, and then you can't find them. (its not a problem, yall are awesome). Search in progress, but now I'm doubting my memory. I recall it saying the stone was hidden in Jah Kaved but had gone dun shortly after. I'm suspecting this is incorrect, or from another source than WoB. I remember being disappointed after reading it, because I thought the gemstone was special, which is the only reason I remember it, cause it was quite awhile ago.

[Calderis he/him]

8 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

@Calderis @RShara The problem is quoting WoB's from memory is that the Keepers of the 17thShard call you out on them, and then you can't find them. (its not a problem, yall are awesome). Search in progress, but now I'm doubting my memory. I recall it saying the stone was hidden in Jah Kaved but had gone dun shortly after. I'm suspecting this is incorrect, or from another source than WoB. I remember being disappointed after reading it, because I thought the gemstone was special, which is the only reason I remember it, cause it was quite awhile ago.

No worries, not trying to call you out, just want to know if it exists because it changes things that are in my head significantly if true. 

WoBs change. Until it's in book it's tentative. Just look at the Kandra/human reproduction topic. 

[RShara she/her]

Not a problem. I've misremembered plenty of WoBs myself

[ZenBossanova]

10 hours ago, Calderis said:

I don't know what they're looking for, but I doubt it's another city. 

The Dawncities are singer cities. Stolen and appropriated. 

It could be proof these were originally Singer cities. That would reinforce their claim. 

Or, it could be part of the Oathgate fabrial. 

[Gasper he/him]

Or it could be a Dawnshard.

[SzethIsBadAsHell he/him]

10 minutes ago, Gasper said:

Or it could be a Dawnshard.

I think one of the Dawnshards is on Aimia . It’s why the island is so protected . If one is beneath Kholinar wouldn’t u think it would equally guarded by Cultivation

[Gasper he/him]

 

1 minute ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

I think one of the Dawnshards is on Aimia . It’s why the island is so protected . If one is beneath Kholinar wouldn’t u think it would equally guarded by Cultivation

It would be hiding it in plain sight, plus there is an Oathgate in Aimia, probably in their version of a dawncity.

[ScavellTane]

Dai-gonarthis = (one of the) Dawnshard

Dai-gonarthis is said to have caused the destruction of Aimia and the Dawnshards were aluded to have been used to destroy Aimia.

Dai-gonarthis may/may not be an Unmade.

My overall theory is that all the Unmade (9) + Nightwatcher + Stormfather + Sibling + Cusisech + Dai-gonarthis + 2 more unknown greatspren were the Dawnshards (total 16)

All references to the term shard has been pointing to investiture. In the context of Roshar, Dawnshard could easily be a reference to great/god spren 'Made' by Adonalsium.

 

[Bort he/him]

I also recall Szeth hiding the sphere in Jah Keved, but that's an entire country, not just a city.

I think the spheres held voidspren, and the one given to Eshonai was how Venli discovered stormform. There is a comment saying they learned to trap spren from the humans so I think it makes sense. 

I still prefer my 'Unmade are Heralds' theory (in my signature) but thats an interesting idea about Dai'gonarthis.