Taln's Identity

[dyring]

Argent

 

Arrives at the warcamp? Him being exchanged after arriving to the warcamp a possibility?

[Argent he/him]

Argent

 

Arrives at the warcamp? Him being exchanged after arriving to the warcamp a possibility?

 

I suppose, but such development is really stretching the realm of plausibility.

[FingerstyleFunk he/him]

First, why is Gift capitalized? More importantly, though, is the second part where he says the words were never his but now they are.

 

Here's a thought on the Gift/words that occurred to me after reading your post, and might explain him stumbling over the mention of Jezrien's responsibilities.

 

It's possible that the "words" that were "never his" really are just the mantra he keeps repeating, and in every other desolation ever they were assigned to Jezrien as the leader of the heralds. Taln's recitation is thrown off because this is a different configuration of the speech than he's ever heard before, simply because he's the only herald to return to Roshar via the Oathpact this time.

 

Doesn't give any help at all about what the "Gift" is, though.

 

But none of this sounds in line with the Nightwatcher's Curse/Boon deal, so I'm hesitant about it being some kind of never-before-seen-on-Roshar mind-switching/melding magic from the Nightwatcher or any other source. But hey, maybe someone should be keeping an eye out for a soulstamp/plaque?

[-Deleted-]

I'm pretty sure he's Taln. And if he isn't, he's still very important to watch. But it makes too much sense for him not to be Taln. he even has the craziness you would expect a guy who just spent 4500 years in the Cosmere's Hell. 

[zandi she/her]

Oooh I like it . Or maybe Shai Forged Taln onto another body.

Actually I think this makes sense - It occurred to me as well anyway, so maybe that means it doesn't really make sense 

 

especially because:

Q. Is Shai on Roshar?

A. Hehehe, good question!

Q. Has she already popped up?

A. She has not already popped up.

Q. So she’s not a Radiant. Or is she?

A. You have not seen her on screen yet, other than in her story.

 

I

[Confused]

"Taln" is an Aimian who's made himself look like Taln. And he thinks he's Bill Murray waking up every morning to the same song on the radio.

[Frostlander]

WoB is that some of the chapter titles contain foreshadowing. I’m thinking particularly of Chatper 54 “Gibletish” of tWoK, which has Hoid and Taln as the chapter images.

 

The death rattle appears to be Taln himself:

“The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me.” —Dated Palaheses, 1173, unknown seconds pre-death. Subject: a wealthy lighteyes. Sample collected secondhand.”

 

The most interesting part of the chapter is a conversation Hoid has with Dalinar, where he asks Dalinar if he has ever heard the word Adonalsium. Dalinar notes that Hoid seems preoccupied and dismisses that word as

 

“Nonsense, Balderdash. Figgldygrak. Isn’t it odd that gibberish words are often the sounds of other words, cut up and dismembered, then stitched into something like them—yet wholly unlike them at the same time?”

 

He then goes on to say:

 

“I wonder if you could do that to a man. Pull him apart, emotion by emotion, bit by bit, bloody chunk by bloody chunk. Then combine them back together into something else, like a Dysian Aimian. If you do put a man together like that, Dalinar, be sure to name him Gibberish, after me. Or perhaps Gibletish.”

 

Is that why Sanderson keeps hinting that Taln is not actually Taln? Is he Gibletish? Has he been assembled as best as possible and it comes out as gibberish?

 

In Taln’s interlude in WoR, it’s been noticed that Wit and Chana have the chapter images. Still not sure why that is…

 

At any rate, is Hoid foreshadowing that Dalinar would be in possession of Taln (or Gibletish?) at some point? Feels like this all must mean something.

[corwin01]

Out of all the theories that have been proposed, I like this one best.

[dilburt]

Taln is Taln.  The person who appears as Taln is the Herald Talenel'Elin. He has superhuman reflexes, he knows things that would be very hard for a non-Herald to know, and he has been mentally broken which fits a Herald who has shouldered the burdens of all ten.  

     :

[snip]

    :

 

Sometimes the simple answer is the right answer.  I agree that Taln is Taln. There is no doubt that lots of strange things are going on but Brandon loves to stir up a good debate and the "...calls himself Taln" quote is probably an example of this.

 

D

[eshonai she/her]

 

At any rate, is Hoid foreshadowing that Dalinar would be in possession of Taln (or Gibletish?) at some point? Feels like this all must mean something.

 

 

really, really crazy theory:

 

is it possible that the Stormfather is Taln's cognitive aspect?

 

(or something)

[zandi she/her]

Sometimes the simple answer is the right answer.  I agree that Taln is Taln. There is no doubt that lots of strange things are going on but Brandon loves to stir up a good debate and the "...calls himself Taln" quote is probably an example of this.

 

D

true. very true.

 

But so much more fun to propose/discuss crazy theories! 

 

"Taln" is an Aimian who's made himself look like Taln. And he thinks he's Bill Murray waking up every morning to the same song on the radio.

 

*laughing* 

 

Seriously - could be an Aimian...Axies the Herald? No not Axies. But maybe an Aimian really could work.

 

 

WoB is that some of the chapter titles contain foreshadowing. I’m thinking particularly of Chatper 54 “Gibletish” of tWoK, which has Hoid and Taln as the chapter images.

 

The death rattle appears to be Taln himself:

 

The most interesting part of the chapter is a conversation Hoid has with Dalinar, where he asks Dalinar if he has ever heard the word Adonalsium. Dalinar notes that Hoid seems preoccupied and dismisses that word as

 

 

He then goes on to say:

 

 

Is that why Sanderson keeps hinting that Taln is not actually Taln? Is he Gibletish? Has he been assembled as best as possible and it comes out as gibberish?

 

In Taln’s interlude in WoR, it’s been noticed that Wit and Chana have the chapter images. Still not sure why that is…

 

At any rate, is Hoid foreshadowing that Dalinar would be in possession of Taln (or Gibletish?) at some point? Feels like this all must mean something.

 

Excellent points. I like this as well.

 

Anything Hoid says should be looked at carefully. *sigh* looks like I'm going to have to reread sooner rather than later.

 

Anyway -Maybe an Aimian/ or just Taln himself reassembled is the answer as said- seems to fit a lot of key things. The question would be if  an Aimian-  was he a willing or unwilling accomplice and if unwilling how he was brainwashed into believing his false identity? 

 

And (to me) most importantly, if it isn't Taln (though, yes, it could really be Taln) - who did it? and how?

 

Honestly I hope it is not Taln because it is a fun twist and I love how it ties into the Hoid quotes.  

[taliefer]

edit: came off way more negative than i intended.

 

basically it just seems odd that all this Taln misdirection seemed to come out of the blue. we knew the blades were swapped from their descriptions, but there seems very little evidence that taln isnt exactly who he appears to be.

Edited March 28, 2014 by taliefer

[Argent he/him]

No - all of this is based on Brandon absolutely refusing to acknowledge that person as being Taln. 

[taliefer]

sorry, i wasnt clear. i meant he seemed to offer up the fact that taln might not be taln on his own. people were asking about the blades being swapped and he seemed to throw out that maybe taln isnt taln. it just seems odd.

[zandi she/her]

sorry, i wasnt clear. i meant he seemed to offer up the fact that taln might not be taln on his own. people were asking about the blades being swapped and he seemed to throw out that maybe taln isnt taln. it just seems odd.

I interpreted that (and I'm probably wrong) as him saying the blades might not have been swapped at all - it isn't taln so he never had an honor blade. Which is why I thought other heralds would not be fooled. If it is not Taln I'm not sure who is supposed to be duped here - just the Alethi?

[eshonai she/her]

Of tangential relevance:

 

I'm pretty sure I figured out what 'gibletish' means: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4732-wor-secret-anagram-hoid-gibberish/?p=119799

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

Time to throw in two more cents! 

 

I've enjoyed all the references to the hoed for Taln, and I really like that line of thinking. There's quite a few parallels here.

 

Firstly, there's the repeating Hoed mantra, as been mentioned. After tthat, there's the possible option that the mantras were both caused by huge amounts of pain. Finally, the part that's been touched on briefly is how the hoed reacted to the aeons in the same way Taln reacted to Shallan's lightweaving. 

 

So let's get past me summing up everyone who agrees with me on the thread so far, and onto the meat of my theory. 

 

There's a WoB that states the spren's "death" is similar to the seon's madness. (I think the exact wording is something like "imagine it as a disease that is similar but caused by different bacteria.")

 

Well, I think Taln might be affected by another "similar disease."

 

The epigraph mentioned earlier referenced that could be Taln about the burden's of nine becoming his, which could be inferred to say that he is not only enduring the pain for himself, but the pain of all ten! That could certainly cause him to become hoed, but I think that's a little too simple. 

Take a look at this quote from WoK

 

"Ishar believes that so long as there is one of us still bound to the Oathpact, it may be enough. There is a chance we might end the cycle of desolations."

 

So that could mean that the Oathpact wasn't broken...yet. My thoery is that because he was still bonded to the Oathpact, when he finally left, that broke the Oathpact.  I also assume that because he had to bear the burdens of all nine, that he could've had also assumed the bond of all nine as well. This would make his bond to the Oathpact nine times as powerful (I'll admit I don't know that much about the Oathpact, if I'm mussing up the facts, if someone could point me to a thread to learn more I'd appreciate it.)

 

So after the other 9 had abondoned the Oathpact, he was left the only one bonded to it, and when he left from damnation, that shattered the Oathpact. This could be the event that helped shatter his mind, combined with all the torture. We assume that he's no longer bonded to the Honorblade, and from Szeth's last WoR appearance, we know that the spiritual bond to his blade needed to be broken for that to be the case. The shattering of the Oathpact severed his spiritual connection, and his mind, like how the spren lost their minds after their bonds with the bonded humans were broken.

 

 

"Your bond to your blade severed, all ties--both spiritual and physical--undone. You are reborn."

 

 

Reborn. With all of the ties severed, that could be interpreted as Szeth, and by association according to my theory, Taln, as being new people. They refer to themselves as their former lives, but they aren't the same. Especially Taln, whose spiritual and cognitive aspects have been shattered. 

[Crazy Mraize]

New to the forums - and wow, can I just say everyone, I'm so glad to have found these.

On to my take - In my opinion Taln at the gates is Taln in the camp. Which I think has been confirmed by WoB, but just to add my two cents. Upon his arrival the gates "the gates shook. Something pounded on them from outside...the gate shook again, as if something enormous were outside...all was chaos and confusion as the gate thumped yet a third time, powerful, shaking, vibrating as if hit with a boulder." He is later described by Shallan as having hulking arms, hands that could crush her like a cremling, and Amaram described him as enormous, built like a wall.

Anyway, the man described at the gates, strong enough to make the gates shake by simply pounding on them, matches the man who's physical strengths and speed are noted at the camp. What I think is interesting was folks thinking some how another Herald is in his place. Not sure they can even do that, but Jezeren was noted only for his beard and regal appearance in the prelude, and that he's drooling made by Nalan. Some think Kalak is the wounded bridgeman who spoke Alethi, (or has that been confirmed)- if he was indeed that wounded bridgeman why wouldn't he show those reflexes and hulking nature? Can't be Nalan. None of these men exhibit this strength and speed (though Lift noted that Nalan moved quicker than he should).

No, what I think is more likely, and as hit upon in the post above by EmTrevor, is much like the Hoed who were broken, and Brandon being coy about saying the person who claims to be Taln, and the fact that we see throughout the novel you can be called a Radiant, but not be one until ready - I wonder if Taln can't be Taln until he is unbroken? Perhaps like how the city of Elantris' power was restored?

Complete side note, but while in some chapter icons the images seem to align to a herald being present, there are others they are not. Like Interlude 8 - A form of Power - just has Eshonai present, yet there are pictures of Nalan I believe? Seems odd. Throws into question why we see Chach and Hoid on Interlude-7.

[RShara she/her]

(Psst, wall o text )

 

The only semi-plausible explanation I can think of is if a hemalurgic spike can contain Identity, maybe whoever this is was spiked with one of those, that has Taln's memories in it.  Or, the spike is allowing Something Else to speak through him.

Though you'd think someone would have noticed a hunk of metal sticking through him lol.

 

Hey crazy theory!  Maybe the spike-like sword is also a hemalurgic spike!

[Awesomeness Summoned he/him]

I seriously doubt Brandon will use hemalurgy in such an open way in the series. He does want stormlight to be self contained and have the cosmere info be more background stuff. Nightblood can be explained away as just a strange shardblade. A metal spike giving someone knowledge when jammed through the body would require quite a bit more info dumping about the cosmere than I'd expect Brandon plans to do for stormlight.

[Necromancer he/him]

Perhaps this "Taln" is a Herald with multiple personality disorder, and one of the personalities is Taln? It's one way of going insane with guilt...

If he's a Herald, I think it won't matter so much which one right? They would all defend humans. The real problem would occur if he is not a Herald, but pretending to be Taln.

[RShara she/her]

He thinks he's Taln at the least, so he isn't pretending on purpose.  Would there be a relevant difference there, I wonder?

[DocHoliday he/him]

The thing I'm curious about is whether BS was hinting that Taln dosnt think he's Taln. We've been talking about compartmentalizing of the mind after all. 

We have a example in WoK of Kaladin the wretch thinking that Kaladin Stormblessed was a dead man, due to his failure with Amaran. 

I'm seeing an interesting parallel between Kaladin and Taln viewing themselves as failures, and cognitively as different people.

[Falconite]

I haven't posted on this thread having not had a strong opinion either way...  but something popped into my mind this morning from re-reading the WoB the other day...

 

One of the WoB mentions Honorblades don't disappear when dropped.  The only real evidence we have to this is Kaladin killing Szeth, and Jezrien's Honorblade dropping in the air and whatever bond Szeth had to the blade was broken (I assume).  In the prelude to tWoK - Taln died (as far as we know).  Would it be logical to assume that Taln's bond to his Honorblade was broken at that point?  (again, I'm no expert on this, and apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere, but I couldn't see it anywhere).

 

Whereby, when he comes out of the desolation and goes to the gate and has another "blade" (the cleaver shaped one).  I strongly suspect that wasn't his Honorblade, being that he wouldn't have been bonded to it (as he'd died in the desolation 4.5k years ago).  I have no idea where he would have got a Shardblade from though...  Do we know that it was even a Shardblade though?  i.e. as far as I recall (I'd have to check tWoK and don't have it with me right now), it wasn't glowing, therefore it would be unlikely to be a sprenblade.  But when he dropped it (when he fell unconscious), it didn't puff to mist i.e. it acted like an Honorblade, but unless the bond somehow goes with them when they die - how did he get it back?  Does this mean Szeth will be able to re-summon Jezrien's one that Kaladin has?  I'm wondering if the cleaver shaped sword is something else?  he's the herald of war, and he's come out of damnation of 4.5k years...  maybe it's a big massive sword he somehow managed to get whilst there...  a giant cleaver sounds like a great torturing device...

 

As for the spike shaped one - not sure where that has come from - they refer to it as "Taln's" blade - but for all we know it could be anyones...  It could have been planted by Wit (notice I didn't say swapped, because we don't actually know if the other one was even moved), or by anyone.  The origins are interesting, because who would willingly give up a shardblade for someone else to bond...

 

I'm not sure - I don't know the answers, but something odd is happening here...

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

Heralds don't die like normal people though. They're just sent for torture to Braize. So the bond isn't ever cut, really. That's also why Honorblades disappear instead of dropping when their Herald dies – the Blade is off in Damnation with them. When Szeth is killed, he's truly killed, so the Blade drops like any other Shardblade.