[Theory] It has been foreshadowed that Adolin will be a Radiant.

[Moogle]

Hm, he thinks, but that could change. There goes my theory of Tarah the Lightweaver. ..  And I wanted there to be some random surgebinder we never heard of. Meh, I'll live with it. Hm, although it could mean we'll see people who won't make it all the way to being KR, which does not exclude new unknown surgebinders... I'll stop over-analyzing now   Thanks for the quote!

 

I think you're misinterpreting the WoB. The WoB is in the context of whether we've seen a member from all of the Orders. All it seems to say is that we've seen people who will eventually be members of each of the ten Orders. That is, we've seen someone who will be a Dustbringer, we've seen someone who will be a Willshaper, etc.

 

It would be very weird if it meant there will be no Radiant characters that we haven't seen. There's eight books to go!

 

The last one is probably Hoid (he lightweaved the smoke I believe), yet that's a different WoB than the other two I pointed; there's still room for a Lightweaver in Kal's past. If Kal knows 2 LW in the meaning of people able to lightweave, that's false because he knows 3: Renarin, Hoid and Shallan (the WoB about 2 is post-WoR, so Ren counts). Therefor Brandon must have meant Kal knowing two people that belong to the LW Order. 

 

I agree. It's basically logically ruled out that Hoid is the second Lightweaver Kaladin knows at this point, to say nothing of Peter implying he isn't as well.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Moogle

[Aleksiel]

I think you're misinterpreting the WoB. The WoB is in the context of whether we've seen a member from all of the Orders. All it seems to say is that we've seen people who will eventually be members of each of the ten Orders. That is, we've seen someone who will be a Dustbringer, we've seen someone who will be a Willshaper, etc.

 

It would be very weird if it meant there will be no Radiant characters that we haven't seen. There's eight books to go!

 

Ah, you're right! The 'all' is about the Orders, not the Radiants. Yeah, it would have been very weird otherwise, but I assumed it'd be only for the first five since the second five will have different set of characters. I wonder when Brandon said that - before or after WoR? Does he count the Heralds as having seen members of all Orders? 

[Guest]

It tells us DB broke their oaths, DB likely had squires, Dalinar hadn't seen in his visions any other Plate resembling another he's seen in his life, so no DB, WR or SW Plates in Alethkar or with the Parshendi. That's all that comes to my mind for now.

 

Dalinar would not comment on seeing a plate looking like Aladar's for instance... He comments on it because it is Adolin, his son. I am also thinking it is quite possible Adolin's plate, coming from her mother's family who aren't Alethi may be of a different design.

 

 

Wasn't it said in WoR in the excerpt from in-world Words of Radiance that they were misunderstood? I think it did. If they tried to distance themselves from the unflattering public opinion about themselves (even by using a different name for the Order) then they couldn't have been so rude, right?

 

I think they were misunderstood and people are currently thinking they were some mean and rude fellows. I am thinking they were the exact opposite. If I am right and their duty is to correct the wrongs, to be brave enough to do the right things, no matter what they may entails and if to do such thing, they heavily rely on their strong intuition and their fifth sense, then they would need to be very kind and good-hearted individuals. Giving such power to miscreant would lead to a catastrophe. Adolin would make an awesome Dustbringer as he would never hurt an innocent of use his power for evil motives.

 

 

Maybe it's not much of an evidence, but shouldn't we remember that Lift is a confirmed Edgedancer? And she is exactly easy-going, frivolous, chill and not much concerned with bigger matters. I know she's very young and will propably become more focused or serious as she grows up (if she meets and spends time with the other Radiants, because on her own I think she's going to remain more or less the way she is), but still it's rather the defining part of her personality.

 

In fact, I believe that Adolin has potential to fit in both Orders - the Edgedancers and the Dustbringers.  The evidence is strong in both cases which makes it the more interesting to discuss   Personally, I see him as our Releaser but I see why he may be considered to be an Edgedancer. But as I said earlier in this thread, I believe we are going to see only one Radiant of every Order (at least in the first 5 books), so since Lift is the Edgedancer, Adolin would propably be the Dustbringer (on the other note, do we have any other possible Dustbringers? ones that would actually make sense in this case).

 

As for the Sadeas' murder part, we have WoB that Willshapers would take him (but I don't think he could be one of those) and I think we can be sure that Dustbringers would accept it as well (I'm not sure if it's officially confirmed or just it simply makes sense). I think one way to help solve the Edgedancer vs Dustbringer discussion is to ask Brandon whether or not Edgedancers would accept what Adolin did

 

Lift is one counter-argument to the Adolin is an Edgedancer theory. For one, Lift is confirmed as our main Edgedancer. Now, it is not clear how many knights we are going to see, but I do think they will only be one main member from each order. Having Adolin as another Edgedancer makes him redundant. We already saw some of the Edgedancers powers during the Lift interlude and we are going to see more in her future interlude until she becomes a major player. It does not make sense to have Adolin evolving into an Edgedancer in parallel of Lift.

 

You are right in saying Lift is a very carefree person. Adolin is not. He wants to be, but he is just not. Adolin crumbles under the weight of duty and wishes it wasn't his, but ultimately, he does as he needs to. Dalinar once summarized it quite well: duty falls on us not when we want it, but when it is needed.

 

We have a WoB confirming the Dustbrigners and the Willshapers would approve of Adolin's actions.

 

I do not believe we have any other potential candidate for the Dustbringers. This has been strongly reinforce by Brandon's latest plans concerning the flashback characters: nobody fitting this order is currently set to feature. It could he'll change his mind, but as far as I know, he never mentioned any name that would make a good Dustbringer. Another reason to root for Adolin. Having already a strong POV, we could get to know this order through him without having to go through the flashbacks, that and the fact Adolin's breaking point is set in the future as opposed to as in the past for all of the others.

 

 

Yes, Lift is not concerned about bigger issues and Nalan confirmed that's typical about her Order. Adolin isn't concerned about the biggest issues either. Sure, he cares about his family, but he doesn't share Dalinar's passion about the faith of Aethkar or Roshar. Of course, he doesn't want them destroyed, but he doesn't spend time thinking about the bigger picture. He's not really looking forward being a Highprince. He'd prefer to just duel and wasn't keen on being a soldier.  His sense of duty begins and ends with his family and men, which fits Nalan's descriptions. Of course, we don't know if Releasers are concerned about larger than life issues...

 

I disagree. Adolin is concerned about the bigger issues. He has faith in his father's plan, it just took him a bit of time to accept it and of course he does not want to become a Highprince: he is a young man. He wants to be allowed to behave as one, but he can't. He keeps stating it is because of his father's exigences, but each time he is put to the test, he chooses duty. Duty does not always involved his family: he see as his duty to care for his soldiers and to make an example out other duelists in the arena.

 

Adolin is also a keen strategist and I believe we have only see the tip of the iceberg for this aspect. The way he deciphered his opponents and ended up picking a strategy worthy of raising the stakes was impressive. All the time he fought through his dueling spree, he never left sigh of his end goal: winning shards, teaching a lesson to the other lighteyes, fulfilling his father's grant plan. He does get the big picture.

 

 

I think a lot of people are arguing for Adolin being a Dustbringer just because it would be cool and he's a fighter and Dustbringer is the most destructive order. But i would like to point out that surges don't define the order attributes do, or Kal would be an Edgedancer, because he does a lot of healing. And even for his fighting skills edgedancer suits him better as edgedancers are defined as graceful and deadly which would make him a much much deadlier swordsman, while Dustbringers seem like people who just blow things up.

 

Dustbringer share the surge of Abraison with the Edgedancer. This surge is the one rendering the knights the ability to move super fast and to skim over water. The deadly aspect of their fighting is directly linked to that surge. I thus think the Dustbringers were as agile and quick as the Edgedancers, just like the Skybreakers fly as well as the Windrunners.

 

 

And he shares another thing with lift that he's not a complex character, he's not hard to read, he just wants to do the right thing, and dedicated to only what he likes - dueling (for lift it's food of course). He doesn't have a dark side. He did murder sadeas, but for now we don't know how that will affect him, he was doing the right thing after all. Dalinar, kaladin, jasnah, shallan all have that darkness built into their character, even Renarin gives me that vibe. Of course he won't be exactly like lift because radiants are still people.

As for Dustbringer attributes fitting him they would fit almost any of the main characters, even shallan as much as Adolin. And for me the bravest character is Kaladin, and most obedient szeth (who i think fits Dustbringers better).

 

I disagree. Adolin is a very complex character who keeps doing the unexpected. Sure, he projects a composed exterior doubled by a playful personality, but it is just a front. Sure, we see him wishing he could just relax and enjoy simple things, but these are exactly what they are: wishes. Adolin wants to be like Jakamav or Relis, but he isn't. He can't be like them and not just because Dalinar forces himt o behave differently, but because he cares for the bigger picture and he does see to duty first. He realized this, step by step, through both books. Deep down, Adolin is a very different person. He is kind and loving, but he is also dedicated, determined, concerned and very insecure. He does not let many people see this side of him, he even hides it even from Renarin (who may or may not be this easily fooled). The only time we truly saw him express his inner doubts is when he speaks with his Blade.

 

We do have an inkling on how Sadeas's murder will affect him: he will crumble over guilt. You claimed all of the other characters have a darkness, then so does Adolin and murdering Sadea highlighted it. He is a nice person, a kind person, but for a few moments, he became someone else, he became the avenger, but the worst thing is he just destroyed everything his father has ever tried to teach him. Dalinar won't easily forgive him and to lose the affection of his life-time hero and role-model will ultimately break him. Sure, Sadeas had to die, he had to do it: it was right. It was just the completion of everything he has ever been doing: fixing wrongs everywhere he goes, but this one is the first one that directly conflicts with his father's view.

 

 

As for Dustbringer attributes fitting him they would fit almost any of the main characters, even shallan as much as Adolin. And for me the bravest character is Kaladin, and most obedient szeth (who i think fits Dustbringers better).

 

I think we have to look at the first attribute to determine who should belong to which order. Kaladin is brave, but not for the shake of being brave. He is brave when he has to protect someone. He is not one to uselessly through his life away over a gamble, but he won't go seek out the adrenaline in times of peace. Adolin loves dueling, the art of combat, the beautiful dance against a skillful opponent and the adrenaline rush it procures... He is impulsive and brash, but kind, which is exactly what I believe a good Dustbringer must be: brave enough to do what is right, but kind enough not to abuse.

[Guest]

Ah, you're right! The 'all' is about the Orders, not the Radiants. Yeah, it would have been very weird otherwise, but I assumed it'd be only for the first five since the second five will have different set of characters. I wonder when Brandon said that - before or after WoR? Does he count the Heralds as having seen members of all Orders? 

 

After. He said it recently, if my memory serves me right. I do not think he counts the Heralds... I think this WoB means we have indeed met of main crew of ten, but not all have attracted their sprens yet. Szeth does not have one yet, perhaps not Eshonai and certainly not Adolin, providing he ends up joining their ranks.

[lol_king he/him]

I didn't say Adolin is a flat character, just that he is not as conflicted as the others, comparatively speaking. he has depth, and he's written pretty well that doesn't mean he's complex. He is a character we can trust to do the right thing, he's like breath of fresh air among all these characters we keep wondering about what they will do. For example: Will kaladin tell dalinar about Amaram or not? Or about being a radiant? Will shallan join the ghostbloods? How come jasnah can stand up to an entire mysterious and powerful organization by herself? And what's the deal with her and men? And what the heck is going on un Renarins devious mind? We don't know (until the story tells us) and we keep wondering, Adolin is comparatively pretty straightforward.

And bravery for the sake of being brave is not bravery. Shallan is shown as pretty timid and under a ptsd type situation in her flashbacks, yet she does so many things for her family, she even kills her own father to protect her family. She goes around the world after jasnah the heretic, an enigma and one of the most powerful people in the world to steal her soulcaster even though she hasn't even left her fathers estate before in her life. That's what i call being brave, doing something even when you're afraid. I don't think we see Adolin being overly brave, his stunts during fighting can be defined as recklessness and (over)confidence. And When he rescued the prostitute, he had a sbardblade and he was Adolin kholin, he didn't have to be brave to do it.

Edit: and i accidentally downvoted someone again, this time moogle. Someone balance that please.

Edited October 30, 2014 by lol_king

[Fedelpen]

I read them all and I have to go with Dustbringer.

 

Case for Edgedancer: they are warriors, they would probably accept him, Adolin is unusually caring about other people, and his sword. I also love the idea of him reviving his sword, and it appears to be an Edgedancer blade and spren. 

 

But, Dustbringer feels more like him. They are also warriors, and seem more so. Adolin is all about duty and obedience and doing the right thing, and that fits well with the signature Dustbringer qualities. It would be simple enough for Adolin to lose his Blade, perhaps upon banishment. Unless Adolin suddenly switches to struggling to figure out how to mend relationships and struggling to care about everyone, Edgedancer just doesn't quite fit. But it's close. He really could be either one.

 

I'm also going to toss out skybreaker again. Just and confident. He's cocky, alright. And he does the right thing. 

 

But still. Dustbringer. But it will all depend on how he goes through his breaking point; he could emerge anywhere. The one place I can't imagine is back to being a Highprince good at dueling. He's got a lot of potential there, but it's potential and conflict and development not used to its fullest. 

 

I think the main thing for me is that he's not just set to be good at combat. He's set to be the best. Absolutely epic. Able to exchange blows with a Herald, taking down the big beasts, making heroic charges. He's at the front lines, leading his men. While Edgedancers can fight, they aren't that. Adolin = epic = Dustbringer. 

 

And besides that, either Edgedancer or Skybreaker would require him to change his focus. Not just refocus and get in tune with himself, but completely rearrange his primary values. There are strong elements there for each, but while he could be molded to them, he already fits with Dustbringer.

[Aleksiel]

I think they were misunderstood and people are currently thinking they were some mean and rude fellows. I am thinking they were the exact opposite. If I am right and their duty is to correct the wrongs, to be brave enough to do the right things, no matter what they may entails and if to do such thing, they heavily rely on their strong intuition and their fifth sense, then they would need to be very kind and good-hearted individuals. Giving such power to miscreant would lead to a catastrophe. Adolin would make an awesome Dustbringer as he would never hurt an innocent of use his power for evil motives.

 

Doing the right thing doesn't equal being kind and good-hearted. 

 

I imagine DB to be the embodiment of 'you have to be cruel to be kind', which is bound to make them misunderstood and unappreciated.

 

 

 

Lift is one counter-argument to the Adolin is an Edgedancer theory. For one, Lift is confirmed as our main Edgedancer. Now, it is not clear how many knights we are going to see, but I do think they will only be one main member from each order. Having Adolin as another Edgedancer makes him redundant. We already saw some of the Edgedancers powers during the Lift interlude and we are going to see more in her future interlude until she becomes a major player. It does not make sense to have Adolin evolving into an Edgedancer in parallel of Lift.

 

You are right in saying Lift is a very carefree person. Adolin is not. He wants to be, but he is just not. Adolin crumbles under the weight of duty and wishes it wasn't his, but ultimately, he does as he needs to. Dalinar once summarized it quite well: duty falls on us not when we want it, but when it is needed.

 

It was never said that there will be one main Radiant per Order and Lift is not care-free. You can't be care-free when you live alone on the streets not knowing when you'll get your next meal or find shelter. She looks care-free, which is different and similar to Adolin. Don't forget Radiants are their own persons and it's unreasonable to expect all members of an Order to be the same. Similar yes, but outright copy-paste personality.

 

 

We have a WoB confirming the Dustbrigners and the Willshapers would approve of Adolin's actions.

 

Correction, the WoB is Willshappers only. The clarification of Dustbringers got a small nod according to the person there, but that's sujective if you ask me. Nonetheless I think the DB would approve or at least accept it, just wanted to be clear on the WoB. However, keep in mind that it's perfectly fine for Adolin to not act accordingly to his future Order ideal since he's bondless. What he did might change him to become a Radiant, it's not a necessity to already be acting according to certain Ideals.

 

 

 

I do not believe we have any other potential candidate for the Dustbringers. This has been strongly reinforce by Brandon's latest plans concerning the flashback characters: nobody fitting this order is currently set to feature. It could he'll change his mind, but as far as I know, he never mentioned any name that would make a good Dustbringer. Another reason to root for Adolin. Having already a strong POV, we could get to know this order through him without having to go through the flashbacks, that and the fact Adolin's breaking point is set in the future as opposed to as in the past for all of the others.

 

I know Eshonai is popular for Willshapper, but I don't believe she'll end up being the first non-human Radiant despite her arc being fit to tell us more on WS, we still need an actual WS. But I won't argue if you think she's our future WS. Who's the SW? Taln doesn't count as Radiant. Adolin could fit here in the future - he didn't back down on the 4vs1, in time he might develop the SW never-give-up attitude. I don't see any character fitting for SW

 

 

 

I disagree. Adolin is concerned about the bigger issues. He has faith in his father's plan, it just took him a bit of time to accept it and of course he does not want to become a Highprince: he is a young man. He wants to be allowed to behave as one, but he can't. He keeps stating it is because of his father's exigences, but each time he is put to the test, he chooses duty. Duty does not always involved his family: he see as his duty to care for his soldiers and to make an example out other duelists in the arena.

 

Of course he gets the bigger picture, he's not stupid, but that's not what I meant. Adolin cares about the bigger issues because of his father. If it wasn't for Dalinar, Adolin wouldn't care to 'unite them' or make a grand march against the Parshedi between highstorms. He'd duel and drink wine with pretty girls. For what it's worth, Kaladin isn't big-picture kind of guy either. It's not an insult or a bad thing.

 

 

 

I think we have to look at the first attribute to determine who should belong to which order. Kaladin is brave, but not for the shake of being brave. He is brave when he has to protect someone. He is not one to uselessly through his life away over a gamble, but he won't go seek out the adrenaline in times of peace. Adolin loves dueling, the art of combat, the beautiful dance against a skillful opponent and the adrenaline rush it procures... He is impulsive and brash, but kind, which is exactly what I believe a good Dustbringer must be: brave enough to do what is right, but kind enough not to abuse.

 

Exactly the same with Adolin - he isn't barave for the sake of being brave either. Otherwise he'd enjoy hunting as a way to show his courage.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

I read them all and I have to go with Dustbringer.

 

Case for Edgedancer: they are warriors, they would probably accept him, Adolin is unusually caring about other people, and his sword. I also love the idea of him reviving his sword, and it appears to be an Edgedancer blade and spren. 

 

But, Dustbringer feels more like him. They are also warriors, and seem more so. Adolin is all about duty and obedience and doing the right thing, and that fits well with the signature Dustbringer qualities. It would be simple enough for Adolin to lose his Blade, perhaps upon banishment. Unless Adolin suddenly switches to struggling to figure out how to mend relationships and struggling to care about everyone, Edgedancer just doesn't quite fit. But it's close. He really could be either one.

 

I'm also going to toss out skybreaker again. Just and confident. He's cocky, alright. And he does the right thing. 

 

But still. Dustbringer. But it will all depend on how he goes through his breaking point; he could emerge anywhere. The one place I can't imagine is back to being a Highprince good at dueling. He's got a lot of potential there, but it's potential and conflict and development not used to its fullest. 

 

I think the main thing for me is that he's not just set to be good at combat. He's set to be the best. Absolutely epic. Able to exchange blows with a Herald, taking down the big beasts, making heroic charges. He's at the front lines, leading his men. While Edgedancers can fight, they aren't that. Adolin = epic = Dustbringer. 

 

And besides that, either Edgedancer or Skybreaker would require him to change his focus. Not just refocus and get in tune with himself, but completely rearrange his primary values. There are strong elements there for each, but while he could be molded to them, he already fits with Dustbringer.

Actually, the Edgedancers are described as epic warriors But I agree, to become one Adolin would have to rearrange his priorities and abilities quite much (in regard of healing) to become one of them. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't see it just yet (though we don't know how the murder will affect him and how it will change him - because it will change him in one way or another - so everything is possible).

As for Skybreakers - they are all about the law. Adolin is brave and he is caring, but he's not focused on justice and lawfulness (not nearly as much as the other two). Besides, Nale is more likely to hunt Adolin down for killing Sadeas than letting him become a Skybreaker They are not an Order that would approve of murder. While I'm not sure about most other Orders, I'm confident that Skybreakers and Windrunners wouldn't approve of Sadeas' murder (first ones because it was against the law and the second ones because of the way it was done - if it were a fair fight then Windrunners would propably be ok, but not as it was, that's my opinion).

I'm actually convinced that it's the matter of Edgedancer or Dustbringer as those two suit the best. Personally, I'm in the Dustbringer camp   But I guess Edgedancer Adolin would be cool too (but only if he awoke his Blade to become one...)

 

 

Doing the right thing doesn't equal being kind and good-hearted. 

 

I imagine DB to be the embodiment of 'you have to be cruel to be kind', which is bound to make them misunderstood and unappreciated.

 

Actually, I don't see DB as particuraly kind as well... But most definitely not cruel. In my mind they are usually stern and stubborn about their opinions (so they do what they consider right no matter what) and quite propably also kind of harsh on others and rude but in good intentions.

 

 

It was never said that there will be one main Radiant per Order and Lift is not care-free. You can't be care-free when you live alone on the streets not knowing when you'll get your next meal or find shelter. She looks care-free, which is different and similar to Adolin. Don't forget Radiants are their own persons and it's unreasonable to expect all members of an Order to be the same. Similar yes, but outright copy-paste personality.

 

No it was never said, it's just assumed that there will be one main Radiant per Order. Mostly for the sake of diversity - it'd would be boring to read two big storylines about, say Lightweavers as we would see only the same set of powers, while a Lightweaver and Willshaper would be much more interesting to read as we would have two different sets of abilities to see. In every book I read (but it may not be very good argument since SA is teh first work of Brandon that I've read so I may not know if it's the case for him as well) the main characters were very diverse - each had different powers/abilities (assuming there were different powers to choose from).

 

 

Correction, the WoB is Willshappers only. The clarification of Dustbringers got a small nod according to the person there, but that's sujective if you ask me. Nonetheless I think the DB would approve or at least accept it, just wanted to be clear on the WoB. However, keep in mind that it's perfectly fine for Adolin to not act accordingly to his future Order ideal since he's bondless. What he did might change him to become a Radiant, it's not a necessity to already be acting according to certain Ideals.

 

True. Personally it makes me think that he didn't want to speak openly about Dustbringers so as not to give too big hint on what he's planning (but that may be only my wishful thinking). I mean, why openly answer the question on one Order and avoid answering the same one for a different Order? There must be something to that...

Actually, I believe that no Order would take someone who went against their directives too much. I mean, the spren choose who to bond and they look for certain qualities. So if Adolin did something that say, Stonewardens wouldn't approve of then the spren wouldn't think him to be a good candidate to be a Stonewarden. Ok, I'm not sure if I'm making my point in an understanable way... It's just that I'm convinced that to become a Radiant of a certain Order you may not necessarily have to live exactly by their directives but you can't act completely against them or you are unworthyof joining this Order.

[Kyats Rani she/her]

Sorry for two posts, but my computer refused to cooperate so I had to finish in a second one

 

I know Eshonai is popular for Willshapper, but I don't believe she'll end up being the first non-human Radiant despite her arc being fit to tell us more on WS, we still need an actual WS. But I won't argue if you think she's our future WS. Who's the SW? Taln doesn't count as Radiant. Adolin could fit here in the future - he didn't back down on the 4vs1, in time he might develop the SW never-give-up attitude. I don't see any character fitting for SW

True, we didn't. I also don't really see Eshonai as a Radiant, but I won't be mad if she ends up being one. Once I thought Rysn to be the Willshaper (but there is no evidence to this whatsoever, it was just that I wanted her to be), but I don't really see any candidates. But since there is a solid candidate for a Dustbringer then I assume it's possible. I mean - Adolin is the most likely to be our Dustbringer out of all the characters we have seen, so he may become one. But I wouldn't mind him being a Stonewarden as well - Cohesion and Tension seem cool. And he can be associated with dependable(his men depend on him o the battlefield and his family did depend on him to win duels for shards and he tried his best not to fail their trust - he didn't fail them so we can say they could depend on him)/resourceful(if we assume that it means that he can find a way out of the dire situation then he is very resourceful as he proved numerous times on the battlefield). In fact, depending on the direction he's going to head from now on he may become a Stonewarden. That's the third solid possibility.
Besides, Brandon seems focused on saying that the person who's claimed to be Taln is not the real Taln. There are many theories, but we can't rule out the possibility that it's actually someone who's going to become the Stonewarden...

 

 

Exactly the same with Adolin - he isn't barave for the sake of being brave either. Otherwise he'd enjoy hunting as a way to show his courage.

Actually he prefers duels to hunting because he believes that there is more bravery in standing against a worthy opponent in one on one combat than in a whole army ambushing one creature. But in fact - the concept of bravery for the sole sake of being brave is lame. I define the true bravery as the ability to act despite being afraid, to overcome own fear. He knows he's not immortal or unbeatable, he fears that something may go wrong, that he may die, but it doesn't stop him. He doesn't flinch or back down - he is brave. But not for the sake of bravery itself but to become a better person, a more reliable commander, a more efficient fighter.

[Guest]

I didn't say Adolin is a flat character, just that he is not as conflicted as the others, comparatively speaking. he has depth, and he's written pretty well that doesn't mean he's complex. He is a character we can trust to do the right thing, he's like breath of fresh air among all these characters we keep wondering about what they will do. For example: Will kaladin tell dalinar about Amaram or not? Or about being a radiant? Will shallan join the ghostbloods? How come jasnah can stand up to an entire mysterious and powerful organization by herself? And what's the deal with her and men? And what the heck is going on un Renarins devious mind? We don't know (until the story tells us) and we keep wondering, Adolin is comparatively pretty straightforward.

 

Thanks for explaining. I misunderstood the point you were trying to make. Although I do not think Adolin is as straighforward as you seem to think. He has had less spotlight then Kaladin and Shallan. We have barely started to see what is going on in his head and from the glimpses we've got, I would hesitate to call him simple. There is a lot going on with Adolin... What is the deal with his mother's necklace? How come is he unable to keep a woman interested in him for more then a few days? How is it he burns through relationships this quickly when we know the one thing he wants the most is to make it work with one girl? What's the deal with his father? He loves him, but isn't this blinded admiration he has towards his father a little unhealthy? How is it he started training with the swords years before his time? How about murdering Sadeas? What will he do with this?

 

I think there are just as many uncertainties around Adolin as there are around Shallan, Kaladin and Renarin. The main difference is Adolin has not been broken or overly trialed with life just yet, so he does not come out as troubled. I think the next book may settle the score in this aspect.

 

 

. And When he rescued the prostitute, he had a sbardblade and he was Adolin kholin, he didn't have to be brave to do it.

 

Bravery is not just found in fights... It was brave to rescue the prostitute because it goes against every accepted conventions. Adolin never really was in physical danger, but he did act outside what was expected of him. It'll make him stand out and brand him furthermore as an outcast.

 

 

I read them all and I have to go with Dustbringer.

 

Case for Edgedancer: they are warriors, they would probably accept him, Adolin is unusually caring about other people, and his sword. I also love the idea of him reviving his sword, and it appears to be an Edgedancer blade and spren. 

 

But, Dustbringer feels more like him. They are also warriors, and seem more so. Adolin is all about duty and obedience and doing the right thing, and that fits well with the signature Dustbringer qualities. It would be simple enough for Adolin to lose his Blade, perhaps upon banishment. Unless Adolin suddenly switches to struggling to figure out how to mend relationships and struggling to care about everyone, Edgedancer just doesn't quite fit. But it's close. He really could be either one.

 

I'm also going to toss out skybreaker again. Just and confident. He's cocky, alright. And he does the right thing.

 

Forget about the Skybreakers. We have a WoB that says they would not approve of him murdering Sadeas as he broke the law.

 

I agree about your views of the Dustbringers. It could be his Blade belongs to this order. I have not ruled this out just yet. I know there is evidence pointing towards his Blade belonging to an Edgedancer, but we know so little about Blade external aspect, I do not take these arguments as fail proof.

 

 

But still. Dustbringer. But it will all depend on how he goes through his breaking point; he could emerge anywhere. The one place I can't imagine is back to being a Highprince good at dueling. He's got a lot of potential there, but it's potential and conflict and development not used to its fullest. 

 

I think the main thing for me is that he's not just set to be good at combat. He's set to be the best. Absolutely epic. Able to exchange blows with a Herald, taking down the big beasts, making heroic charges. He's at the front lines, leading his men. While Edgedancers can fight, they aren't that. Adolin = epic = Dustbringer.

 

I think he'll go through his breaking point by being overly reckless to the point he'll put himself into danger... I also think he may try to rescue/save/protect his family against a superior foe he won't be able to beat, but he'll face it, bravely, despite all.

 

You are right in saying Adolin is a commander. He is the leader of the armies and he is a good one.

 

 

Doing the right thing doesn't equal being kind and good-hearted. 

 

 

I should have explained myself better... You are right in your assessment, however it is not exactly what I meant. You are a spren. You are about to give terrible powers to an individual who has is brave enough to act over his intuition, who wants to do right.... but really intuition brings you only this far. The last thing you want is this individual to use his powers in a selfish way, to misinterpret the clues around him and to lash at the wrong persons... How do you safeguard this? By choosing someone who is brave, but kind. Someone who cares. That's kind of how I see it.

 

 

It was never said that there will be one main Radiant per Order and Lift is not care-free. You can't be care-free when you live alone on the streets not knowing when you'll get your next meal or find shelter. She looks care-free, which is different and similar to Adolin. Don't forget Radiants are their own persons and it's unreasonable to expect all members of an Order to be the same. Similar yes, but outright copy-paste personality.

 

No but it is unlikely we will get two main characters out of the same order. If Adolin makes to the Edgedancer, then he is dead meat as our main Edgedancer is Lift. She is getting the flashback, not Adolin. I doubt Brandon would show us the progression of two knights from the same order through parallel POV. Wouldn't be kind of boring to know each and every oath Adolin's has to swear in advance because we have Lift who is more advanced then him?

 

Edgedancers as a whole seem frivolous which Adolin is not, despite his inner dialogue on fashion, he still cannot shy away from duty to be this person.

 

 

Correction, the WoB is Willshappers only. The clarification of Dustbringers got a small nod according to the person there, but that's sujective if you ask me. Nonetheless I think the DB would approve or at least accept it, just wanted to be clear on the WoB. However, keep in mind that it's perfectly fine for Adolin to not act accordingly to his future Order ideal since he's bondless. What he did might change him to become a Radiant, it's not a necessity to already be acting according to certain Ideals.

 

Alright. I should have been more clear. You know I know about the nod thing. I tend to interpret it as a "yes".

 

 

I know Eshonai is popular for Willshapper, but I don't believe she'll end up being the first non-human Radiant despite her arc being fit to tell us more on WS, we still need an actual WS. But I won't argue if you think she's our future WS. Who's the SW? Taln doesn't count as Radiant. Adolin could fit here in the future - he didn't back down on the 4vs1, in time he might develop the SW never-give-up attitude. I don't see any character fitting for SW

 

Do not forget Eshonai has a comet-like spren the ran away from her which Brandon identified as belonging to one of the orders... Now, I know Moogle has this theory this spren is her Blade and it has merit, but I personally tend to interpret this fact as a major clue towards Eshonai's future. Also, the fact she is getting a flashback is another pretty strong argument and one that bodes quite bad for Adolin.

 

We have clues Taln is not Taln so it could be he is a real Stoneward... If not, I do have this Tarah is a Stoneward theory................ I do not see Adolin as a Stoneward, not stoic or grave enough.

 

 

Exactly the same with Adolin - he isn't barave for the sake of being brave either. Otherwise he'd enjoy hunting as a way to show his courage.

 

Adolin hates hunting because he thinks it is unhonorable as all they do is butcher a poor creature who never had the chance to defend itself. He does not think hunting is courageous either as it usually consists of pelting a chasmfield with arrows up until it is nearly dead and then move on with their Blades and hack through it. Adolin enjoys the one on one fights between opponent of equal strength. He does not care over the fact he may lose, but he wants to be tested.

 

 

Actually, the Edgedancers are described as epic warriors But I agree, to become one Adolin would have to rearrange his priorities and abilities quite much (in regard of healing) to become one of them. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I don't see it just yet (though we don't know how the murder will affect him and how it will change him - because it will change him in one way or another - so everything is possible).

 

I have a really hard time picturing Adolin with healing powers... even if we extend the definition of healing to include his habit to fix wrongs.

 

 

Actually, I don't see DB as particuraly kind as well... But most definitely not cruel. In my mind they are usually stern and stubborn about their opinions (so they do what they consider right no matter what) and quite propably also kind of harsh on others and rude but in good intentions.

 

Stern and stubborn is how I see Stonewards..... Dustbringers, I see them as daredevils, foolhardy, impetuous, mouthy, but deep down they are good and kind-hearted persons who would never hurt an innocent.

 

 

Sorry for two posts, but my computer refused to cooperate so I had to finish in a second one

 

True, we didn't. I also don't really see Eshonai as a Radiant, but I won't be mad if she ends up being one. Once I thought Rysn to be the Willshaper (but there is no evidence to this whatsoever, it was just that I wanted her to be), but I don't really see any candidates. But since there is a solid candidate for a Dustbringer then I assume it's possible. I mean - Adolin is the most likely to be our Dustbringer out of all the characters we have seen, so he may become one. But I wouldn't mind him being a Stonewarden as well - Cohesion and Tension seem cool. And he can be associated with dependable(his men depend on him o the battlefield and his family did depend on him to win duels for shards and he tried his best not to fail their trust - he didn't fail them so we can say they could depend on him)/resourceful(if we assume that it means that he can find a way out of the dire situation then he is very resourceful as he proved numerous times on the battlefield). In fact, depending on the direction he's going to head from now on he may become a Stonewarden. That's the third solid possibility.

 

Rysn has been identified as a candidate for a Willshapers however I must my husband, whom has not read SA, had an interesting take on Willshapers... I was playing the "which order would we belong to game" with him. I described him every order with their attributes and I asked him which one he thought he would belong to. His answer was quite straighforward: Willshaper because they are resolute and builder. He claims he was a resolute person and he likes to built things... He is quite the engineer.... I had never pictured Willshaper as engineers or sorts, but now it does make sense. So I ended up being slightly puzzled by Willshapers following this little game....

 

Eshonai likes "building" maps, exploration and is a very determined person. I can see her trying to reconstruct her people. She kind of fits.

 

I guess we could argue Adolin is dependable and resourceful, but I think he is too impulsive and emotional to be a Stonewards. I also think he would never be chosen by a honor oriented spren as he committed murder. I do believe the only sprens who would want him as the ones related to Cultivation.

 

 

Actually he prefers duels to hunting because he believes that there is more bravery in standing against a worthy opponent in one on one combat than in a whole army ambushing one creature. But in fact - the concept of bravery for the sole sake of being brave is lame. I define the true bravery as the ability to act despite being afraid, to overcome own fear. He knows he's not immortal or unbeatable, he fears that something may go wrong, that he may die, but it doesn't stop him. He doesn't flinch or back down - he is brave. But not for the sake of bravery itself but to become a better person, a more reliable commander, a more efficient fighter.

 

Yep. Pretty much fit what I said earlier. That last bit about him trying to become a better person through his bravery is a pretty strong argument in favor of Dustbrigners.

[Daishi5]

I just read the entire thread, and the one thing that stands out to me is the whole "remembering the forgotten" does not just apply to Adolin's mother, but also to his blade.  If the theory of resurrecting his blade turns out to be true, it would be one of the biggest cases of remembering someone who had been forgotten.  

[Aleksiel]

I should have explained myself better... You are right in your assessment, however it is not exactly what I meant. You are a spren. You are about to give terrible powers to an individual who has is brave enough to act over his intuition, who wants to do right.... but really intuition brings you only this far. The last thing you want is this individual to use his powers in a selfish way, to misinterpret the clues around him and to lash at the wrong persons... How do you safeguard this? By choosing someone who is brave, but kind. Someone who cares. That's kind of how I see it.

 

So far passive powers seem to derive from surges - the Memory coming from manipulation of light, foresight from progression and illumination, Kal's ability to dodge without looking from adhesion. How does intuition go with division and abrahision? 

 

 

No but it is unlikely we will get two main characters out of the same order. If Adolin makes to the Edgedancer, then he is dead meat as our main Edgedancer is Lift. She is getting the flashback, not Adolin. I doubt Brandon would show us the progression of two knights from the same order through parallel POV. Wouldn't be kind of boring to know each and every oath Adolin's has to swear in advance because we have Lift who is more advanced then him?

 

Edgedancers as a whole seem frivolous which Adolin is not, despite his inner dialogue on fashion, he still cannot shy away from duty to be this person.

 

I think ED are frivolous only on the surface, which would fit Adolin as he is seen as a spoiled wominazer and daddy's boy, but let's agree to disagree on this, because neither of us can really tell what ED are like.

 

I agree having two main characters of the same Order makes little sense. However, Lift will be protagonist in the second five books. There's no reason not to have an ED until then, otherwise we won't be seeing any Radiants of Orders whose books are yet to come, which makes even less sense. Adolin won't be the focus character and simply knowing the Oaths won't spoil a future book, because the wording changes (only the meaning has to be the same) and the Oaths aren't the most interesting things a character could offer anyway.

 

 

Do not forget Eshonai has a comet-like spren the ran away from her which Brandon identified as belonging to one of the orders... Now, I know Moogle has this theory this spren is her Blade and it has merit, but I personally tend to interpret this fact as a major clue towards Eshonai's future. Also, the fact she is getting a flashback is another pretty strong argument and one that bodes quite bad for Adolin.

 

We have clues Taln is not Taln so it could be he is a real Stoneward... If not, I do have this Tarah is a Stoneward theory................ I do not see Adolin as a Stoneward, not stoic or grave enough.

 

No way for Tarah, Kal just has a thing for LW girls, that's why he fancies Shallan   SW sounds so serious... About the other, I agree with Moogle's theory on the comet-spren being the Blades (even though I also think SB didn't break their Oaths and their spren are comet-like, so this is quite the contradiction I have going on for me   ). Having flashbacks doesn't make one Radiant, just that his/her arc is suitable for telling more about the Order. Which kind of favors the said character becoming a surgebinder, but all surgebinders can't get books, so Adolin is most definitely reviving his Shardblade until the end of book 4, because it's just so awesome. If he doesn't, I'll be in denial.

 

 

....

 

Man, that's long. Two posts long 

 

Navani is an awesome candidate for a Willshapper as well, she fits maxal's husband's (that's also long, but stay with me, it's over   ) take on the Order. Though I do have Rysn in mind as a potential WS. I even expected her to get a book on her own, not Ash.

 

For the one main Radiant - see above. Lift is currently not even a minor character. I hope we'll see more surgebinders before the next book is over.

 

It was a bad example to give about bravery and hunting. Regardless, Adolin's source of courage to me is his love for his family, which is not something I associate primarily with DB.

 

 

I just read the entire thread, and the one thing that stands out to me is the whole "remembering the forgotten" does not just apply to Adolin's mother, but also to his blade.  If the theory of resurrecting his blade turns out to be true, it would be one of the biggest cases of remembering someone who had been forgotten.  

 

Well said, have an up-vote! Could he revive his Blade with this particular Oath? May be the first won't be enough. It could make for a very emotional scene.

 

edit: spelling, better late than never

Edited November 1, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Guest]

So far passive powers seem to derive from surges - the Memory coming from manipulation of light, foresight from progression and illumination, Kal's ability to dodge without looking from adhesion. How does intuition go with division and abrahision?

 

I don't know... How does it fit with abrasion and progression?

 

I think ED are frivolous only on the surface, which would fit Adolin as he is seen as a spoiled wominazer and daddy's boy, but let's agree to disagree on this, because neither of us can really tell what ED are like.

 

I agree having two main characters of the same Order makes little sense. However, Lift will be protagonist in the second five books. There's no reason not to have an ED until then, otherwise we won't be seeing any Radiants of Orders whose books are yet to come, which makes even less sense. Adolin won't be the focus character and simply knowing the Oaths won't spoil a future book, because the wording changes (only the meaning has to be the same) and the Oaths aren't the most interesting things a character could offer anyway.

 

I agree we do not have sufficient clues to properly identify the behavior of ED. You may be right, I never said you weren't. I am just not convinced and yeah, Adolin is a daddy's boy to the bone.

 

Lift is scheduled to have interludes chapters up until the second arc, that is unless Brandon does not change his mind. So we are going to see we her progression through those. It thus does not make sense to have Adolin evolving in parallel. Also, since Adolin already has a strong POV, it does make sense either for him not to be the focus character of his order. We have had four major POV characters in the first two books. Three of them are Radiants and are getting a book. We have a horde of, so far, very minor characters who are said to be getting a book. How come Adolin gets left on the side?

 

There is also the matter that if Adolin is not our Dustbringer, who will? There is nobody else that fits this order better then him.

 

 

No way for Tarah, Kal just has a thing for LW girls, that's why he fancies Shallan   SW sounds so serious... About the other, I agree with Moogle's theory on the comet-spren being the Blades (even though I also think SB didn't break their Oaths and their spren are comet-like, so this is quite the contradiction I have going on for me   ). Having flashbacks doesn't make one Radiant, just that his/her arc is suitable for telling more about the Order. Which kind of favors the said character becoming a surgebinder, but all surgebinders can't get books, so Adolin is most definitely reviving his Shardblade until the end of book 4, because it's just so awesome. If he doesn't, I'll be in denial.

 

But have you read my ramblings on fictional Tarah and her wedding with Kal? They have a son together who'll become best friend with Adolin and Shallan eldest set of twins It is a really cute theory issued from my wildest ramblings

 

You can't defend two theories that contradict themselves :o

 

I'll be in denial with you. I don't expect much development on the Blade issue in the next book. I expect Adolin to spiral down to rock bottom, to lose his shards and to get seriously injured (pun for Renarin to use Progression) in a battle he'll end up fighting the wrong way, for the right reasons. I expect him to be reunited with his Blade at the end of the book through some awesome plot development into which, he'll learn her name. Reawakening would be for the next book.

 

 

Navani is an awesome candidate for a Willshapper as well, she fits maxal's husband's (that's also long, buts stay with me, it's over   ) take on the Order. Though I do have Rysn in mind as a potential WS. I even expected her to get a book on her own, not Ash.

 

For the one main Radiant - see above. Lift is currently not even a minor character. I hope we'll see more surgebinders before the next book is over.

 

It was a bad example to give about bravery and hunting. Regardless, Adolin's source of courage to me is his love for his family, which is not something I associate primarily with DB.

 

Good one on Navani, but somehow, she does not scream Radiant to me..... I would not mid being wrong though.

 

But Lift is getting interludes.

 

I think every brave person must have an inner motivation... As someone pointed out earlier, you can't be brave for the shake of being brave. You need something to anchor you, to propel you through it and I think Adolin's anchor is his family. The keepsake from his mother is a telling example: he does not to battle without it. It gives him courage and strength to believe it brings him good luck. He was clearly distressed when it got lost. I did not see him carrying it as a mean to remember her, but more as a mean to remember to be brave. I have this pet theory Adolin's mother may have told something along those lines on her death bed. She may have told her elder son he needed to be brave for his father and his brother as they would need him. He had to be the strong one and this is reinforce by Adolin's own POV where he states a few times how he tries to behave in a certain way to reassure his family. Bottom line is he is trying to be the brave one, the strong one, for them.

 

 

Well said, have an up-vote! Could he revive his Blade with this particular Oath? May be the first won't be enough. It could make for a very emotional scene.

 

 

 

I don't know how many oaths he would need to swear to revive the Blade. I am thinking he needs to say at least the first one and perhaps the second. I also think the Blade revival event would occur in the mist of a battle.

[Aleksiel]

I don't know... How does it fit with abrasion and progression?

 

It fits quite nicely  If Progression is part of what gives Ren foresight, then its variation without the support of the Illumination surge (that adds picture and sound) could very well be intuition. 

 

 

 

Lift is scheduled to have interludes chapters up until the second arc, that is unless Brandon does not change his mind. So we are going to see we her progression through those. It thus does not make sense to have Adolin evolving in parallel. Also, since Adolin already has a strong POV, it does make sense either for him not to be the focus character of his order. We have had four major POV characters in the first two books. Three of them are Radiants and are getting a book. We have a horde of, so far, very minor characters who are said to be getting a book. How come Adolin gets left on the side?

 

There is also the matter that if Adolin is not our Dustbringer, who will? There is nobody else that fits this order better then him.

 

I'm not a fan of this Ash book, why not Chana? I'd prefer not to miss any Order as far as flashback characters are concerned, but that's Brandon's decision and I'm sure he has his reasons. 

 

Adolin and Lift are two different people. If they both become ED, that won't bother me. Oaths aren't the most important aspect. You can progress to an Oath in different ways, you can say it differently. It gives variety to the Order. Are we not to have any minor surgebinders just because the book on their Order is yet to come? Brandon decided not to give Navani a book since Dalinar's will cover much of her story and Adolin probably doesn't get a book, because 3 other Kholins will have and this isn't the Kholin's Archive after all 

 

 

 

 

You can't defend two theories that contradict themselves     

 

This is how I roll 

[Guest]

It fits quite nicely  If Progression is part of what gives Ren foresight, then its variation without the support of the Illumination surge (that adds picture and sound) could very well be intuition.

 

But what is the link between a surge that makes things grow or regrow and intuition? I don't see it....

 

 

I'm not a fan of this Ash book, why not Chana? I'd prefer not to miss any Order as far as flashback characters are concerned, but that's Brandon's decision and I'm sure he has his reasons.

 

Chana would be better as we already had a Lightweaver for flashbacks. I hate missing a character for flashback, especially since Adolin is a strong candidate for the order that is missing the said flashback.

 

 

Adolin and Lift are two different people. If they both become ED, that won't bother me. Oaths aren't the most important aspect. You can progress to an Oath in different ways, you can say it differently. It gives variety to the Order. Are we not to have any minor surgebinders just because the book on their Order is yet to come? Brandon decided not to give Navani a book since Dalinar's will cover much of her story and Adolin probably doesn't get a book, because 3 other Kholins will have and this isn't the Kholin's Archive after all 

 

I am just worried becoming ED would make Adolin redundant... And I do not want him to be the "minor surgebinder"... He is kind of a more important character then Lift, so far. I would have taken an Adolin book over a Renarin one anytime. Their childhood story arc must be quite tied anyway, but I suspect the flashbacks from the second half will deal with the events in between the two series.

 

What's wrong with the Kohlins' archive? :ph34r:

[Aleksiel]

But what is the link between a surge that makes things grow or regrow and intuition? I don't see it....

 

Growth and regrowth are only subsurges. If we look at progression in another way, it's how everything and everyone progress, which passively gives bases for intuition and foresight.

 

I am just worried becoming ED would make Adolin redundant... And I do not want him to be the "minor surgebinder"... He is kind of a more important character then Lift, so far. I would have taken an Adolin book over a Renarin one anytime. Their childhood story arc must be quite tied anyway, but I suspect the flashbacks from the second half will deal with the events in between the two series.

 

He'll stay main for the first five with Lift as minor. Then she becomes main in the next five and her flashbacks I suspect will cover what happened in the ten-years in-world break between books 5 and 6, not so much Oaths as I think we'll witness most Oaths in the first five books anyway. Seeing several Radiants from an Order is the only way to fully understand it. 

 

What's wrong with the Kohlins' archive?     

 

That's the future spin-off series 

Edited November 1, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Guest]

Growth and regrowth are only subsurges. If we look at progression in another way, it's how everything and everyone progress, which passively gives bases for intuition and foresight.

 

That's an interesting idea, but Progression is not the Edgedancer's main surge... Abrasion is.

 

However, I am glad to see we agree intuition  is Adolin's specific talent, not fighting skill. Fighting, he developed by working harder then everyone else and what makes him such a good duelist is his intuition, his capacity to read his opponents and to use the best strategy. Intuition also makes him the military strategist we have just begun to see.

 

 

He'll stay main for the first five with Lift as minor. Then she becomes main in the next five and her flashbacks I suspect will cover what happened in the ten-years in-world break between books 5 and 6, not so much Oaths as I think we'll witness most Oaths in the first five books anyway. Seeing several Radiants from an Order is the only way to fully understand it.

 

If you are right, then how come Adolin is the only redundant Radiant? No matter what he ends up being, he is the special weird case... Either he is a Dustbringer without a flashback and without a book dedicated to his order or either he is the second Edgedancer, placed second after Lift. That's kind of a strange place to put one of your main character.

 

 

That's the future spin-off series 

 

Featuring the next generation of Kohlins.... 

[Aleksiel]

That's an interesting idea, but Progression is not the Edgedancer's main surge... Abrasion is.

 

I wouldn't say Radiants have major and minor surge. Just because Kal can't do much with adhesion doesn't mean it's minor. And his passive seems to be related to precisely adhesion, so there's no reason for ED passive not to come from Progression - Adolin gets hunches on how things will progress - occasional intuition - because his bond with the Blade is not Nahel bond.

 

Take away sound and picture (Illumination) from a vision of the future (Truthwatchers) and you are left with the gist of what's to happened - intuition.

 

 

 

 

If you are right, then how come Adolin is the only redundant Radiant? No matter what he ends up being, he is the special weird case... Either he is a Dustbringer without a flashback and without a book dedicated to his order or either he is the second Edgedancer, placed second after Lift. That's kind of a strange place to put one of your main character.

 

He's not redundant! Though he's an excellent candidate for a major character death... Anyway, I expect other surgebinders to appear, there the WoB about the second Lightweaver, so it's quite possible to see in future several members of an Order. In fact, it's a necessity if the KR are to be truly refound.

 

 

 

Featuring the next generation of Kohlins.... 

 

To be fair the story of Adolin and Shallan's child friendship with Kal and Tarah's child was your idea, so don't complain 

[Guest]

I wouldn't say Radiants have major and minor surge. Just because Kal can't do much with adhesion doesn't mean it's minor. And his passive seems to be related to precisely adhesion, so there's no reason for ED passive not to come from Progression - Adolin gets hunches on how things will progress - occasional intuition - because his bond with the Blade is not Nahel bond.

 

The number one surge for Windrunners is Adhesion.... Gravitation is the number one surge for the Skybreakers... It therefore works with the few examples we have (Kaladin and Shallan, quite a small sample, I do agree).

 

I am not disapproving your theory though. It does make sense, even if I am not convinced Adolin is a potential Edgedancer. However, let's suppose for the sake of the conversation you are right. Do you think he gets intuition because that is just how he is or is it linked to a deepening bond with his Blade? He does seem to get them more often in WoR... or perhaps it was he was too centered around Sadeas in WoK.

 

 

He's not redundant! Though he's an excellent candidate for a major character death... Anyway, I expect other surgebinders to appear, there the WoB about the second Lightweaver, so it's quite possible to see in future several members of an Order. In fact, it's a necessity if the KR are to be truly refound.

 

That is EXACTLY what I am worried about.... If he ends up being the second Edgedancer, then he is redundant, then he'll most likely bite the dust as he would not be needed to further the Radiant plot. It also means he is not one of the 10 foreshadowed. That's not quite what I hoped for the character.

 

 

To be fair the story of Adolin and Shallan's child friendship with Kal and Tarah's child was your idea, so don't complain 

 

Was I complaining? I love the idea of giving a happy ending to Kaladin as opposed to a grim death. I wanted him to find love with someone and well, due to a lack of female characters, I have decided my fictional Tarah would be the one    I also love the idea Kaladin and Adolin's friendship continuing as they aged and it gets transposed on their older kids. In my fictional world , Kal would have two sons while Adolin would have a horde of kids   Shallan would spend the gap between the series being mostly pregnant with their 6 kids (to Navani and Renarin most utter dismay over their reproduction rate), although to be fair, there's two set of twins in the lot. All girls except for one of the oldest twin and the youngest child.

 

It such a cute future for our main characters :ph34r: :ph34r:

 

It would make the oldest kids between 10-12 years of age during the second half of SA. Old enough to start sword training and be interesting as characters And Adolin's oldest daughter is more interested in swords then in the feminine arts.....

[Aleksiel]

The number one surge for Windrunners is Adhesion.... Gravitation is the number one surge for the Skybreakers... It therefore works with the few examples we have (Kaladin and Shallan, quite a small sample, I do agree).

 

I am not disapproving your theory though. It does make sense, even if I am not convinced Adolin is a potential Edgedancer. However, let's suppose for the sake of the conversation you are right. Do you think he gets intuition because that is just how he is or is it linked to a deepening bond with his Blade? He does seem to get them more often in WoR... or perhaps it was he was too centered around Sadeas in WoK.

 

I'm not into this major-minor surge thing you have in mind.

 

I'll go with because he's starting to establish a bond with his Blade that slowly begins to give him ED perks. I don't think he's originally an ED, but his blade is ED spren and by waking it, he gets some ED spirit fix into his soul, which changes his mentality towards ED. Of course, for this to be possible Adolin needs the potential to grow in ED personality direction, which he has. But he won't end up ED if he's to attract spren instead of reviving his Blade.

 

 

 

That is EXACTLY what I am worried about.... If he ends up being the second Edgedancer, then he is redundant, then he'll most likely bite the dust as he would not be needed to further the Radiant plot. It also means he is not one of the 10 foreshadowed. That's not quite what I hoped for the character.

 

My idea of his future is reviving his Blade in book 4 and dying in book 5 (probably with Dalinar). Their deaths will effect all major characters and the reader... Yeah, it's sad. I really like him, yet I'm afraid he won't make it in the second five books.

 

 

 

Kal would have two sons while Adolin would have a horde of kids    Shallan would spend the gap between the series being mostly pregnant with their 6 kids (to Navani and Renarin most utter dismay over their reproduction rate), although to be fair, there's two set of twins in the lot. All girls except for one of the oldest twin and the youngest child.

 

It such a cute future for our main characters       

 

It would make the oldest kids between 10-12 years of age during the second half of SA. Old enough to start sword training and be interesting as characters   And Adolin's oldest daughter is more interested in swords then in the feminine arts..... 

 

 I pity Shallan... Adolin will spoil his daughter all the way    That's if he's alive to see her grow up 

[Guest]

I'm not into this major-minor surge thing you have in mind.

 

I'll go with because he's starting to establish a bond with his Blade that slowly begins to give him ED perks. I don't think he's originally an ED, but his blade is ED spren and by waking it, he gets some ED spirit fix into his soul, which changes his mentality towards ED. Of course, for this to be possible Adolin needs the potential to grow in ED personality direction, which he has. But he won't end up ED if he's to attract spren instead of reviving his Blade.

 

I think there may be a distinction between the first and the second surge... it could be linked to knights specific talents. Kaladin, Shallan and Jasnah have been shown to have a stronger affinity with their first surge, so I wouldn't dismiss it as a possibility.

 

I think Adolin has the potential to attract a spren on his own, but as long as he entertains such a strong relationship with a dead one, the live ones will stay away. If the Blade plot does not work out, then I think he may very well get his own spren, in due time. Let's not forget many orders have not sent representatives yet. I am thinking Dustbringers are probably one of those as the destructive nature of their power made their order more weary.

 

On my side, I am thinking Adolin's progression through WoR is akin to a journey. The more he progresses through his dueling spree, the more he lets go of the Thrill.... In his first duel, he abandons himself to it and it drains him, somehow. In the next duels, he fights it down and keeps a cool head. In the last battle, he can't summoned the Thrill when he needs it the most. As a result he gets sick and rammed into by Eshonai in a moment of weakness. I am very keen to see how this will evolve over the next book. Are we going to see Adolin the prodigy fighter starting to lose it on the battle ground?

 

 

My idea of his future is reviving his Blade in book 4 and dying in book 5 (probably with Dalinar). Their deaths will effect all major characters and the reader... Yeah, it's sad. I really like him, yet I'm afraid he won't make it in the second five books.

 

If Adolin revives his Blade, then it does not make sense to kill him of shortly after. It is such a nice plot to have a poor spren finally freed from her prison after years of torture: I cannot fathom Brandon would put her to the pain of losing her knight shortly after. It would destroy the spren.

 

I think Dalinar is likely to die telling his son to continue his line of work, telling him he is proud of him, despite all and to never forget he is a good person. As for a major character's death, Dalinar is prime candidate, in my views, much more then Adolin as Dalinar is near the end of his growth, I think. Besides, leaving the future of the Kohlin household into Renarin's sole hands would be disastrous. The poor kid.

 

 

 I pity Shallan... Adolin will spoil his daughter all the way    That's if he's alive to see her grow up 

 

Shallan would have 4 daughters: at least one of those would take after her at being a skillful artist And one would take very strongly after aunt Jasnah, which would leave Navani laughing as she watches from afar, Shallan trying to argue the stubborn clever kid to go to bed each night.

 

Adolin would spoil all of his kids. Navani would scold him down for letting his daughter run around with swords and would tell him she needs to be put into a proper dress with a safehand. Adolin would argue she likes to play swords with her brother and that they are twins, they are supposed to stick together, so swords it is    It will also help she'll turn out very good at it.

 

I want Adolin to live to see his kids grow up    In another alternate universe I have, he dies, but not before making Shallan pregnant. She has a son, which will be raised by Renarin. He'll turn out being so much like Adolin it will steer Renarin around. He'll promise he'll never leave that one from his sight and make sure he grows into a fine young man, but this is such a sad plot I hope it won't happen.

[Aleksiel]

....

 

So long as Adolin keep his Blade, no living spren will get close to him. That didn't stop the Stormfather, but he probably didn't have a

choice or at the very least he's different from the average spren.

 

I also see Dalinar dying, likely at the end of book 5. But you're right on Adolin - if he revives his Blade, he's probably live.If not... well, there will be major character deaths in Desolation, no way around it.

[Guest]

So long as Adolin keep his Blade, no living spren will get close to him. That didn't stop the Stormfather, but he probably didn't have a

choice or at the very least he's different from the average spren.

 

I also see Dalinar dying, likely at the end of book 5. But you're right on Adolin - if he revives his Blade, he's probably live.If not... well, there will be major character deaths in Desolation, no way around it.

 

Except Dalinar did not share any special nor deep bond with his Blade. He was it as a tool and did not shy away from naming it. Adolin's relationship with the Blade is somewhat much more pronounced. This is reinforce by the fact Adolin, as an individual, seems to attach a strong significance into inanimate objects. With these circumstances, I do think most sprens would steer away from him. There's also the fact he was not ready for a Nahel bond, not until he starts losing the Thrill at the end of WoR anyway.

 

Major characters do not have to die, unless their character arc is done. I personally am not a fan of the "heroic major character's death" story arc as I generally feel it is s short-cut to avoid having to deal with the said character development. However, I do not mind a secondary character dying to redeem itself, such as Elhokar. We are not overly attached to him and his death would have a similar effect on the remaining crew as Adolin's.

 

Adolin's death (or Kaladin's as some have foreseen) would be painful for many readers and it would rub of of their growth as individuals, which is much more interesting, to me, then their deaths.

[KevinTheHerdazian he/him]

So long as Adolin keep his Blade, no living spren will get close to him. That didn't stop the Stormfather, but he probably didn't have a

choice or at the very least he's different from the average spren.

 

I also see Dalinar dying, likely at the end of book 5. But you're right on Adolin - if he revives his Blade, he's probably live.If not... well, there will be major character deaths in Desolation, no way around it.

I don't think that if you have a shard blade other spren won't get close to you. Renarin is a perfect example of this. He bonds a blade then gets his spren (glys?) he couldn't have done it the other way around due to the spren thinking that they're abominations

[Guest]

I don't think that if you have a shard blade other spren won't get close to you. Renarin is a perfect example of this. He bonds a blade then gets his spren (glys?) he couldn't have done it the other way around due to the spren thinking that they're abominations

 

But Renarin hated his bonded Blade. Dalinar saw it as a tool. Adolin sees his as a living individual granting him the favor of appearing for him. He confides in it and we look closely, the talk he has with his Blade is the most intimate we have ever seen him be with anyone. Adolin, despite entertaining an outgoing and friendly personality, does not open up to people, not like he does with his Blade.

 

In these circumstances, yes I do think Adolin's Blade would keep potential sprens away.

Edited November 1, 2014 by maxal