[OB] Is Felt a Kandra?

[sprocket]

I was reading through WoBs and this one stood out to me: 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

You know Felt?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Felt, I know Felt.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Is Felt originally Scadrian?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yep.

Yes. You guys know about that, right? I don't think that's a big secret. But, he is, and that should be raising other questions.

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

About his name? Or how he's showing up on Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

About that and the fact that... He should stand out more.

source

Generally, our biggest clue for spotting worldhoppers on Roshar is when characters have trouble identifying their ethnicity. It's notable that this never happened with Felt. Scadrians would likely look Shin to Alethi, but it's never brought up that Felt is a foreigner in an Alethi army. Like Brandon said, he should stand out more. If Felt is a Kandra, it wouldn't be hard to change their body to look more Alethi. Why not pick a more Vorin name? I'm not sure, maybe that was Brandon just making sure we'd notice him. If Felt was just a normal person it'd be in his interest to pick a Vorin sounding name anyway. 

Similarly, there's this interesting WoB:

Quote

Questioner

Is the Felt question the one that you got away with?

Brandon Sanderson

No, that really is-- Felt really is Felt. He's been around, let's just say.

Questioner

Are there more places I should look for him?

Brandon Sanderson

Eeehhhh, there are more places you could look for him, whether you find him or not is a matter of…

Questioner

I'm going to guess that he's going by a different name in other places.

Brandon Sanderson

Things that he s-- There are things that he said in Mistborn which are relevant in minor ways... These are not huge big things, when you read them you'll be like "Oh, interesting".

Footnote: The questioner is referring to these exchanges from the RAFOlypmics event the previous day.
source

 This seems to imply that we'd have above average difficulty spotting Felt. This would make sense if he was a Kandra, since he could look entirely different from appearance to appearance. Regardless, there is definitely something going on with Felt that Brandon hasn't disclosed yet. The bit about Felt's dialogue is interesting, I just reread Mistborn 1 and 2 and don't remember anything weird there, but I also wasn't looking for it. I wish I had a digital copy so finding that stuff was easier. I suspect there might be a clue implying that Felt had been replaced. Since Brandon has explicitly said that the Felt we see in Stormlight Archive is the same Felt as in Mistborn, meaning that a Kandra took his place some time during the events of the original trilogy. 

I'm also half convinced that Felt is that pesky Kandra worldhopper that we haven't been able to pin down. Consider this WoB:

Quote

Newan (paraphrased)

I asked what planet we have seen the kandra worldhopper on.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He said "You have seen her before".

Newan (paraphrased)

I asked if she was an agent of Sazed

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He said yes.

source

    So we've seen the Kandra worldhopper, well, we've seen Felt. He also didn't reveal the planet, which is interesting. There's also: 

Quote

Newan (paraphrased)

When the kandra worldhopper is off-world, er off-Scadrial, does she take the form of a human female?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Not all of the time.

Newan (paraphrased)

Has she spoken a word of dialogue in a non-Mistborn book?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

I can't remember.

source

It doesn't sound like much, but it basically confirms that the Kandra worldhopper has at least taken the form of a male. Whether she has appeared on screen in that form is another matter, but it hasn't been strictly disproved. Note that the above quote comes from 2014, so this was before Felt got a bunch of lines in the Dalinar flashbacks in OB. Honestly even I can't remember if Felt said anything in Words of Radiance.

As a final tidbit there's also this WoB: 

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Does the kandra worldhopper appear in Way of Kings, on screen?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

I don't know.

source

  This response would make sense considering Felt doesn't really show up in Way of Kings but is presumably still kicking around in Dalinar's army. 

Edited May 6, 2018 by sprocket

[Weltall]

It's an interesting thought but I feel like I should point out that Oathbringer does establish that Felt has some of the distinguishing 'worldhopper cues'. When going to see the Nightwatcher, Dalinar notes that not only is Felt particularly short (ie, 'normal' height compared to Rosharans) but that he must have some Shin ancestry because of his eyes. So Felt does have the physical features we'd expect of a worldhopper, while a kandra could adjust their height and eyes so as to not stand out at all if they wanted to.

But Brandon's comment that he should stand out more is intriguing.

[+Extesian he/him]

The main issue with this has always been the annotations.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Felt

Oh, and Felt gets a mention here. I don't know if you remember him from book one, but he was the spy who Elend sent to tail Vin one night and figure out who she truly was. He was loyal to house Venture, and Elend inherited Felt from his father when Straff fled Luthadel and left behind most of his servants and men.

A third son of a very minor nobleman, Felt is used to working for a living—something that does happen to a lot of nobility in this world, even if the ones you see most of the time are either too busy ruling, stealing, or going to war to bother with things like that.

Source

 

[RShara she/her]

As Extesian said, Felt is the third son of a minor nobleman. I can't think why a kandra would want to imitate him, specifically, on Roshar, instead of taking the place of a Rosharan. I mean, the kandra could take on any form they want, why would they go, "I think I'll take on the appearance of this non-native that happens to be from the same planet as me, and make references as if I weren't from around here, who gets sent out to the middle of no where to scout all the time!" instead of "I'll take on the appearance of a native and blend in perfectly, and be in an unimportant position that lets me be near the center of events but not part of them."

[Steeldancer he/him]

I've had a pet theory that he might be a hemalurgist. He is from scadrial after all, but I'm not 100% sure about that, given that he would have to do more traveling about to do the whole hemalurgy collection thing that my theory accuses him of. 

[sprocket]

17 minutes ago, Weltall said:

It's an interesting thought but I feel like I should point out that Oathbringer does establish that Felt has some of the distinguishing 'worldhopper cues'. When going to see the Nightwatcher, Dalinar notes that not only is Felt particularly short (ie, 'normal' height compared to Rosharans) but that he must have some Shin ancestry because of his eyes. So Felt does have the physical features we'd expect of a worldhopper, while a kandra could adjust their height and eyes so as to not stand out at all if they wanted to.

But Brandon's comment that he should stand out more is intriguing.

There it is, I figured there'd be something I missed somewhere. It's been a while since I've read Oathbringer and I also read it really quickly, so I've forgotten a lot of details. Good catch! 

There does seem to be something weird with Felt tho. 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

This is totally down the rabbit hole kind of stuff, but it could be that Felt is really Paalm, the Lord ruler's pet kandra.

House venture was responsible for the Atium mining operation, would make sense for the Lord Ruler to have an inside man making sure no one else in house Venture is skimming off the Atium.

During the siege of Luthadel, it was spy master Felt that found the secret way into Luthadel through the canals. We know that the Atium was shipped into Luthadel after joining the Obligator Acolytes during their canal trip to Luthadel. Might have been one of his secret tasks to use those same canals to get the Atium into Luthadel using those same canals.

Paalm was described in SoS I think as the consumate actor, and it wasn't until Harmony sent her on her Wax mission that she started developing an independent identity.

As to why felt is the 3rd son of a minor noble, this could simply be to make Felt the exact right social standing where he could be placed in house venture, but still not stand out.

Edited May 7, 2018 by hoiditthroughthegrapevine

[RShara she/her]

15 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

This is totally down the rabbit hole kind of stuff, but it could be that Felt is really Paalm, the Lord ruler's pet mistborn.

House venture was responsible for the Atium mining operation, would make sense for the Lord Ruler to have an inside man making sure no one else in house Venture is skimming off the Atium.

During the siege of Luthadel, it was spy master Felt that found the secret way into Luthadel through the canals. We know that the Atium was shipped into Luthadel after joining the Obligator Acolytes during their canal trip to Luthadel. Might have been one of his secret tasks to use those same canals to get the Atium into Luthadel using those same canals.

Paalm was described in SoS I think as the consumate actor, and it wasn't until Harmony sent her on her Wax mission that she started developing an independent identity.

As to why felt is the 3rd son of a minor noble, this could simply be to make Felt the exact right social standing where he could be placed in house venture, but still not stand out.

Wasn't Paalm Lessie at the time? And why would she keep that identity on Roshar, when becoming a Rosharan would be much more effective as a spy?

 

Plus, I think you meant pet kandra

 

My personal theory is that Mrall is the kandra.

Edited May 7, 2018 by RShara

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

10 minutes ago, RShara said:

Wasn't Paalm Lessie at the time? And why would she keep that identity on Roshar, when becoming a Rosharan would be much more effective as a spy?

Mistborn Era 2 takes place around stormlight 5 or 6, so it could be Paalm. The reason to keep the Felt persona could be that Felt oversaw the Scadrian part of the interplanetary trade from the Pits of Hathsin, and possibly had contacts on Roshar that would recognize him from this role.

[RShara she/her]

1 minute ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Mistborn Era 2 takes place around stormlight 5 or 6, so it could be Paalm. The reason to keep the Felt persona could be that Felt oversaw the Scadrian part of the interplanetary trade from the Pits of Hathsin, and possibly had contacts on Roshar that would recognize him from this role.

Era 2 takes place after SA5, yeah. Weren't Wax and Lessie together for years? It would depend on exactly when Era 2 ends up taking place, but that timeline is pretty sticky.

And since SA takes place 300 years after Era 1, who would still be alive to recognize him? And if they were still alive, wouldn't they be suspicious that *he* was alive? Sorry, there's just too many stretches here for it to be credible to me. There's really no reason to think Felt is the kandra, other than that he's also from Scadrial. Which, to me, is a good reason for the kandra to NOT be him.

And again, it makes no sense for the kandra to stand out in any way. Being noticeable in even that minor way would be silly. The kandra can literally be anybody, and decides to take on the persona of an off-worlder? Again, it makes more sense for the kandra to look Rosharan, and be someone who is always near important events, but isn't part of them.

[Devout Pathian]

6 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Mistborn Era 2 takes place around stormlight 5 or 6, so it could be Paalm. The reason to keep the Felt persona could be that Felt oversaw the Scadrian part of the interplanetary trade from the Pits of Hathsin, and possibly had contacts on Roshar that would recognize him from this role.

How do we know the timelime of the cosmere?  I’ve been wondering this for awhile.

Also Felt in Oathbringer did mention that he was a forienger and that was why the Nightwatcher wouldn’t take to him.

[RShara she/her]

From lots of WoBs. He's said that the current plan is for Era 2 to take place during or after the gap between SA 5 and 6.

Quote

Questioner [PENDING REVIEW]

Time-wise, where do the events of Bands of Mourning happen with respect to Words of Radiance?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

...So, Bands of Mourning, all the Wax & Wayne books take place after Stormlight 5, but I'm not sure if it happens after or before Stormlight 6, It'll have to wait, because there's a time jump between Stormlight 5 and 6 that I haven't exactly defined in the timeline yet.

source

 

Yes, Felt is definitely from Scardrial. We know that, it's been established. Which is evidence, to me, that he would NOT be the kandra. Because he stands out, and the kandra wouldn't. The best spy is the one that is unnoticeable, unobtrusive, unimportant, unremarkable, but always on hand when important events happen.

 

Look at the Terriswoman. Other than us being completely crazy, would anyone ever have spotted her?

Edited May 7, 2018 by RShara

[The One Who Connects he/him]

Just now, Aurora the Rioter said:

How do we know the timelime of the cosmere?  I’ve been wondering this for awhile.

We ask Brandon at every possible opportunity. Peruse the "Chronology" tag in Arcanum.

[Xtafa]

I like to think that Malli is the female Kandra [Felt's Wife] and that Felt tagged along for the ride. :/ Unless they're both Kandra. 

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

1 hour ago, RShara said:

My personal theory is that Mrall is the kandra.

Sounds interesting, what makes you think Mrall is the kandra?

1 hour ago, RShara said:

And since SA takes place 300 years after Era 1, who would still be alive to recognize him? And if they were still alive, wouldn't they be suspicious that *he* was alive? Sorry, there's just too many stretches here for it to be credible to me. There's really no reason to think Felt is the kandra, other than that he's also from Scadrial. Which, to me, is a good reason for the kandra to NOT be him.

This would also make Felt 300+ years old, and from the events of Era 1 mistborn he seems to just be a regular Scadrian, with no Allomantic or feruchemical powers. How would he last through the 300+ years post catacendra? 

Demoux was an Atium misting, one hemalurgical spike with feruchemical Atium and a cache of Atium would get him through the 300 years. Gallodon can Drink AonDor-ade like the Ire, and Baon can use whatever magical Taldain hack that Khriss uses to defy the adverse effects of time, but Felt? How can we explain his longevity?

It might be too much of a stretch to say Felt might be Paalm (that would be tight on the timeline) but he still seems like he could be the worldhopping kandra to me.

[Xtafa]

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine

Its been mentioned that worldhopping sometimes throws you forward in time as well as location. Maybe it tossed him far ahead. 

[RShara she/her]

20 minutes ago, Xtafa said:

@hoiditthroughthegrapevine

Its been mentioned that worldhopping sometimes throws you forward in time as well as location. Maybe it tossed him far ahead. 

I don't think so. There're some time dialation shenanigans that worldhoppers utilize to move forward quickly, but I don't recall anyone being thrown forward inadvertently. Time dialation isn't an inherent feature of the Cognitive Realm.

48 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

Sounds interesting, what makes you think Mrall is the kandra?

He is in the right place to be a spy, and he has some unusual abilities (turning off his emotions). He isn't a pivotal figure, but is near ones who are, and is in the perfect place to watch the Diagram play out.

 

48 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

It might be too much of a stretch to say Felt might be Paalm (that would be tight on the timeline) but he still seems like he could be the worldhopping kandra to me.

He could be yes, but it doesn't make sense for him to be. I've said this a number of times: The fact that he stands out at all is a detriment in being a spy. There's no reason for the kandra to not look Rosharan-native. Why would the kandra want to take on the persona of someone from Scadrial, on Roshar? It doesn't make any sense. Why would the kandra take on a specific person, that we know is from Scadrial, that had a history that would be useless on Roshar? There's just no point to it, when being a Rosharan native would be much more effective and less noticeable.

I mean, it's like... "I can look like anyone or anything! I'm on this planet doing important stuff. The people on this planet look this way! I'm going to....not look like them. For reasons!" It doesn't make any sense.

Also, Felt is a scout, which means he's out...scouting all the time, instead of being where he can observe the important players.

It makes more sense for Felt to be Felt, and for the kandra to be someone nearly undetectable. Like I said, remember the Terriswoman. If we weren't as obsessive as we are, would we ever have twigged to her? She had no distinguishing characteristics, was barely on screen, and blended in perfectly.

Edited May 7, 2018 by RShara

[Weltall]

55 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

This would also make Felt 300+ years old, and from the events of Era 1 mistborn he seems to just be a regular Scadrian, with no Allomantic or feruchemical powers. How would he last through the 300+ years post catacendra? 

Demoux was an Atium misting, one hemalurgical spike with feruchemical Atium and a cache of Atium would get him through the 300 years. Gallodon can Drink AonDor-ade like the Ire, and Baon can use whatever magical Taldain hack that Khriss uses to defy the adverse effects of time, but Felt? How can we explain his longevity?

Demoux does not use atium compounding to extend his lifespan.

Quote

Dirigible (paraphrased)

Did Demoux achieve immortality by manipulating his Connection age?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Demoux uses the same method as most of the Seventeenth Shard. That method slows aging by a lot, but doesn't stop it completely.

source

Now consider that Demoux' travelling companion Baon doesn't have any 'natural' way of extending his life via magic (ie, there's nothing from Taldain where he's from that can extend life, or at least nothing he's known to have access to) but he's comfortably older than Demoux. Brandon has even said that Baon is not Invested, by way of establishing that this isn't a criteria for membership in the group. Clearly, one does not need a way of inherently prolonging their lives and whatever method the Seventeenth Shard uses will work for anyone able to learn it, Felt included.

27 minutes ago, Xtafa said:

Its been mentioned that worldhopping sometimes throws you forward in time as well as location. Maybe it tossed him far ahead. 

Worldhopping doesn't inherently do this. Case in point, Hoid was on Scadrial during the events of The Final Empire, then had to have left the world at some point in order to then return during the events of Well of Ascension (as seen in Secret History) which means he returned within a year of leaving, going somewhere else and coming back.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Weltall

[Xtafa]

51 minutes ago, Weltall said:

 

Worldhopping doesn't inherently do this. Case in point, Hoid was on Scadrial during the events of The Final Empire, then had to have left the world at some point in order to then return during the events of Well of Ascension (as seen in Secret History) which means he returned within a year of leaving, going somewhere else and coming back.

This is true, although he has had far more experience with it than most, perhaps more control; however that is just conjecture from myself I guess.

 

Good point about the return to scadrial, I forgot he left and came back, in my head it was the same visit.  

[Doomdrinker she/her]

7 hours ago, RShara said:

 

He could be yes, but it doesn't make sense for him to be. I've said this a number of times: The fact that he stands out at all is a detriment in being a spy. There's no reason for the kandra to not look Rosharan-native. Why would the kandra want to take on the persona of someone from Scadrial, on Roshar? It doesn't make any sense. Why would the kandra take on a specific person, that we know is from Scadrial, that had a history that would be useless on Roshar? There's just no point to it, when being a Rosharan native would be much more effective and less noticeable.

I mean, it's like... "I can look like anyone or anything! I'm on this planet doing important stuff. The people on this planet look this way! I'm going to....not look like them. For reasons!" It doesn't make any sense.

Your assuming the kandra can impersonate someone from roshar well enough to not be noticed. If the kandra has no or very little knolege of roshar in general it would make sense to choose a persona of someone who can get away with not knowing basic info that everyone would know. I feel like I've explained my point badly but I'm just trying to show there would be good reasons to be a foreigner instead of a rosharan. 

[The One Who Connects he/him]

2 hours ago, Doomdrinker said:

Your assuming the Kandra can impersonate someone from Roshar well enough to not be noticed. If the Kandra has little to no knowledge of Roshar in general it would make sense to choose a persona of someone who can get away with not knowing basic info that everyone would know.

That really depends on how long they've been there. At first, a Kandra might have some trouble making a few things look right(like them epicanthic folds), but they are trained from "birth" to mimic. After a while, they should have most/all of the details down.

Quote

Oudeis16
TenSoon comments that when the unbirthed are given Blessings, they lose the mimickry instinct that mistwraiths have and have to be taught anew. If their only native senses are touch and taste, how exactly do you teach a blob of muscles how to form things like eyes and ears?

Brandon Sanderson
Basically, you feed it some partially digested eyes, then some more eyes, then eventually it starts making eyes on its own. It takes a while; Kandra 'children' grow more slowly than human ones.

Consider how difficult getting the fur right was for TenSoon and he was still back in action the next day. Nothing in a switch from a Scadrian Human to a Rosharan Human is gonna be that difficult.

The only thing really preventing them from portraying a Rosharan would be the bones, since Rosharans are naturally taller due to the lower grav environment. Assuming they still have a problem with killing, they would have to wait until someone died naturally. They could be a gravedigger(may/mayn't be allowed) or use a body they stumbled upon(murdered slave, fallen soldier, bandit-raided caravan, etc..) All they need is one set of intact bones.

[Fatikis he/him]

Just throwing a few ideas out.

We have no idea what the properties of a Kandra-Human hybrid which are theoretically possible.

If Felt were one of these it is possible that he is able to adjust minor features while not able changing things like height. As a nonKandra he is stuck with his current bones. This could explain how he sticks out but not too much. It would have also been very useful as a spy.

Another possibility is he is manipulating connection in someway.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Fatikis

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

@The One Who Connects I think he meant cultural stuff, not physical appearance. The kandra doesn't know much of alethi culture, and is thus imitating someone who comes from somewhere else. I am personally not throwing this idea out of the window completely. Something is special about Felt. If it isn't being the kandra, then what is it?

13 hours ago, RShara said:

Look at the Terriswoman. Other than us being completely crazy, would anyone ever have spotted her?

Wait, we found her? When?

[The One Who Connects he/him]

7 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Wait, we found her? When?

Not found so much as guessed correctly. Warbreaker Spoilers

Spoiler

It's Lemex's Nurse, Brandon doesn't think we should have been able to guess it yet, and I agree with him.

Edit: Also, the cultural argument makes more sense for the Kandra, but they adapted pretty well on Scadrial, despite being in the Homeland most of their lives.

Edited May 7, 2018 by The One Who Connects

[RShara she/her]

30 minutes ago, Fatikis said:

Just throwing a few ideas out.

We have no idea what the properties of a Kandra-Human hybrid which are theoretically possible.

If Felt were one of these it is possible that he is able to adjust minor features while not able changing things like height. As a nonKandra he is stuck with his current bones. This could explain how he sticks out but not too much. It would have also been very useful as a spy.

Another possibility is he is manipulating connection in someway.

...No....Just..... no.

Anyway, Felt was around during TFE, and there's no way there was interbreeding during that time

24 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I think he meant cultural stuff, not physical appearance. The kandra doesn't know much of alethi culture, and is thus imitating someone who comes from somewhere else. I am personally not throwing this idea out of the window completely. Something is special about Felt. If it isn't being the kandra, then what is it?

It wouldn't take the kandra long to learn it. Reading up on TenSoon and OreSeur, they interrogate and study their would-be disguise very thoroughly.

I think that Felt probably is special in that he is either Hemalurgically spiked or has a medallion that he is using to tap/store Connection. That would make others feel like he fits in with them, even when he doesn't quite. It would keep him from "standing out," exactly as Brandon says.