[OB] The Lopen was never a squire

[MountainKing]

Quote

Chilinko ducked away. Lopen opened his palm and stared at the sphere. He didn’t want to miss a day practicing with his sphere, just in case. After all, sooner or later, he was going to look at one of these and— The Lopen sucked in Light. It happened in an eyeblink, and then there he sat, Stormlight streaming from his skin. “Ha!” he shouted, leaping to his feet. “Ha! Hey, Chilinko, come back here. I need to stick you to the wall!” The Light winked out. The Lopen stopped, frowning, and held his hand up in front of him. Gone so fast? What had happened? He hesitated. That tingling . . . He felt at his shoulder, the one where he’d lost his arm so long ago. There, his fingers prodded a new nub of flesh that had begun sprouting from his scar.

Sanderson, Brandon. Words of Radiance (The Stormlight Archive, Book 2) (p. 1052). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

This scene happened at the end of Words of Radiance, while the rest of Bridge Four were across the continent, in Urithiru.The only way The Lopen could absorb stormlight was if he began to bond a spren or have a honorblade. We know he had a spren at the end of Oathbringer, and he was saving swearing his oaths until a dramatic moment. I not saving he kept his bond a secret for a whole book, he might not of knew he was bonding a spren, but he was never a squire just a potential Knight Radiant. It could also just be a continuity mistake.

[RShara]

16 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

This scene happened at the end of Words of Radiance, while the rest of Bridge Four were across the continent, in Urithiru.The only way The Lopen could absorb stormlight was if he began to bond a spren or have a honorblade. We know he had a spren at the end of Oathbringer, and he was saving swearing his oaths until a dramatic moment. I not saving he kept his bond a secret for a whole book, he might not of knew he was bonding a spren, but he was never a squire just a potential Knight Radiant. It could also just be a continuity mistake.

Hmmm interesting.  Maybe Kaladin had returned to the Shattered Plains right when he started glowing, to help move people to Urithiru?  Or the scene took place before he went to Urithiru?  Sometimes the scenes will jump back in time a bit to show "in the meantime" type things.

[Wandering Investor]

The fact that he absorbed stormlight while Kal wasn't around was something I noticed, but wasn't sure why. Him having his spren since then makes alot of sense. 

[RShara]

Yeah it could also have been a proto-bond like Kaladin before Syl even really started to talk to him.

[(^_^)]

If I recall correctly, there is something like an hour between Radiant leaving squire behind and said squire losing his powers. And Kaladin left Elhokar with Lopen, then rushed to fight Szeth. There is no clear indication of how much exactly time passed between main army arriving to Uthiru and sending for others in warcamps, but it's entirely possible that it was done before Lopen lost his squire powers.

[Alderant]

1 minute ago, (^_^) said:

If I recall correctly, there is something like an hour between Radiant leaving squire behind and said squire losing his powers. And Kaladin left Elhokar with Lopen, then rushed to fight Szeth. There is no clear indication of how much exactly time passed between main army arriving to Uthiru and sending for others in warcamps, but it's entirely possible that it was done before Lopen lost his squire powers.

I'm along these lines of thoughts as well. Do we have a timeline confirmation that Lopen and Kaladin were far enough away for squireship to be ineffectual? We don't know exactly how far away a squire has to be from his radiant in order for the powers to fade, and it is not implausible for the scene with Lopen to occur either A) while Kaladin is returning to fight Szeth (placing him relatively close to Lopen) or B ) while Kaladin is returning to the Shattered Plains to warn the warcamps and/or move the rest of his men, especially since the order in which scenes are written does not always match up chronologically with the scenes around them, as @RShara noted.

[Fifth of Daybreak]

In the context of this scene, the Lopen is helping to guard Elhokar, who is both injured and very hung over, and has been for the duration of Kaladin's absence. This was his protecting someone who couldn't protect themselves, and, in my opinion, lends weight to the idea that he was exploring an early spren bond instead of just being a squire.

[(^_^)]

11 minutes ago, Fifth of Daybreak said:

In the context of this scene, the Lopen is helping to guard Elhokar, who is both injured and very hung over, and has been for the duration of Kaladin's absence. This was his protecting someone who couldn't protect themselves, and, in my opinion, lends weight to the idea that he was exploring an early spren bond instead of just being a squire.

One cannot become squire without right mindset, so 'protecting' king might have been relevant for his squireship, but I doubt it counted for his Radiant'ship, as he wasn't ready to swear that Ideal until end of third book. 

But there are two better arguments against him not being squire. First of all, Lopen being Lopen, would certainly try to keep practicing using Stormlight in Urithiru while Kaladin was away, and if he was capable, he would tell everyone about it. Secondly, his spren appears to be barely sentient at the end of Oathbringer, indicating that Nahel Bond was formed very recently (or at least some time after Teft did his bond). Altough, Lopen being Lopen, it is possible that his spren, even after regaining his mind, would be 'Lopeny', other Honorspren wouldn't even think about forming bond before that one time when they came to observe Brige Four windrunning training, so Lopen having earlier spren bond would have to mean just another runaway Honorspren, which is very unlikely.

[RShara]

It's mentioned in the books that it takes an hour or two for the squire-ness to fade, and that they'd measured it to have a limit of around 50 miles, although they start fading after around 30.

[StormingTexan]

Not really proof one way or the other but Lopen does say this early on in OB while Kaladin is away. 

Quote

“It’ll come back, gancho!” Lopen said from behind her. “When Kaladin returns, we’ll glow again good.”

He uses “we’ll” instead of “you’ll” indicating him as well. Now I guess it could be argued that he’s covering it up or just doesn’t know he’s attracted a spren. 

Then we have Lopen in the Bridge 4 POV searching under rocks which was presumable him looking for his spren. I’d think this would be pretty early on in his bonding but who knows. 

Quote

 

They all seemed to find this comforting. Well, except Lopen, who had snuck away from the group and for some reason was lifting up rocks on the other side of the plateau and looking underneath them. Even among humans, he was a strange one.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by StormingTexan
Stupid autocorrect

[Fifth of Daybreak]

51 minutes ago, (^_^) said:

One cannot become squire without right mindset, so 'protecting' king might have been relevant for his squireship, but I doubt it counted for his Radiant'ship, as he wasn't ready to swear that Ideal until end of third book. 

But there are two better arguments against him not being squire. First of all, Lopen being Lopen, would certainly try to keep practicing using Stormlight in Urithiru while Kaladin was away, and if he was capable, he would tell everyone about it. Secondly, his spren appears to be barely sentient at the end of Oathbringer, indicating that Nahel Bond was formed very recently (or at least some time after Teft did his bond). Altough, Lopen being Lopen, it is possible that his spren, even after regaining his mind, would be 'Lopeny', other Honorspren wouldn't even think about forming bond before that one time when they came to observe Brige Four windrunning training, so Lopen having earlier spren bond would have to mean just another runaway Honorspren, which is very unlikely.

I find this very convincing.

[Subvisual Haze]

I agree that Lopen has had his spren following him for quite a while.  It also helps to explain how Lopen seemed to master the Windrunner surges so much quicker than everyone else.  He's had extra practice time on the side

It may not necessarily be the case that this precluded him from being a squire also!  He only swore the 2nd oath at the end of Oathbringer, so if he is following Kaladin's progression, this would only give him access to Stormlight and Adhesion powers before that point.  Being a squire to Kaladin may have been what allowed him to use the gravity surges and fly around.

[Govir]

6 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

It also helps to explain how Lopen seemed to master the Windrunner surges so much quicker than everyone else.

But I don't think he mastered Windrunner surges before anyone else. I'm pretty sure he was having difficulties with them actually (e.g. sticking himself to the ground instead of flying).

[Finallity]

I like to think that Kaladin is never far from Lopen...   

...'s heart.

*sheds a single tear*

Ok but honestly I'd say that this is just a slight continuity error, I don't think they would have hinted at Lopen being his own Radiant in book two and then glossed over it so much in book 3.

[RShara]

Maybe instead of sticking himself to the ground, his spren stuck him to the ground?  Did I just talk myself into this theory?

[MountainKing]

Sly followed Kaladin around since before he was a bridgeman and only became sapient maybe a month or two after Kaladin started to notice her. Oathbringer, I believe, takes place in the space of a month to three months. This gives his spren time not to be fully sapient by the end of Oathbringer. He might not of noticed his spren because honorspren are similar to windspren, and the windspren would surround him while he was flying. I think that Windrunners have access to all their surges from the beginning. Shallan/Lift both had access to their two surges before oath two. The Skybreakers squires don't use the Division surge because they aren't taught how to use it not because they don't have access to it.

[RShara]

20 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

Sly followed Kaladin around since before he was a bridgeman and only became sapient maybe a month or two after Kaladin started to notice her. Oathbringer, I believe, takes place in the space of a month to three months. This gives his spren time not to be fully sapient by the end of Oathbringer. He might not of noticed his spren because honorspren are similar to windspren, and the windspren would surround him while he was flying. I think that Windrunners have access to all their surges from the beginning. Shallan/Lift both had access to their two surges before oath two. The Skybreakers squires don't use the Division surge because they aren't taught how to use it not because they don't have access to it.

I'm pretty sure all Radiants have access to all their surges from the beginning, and that it's just custom or understanding/knowledge of them that causes them to not use them right away.  (Plus the thematic reason).

[MountainKing]

Someone said that Lopen shouldn't have access to the surge gravitation because he did not say his second surge tell the end of Oathbringer.

[Subvisual Haze]

1 hour ago, Govir said:

But I don't think he mastered Windrunner surges before anyone else. I'm pretty sure he was having difficulties with them actually (e.g. sticking himself to the ground instead of flying).

Dude was hanging upside down from the ceiling at a time when Siz/Peet/Teft were the only other members of Bridge 4 who could even draw in Stormlight.