[OB spoilers] Is Maya alive?

[Mage of Lirigon he/him]

2 hours ago, SLNC said:

The whole argument going on is that a bond is already forming. I don't think, that any cultivationspren - Maya or another one - would choose him, because of his general attitude to both fighting - dishonesty and honesty in the fight is irrelevant. Fighting is always connected with harming/killing your opponent and Adolin likes this in duels or on the battlefield. - and his priorities.

Then there are arguments that constantly get flipped and flopped around, like first Adolin and Lift are alike enough to be a sign of Adolin's Edgedancer compatibility and when that point gets challenged, suddenly Lift and Wyndle are atypical from "normal Edgedancers" and "normal cultivationspren".

I'm beginning to think, that this discussion is futile. Both sides of the argument are too entrenched.

Why would Cultivationspren be so opposed to fighting again? Maya certainly wasn't opposed to killing that thunderclast. I think Calderis mentioned this before, but Cultivation is not a kind concept. Eliminating undesirables is baked in.

 

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Yes, he saves the kid - because he had to opportunity to do so -, but also doesn't care what happens to him afterwards. He just shoves it into the arms of a random soldier and is eager to get back to the fighting again.This doesn't show care for me.

He was rather busy at the time.

 

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Besides, why hasn't some other spren chosen him then?

It's not like there's a huge amount of spren looking for bonds.

 

2 hours ago, insert_anagram_here said:

So to summarize, Adolin is becoming a Radiant without showing any Radiant or proto-Radiant signs, he is becoming an Edgedancer but has nothing in common with the other Edgedancer we know (because the other Edgedancer we know is a 'special case') and Maya is coming back to life even if she isn't showing any different signs than any other dead Shartblades we know. 

This whole argument stands on the 3 heartbeats of difference, which could be explained by Dalinar's Perpendicularity.

I'm sorry but it's not convincing enough for me.

If it was only the three heartbeats, I'd be skeptical too. It's that, plus the fact that Maya saved him and communicated with him that makes me feel that Brandon is going this way. I can't see why he would put that in for no reason at all.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Mage of Lirigon said:

Maya certainly wasn't opposed to killing that thunderclast.

Maya sighed. Adolin interpreted. He could be completely wrong in that interpretation. Maya has no choice, but to let herself be used as a weapon.

9 minutes ago, Mage of Lirigon said:

Why would Cultivationspren be so opposed to fighting again?

I can only go from Wyndle, who doesn't seem to like it.

9 minutes ago, Mage of Lirigon said:

I think Calderis mentioned this before, but Cultivation is not a kind concept. Eliminating undesirables is baked in.

I get it. And yet, I don't think, that Edgedancers are agents of cultivating stuff. Their surges would be more suited for combat medics.

Also, Cultivation's intent is still quite nebulous for all of us. Arguments based on assumptions aren't good arguments.

10 minutes ago, Mage of Lirigon said:

He was rather busy at the time.

And still, it shows where his priorities lie.

11 minutes ago, Mage of Lirigon said:

It's not like there's a huge amount of spren looking for bonds.

Well, if he's such a good candidate as everyone tries to make him be on here and a Kholin to boot, I'm still asking why he hasn't attracted a spren yet. Apparently almost every other Kholin was able to.

[insert_anagram_here]

15 minutes ago, Mage of Lirigon said:

If it was only the three heartbeats, I'd be skeptical too. It's that, plus the fact that Maya saved him and communicated with him that makes me feel that Brandon is going this way. I can't see why he would put that in for no reason at all.

I'm sorry but you are rehashing arguments already done on the thread, feel free to go back and read some of those pages. The Maya interactions all happen in Shadesmar and we do not have any other deadeye spren in the Cognitive Realm to compare what the 'normal consciousness and behaviour for deadeyes' is. For all we know it could be typical behavior for her condition and even if it isn't, it does not necessarily mean that Adolin is becoming Radiant because there are other prerequisites to that process. 

You cannot see why Brandon would put that in for no reason at all? It's called bait and switch. The facts do not add up that Adolin is becoming an ED and whatever arguments are presented they are only adjusted to fit that narrative and not vice versa.

If you still want to believe this theory it's your choice of course but it doesn't mean that other people need to be convinced about it.

Edited March 16, 2018 by insert_anagram_here

[Calderis he/him]

Yes, I think that Adolin and Lift are similar. That doesn't mean I expect them to be exactly the same. He's also not a thirteen year old girl. 

I think assuming that all Edgedancer would be pacifists is no different than assuming that all Lightweavers would share Shallan's mental issues or all Dustbringers would serve the Diagram like Malata. 

I also don't think that Adolin is the bloodthirsty monster people are trying to paint him as. Sadeas was an anomaly. Adolin has become a soldier, but he still doesn't look forward to killing. He prefers an actual fair fight to wanton slaughter. He started out preferring the dueling ring because of the dance and artistry of the blade to the din and bloodshed of the battlefield. He doesn't want to kill, but he realizes that sometimes it is necessary. 

Above all else Radiants are individuals. Kaladin, Lopen and Teft are all drastically different characters, and yet they've drawn the same type of Spren. 

As far as "only the three heartbeats" go, I still fail to see how the perpendicularity has anything to do with that. If it were the perpendicularity, all three of the times he summoned her should have been shortened in Thaylen City. Not just the last. That appears to have been a conscious effort I'm Maya's part I'm that one instance, which still requires her to have begun healing. I've still yet to see an explanation of how the perpendicularity could selectively heal the hole in a spren, and not enact other forms of healing. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Calderis

[Mage of Lirigon he/him]

Just now, SLNC said:

Maya sighed. Adolin interpreted. He could be completely wrong in that interpretation. Maya has no choice, but to let herself be used as a weapon.

They were communicating, I think Maya would have let him know if he was off-base there. She certainly made her displeasure clear to him at other times there.

 

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I can only go from Wyndle, who doesn't seem to like it.

Wyndle is one person.

 

 

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I get it. And yet, I don't think, that Edgedancers are agents of cultivating stuff. Their surges would be more suited for combat medics.

 

 

Surges for cutting out what is unnecessary and healing what is. Sounds good for cultivating to me.

 

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Also, Cultivation's intent is still quite nebulous for all of us. Arguments based on assumptions aren't good arguments.

This is not based on an assumption. It's based on the meaning of the word cultivation.  The other Shards' Intents have matched the meaning of the words, haven't they? Why would Cultivation be different?

 

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And still, it shows where his priorities lie.

What did you want him to do then? Drop what he was doing and focus entirely on the child?

 

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Well, if he's such a good candidate as everyone tries to make him be on here and a Kholin to boot, I'm still asking why he hasn't attracted a spren yet. Apparently almost every other Kholin was able to.

He simply wasn't compatible to any other spren who were looking for bonds. That's all.

 

13 minutes ago, insert_anagram_here said:

I'm sorry but you are rehashing arguments already done on the thread, feel free to go back and read some of those pages. The Maya interactions all happen in Shadesmar and we do not have any other deadeye spren in the Cognitive Realm to compare what the 'normal consciousness and behaviour for deadeyes' is.

You cannot see why Brandon would put that in for no reason at all? It's called bait and switch. The facts do not add up that Adolin is becoming an ED and whatever arguments are presented they are only adjusted to fit that narrative and not vice versa.

If you still want to believe this theory it's your choice of course but it doesn't mean that other people need to be convinced about it.

Maya communicated with Adolin in Theylen City. You can say the perpendicularity caused it, but I doubt highly that Brandon would go so far as to give Maya a name simply to bait and switch the readership, especially after he pulled something similar with Eshonai and Elhokar.

Frankly it seems to me that people are pulling opposing arguments out of nowhere.

[GarrethGrey]

Sigh* Look, this thread is obviously going nowhere. Neither side is ever going to agree with the other side, my big issue is that everyone jumping on the "Adolin will revive Maya and become an Edgedancer" bandwagon, refuse to see any alternatives, any other possible reasons for what occurred. Thats fine, you dont want to look deeper, you want this potential plotline to happen, and have Adolin be a Radiant, whether that be because of realmatics (Maya revival) or love for Adolin (he becomes a Radiant). Many people have posited potential faults and issues with any potential revival and Adolin being an ED, they either get explained away (very poorly in my opinon) or not addressed at all. Thats fine too, but lets not pretend this is an actual discussion, where both sides are taking into account the others views.

I don't see a reason why Brandon can't tease readers with Maya stuff in OB and then not follow through with what many readers feel like (they?) Or Adolin are "owed". Brandon doesnt owe us or Adolin or any of our characters anything, so if this Maya thing comes to nothing, its because there wasn't a whole lot there to begin with. Maya attacking a fused, and being summoned in 7 hearbeats is certainly something, but lets stop pretending that those miniscule actions (one happened in Shadesmar, the other during the Perpendicularity) are more than enough to come to the conclusions that many are drawing here.

As I've stated before, something is or was happening with Maya, what that leads to is complete speculation at this point. There is absolutely zero evidence supporting Adolin reviving Maya and becoming an ED is the only possible conclusion. There are other alternatives and the idea the Brandon must do this because he teased some Maya stuff is a little entitled. Again, Adolin can most certainly revive and bond Maya, it can and might happen, but its also not the only thing that can potentially happen.

[Guest]

@Mage of Lirigon Look, we have already danced this little dance in the past. You won't convince me, I won't convince you. Let us just keep it at that.

Let me just say one last statement to this:

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Frankly it seems to me that people are pulling opposing arguments out of nowhere.

Frankly it seems to me that people are pulling arguments in favor out of nowhere/assumptions.

Edited March 16, 2018 by SLNC

[DeployParachute]

I believe some words from our friendly, neighborhood Site Admin would be applicable here:

"Generally discourse has been very poor in this thread, with all involved thinking they are excellent at arguing, and of course, you are definitely accepting the other side, but everyone else isn't listening to your amazing arguments. Is this you? Then you should think about that. People are making others feel unwelcome, and this is a major issue." - @Rubix

[Mage of Lirigon he/him]

Just now, GarrethGrey said:

Sigh* Look, this thread is obviously going nowhere. Neither side is ever going to agree with the other side, my big issue is that everyone jumping on the "Adolin will revive Maya and become an Edgedancer" bandwagon, refuse to see any alternatives, any other possible reasons for what occurred. Thats fine, you dont want to look deeper, you want this potential plotline to happen, and have Adolin be a Radiant, whether that be because of realmatics (Maya revival) or love for Adolin (he becomes a Radiant). Many people have posited potential faults and issues with any potential revival and Adolin being an ED, they either get explained away (very poorly in my opinon) or not addressed at all. Thats fine too, but lets not pretend this is an actual discussion, where both sides are taking into account the others views.

 

Just now, SLNC said:

@Mage of Lirigon Look, we have already danced this little dance in the past. You won't convince me, I won't convince you. Let us just keep it at that.

I can only speak for myself here, but it's not like I'm married to this theory. I believe in it because it makes the most sense. If someone can give me a reason why it can't happen, then I'll reconsider. I've done so in the past and I'll do it now.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

I'd like to remind some people that at least some Edgedancers were apparently considered deadly on the battlefield, according to one of the epigraphs in WoR. So I don't think Lfit and Wyndle can be assumed to represent all Edgedancers with the pacifism thing.

Cultivation controls all things that grow, including the thorns. I think it makes sense that some of her spren would be "thorns" and more comfortable with violence than Wyndle is.

[Carla Bridge Four]

2 hours ago, IronBars said:

kind of like hes a pyramid shape fitting in the hole for a cone shape, horrible analogy sorry,

not horrible, but hurtful  

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

1 hour ago, GarrethGrey said:

As I've stated before, something is or was happening with Maya, what that leads to is complete speculation at this point. There is absolutely zero evidence supporting Adolin reviving Maya and becoming an ED is the only possible conclusion. There are other alternatives and the idea the Brandon must do this because he teased some Maya stuff is a little entitled. Again, Adolin can most certainly revive and bond Maya, it can and might happen, but its also not the only thing that can potentially happen.

Ok. My thoughts on the subject are that the events listed lead to Adolin's Radiance and Maya's Revival, or at least the attempt at these things. Obviously you feel differently. Since we can agree that something is going on in regards to Adolin/Maya, do you have a competing theory? Realize that none of us can be proven right until the words are written. But Brandon studied under a master of foreshadow in Robert Jordan so I think the context clues, as slight as you may find them, actually lead somewhere instead of just throwing away pages in the interest of writing something cool. I'm not trying to insult, I really am trying to seek other viewpoints, other possibilities to what I believe is going on.

[Calderis he/him]

We're all convinced that our ideas are reasonable and the others aren't. That's what bias is. 

I don't care which side of the argument is saying it, don't start calling out the other sides bias without acknowledging your own. 

I like Adolin. I think he fits the order. I think the evidence fits both realmatically, and character wise. I'm probably the loudest proponent of the idea in this thread. 

That said, the story Brandon is writing trumps all for me. Adolin could die. He could do something that kills the process and it goes no where. In those circumstances, unless there is evidence to show another means, I will still believe that what has happened up to this point is a Nahel bond forming with a dead blade. 

She's not done healing, and as I've said before, I think something else needs to occur for that healing to be completed. Until that point he will not be a Radiant. He will not gain any healing or surges or anything beyond perhaps the ability to summon Maya a hair more quickly. 

If another idea arises that is plausible realmatically and makes more sense,  I will consider it. I have changed my mind on multiple theories on this forum in the past (most notably one about hemalurgy due to the arguments of Yata). But so far, "the perpendicularity did it" is not an argument I can accept. I would like to see a reason for it. Adolin went through the perpendicularity from the Cognitive to the Physical, and he still needed his gut wound healed. Countless people were wounded and died in the battle. Perpendicularities do not heal. 

I am heavily biased by what I see as the realmatic evidence. Frankly, knowing that Maya is an Edgedancer blade, I'd be more likely to change my view on what it means to be an Edgedancer if I thought Adolin didn't fit the order than I would be to accept that this isn't a Nahel bond forming. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Calderis

[RShara she/her]

2 hours ago, CrazyRioter said:

I'd like to remind some people that at least some Edgedancers were apparently considered deadly on the battlefield, according to one of the epigraphs in WoR. So I don't think Lfit and Wyndle can be assumed to represent all Edgedancers with the pacifism thing.

Cultivation controls all things that grow, including the thorns. I think it makes sense that some of her spren would be "thorns" and more comfortable with violence than Wyndle is.

Not to mention:

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although they were not the most demanding of orders, their graceful, limber movements hid a deadliness that was, by this time, quite renowned; also, they were the most articulate and refined of the Radiants.

*looks at Lift*

*laughs head off*

Edited March 16, 2018 by RShara

[Vissy]

As many people have mentioned, while Adolin and Lift may not seem very similar on the outset, they actually do share a lot of traits and attitudes. I think the problem is just that we have no confirmation; it could go either way, Adolin could become a KR or not, but since there is no confirmation people just want to keep arguing for the sake of arguing itself. Maybe at this point all of the arguments have been made, since now everyone seems to just be on repeat-mode towards each other.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Vissy

[Chaos he/him]

3 hours ago, DeployParachute said:

I believe some words from our friendly, neighborhood Site Admin would be applicable here:

"Generally discourse has been very poor in this thread, with all involved thinking they are excellent at arguing, and of course, you are definitely accepting the other side, but everyone else isn't listening to your amazing arguments. Is this you? Then you should think about that. People are making others feel unwelcome, and this is a major issue." - @Rubix

We will be PMing and talking to multiple people in this thread today, as we have already been doing in this thread already. Please use the Report feature in the future rather than making a public call-out. Thanks!

Just as a point of order: A completely acceptable resolution to a thread is people saying their piece and people disagree. You can actually agree to disagree and not be snippy and disrespectful about it. Then you can go to another thread and make your voice heard there.

I'd say chill out, but that hasn't worked historically (so... expect some PMs soon). But holy crap guys. Chill out. Oh no, someone disagreed on the internet? What's new? That doesn't mean we need to make this waging war. This isn't about who's "right". People are going to have opinions and you will encounter many which aren't yours. That's okay! You will not conclude any thread where you have "won" and persuaded people and that is okay! So say your piece, disagree respectfully, then go get some tea. 

We are being reserved with removing posts, due to intense criticism where people think we are censoring opinions on all sides. We aren't, we won't, but we will talk to people who are being problems, we will warn them, and if necessary, remove them from character discussions so cooler heads can say their pieces too.

[CrazyRioter she/her]

Seems like a lot of people (me included) have strong emotional opinions on this issue.

I want to say I hope I haven't made anyone feel uncomfortable, that wasn't my intent at all.

[DeployParachute]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Please use the Report feature in the future rather than making a public call-out. Thanks!

Just trying to adequately attribute a quote that I took from another thread, and using Moderator Team approved statements to encourage members within this thread to police themselves accordingly, without getting moderators involved.

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Just as a point of order: A completely acceptable resolution to a thread is people saying their piece and people disagree. You can actually agree to disagree and not be snippy and disrespectful about it. Then you can go to another thread and make your voice heard there.

Interesting.  I wholly agree with this...and yet, it feels like this sentiment is not always consistent across the Moderator Team.  If people say their piece and leave, and the only people remaining in the thread are an echo chamber for a particular viewpoint, at what point would the following sentiment apply to this particular thread?

"It really worries us that this might be the thread people see and it's one of the first they participate in, and they get into something that's very heated and they immediately nope out of the thread. You can very clearly see that members who briefly join the thread don't continue pages later." - @Rubix

Clearly you and I agree that people who don't like the ongoing discussion in a thread should probably chill out and go elsewhere for a while.  But at what point does a thread cross the threshold where the Mods no longer consider the threads discussions to be worth having?  Appearing at the top of the boards for too many days?  Too high of a page count? The ideas being presented in the thread are disagreeable to just the right amount of members?  I personally don't find I have anything to contribute to this thread that I feel could sway the opposing viewpoints.  Does that mean there is no merit to people continuing the discussion, and I should lobby the Mods to get the thread shut down?  I don't think so, but then again, I can't help but wonder under what circumstances the Moderator Team decides we have reached this point:

"I think opinions have been said at this stage, in extensive detail, and don't need to be continued. When the cost to the community is the impression that the site is overall toxic, we need to act, so we have decided to close the thread, and hopefully things should cool down." - @Rubix

 

[Guest]

This was quite a mayhem today on the thread... I'll admit it has, at the very least, accomplished the purpose of distracting me from the crushing failure my life seems to be these days  This being said, I think we all got very defensive of our opinions (I include myself in this even if I did not partake into the latest discussion) and, for reasons still unknown to me, Adolin's character seems very polarizing. 

I thus decided to try to unite instead of divide and offer an alternative to the endless pit fighting. There is one aspect of story telling I believe all of us are going to whole-heartily agree upon and it is we all enjoy character related discussions. We all have an interest into this particular discussion and Adolin's fate with Maya is not leaving many voiceless nor opinion-less. It certainly is a passionate debate and, from my personal's perspective, each side is not finding the other side's arguments compelling nor convincing enough to change their mind of their speculative outcome.

Hence, I have started an initiative with is the Grand List of Character related Questions. My purpose with it is to increase awareness over character-related questions and theory making. I am hoping to get more people to ask character related questions at signings in order to get more WoB tackling the subjects we all are interested in. I has gotten to my attention, a long time ago, how few questions regarding character development were being asked. I thus wish to encourage readers to voice their interest into characters and to ask such questions.

I put in a few with are relevant to this discussion. Please, feel free to add your own, to comment on the existing ones, as long as it is all related to character arcs. I see a lot of disagreeing in how to interpret Adolin's character. This isn't new: perhaps it is worth to find a way to ask Brandon so he could clarify a few important elements about his character. Based on what I read today, I will add questions to the list.

 

[Kaymyth she/her]

13 minutes ago, DeployParachute said:

Just trying to adequately attribute a quote that I took from another thread, and using Moderator Team approved statements to encourage members within this thread to police themselves accordingly, without getting moderators involved.

@ callouts are used specifically to get people's attention; we get notifications for them. They aren't necessary for attribution. Please only use them if you're replying to someone without quoting or need someone specific to respond to a post.

13 minutes ago, DeployParachute said:

Clearly you and I agree that people who don't like the ongoing discussion in a thread should probably chill out and go elsewhere for a while.  But at what point does a thread cross the threshold where the Mods no longer consider the threads discussions to be worth having?  Appearing at the top of the boards for too many days?  Too high of a page count? The ideas being presented in the thread are disagreeable to just the right amount of members?  I personally don't find I have anything to contribute to this thread that I feel could sway the opposing viewpoints.  Does that mean there is no merit to people continuing the discussion, and I should lobby the Mods to get the thread shut down?  I don't think so, but then again, I can't help but wonder under what circumstances the Moderator Team decides we have reached this point:

Specifically, when mods start getting PMs and Discord comments in regards to a particular thread along the lines of, "I am actually really interested in this topic, but after reading through it (or posting once or twice) I felt that the tone of many posters in the thread was very aggressive, and I didn't feel safe/comfortable posting there."

This happened with the ASK thread, over and over, from multiple people over the course of many weeks. It's very difficult to ignore a message when a multitude of people send it to you over an extended period of time. And yes, while we got pushback for closing the thread, it was not nearly as strong as the very negative feelings that were expressed to us about the tone of the thread during the course of its life.

 

But the point that Chaos and Rubix have been making about walking away/taking a breath/having a cup of tea is this: you can disagree with each other without being rude to each other. Our job as moderators isn't to make sure every side is "even" or to try to set debate parameters or issue grade points on each argument like a college composition professor - our job is to make sure that people here are polite to each other. Nice would be preferable, but polite will do.

If you* cannot express your opinion without being snarky, insulting, or otherwise rude, you need to take a break. Step away for a bit, have a cup of tea, eat a chocolate bar, go for a walk, beat on a video game boss. Settle yourself until you are calm enough to be polite, and then respond. It's what I try to do when someone gets my dander up.

 

*General "you" not directed at any specific person. Just in case that needs to be stated.

[Chaos he/him]

35 minutes ago, DeployParachute said:

Just trying to adequately attribute a quote that I took from another thread, and using Moderator Team approved statements to encourage members within this thread to police themselves accordingly, without getting moderators involved.

Interesting.  I wholly agree with this...and yet, it feels like this sentiment is not always consistent across the Moderator Team.  If people say their piece and leave, and the only people remaining in the thread are an echo chamber for a particular viewpoint, at what point would the following sentiment apply to this particular thread?

"It really worries us that this might be the thread people see and it's one of the first they participate in, and they get into something that's very heated and they immediately nope out of the thread. You can very clearly see that members who briefly join the thread don't continue pages later." - @Rubix

Clearly you and I agree that people who don't like the ongoing discussion in a thread should probably chill out and go elsewhere for a while.  But at what point does a thread cross the threshold where the Mods no longer consider the threads discussions to be worth having?  Appearing at the top of the boards for too many days?  Too high of a page count? The ideas being presented in the thread are disagreeable to just the right amount of members?  I personally don't find I have anything to contribute to this thread that I feel could sway the opposing viewpoints.  Does that mean there is no merit to people continuing the discussion, and I should lobby the Mods to get the thread shut down?  I don't think so, but then again, I can't help but wonder under what circumstances the Moderator Team decides we have reached this point:

"I think opinions have been said at this stage, in extensive detail, and don't need to be continued. When the cost to the community is the impression that the site is overall toxic, we need to act, so we have decided to close the thread, and hopefully things should cool down." - @Rubix

 

You're welcome to continue this in another thread or PM me, but this is very off topic here. I do not intend to close this topic. Individuals will be talked to, and that will be the end of it. We are adjusting actions as per our very fruitful discussion after ASK's closure.

You should ALWAYS report things and we are not saying you police yourselves. That is the opposite. I'm saying for individuals if you are heated, just go do something else, and others can contribute to the discussion. This is pretty cut and dry. Discussion can continue but if people are going to be snarky and disrespectful they will not continue in this thread in particular. That's what I'm talking about. Report people doing that and they will be dealt with. This is the opposite of closing the thread. 

This thread has literally been the opposite of an echo chamber, in particular. 

I can tell you're upset, but we are literally doing exactly what people wanted from the fallout of ASK. No censoring. No public call-outs. Making sure discussion flows respectfully--which it has not today and has had some issues with earlier in this thread. Warn, discuss, and potentially remove bad apples from discussion. That's exactly what we intend to do. Obviously you're upset from ASK closure and we are working on moderating more effectively as per many people's feedback. I do not know what more you would want than continual improvement and effort made in this regard. ASK is a completely different thread where people felt it was the only way for people to discuss character stuff. Smaller dedicated threads have led to improvement and there are many good romance and character threads existing right now. This is an improvement having this be more decentralized, and has resulted in less conflict. If you'd like additional threads, post them then.

The insinuation that we close popular threads is completely ridiculous and is not a criteria for closing threads, nor ever will be. 

PM me if you'd like to continue discussion on this. We are not continuing this discussion here as it has nothing to do with Maya. This thread I have no intention of closing and we will be aggressive with dealing with disrespectful and snippy behavior, rather than let wounds fester. 

We will stay on topic from now on, here.

[Jofwu he/him]

1 hour ago, DeployParachute said:

Interesting.  I wholly agree with this...and yet, it feels like this sentiment is not always consistent across the Moderator Team.  If people say their piece and leave, and the only people remaining in the thread are an echo chamber for a particular viewpoint, at what point would the following sentiment apply to this particular thread?

People are welcome to discuss whatever they'd like to discuss. They can argue. They can gush about something they all agree on. Who cares? It's not our jobs, as moderators, to diversify discussion or require quality standards.

You imply ASK was closed because the staff didn't want a particular viewpoint expressed. Or perhaps because we wanted to make room for alternative opinions. That was not the case. It was closed because of constant instances in which people weren't treating one another respectfully. We have repeatedly explained that all opinions being expressed there are more than welcome to be expressed even now.

And the same is true of this thread. I've heard some fantastic ideas in here that I didn't consider. I've defended people with an alternate opinion than my own because I valued what they had to say. Chaos did NOT say that you should stop expressing your thoughts about the book in here. He said that you need to leave if you can't do so without being rude.

Edit: Whoops, was apparently typing the same time as Chaos. Wanted to edit to emphasize his point about staying on topic. If we want to discuss this further it should happen elsewhere. Back to Maya...

[Kaymyth she/her]

Well. We certainly hadn't meant to kill the thread entirely. Very well, staff stalled it out, so staff is gonna give it an epinephrine shot. Wham.

So, one of the discussion lines on the thread has been whether or not Adolin will revive Maya entirely. It's an interesting question, and one to which Brandon has laid out some breadcrumbs. There are several questions that need to be answered in order to come to a conclusion* on this.

Is it possible?

The answer to this question is without a doubt, most definitely, a resounding maybe. I kind of lean towards unlikely, just because of how difficult he's made it sound in the WoBs he's given on it. Sure, it might theoretically be possible, and it's certainly more probable than all of the molecules in my underclothes suddenly leaping three feet to the right of me, but it's difficult. There would have to be some truly heroic efforts on Adolin's part. I honestly think it's extremely unlikely that the answer to this question is a yes, but I'm not going to declare it with the solidity of it being etched in metal.

Is Adolin even Edgedancer material?

This has been debated back and forth quite a bit. I honestly don't think it's as important as the emotional effort people have put into this argument. Initial spren are attracted to people who embody their ideals. Once you know a Radiant, though, it becomes a lot easier to attract a spren's attention. Carrying around a dead Shardblade is functionally equivalent to hanging around a Radiant all the time (and hey, he's doing that, too), so all he really has to be is 1) not the antithesis of an Edgedancer, and 2) willing to commit to the Order's Ideals.

And now, the question that I haven't seen asked yet (and this is where I get controversial):

Is Adolin reviving Maya a narratively satisfying result?

No, I do not believe that it is, for several reasons.

1. "But, Crazy Unicorn Lady!" I hear you cry. "Has not Brandon seeded the possibility within our hearts?" Well, yes. And he's been just cagey enough about his protests of its impossibility to stoke the fires of belief. And that's my first big objection - it's too obvious. We know the ways and whims of this man. When has he ever given us such a clear path to an answer and then followed it without turning it into a giant misdirect? When has his foreshadowing ever so lacked subtlety? When in the lives of his characters do such events line up to give us such a nice, neat conclusion wrapped up in a big red bow?

2. Adolin hasn't earned it. Our forum's most ardent (ha) Adolin fan (hi, @maxal!) has admitted her disappointment at the lack of attention to Adolin's character development thus far. I would posit that it's simply not time for it yet; Brandon has been focusing on other storylines, but I'm sure Adolin won't remain the same forever. He's not ready to power up without going through some crem.

Combining these two points brings us to,

3. I don't see such a simple, linear progression for Adolin's character on the horizon. In fact, I'd be disappointed if it happened that way for precisely that reason. There's no dramatic tension if the readership can see the endgame from miles off, which tells me that there are more interesting things ahead for Adolin and Maya. Remember, Brandon is the man who breaks our hearts and leaves us begging for more. There are so many much more fascinating paths this can take. What if Adolin's continued bond with her wakes her up just enough to become much more cognizant of how much she's lost? What if Sja-anat decides to try to help with her corruption/enlightenment thing and breaks Maya even further? What if Adolin manages to go as far as he can with reviving her, only to bond a live spren of a different Order, and find himself compelled to give Maya up and leave her in an even worse state than she was in order to become a full Radiant himself?

There are so many possibilities. Tons more, I'm sure, than even I've thought of, and all of them more interesting than binary question of, "Does Adolin revive Maya? Y/N"

Here's to Brandon leaving all of our brains in the dust.

 

*Conclusions may vary. Please consult your librarian before starting on a conclusion regimen of your own. Side effects may include theorizing, itchy rash, mad giggling, and persistent use of the Oxford comma. Not recommended for people who are allergic to fuzzy bunny rabbits. Restrictions may apply. Disclaimer not valid in Alaska.

[anna she/her]

8 hours ago, Kaymyth said:

Is it possible?

The answer to this question is without a doubt, most definitely, a resounding maybe. I kind of lean towards unlikely, just because of how difficult he's made it sound in the WoBs he's given on it. Sure, it might theoretically be possible, and it's certainly more probable than all of the molecules in my underclothes suddenly leaping three feet to the right of me, but it's difficult.

 

So ... we just need to find out how probable it is, and feed that to the Infinite Improbability Drive?  Good thing Zaphod is a worldhopper!

[Bort he/him]

On 3/16/2018 at 4:07 PM, SLNC said:

Maya sighed. Adolin interpreted. He could be completely wrong in that interpretation. Maya has no choice, but to let herself be used as a weapon.

Maya sighed when Adolin told her to go with the Thaylen soldier. Didn't Adolin get a feeling of something like eagerness just before they went up against the thunderclast?