[Full Book Spoilers] Taln's Honorblade

[Moogle]

Well... thanks to reddit for sparking this particular theory.

 

Let's do some detective work:

“The Shardblade! Where did you get it?”

“How did you separate it from him, Bordin?”

“We didn’t, Brightlord. He just dropped it.”

“And it didn’t vanish away? Not bonded, then. He couldn’t have had it for long. Were his eyes this color when you found him?”

 

Here, we find that Dalinar took Taln's Blade. He hid it in a cave later for Amaram to steal (to see whether Amaram was trustworthy). He bonded with it.

 

“I wasn’t about to risk it just to prove a point,” Dalinar said, cold. “I bonded this Blade before we hid it away.”

 

Now... here's the problem.

 

Dalinar smiled grimly. “If possible. At least now I’ve got a way to fight that assassin, if he arrives. With all of these Shardblades flying around lately, I figured having one myself made too much sense to ignore.” He narrowed his eyes, turning eastward. “Even if it feels . . . wrong somehow to hold one. Strange, that. Why should it feel wrong? Perhaps I just miss my old Blade.”

 

“It will be what it must,” Dalinar said, summoning his Shardblade. As soon as it appeared, screams sounded in his head. He dropped the weapon as if it were an eel that had snapped at him. The screams vanished immediately.

 

Kaladin did not think the Honorblade he held felt wrong.

 

“What about this?” he asked, looking over the thin, silvery weapon. An unornamented Blade. That was supposed to be odd. “It doesn’t scream when I hold it.”

“That’s because it’s not a spren,” Syl said softly.

 

Here's a description of the Blade that Dalinar got from Taln:

 

White mist coalesced in Dalinar’s fingers, and a Shardblade appeared, tip to Amaram’s throat. Wider than most, it was almost cleaverlike in appearance.

 

Taln's Blade was described as...

long, narrow, and straight, shaped like an enormous spike.

 

Wit was traveling with Bordin. He took off after a while, though.

 

“After that, Your Majesty, Wit just kind of, well, ran off. Into the hills. Like some storming Horneater.”

 

So... there's only one conclusion I can see.

 

Taln's Honorblade was stolen by Wit. He replaced it with a regular Shardblade. Good work, Wit. How'd he unbond it from Taln, I wonder? Hemalurgy? That would explain Taln's unfortunate state of mind, though I don't think he went that far.

 

Any problems with this theory?

Edited March 5, 2014 by Moogle

[Gagylpus he/him]

I was just about to post on this topic!  I noticed the incongruity in the description of Taln's blade and the one Dalinar holds, and the fact that Dalinar's blade seems to be a regular old fallen Shardblade when he is speaking to the Stormfather. I totally forgot about Wit's antics on the route to the Shattered Plains. I think you're right! Wit must have taken the Honorblade and replaced it.

 

For that to have worked, though, I think he must have made the switch almost immediately after Taln's arrival. Otherwise Bordin would have noticed the switch. (Or he would have needed to do a lot of Lightweaving.)

[Azul he/him]

Its a good theory but two things bother me.

  1.  Dalinar was infusing at least a little stormlight at the end

  2. The Stormfather used almost the exact words that Mr. T used to described Szeth's blade  (that Monstrosity of a blade).

[+Aletus he/him]

Upvote for mr. moogle. I also found this odd, but was worried I may have just missed something in my read thru. Wit likes things of power. 

[HydrogenAlpha he/him]

It's a bit terrifying how much power Hoid has. Brandon said he was the most powerful non-shard in the cosmere .. and now he also has a Honorblade. 
I doubt there is anybody mortal who could stop him, if he wanted to cause some trouble.

[DiamondMind he/him]

Its a good theory but two things bother me.

1. Dalinar was infusing at least a little stormlight at the end

2. The Stormfather used almost the exact words that Mr. T used to described Szeth's blade (that Monstrosity of a blade).

1. Isn't that because of his bond?

2. They say the same thing for two entirely different reasons. King T because he's scared of its powers, the stormfather because he's disgusted by the blade made from a dead spren.

[Swimmingly he/him]

I bet he's got a cave on an asteroid somewhere, anchored to Shadesmar with the sheer volume of Investiture he's accumulated in various objects of power there.

[Azul he/him]

1. Isn't that because of his bond?

2. They say the same thing for two entirely different reasons. King T because he's scared of its powers, the stormfather because he's disgusted by the blade made from a dead spren.

 

1. I'm talking about when he fought with Szeth using the blade.  He infuses a bit of stormlight that heals him a bit.  After he makes his bond he remembers this

He felt his wounds healing in a familiar way. He’d done this before, he sensed. On the battlefield earlier? His arm felt fine now, and the cut on his side barely ached anymore.

 

2. I thought of this as well and I agree its very possible.

[junior]

Its a good theory but two things bother me.

  1.  Dalinar was infusing at least a little stormlight at the end

 

 

So was Renaren (his eyesight).  I'm not sure that this is an issue right at the start of the KR path.

[Azul he/him]

So was Renaren (his eyesight).  I'm not sure that this is an issue right at the start of the KR path.

 

It seems fairly obvious that Renarin had a spren he was beginning to bond with, similar to Kaladin/Syl and Shallan/Pattern.  I guess you could take the Stormfather sharing the visions with Dalinar as a beginning of a bond but I don't buy that.

[junior]

It seems fairly obvious that Renarin had a spren he was beginning to bond with, similar to Kaladin/Syl and Shallan/Pattern.  I guess you could take the Stormfather sharing the visions with Dalinar as a beginning of a bond but I don't buy that.

 

I think we have evidence of a bond during the battle.  The Stormfather's conversations with Dalinar - outside of the visions - start at that point.  He's also spoken with Kaladin (and possibly Shallan) in previous incidents, but both of those were during the height of the storm.  The storm was nowhere near that point when he started apologizing to Dalinar.

[Azul he/him]

I think we have evidence of a bond during the battle.  The Stormfather's conversations with Dalinar - outside of the visions - start at that point.  He's also spoken with Kaladin (and possibly Shallan) in previous incidents, but both of those were during the height of the storm.  The storm was nowhere near that point when he started apologizing to Dalinar.

Its very possible but I have problems with it.  Perhaps sharing the visions created some bond between them.   It seems fairly clear that the Stormfather had given up on humanity and was actively trying to keep spren from bonding.  At the end Dalinar has to almost force the bond on him

I AM THE SLIVER OF THE ALMIGHTY HIMSELF! the voice said, sounding angry. I AM THE STORMFATHER. I WILL NOT LET MYSELF BE BOUND IN SUCH A WAY AS TO KILL ME!

[Kurkistan he/him]

If it's a choice between the Dalinar-Stormfather bond starting up a bit informally—through the amount that they interacted and "proximity", if nothing else—and accepting the rather large mess of contradictions inherent in Dalinar's new Blade being the Honorblade otherwise described to us, then I think I'll go with the former.
 
 

It's a bit terrifying how much power Hoid has. Brandon said he was the most powerful non-shard in the cosmere .. and now he also has a Honorblade. 
I doubt there is anybody mortal who could stop him, if he wanted to cause some trouble.

 
Isn't it Awesome?

[marianmi]

* Definitely Dalinar's blade was not an honorblade. Since it's weird that Boldin did not notice the different => the blade was switched probably right after Taln passed out, before it got to Boldin... so only Wit could have done that. I'm assuming Wit is picking up the pieces, maybe to recreate the Honor shard? /hopefulthinking

 

* "I will not let myself bond in such a way as to kill me" => Dalinar - Stormfather bond is a bit different - maybe because of this limitation Stormfather will not become a Shard...

 

* Dalinar was infusing before the actual bond, but Kaladin was also infusing before the actual bond; also it looks to me Renarin got his eyesight back before the actual bond... probably he did not spoke the 1st truthwatcher ideal... I think he spoke the general one during the time of the battle, maybe when he cracked and started saying they are all dead? (btw, Renarin can Transport ... how awesome is that?)

Edited March 5, 2014 by marianmi

[Azul he/him]

I agree it was likely switched out.  I was just pointing out a few things I found a bit odd. Did Dalinar mention the blade screaming at all before speaking his Oaths?  As for the description of the blade, we don't know if Honorblades always retain the same shape.  I will need to go back and look at any descriptions we have of Jezrien's blade vs Szeth.  I know Kaladin makes mention of it being a 'unornamented blade' near the end.

[junior]

I agree it was likely switched out.  I was just pointing out a few things I found a bit odd. Did Dalinar mention the blade screaming at all before speaking his Oaths?  As for the description of the blade, we don't know if Honorblades always retain the same shape.  I will need to go back and look at any descriptions we have of Jezrien's blade vs Szeth.  I know Kaladin makes mention of it being a 'unornamented blade' near the end.

 

Dalinar uses the blade during the fighting on the Plateaus, and there's a brief mention that he finds it uncomfortable to use.  He doesn't get the full-on screaming effect, but he clearly senses that he shouldn't be using it.  At the time, he dismisses it as his unfamiliarity with the weapon (as opposed to his "own" shardblade, which he'd traded to Sadeas).

 

Speaking of which...

 

The last we saw of Relis, he was running screaming out of the arena.  Apparently holding his shardblade at the same time as Kaladin caused him to hear the same screaming that Kaladin did.  I wonder if we're going to meet Relis again in the future?

[Elbereth she/her]

Hoid probably didn't 'unbond' the blade from Taln. Courtesy of Talenelat, from the San Diego signing:

"Can someone bond more than one honorblade?"

His (paraphrased) answer:

Honorblade?  You can't bond an honorblade, though it can be given to you.  (Only now as I write this do I realize he didn't fully answer it, lol) Shardblades, however, come from a spren bond and it is possible to bond more than one.

[zandi she/her]

Hoid probably didn't 'unbond' the blade from Taln. Courtesy of Talenelat, from the San Diego signing:

Interesting- so dalinar can use an honor blade and it might not affect his bond with the storm father so kaladin could give him szeth's former blade...

Also if Hoid switched the blades maybe he intends to get it back to Taln at appropriate moment? (Maybe he has good intentions- or that just fits in with his seeming plan for positive interference?)

[dyring]

If that is so, then Dalinar(or another KR with an honorblade) could get access to 4 surges.

[harry31j97 he/him]

One problem with honorblades not being able to bond - Nalan says to Szeth in chapter 88 that 'Your bond to your Blade severed'. Also if there's no bond between the honorblade & the user, how is the user to call it to him from its invisible state? The unbound blade won't disappear if during a duel it's knocked out of the hand since it won't have bond through which user can give instructions & his opponent will also be able to use it. So I think the previously given information about honorblades is either a mistake, or it wasn't reported correctly word to word from Brandon, or Brandon changed his mind later on. Can anyone from his team confirm this?

Edited March 6, 2014 by harry31j97

[zandi she/her]

If that is so, then Dalinar(or another KR with an honorblade) could get access to 4 surges.

Possibly - but if Szeth's sword was Jezrien's (wind runners) then he would just get 1 extra surge since bondsmiths and windrunners share a surge...

 

But maybe honor blades don't confer surges to those who already have them? (unlikely I know) Because then wouldn't that be a strategy? Collect all the honor blades and become Super Herald?  I hope it doesn't work that way...

[Kurkistan he/him]

Some new info from Peter: It doesn't look like this was a mistake on their part: Dalinar likely wasn't using an Honorblade:

 

Source:

Douglas Fotheringham ‏@Molikai  10h

@BrandSanderson The main thing that bugged me about Talenelat's return: Shouldn't he have an honorblade, not a shardblade?

 

Peter Ahlstrom

@Molikai You would think.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Seerow]

I'm curious about the reference saying that an Honor Blade can't be bonded. If it can't be bonded, what happened with Szeth? Even if it was given to him, there had to be some sort of bond there for him to be able to summon and dismiss it, doesn't there?

[junior]

I'm curious about the reference saying that an Honor Blade can't be bonded. If it can't be bonded, what happened with Szeth? Even if it was given to him, there had to be some sort of bond there for him to be able to summon and dismiss it, doesn't there?

 

The Honorblade might recognize the "ownership" of the last person to grip it.  So if you hold a blade, you can dismiss it and resummon it.  But if someone else knocks it out of your hands and picks it up, they can now dismiss it and resummon it.

[PeterAhlstrom he/him]

Some new info from Peter: It doesn't look like this was a mistake on their part

 

Source:

Just in case there's any doubt: What's in the book is not an error.