Kurkistan he/him Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Thanks for nailing that down, Peter. Also, as a general comment, I'd just like to thank you for being so active on the boards these last few weeks. I don't doubt that you've managed to avert some disastrously ill-informed turns of conversation and/or guide us the right way on some interesting subjects. 2
Daishi5 Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 I just remembered something. Originally, they couldn't bond shardblades. They found they could attach gems, or fabrials and then they could bind them. If it wasn't for the fact that Dalinar hears screams from his blade after he bonds with the Stormfather, I would suspect he actually had an Honorblade. The fact that the Stormfather used the same word for his blade as Mr. T did, still makes me suspect it (but I think I am just paranoid about it). Location 15656 of the Kindle Edition, they talk about how after the recreance, they discovered they could bond with blades by adding gemstones. The bond was something added to shardblades, it is not an actual inherent property of the blade.
Argent he/him Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 I think the part about how adding gems to the Shardblades allows people to bond with them is just a product of the Alethi not understanding how Shardblades work and what they are. The Radiants themselves didn't really need to bond with their Blades - since the Blades were really just their spren, with which they were already bonded. During the Recreance every Radiant who betrayed his or her oaths severed that bond. But people couldn't just pick up a Blade and bond with it because there was nothing to bond with - the spren were effectively dead. I firmly believe that the gems were necessary... fuel, but they were relevant only to people who wanted to bond with "dead" Blades. No, the Blade Dalinar used and dropped must have been one of the "dead" ones. Good catch though, I missed it (though that's normal for me before my first reread). 1
marianmi Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) Thanks for nailing that down, Peter. Also, as a general comment, I'd just like to thank you for being so active on the boards these last few weeks. I don't doubt that you've managed to avert some disastrously ill-informed turns of conversation and/or guide us the right way on some interesting subjects. OR AWAY FROM SOME INTERESTING DISCOVERIES I think the part about how adding gems to the Shardblades allows people to bond with them is just a product of the Alethi not understanding how Shardblades work and what they are. The Radiants themselves didn't really need to bond with their Blades - since the Blades were really just their spren, with which they were already bonded. During the Recreance every Radiant who betrayed his or her oaths severed that bond. But people couldn't just pick up a Blade and bond with it because there was nothing to bond with - the spren were effectively dead. I firmly believe that the gems were necessary... fuel, but they were relevant only to people who wanted to bond with "dead" Blades. No, the Blade Dalinar used and dropped must have been one of the "dead" ones. Good catch though, I missed it (though that's normal for me before my first reread). I think it's clear that Honorblades are not bonded. When I read about the 5 days spent by Dalinar "bonding" the blade I went back and re-read the description of the blade from WoR and the description of the blade in TwoK - they are clearly not the same. This subject is as good as closed Since I believe the guy that brought Taln to the Shattered Plains (Belvin?) is really loyal to Dalinar, and he did not notice the difference - it means the blade was switched very early on. Since we know Hoid was there when Taln came, for me it's clear currently Hoid has the Honorblade. Another explication could be that somehow Belvin's memory of the blade was tampered with, but this is far less probable than Hoid. I don't think he was there just to welcome Taln back Edited March 7, 2014 by marianmi
Zmann966 he/him Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Hahhaha!Okay, without sounding crazy, laughing to myself and all, I want to quote Szeth and Taravangian from their talk in I-14: "...Yes it makes sense now. One of the Honorblades has vanished."Szeth blinked, and he focused on Taravangian, as if returning from a distant place. "One of the other seven?" I'm sorry what? One of the other seven?!Ohh yes, aside from our poor-Damnation-maddened Herald of War, another of the Honorblades is missing...I know many think, possibly Nalan, of the Skybreakers (or "Darkness" as Lift prefers) might have his... And yet...Well, it either proves the Skybreakers don't hold THAT strictly to their own rules (at least to the abandoning of the Oathpact) or.... Or something else is amiss.Which, knowing Brandon we won't find out until Book 9 and it'll leave all our brains exploded on the walls. But for now, we know that Shinovar has only eight Honorblades, seven total now that Kaladin possesses (what is assumed to be) Jezrien's blade.
Cayden Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Surgebinding comes from spren, which is basically their recreation of the link between a Herald and an Honorblade, we've basically seen Nalan surgebind and use stormlight to be able to keep up with a surgebinder so he must either have a spren or an Honorblade. The real question in my mind is which of the Heralds reclaimed their blade as well. If one of the 7 has been retrieved then it was by a Herald. As for the Skybreakers keeping their rules? Im not sure about that I think Nalan's mind is broken and that he cannot get over the fact that he has betrayed his Oath, and his response for that is an almost zealous dedication to making sure no other surgebinders can betray their oaths or missuse their abilities. But yes I think Taln's blade was switched, my main reason for that more than anything and is something I was wondering when Dalinar first said he had bonded it was that he felt no different, he could not absorb stormlight, yes he might not have tried but if he had to carry it around for a week, I would be surprised if he could manage to not breath in while holding a gemstone in his pocket and realise he has something special. Im actually wondering if Zahel will end up with an Honorblade, seems like there has to be a very good reason for being there, maybe Hoid is playing tricks and made sure that Nightblood would be on Roshar as a last ditched defence against Odium. Maybe he offered Zahel a chance to help them while not needing Breath and freedom from the sword.
marianmi Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) I'm sorry what? One of the other seven?! Ohh yes, aside from our poor-Damnation-maddened Herald of War, another of the Honorblades is missing... Brandon said one Herald went back for his/her blade. I would nominate Chach (brave/obedient) or Battar (wise/careful). Chach because nobody would expect her (since she would supposedly obey the decision). Battar because she is wise. Im actually wondering if Zahel will end up with an Honorblade, seems like there has to be a very good reason for being there, maybe Hoid is playing tricks and made sure that Nightblood would be on Roshar as a last ditched defence against Odium. Maybe he offered Zahel a chance to help them while not needing Breath and freedom from the sword. Why would he want a honorblade? He misses his own Blade I can't wait for Szeth vs. Vasher As for the Skybreakers keeping their rules? Im not sure about that I think Nalan's mind is broken and that he cannot get over the fact that he has betrayed his Oath, and his response for that is an almost zealous dedication to making sure no other surgebinders can betray their oaths or missuse their abilities. Nalan's cronies are not really Skybreakers. I don't really think they keep their rules. I'm hoping for Adolin to become the first true Skybreaker Edited March 7, 2014 by marianmi
Kurkistan he/him Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Brandon said one Herald went back for his/her blade. I would nominate Chach (brave/obedient) or Battar (wise/careful). Chach because nobody would expect her (since she would supposedly obey the decision). Battar because she is wise. Interesting. I haven't seen that WoB: mind dropping a link? Also, if we have confirmation that it's one the Heralds that went back, I think it almost has to have been Nalan. He's Infusing in the Lift interlude and clearly taking an interest in world events these days.
Aleksiel Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Why wouldn't Taln have a bond with his Honorblade? Of course it didn't disappear when he passed out, that's not how Honorblades work from what we've seen in WoK. I think Hoid did take it to prevent others from acquiring an Honorblade. The bond can't be broken unless the Herald leaves the Blade and Taln didn't abandon it, so the bond stays. But he isn't in his right mind yet, so he hadn't resummoned it. I wonder if Hoid gave Nightblood to Nalan in exchange for a Shardblade. 1
Kurkistan he/him Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 That'd be a poor deal on Hoid's part. Shardblades were being passed out like candy in WoR while Nightblood is singular, not to mention the whole "orders of magnitude" concern.
junior Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Nalan's cronies are not really Skybreakers. I don't really think they keep their rules. I'm hoping for Adolin to become the first true Skybreaker The one that gets in trouble during the Lift interlude doesn't seem to understand the importance of following the law. Nalan does, though, obviously, since Lift's pardon is enough to get Nalan to back down even though he could have killed her and fled before anyone could have done anything about it. 1
taxilian he/him Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Reading through the thoughts here, I have to point out a couple of things: Just because you can't bond an honorblade doesn't mean there isn't any type of link between the honorblade and owner/carrier. In fact, it seems pretty obvious that there *is* some sort of link, since Szeth could summon it at will. What is more interesting to me is why Szeth's honorblade took 10 heartbeats to appear like the others. As to how the link/bond/whatever works... who knows? Maybe the sword bonds you =] I'm seeing a lot of talk about "bonding" spren as though it's a single event. Remember that there are 5 ideals, and each of the 5 seems to strengthen a link that started before any were specified. In each case there seems to be some sort of personality catalyst (Kaladin's honor and desire to protect, Shallan's art and lies/truths, Dallinar's ... leadership? confidence? not sure) before any of the ideals are even spoken. Shallan has aparently spoken the first ideal long ago (we don't seem to know when) and she had access to pattern as a shardblade long before the Truth that seems to have served as her second ideal ("I killed my father"). My point is that the bond works a little differently with different spren and I would guess that Dalinar actually started "bonding" with the StormFather when the visions began and the bond grew slowly stronger as time progressed. By the time he was ready to actually formalize it he was starting to be able to use small amounts of stormlight. This exactly follows the pattern Kalladin followed, so I'm not sure why people are confused by it =] As a few people have said, this can't possibly be an honor blade that Dalinar has. Reasons: The blade doesn't look right Gemstones were added to shardblades to make it possible to "bond" the dead spren. Thus, an honorblade wouldn't have one. Whether or not an honorblade can be bonded there is no way it would work the same way as an artificial bond such as that The scream comes from the remnant of the "dead" spren -- an honorblade is neither dead nor a spren, thus it wouldn't scream. Looking forward to piecing together more parts of this if any of my friends / immediate reading group ever finish the book... =] 3
Seerow Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Could the Stone Shamans have put a gem in Szeth's Honorblade to make it bond the same way the Shardblades do?
Dahak he/him Posted March 8, 2014 Posted March 8, 2014 Its very possible but I have problems with it. Perhaps sharing the visions created some bond between them. It seems fairly clear that the Stormfather had given up on humanity and was actively trying to keep spren from bonding. At the end Dalinar has to almost force the bond on him The Stormfathers just being tsundere. 2
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