[OB] Argent's "Secret Renarin WoB", a.k.a. The Page™

[Darvys]

Aren't we putting too much weight on Brandon's specific choice here ? He could simply have been hinting at a link to Odium (and his unmade) and not to voidbinding in particular, if he wanted to give a clear answer he could have just said it. 

Still we can guess at it. Forewarning, i suck at magic related speculation :

If a spren is a bit of a Shard's investiture gaining sentience we can easily assume that the type of power (void vs surge) it grants will depend on the Shard that gave it birth, now what if to corrupt a spren Sja-Anat were to somehow inject some of her own investiture (which is of Odium) into a spren born of another Shard, would that change the essence of the spren, making it something brand new with access to both power sources ? It could fit.

[Yata he/him]

On 22/11/2017 at 8:09 PM, Argent said:

I think I disagree. I agree that Glys was most likely a Truthwatcher spren once, and had the same kind of access to Progression and Illumination as all the other Truthwatcher spren, but Odium's investiture (through Sja-anat's Enlightenment) has changed the way he manipulate one or both of those Surges. 

I may be wrong indeed.

Anyway after thinking about Renarin's case for some days. I change my mind another more controversial.

I could see Renarin's Powers as Voidbindnig (probably both of Surges are in their Voidish Forms) IF the Fused are not Voidbinder.

I wanted to open a topic about but I have not the time to do it properly.

In my optic the Fused are.... organic "Savant fabrial users" (honestly I don't know how to call them) and they are simply employing some organic version of the Surge Fabrial we already saw.

[Shuffel]

Remember Azure was never afraid of throwing items with awakening before. Even after Zahel warns her against it.

[shawnhargreaves he/him]

6 hours ago, Yata said:

Anyway after thinking about Renarin's case for some days. I change my mind another more controversial.

I could see Renarin's Powers as Voidbindnig (probably both of Surges are in their Voidish Forms) IF the Fused are not Voidbinder.

I wanted to open a topic about but I have not the time to do it properly.

In my optic the Fused are.... organic "Savant fabrial users" (honestly I don't know how to call them) and they are simply employing some organic version of the Surge Fabrial we already saw.

I believe the Fused are indeed not using Voidbinding, and would go further than them being of some organic origin.  I have a crazy idea that they were originally created by Honor, as an earlier variant of the same idea that later led to the Heralds.  Couple of posts explaining this line of thinking:

 

 

[FeatherFawkes]

I wonder if it's possible to have the same surge of the Knights as well as of the Voidbinders. You know, that perhaps Renarins healing is that good because he has something like a doubled surge.

Like I said, no idea if it's possible, just a thought I got.

I guess what speaks against it are signs showing he might be able to do Lightweaving.

[soyperson]

So Renarin, then, is the Roshar equivalent of a Twinborn. 

Sweet.

[Song she/her]

This might have been brought up previously (new here!), but has anyone noted the epitaph on Chapter 82

 

"Don't tell anyone. I can't say it. I must whisper. I foresaw this."

-From drawer 30-20, a particularly small emerald

The Emeralds were left by the Truthwatchers. Which suggests Renarin might not be the first of his order to bond with a corrupted spren...

[Oversleep]

On 7.12.2017 at 6:53 AM, Song said:

This might have been brought up previously (new here!), but has anyone noted the epitaph on Chapter 82

Actually, it seems it's part of a larger record left by that particular Truthwatcher:

[Smallpox]

I'm about to finish my re-read of Oathbringer, and I couldnt find anything that supports the claim that Glys is a corrupted Truthwatcher spren.

It is mentioned that Sja-anat can only corrupt lesser spren, and in her page in Mythica it says she can create her own spren. She also says that her son(or child, dont remember the exact word) can vouch for her(can we all agree that she speaks about Glys?).

From what I can see 90% of the people here think that Glys is a truthwatcher spren. Am I missing something? Is there a WOB about that?

Edited December 11, 2017 by Smallpox

[Song she/her]

In the last chapter before the epilogue, Shallan wonders if Mraize knows that Renarin has bonded with one of Sja-anat's spren. So while it isn t a WOB, it seems to be the assumption of the characters who know about it.

[The Sovereign he/him]

3 hours ago, Smallpox said:

From what I can see 90% of the people here think that Glys is a truthwatcher spren. Am I missing something? Is there a WOB about that?

Renarin specifically says it in the book. He says that something had happened to Glys a long time ago that had changed him but that Glys couldn't remember it well. He also says that it happened before he had bonded Glys.

[Smallpox]

4 hours ago, Smallpox said:

I'm about to finish my re-read of Oathbringer

Couldnt remember that from my first time, and I havent got to there yet. thanks for the clarification.

[The Sovereign he/him]

50 minutes ago, Smallpox said:

Couldnt remember that from my first time, and I havent got to there yet. thanks for the clarification.

It is during the battle of Thaylen City just before Renarin's encounter with Jasnah I believe.

[Vissy]

This makes me ask a question...

If you make a Truthwatcher and a Lightweaver work together, could they manifest the Truthwatcher's Illumination-visions as the Lightweaver's Illumination-holograms? Kinda like how Shallan and Dalinar made the map in Urithiru manifest as if from the Stormfather's viewpoint? 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Vissy

[Leyrann]

33 minutes ago, Vissy said:

This makes me ask a question...

If you make a Truthwatcher and a Lightweaver work together, could they manifest the Truthwatcher's Illumination-visions as the Lightweaver's Illumination-holograms? Kinda like how Shallan and Dalinar made the map in Urithiru manifest as if from the Stormfather's viewpoint? 

That sounds like a resonance between the Truthwatcher and Lightweaver resonances.

I like it.

[The Sovereign he/him]

1 hour ago, Vissy said:

This makes me ask a question...

If you make a Truthwatcher and a Lightweaver work together, could they manifest the Truthwatcher's Illumination-visions as the Lightweaver's Illumination-holograms? Kinda like how Shallan and Dalinar made the map in Urithiru manifest as if from the Stormfather's viewpoint? 

I somewhat doubt this, as I believe that the thing with the map was actually a result of Shallan's Lightweaving interacting with Dalinar's Spiritual Adhesion. It might be possible for Dalinar and Renarin to manifest the visions somehow though.

[animalia]

I thought this might be relevant Emergence

Tell me that the real world phenomenon of emergence doesn’t remind anyone else of Resonance?

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 11/26/2017 at 11:58 AM, Darvys said:

If a spren is a bit of a Shard's investiture gaining sentience we can easily assume that the type of power (void vs surge) it grants will depend on the Shard that gave it birth,

Skyeels, chasmfiends and Parshendi counter that assumption. So many native life forms of Roshar living in symbiosis with Spren virtually makes certain that spren predate the shattering of Adonalsium. In fact it says that they are millions if not billions of years old. It is possible that the arrival of humans created new types of spren, but many of them must be ancient.

[Pagerunner he/him]

Isaac made a passing comment about the "Voidbinding" chart in his recent AMA. He refers to it as a Surgebinding chart.

Quote

Koh-the-face-Stealer

What's your favorite piece of art that you've done for the Cosmere?

Isaac Stewart

My favorite piece of art I've done for the Cosmere would have to be the oil painting of the Roshar map, with the Shadesmar map and Surgebinding charts probably close seconds. Thanks for asking!

Isaac Stewart r/Stormlight_Archive AMA (Oct. 1, 2019)

(If the chart in the back of WoK isn't a Surgebinding chart, then Isaac has only created one. Since there are plural "charts," the one in the back must also be a form of Surgebinding.)

Which makes sense. The glyphs are all the same, just presented differently; the only substantial differences between the charts are some of the interconnecting lines. And it fits with how Renarin has a "corrupted" form of Illumination instead of the typical Surge.

But it raises questions of relationships to Shards. Which Shard is Surgebinding "of"? Is Voidbinding a separate magic system entirely, or an expansion of Surgebinding? Is there a true Odious magic system floating around out there (the infamous "ten levels") which we have yet to see in detail?

[Argent he/him]

Hmm.

This throws a pretty nasty wrench in a lot of things. Also, Brandon has referred to that chart as a Voidbinding chart, so maybe this is just Isaac mislabeling it. 

I don't like this, I think I am going to ignore it for now...

[Pagerunner he/him]

I would be wary of selling Isaac short. He does get access to info we don't have to be able to create these things. I recall, at JordanCon a few years back, Isaac was speaking about glyphs, and he mentioned a connection between Alethi glyph components and Dawnchant. Several people who were in the room "corrected" Isaac, informing him that Dawnchant was the singer language, not the human language. But, in the intervening years, we've learned that Alethi glyphs do ultimately derive from Dawnchant. I think this may be something similar, where Isaac's terminology differs from our own because he has more information, not because we (the fans) do.