[OB] the three godspren

[NightFrost]

So in oathbringer the stormfather speaks of his siblings who the other bondsmiths would have bonds to. I think that the other two godspen are linked to the diffrent elements of the world. Like the stromfather for air and possibly the Nightwatcher for earth this leaves one more for water. I picked these three elements because they are the ones that have the most impact on the people of Roshar. I know this might not make sense because we believe that the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher are pieces of Honor's and Cultivation's power but conversions that Dalinar had with the SF lead me to believe that the Stormfather was on the planet before Honor came to it. This could also hold true for the Nightwatcher. My evidence for the water godspren is that since spren are powers of nature given form It makes sense that the ocean would have a spren.

[Egomere]

hmmm all I know for sure is that the Stormfather seems to care for her (because he tells Dalinar that your've hurt her too much already) then refuses to talk more.

[The Invested Beard]

I've said it elsewhere but I think Cusicesh is the other Sibling.

[Egomere]

2 minutes ago, The Invested Beard said:

I've said it elsewhere but I think Cusicesh is the other Sibling.

But is Cusicesh male or female? Because as I said I'm sure the Stormfather calls the sibling female...

[The Invested Beard]

That is unknown. Here's the Coppermind description:

"At exactly seven forty-six in the morning every day, it rises from the waters of the bay, sending out an illusory wake. At over one hundred feet tall, it is one of the largest spren Axies the Collector studied. It is a translucent blue color, ranging from deep blue in the center to a lighter blue on the surface. It forms four long arms and a face looking toward the Origin that shifts through male and female human faces. Some of the people of Kasitor worship it, placing golden pedestals out to honor it. It commonly leaves a feeling of being "drained" in those who witness it."

From WoB we know that it is on the same level of spren as the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher. Also notice the abundance of water mentions in it's description. My money's on Cusi.

[Egomere]

@The Invested Beard Well I will definately lay money down on the fact that is Spren is the Sibling but whether it's Cuis I'm not sure. Especially as we don't know the identity of the last Unmade (who could be Cuis or Dal-gon pretending to be Cuis or a number of any others. Need more info - or preferably Book 4 and 5

[StormingTexan he/him]

I agree the third is the giant water spren that I don't know how to spell their name. I originally assumed it was one from each Shard but I think from the SF comments that is wrong however the Honor and Cultivation used them as their avatars. Interesting though didn't the giant thing that brought the Thrill to the battle come from the sea? Could Odium have corrupted the giant water spren? 

[CaptainRyan he/him]

7 minutes ago, The Invested Beard said:

From WoB we know that it is on the same level of spren as the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher.

Actually, I think the WoB says that Cusicesh is a step below the Stormfather and Nightwatcher.

From Arcanum: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/2-jordancon-2016/#e174 [emphasis mine]

Quote

Questioner

Speaking of the Stormfather, would the Nightwatcher and the giant water spren be on the same level of spren as the Stormfather?

Brandon Sanderson

...The Nightwatcher, yes. Um... There are, I would say, a level below the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher who are also much-- a much bigger deal than something like one of the sapient spren, and that's what Cusicesh is.

That being said, this portion of the description, "It commonly leaves a feeling of being "drained" in those who witness it.", is interesting because we see people reacting the same way to the appearance of the Stormfather at Dalinar's wedding. (I don't have the book on me so I cannot quote it but I remember Dalinar mentioning that his Bridge [13?] guards looked drained after the Stormfather left the wedding.)

So, I think it is possible Cusicesh is the "Sibling" but I am hesitant to go with that theory because Brandon seems to imply there are a number of powerful spren, who are below the Stormfather and Nightwatcher, in the world of which Cusicesh is just one.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

7 minutes ago, The Invested Beard said:

From WoB we know that it is on the same level of spren as the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher.

I assume you mean this one, which does not say what you are implying.

Quote

Questioner

Speaking of the Stormfather, would the Nightwatcher and the giant water spren be on the same level of spren as the Stormfather?

Brandon Sanderson

...The Nightwatcher, yes. Um... There are, I would say, a level below the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher who are also much-- a much bigger deal than something like one of the sapient spren, and that's what Cusicesh is.

He says the Nightwatcher is on the same level as the Stormfather. He then says there is a level below the two of them, but far above normal Sentient Spren, and that middle level is where Cusicesh is at.

And ninja's by CaptainRyan. Nice job.

[The Invested Beard]

3 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

Actually, I think the WoB says that Cusicesh is a step below the Stormfather and Nightwatcher.

From Arcanum: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/2-jordancon-2016/#e174 [emphasis mine]

That being said, this portion of the description, "It commonly leaves a feeling of being "drained" in those who witness it.", is interesting because we see people reacting the same way to the appearance of the Stormfather at Dalinar's wedding. (I don't have the book on me so I cannot quote it but I remember Dalinar mentioning that his Bridge [13?] guards looked drained after the Stormfather left the wedding.)

So, I think it is possible Cusicesh is the "Sibling" but I am hesitant to go with that theory because Brandon seems to imply there are a number of powerful spren, who are below the Stormfather and Nightwatcher, in the world of which Cusicesh is just one.

Possibly a level below the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher because of whatever happened to it during the Recreance, diminishing it's status/abilities?

Also possibly because it, unlike SF and NW isn't connected to a shard directly?

Edited November 20, 2017 by The Invested Beard

[CaptainRyan he/him]

4 minutes ago, The Invested Beard said:

Possibly a level below the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher because of whatever happened to it during the Recreance, diminishing it's status/abilities?

Definitely a possibility. The WoB seems to suggest there are a number of spren at this "level" and, if I had to guess, I would say Cusicesh is just another high level spren. But hey, who knows?  

[Nepene he/him]

I'm still leaning towards the third godspren being one that inhabited Urithiru and made the fabrials work and kept the unmade away, a fusion of honor and cultivation's power, and them dwelling somewhere near the Shin as the god of Stone Shamanism, a holy and magical stone spren. 

[IntentAwesome]

Has anyone ever asked Brandon if there is a spren that represents Roshar itself? Spren are essentially ideas given a sentient form. The stormfather is such a large, powerful spren in part because people often think of him. (And he's merged with the remnants of Honor, but ignoring that.) Surely there's got to be a spren that is the representation of people's idea of the world.

And we know that the Singers originally worshipped spren, stone, and wind. 

Quote

For their betrayal exteneded even to our gods: to spren, stone, and wind. (Kindle 1043)

We know the Shin still worship stone, and I think that is going to come into play at some point.  I think that something along the lines of a Roshar/stone spren is a good candidate for the third sibling.

[Sparkrunner he/him]

OKOKOKOK. I have to say this, because this is what I think. I think that the third spren is "The Hog," that some guy has to wrestle with in Herdaz. A giant water creature, ya ya? And we only have this one interlude chapter, isolated, and the only thing we learn from it, the only thing we get from it, is that giant claw coming out of the water.

[The Invested Beard]

34 minutes ago, Roadwalker said:

OKOKOKOK. I have to say this, because this is what I think. I think that the third spren is "The Hog," that some guy has to wrestle with in Herdaz. A giant water creature, ya ya? And we only have this one interlude chapter, isolated, and the only thing we learn from it, the only thing we get from it, is that giant claw coming out of the water.

That was a very odd interlude and seemed completely unconnected. You make me wonder.

Of course it could have just been Brandon blowing off some steam and wanting a laugh.

Edited November 20, 2017 by The Invested Beard

[Dryone_2]

2 minutes ago, The Invested Beard said:

That was a very odd interlude and seemed completely unconnected. You make me wonder.

Of course it could have just been Brandon blowing off some steam and wanting a laugh.

I think this form of punishment was mentioned in an earlier book.

[Calderis he/him]

9 hours ago, Roadwalker said:

OKOKOKOK. I have to say this, because this is what I think. I think that the third spren is "The Hog," that some guy has to wrestle with in Herdaz. A giant water creature, ya ya? And we only have this one interlude chapter, isolated, and the only thing we learn from it, the only thing we get from it, is that giant claw coming out of the water.

8 hours ago, The Invested Beard said:

That was a very odd interlude and seemed completely unconnected. You make me wonder.

Of course it could have just been Brandon blowing off some steam and wanting a laugh.

The man in that interlude, Sheler, was Tiens squad leader who sacrificed him for a slight advantage. 

That interlude was us witnessing Karma.

Edit: looked it up in book to check. The squad leader was a man named Varth, but it was Brightwood Sheler's company. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Calderis

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

7 minutes ago, Calderis said:

The man in that interlude, Sheler, was Tiens squad leader who sacrificed him for a slight advantage. 

That interlude was us witnessing Karma. 

That's amazing! I hadn't put it together yet.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Fifth of Daybreak

[The Invested Beard]

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

The man in that interlude, Sheler, was Tiens squad leader who sacrificed him for a slight advantage. 

That interlude was us witnessing Karma. 

Well that makes it even better. Very nice.

[Tetrisash]

My vote goes to Cusicesh being an Unmade. The actual Sibling though, hmm, I'm dying to find out. And witnessing what we did with Dalinar's bond with the Stormfather, I'd love to know what the other to-be Bondsmiths can do.

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

The man in that interlude, Sheler, was Tiens squad leader who sacrificed him for a slight advantage. 

That interlude was us witnessing Karma. 

I didn't notice this at all, that's awesome!

[Brackcha he/him]

I kinda wonder if we might he sja-Anat as the third one for each shard. She seems almost in appearance like a deadeye and- correct me if I'm wrong- there was a mention of her sometimes leading the voidbringers putting her a step above the other unmade possibly on the same level of storm father and night watcher

[DSC01 he/him]

I knew that name seemed familiar! I was too excited by the constant awesomeness to stop and look things up every time something tickled my memory.

[Stairdweller he/him]

I have a few thoughts.

Odium is the void that the voidbringers bring.  He absorbs peoples pains and passions, leaving them empty and guiltfree.  Axies said cusicech left him feeling "drained."  I don't know if Aimians are emotionally similar enough to humans for him to react the same way to something odium-like.  But!  After the cusicech sighting an urchin stole Axies waist wrap, leaving him to be arrested for public indecency, and no-one spoke up for him, including Axies himself who was just like "oh well, jail again."  Although that might just be Axies personality.  But I feel like the crime might be relevant.  Question: why does is spren face the origin?

 

The stormfather called the 3rd sibling "they," and said "you've done enough to them."  That might be consistent with the many faces thing.

 

About the Brandon comment... it honestly seems kind of ambiguous to me.  He also says that Shards are spren.  Is Cusicech one step down from a shard?

 

I have a theory about Odium-s spren.  I think the Knight's Radiant bound Odium's spren, and this was what broke the singers' connection to the other realms (or whatever is wrong with them) and made the "slaveform" parshmen.  I think that's what the stormfather meant when he said "you've done enough to them."  Now, I know there are issues, like obviously the fact that odium came with the humans, so how did parshmen work before?  We're missing information about how the humans and singers switched shards.  Also - did the everstorm free odium's spren? Or did it "fix" the parshmen with a different mechanism?  If it did free that Spren, it seems like it wouldn't have happened until the everstorm reached western Roshar for the first time - after its first pass through new natanan.  And why exactly were the parshendi exempt from the parshmen's issue?

[Calthrop he/him]

I have some thoughts on a spren that I believe to be a solid candidate for the Sibling. 

A major question implied by the existence of the Sibling is how on Roshar has a spren on the level of the Stormfather/Nightwatcher been able to conceal itself so well for so long?

Well, there's an enormous spren walking around that we never got a name for (as far as I know). It also happens to like long walks with the Stormfather, and I suspect he's using the highstorms as cover to hide it, which would fit really well given his attitude towards the Sibling.

When viewpoint characters in WoR are trapped in a chasm and caught in a highstorm, they note two enormous spren pacing the storm. One is pretty likely the Stormfather himself (perhaps being viewed partially in the cognitive realm). We never get much discussion of the second, but it's definitely there and certainly distinct from the Stormfather. "Alien and sleek" was the exact description, I believe.  It is implied that it appears of similar size to the Stormfather.

Interestingly, the character(s) never seem to wonder about this second giant spren after the storm.

I personally don't believe that the Sibling has to physically be in Urithiru, though I've found some folks who militantly believe that it must still be inside the tower itself.  If the minor functions of the Tower that still function are a hanging point, the spren I refer to would actually pass by the Tower regularly as it walks the highstorms with the Stormfather.  Regarding the whole 'slumbering' bit, my guess at this point would involve a sort of waking dream, sustained by the constant presence of so much stormlight in the highstorms.

In any case, with what we've learned in Oathbringer and the fact that the Stormfather would at least be aware of this spren walking his storms, the idea that the Stormfather is concealing the Sibling from humans makes too much sense to ignore in my opinion.  At the very least, I think it's something to consider : )

[Shoots]

Speaking of the power level of the god spren compared to the likes of Cusicesh, do we know how the unmade compare in power? Are they equal to the godspren, in the same tier as Cusicesh, or in-between the two levels?