[OB] Full Book Reactions / Full Spoilers Thread

[EC11 he/him]

2 hours ago, Briar King said:

Ok I just finished. This was the 1st Sanderson I have ever struggled with. There are some good sprinkles throughout and part 5 was a pure page turner but it was to little wayyyyyy to late for me. This book was bad overall and I cringe when I think I paid $35 for it. This is a new experience for me with this author who I really like. 

2/10

I wouldn't rate it that low, but I agree this was probably the weakest installment in the series so far. There was a lot being thrown around and I didn't find any of the character arcs as satisfying as I did in books 1 and 2.

Some of the characters seemed to slip here, and the sheer amount of stuff going on made it hard to follow some threads. Overall Shallan, Dalinar, Adolin, and Jasnah had the biggest growth. 

On 12/17/2017 at 0:07 PM, Wit Beyond Measure said:

I've fallen in love with how Sanderson packs these gems in all over the place that can only be truly valued on rereads!  

Though we could have heard more Aesudan backstory, for sure, everything we did get pointed toward her being evil.  In the prologue of WoK, for instance, Jasnah is hiring an assassin for Aesudan.  Though she says she wants only tracking and reporting, she does add, "for now."  Gun hung.  That prologue left me expecting something wicked from the queen.

And then also in WoK, Pai joins the monastery of debauchery attached to the queen, finding herself the only righteous ardent in a sea of sycophants.  Pai loudly proclaims that Aesudan embodies all ten fools, and then Pai finds herself executed, presumably by command or at least consent of the queen.  

Regarding Kaladin's Kholinar reaction, I actually loved that he was sent into shock by killing the enemy he had personally known and loved.  Kaladin's inability to easily overcome slaughtering good folks is the only thing that separates him from the Voidbringers. 

The little tidbits throughout the book were fascinating, but the overall plot itself seemed to slump.

Aesudan had zero characterization in book one (not even a name!) and her bare bones characterization showed yes she was neglectful and caused the riots, but gave no lead to the fact she would be bonding one of the unmade! It feels like it was more of a last minute addition almost, and it was sprung so suddenly (and she only appeared in that one scene) that the whole reveal felt slightly pointless.

Odium's reveal had the biggest oomph for me, and Dalinar's story was perhaps the most interesting from a growth perspective. Yeah Shallan grew too, but Kaladin seemed to slip backwards. Renarin's plot line seemed almost thrown in at random and so when his spren was "wrong" I couldn't really do anything but scratch my head at that. There was very little lead up, and quite frankly we needed more time with Jasnah to really get a look at what was going on from her perspective.

Personally, I blame the weakness of the Kholinar arc for the failings on some parts of the book, but I'm hoping book 4 sorts much of the hanging threads out.

[Briar King]

2/10 is a very low score I agree. I can’t believe I even had to give it that honestly. It actually hurts me that I had such a bad reaction to this book. Part of it is that $35. The book was a true slog from around pg 250 to well past 1K. 

I disliked it so much I don’t think I will ever reread it(baring part 5) years from now before the last book hits. 

Extremely disappointing to me.

[stormlore]

13 hours ago, Briar King said:

2/10 is a very low score I agree. I can’t believe I even had to give it that honestly. It actually hurts me that I had such a bad reaction to this book. Part of it is that $35. The book was a true slog from around pg 250 to well past 1K. 

I disliked it so much I don’t think I will ever reread it(baring part 5) years from now before the last book hits. 

Extremely disappointing to me.

I have to admit I wonder what you were smoking to come to this conclusion.  Is it possible you were in a  weird frame of mind or distracted while reading this book?  I found it to be my favorite and loved where the story went.  Even if it didn't fulfill all things I wanted I recognize the genius of it.

[Housedunn]

16 hours ago, EC11 said:

I wouldn't rate it that low, but I agree this was probably the weakest installment in the series so far. There was a lot being thrown around and I didn't find any of the character arcs as satisfying as I did in books 1 and 2.

Some of the characters seemed to slip here, and the sheer amount of stuff going on made it hard to follow some threads. Overall Shallan, Dalinar, Adolin, and Jasnah had the biggest growth. 

The little tidbits throughout the book were fascinating, but the overall plot itself seemed to slump.

Aesudan had zero characterization in book one (not even a name!) and her bare bones characterization showed yes she was neglectful and caused the riots, but gave no lead to the fact she would be bonding one of the unmade! It feels like it was more of a last minute addition almost, and it was sprung so suddenly (and she only appeared in that one scene) that the whole reveal felt slightly pointless.

Odium's reveal had the biggest oomph for me, and Dalinar's story was perhaps the most interesting from a growth perspective. Yeah Shallan grew too, but Kaladin seemed to slip backwards. Renarin's plot line seemed almost thrown in at random and so when his spren was "wrong" I couldn't really do anything but scratch my head at that. There was very little lead up, and quite frankly we needed more time with Jasnah to really get a look at what was going on from her perspective.

Personally, I blame the weakness of the Kholinar arc for the failings on some parts of the book, but I'm hoping book 4 sorts much of the hanging threads out.

I feel like the reason Kaladin slipped back was that he was growing the past 2 books. For home to save the day twice and then fall into despair and failed to do it a third, in my opinion, made him more relatable the he was. He is easily my favorite fictional character ever

[evanna]

I finished the OB about two weeks ago, so the first hype is fading. I can be more rational with the final rate.
Basically I enjoyed the book. The problem is I might be saying that just because I'm already so much attached to the characters that I'm likely to be excited watching them eating their breakfast.  

Just like @EC11 said, the arcs were less interesting than in TWoK and WoR, at least for the first half of the book. Some flying, some detective stuff and some exploration - nice to read, but nothing special about them. The parts 4 and 5 were much better, just as I expected, but even then... somehow... I felt unsatisfied when I finished the book. As if it was lacking something, though I can't precise what it might have been exactly.

As for characters, Dalinar and Jasnah were at their best for me, the took such a big step forward! Kaladin on the other hand, oh my... I  was really sorry to see him that way, but I must admit that with all of that god-like aura surrounding him so often lately, he felt more like human again.  
Shallan freaked me out with that splitting. She felt like falling apart as well, but she somehow managed to hold this process, at least for now. I was surprised with her wedding, though. Yeah, there have been some preparings and mentioning it throughout the book, but it has never felt like something that might happen already in OB.
I was happy to finally have some Renarin's POV and Renarin-related scenes. I've always found him one of the greatest mysteries of TSA and OB only confirmed that we should keep an eye on him.
 

My final rate would be 7/10 though it basically hurts me. Maybe I just can't be objective with this series after all...

[Briar King]

On 12/21/2017 at 7:43 AM, stormlore said:

I have to admit I wonder what you were smoking to come to this conclusion.  Is it possible you were in a  weird frame of mind or distracted while reading this book?  I found it to be my favorite and loved where the story went.  Even if it didn't fulfill all things I wanted I recognize the genius of it.

Smoking something actually probably could have helped me with Slogbringer. I ll never know as I don’t. Wasn’t in any weird frame of mind. I just found this book boring and an epic slog to get through. Shallan’s mental issue was beat over my head way to much. The political crisis was hella boring. I have many issues on why this book was so bad. Part 5 was the only page turner for me and that was to little wayyyyy to late.

[king of nowhere]

1 hour ago, Briar King said:

Smoking something actually probably could have helped me with Slogbringer. I ll never know as I don’t. Wasn’t in any weird frame of mind. I just found this book boring and an epic slog to get through. Shallan’s mental issue was beat over my head way to much. The political crisis was hella boring. I have many issues on why this book was so bad. Part 5 was the only page turner for me and that was to little wayyyyy to late.

I liked the political intrigue and the shallan madness plots. Part 5 was way too over the top and dragonballish to me, like one of those movies where the plot is sacrificed to special effects, though it was still a page turner. goes to figure different people like different things

[Briar King]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

 goes to figure different people like different things

No doubt.

I still am in shock that I had this strong of a dislike for this book. 

[Orlion Blight he/him]

 Overall, I liked it. The slow parts were necessary to make the Voidbringer revelation believable and impactful. A lot of what you think about this book will depend on how much of a payoff you think this is. 

The book's strength is its weakness. Namely, the worldbuilding. If you love it, this book will probably be the greatest Archive book for you. It does slow down everything else, though. 

Other random thoughts: 

-Odium is essentially a more hands on version of Lord Foul the Despiser from the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. I still don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. 

-I liked the Shallan and Moash storylines. 

- The scene where Dalinar meets baby Adolin for the first time was terrible/handled badly. It seemed more like Brandon inserting himself into the story instead of Dalinar having an experience. Like for a brief moment, Dalinar was replaced by Brandon who just wanted to say, "I love my children, and you may not believe me now, but children are a blessing. " Keep that in your acknowledgment/dedications, Brandon! There are a couple other moments like this... few, but very jarring when it happens. 

 

 

[stormlore]

23 hours ago, TheOoklaThatComesBefore said:

 Overall, I liked it. The slow parts were necessary to make the Voidbringer revelation believable and impactful. A lot of what you think about this book will depend on how much of a payoff you think this is. 

The book's strength is its weakness. Namely, the worldbuilding. If you love it, this book will probably be the greatest Archive book for you. It does slow down everything else, though. 

Other random thoughts: 

-Odium is essentially a more hands on version of Lord Foul the Despiser from the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. I still don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. 

-I liked the Shallan and Moash storylines. 

- The scene where Dalinar meets baby Adolin for the first time was terrible/handled badly. It seemed more like Brandon inserting himself into the story instead of Dalinar having an experience. Like for a brief moment, Dalinar was replaced by Brandon who just wanted to say, "I love my children, and you may not believe me now, but children are a blessing. " Keep that in your acknowledgment/dedications, Brandon! There are a couple other moments like this... few, but very jarring when it happens. 

 

 

Do you have children of your own?

[Greywatch she/her]

And judging by Dalinar's reaction to meeting his second son, Renarin, which is night and day with Adolin's birth scene, I don't think this was Brandon's misstep, at all. Every time Adolin and Renarin appear in Dalinar's flashbacks, they were contrasted, and this is one of those comparisons. I don't understand your criticism at all.

[StormingTexan he/him]

On 12/26/2017 at 10:37 AM, TheOoklaThatComesBefore said:

- The scene where Dalinar meets baby Adolin for the first time was terrible/handled badly. It seemed more like Brandon inserting himself into the story instead of Dalinar having an experience. Like for a brief moment, Dalinar was replaced by Brandon who just wanted to say, "I love my children, and you may not believe me now, but children are a blessing. " Keep that in your acknowledgment/dedications, Brandon! There are a couple other moments like this... few, but very jarring when it happens. 

This is an interesting criticism to me because it did not feel out of place at all to me. The feeling the moment you meet your first child is one you will never quite experience again. Mothers form a bond with the child through the pregnancy men not so much. It was life changing for me. When I first saw and held my son I understood what it was all about and it was almost overwhelming. I thought the scene was pretty accurate of course Brandon has experienced this so that helps.

The scene that really got me in the feels though was when Renarin gave Dalinar the bottle. Wow that one made me cry. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, StormingTexan said:

This is an interesting criticism to me because it did not feel out of place at all to me. The feeling the moment you meet your first child is one you will never quite experience again. Mothers form a bond with the child through the pregnancy men not so much. It was life changing for me. When I first saw and held my son I understood what it was all about and it was almost overwhelming. I thought the scene was pretty accurate of course Brandon has experienced this so that helps.

The scene that really got me in the feels though was when Renarin gave Dalinar the bottle. Wow that one made me cry. 

I think his point is Dalinar doesn't read as if he loves Adolin much within future chapters, hence the reaction may read as out of place. If Dalinar had such an experience upon meeting Adolin, then why was he pleased to not see him for over a year? Why is he so harsh with him most of the time?

I don't think Brandon wrote a misstep, but I do think questions can realistically be asked.

[StormingTexan he/him]

10 hours ago, maxal said:

I think his point is Dalinar doesn't read as if he loves Adolin much within future chapters, hence the reaction may read as out of place. If Dalinar had such an experience upon meeting Adolin, then why was he pleased to not see him for over a year? Why is he so harsh with him most of the time?

I don't think Brandon wrote a misstep, but I do think questions can realistically be asked.

Point taken. Although I see the latter as a side effect of Odium grooming Dalinar to be his Champion. Dalinar became obsessed with conquest and nothing else was important to him including his children. For me at least this didn't take away from this very human moment of Adolin's birth. He was trying to follow Evi's advice and "live in the moment". Unfortunately right after this Gavilar's diplomacy failed and he was forced to be the Blackthorn again. 

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

Point taken. Although I see the latter as a side effect of Odium grooming Dalinar to be his Champion. Dalinar became obsessed with conquest and nothing else was important to him including his children. For me at least this didn't take away from this very human moment of Adolin's birth. He was trying to follow Evi's advice and "live in the moment". Unfortunately right after this Gavilar's diplomacy failed and he was forced to be the Blackthorn again. 

My thought are Adolin was born during the "calm" period of Dalinar's life, a period where the Blackthorn had been put to sleep. Gavilar woke him up shortly after and despite Evi's best intentions, Dalinar became this man once again, this man who lived and breathed for the warfare.

About Adolin's birth, I think the important aspect of it was Dalinar named him after "light" and considered him to be "a fresh start". A boy whom wouldn't need to be this cruel heartless dishonorable man his father was, a boy to be everything Dalinar wished he were: strong, but compassionate. Honorable. Deeply honorable. All the pressure Adolin got later on started on the say of his birth, on the day Dalinar projected everything he ever wanted to be into his newborn son.

Renarin was unfortunate enough to be born at a time where Dalinar was the Blackthorn, hence Dalinar didn't care. The Blackthorn was heartless, the Blackthorn did not love.

[StormingTexan he/him]

@maxalthats exactly how I see it. We will have to agree to aggre. 

I was just found the criticism about the scene interesting because I in no way saw it as Brandon inserting himself but one of the rare calm (as You eloquently put it) before the storm moments for Dalinar. It was nice to see Dalinar as human instead of the animal he perceives himself as. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by StormingTexan

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, StormingTexan said:

@maxalthats exactly how I see it. We will have to agree to aggre. 

I was just found the criticism about the scene interesting because I in no way saw it as Brandon inserting himself but one of the rare calm (as You eloquently put it) before the storm moments for Dalinar. It was nice to see Dalinar as human instead of the animal he perceives himself as. 

I also didn't think Brandon was inserting himself. I thought the scene showed one side of Dalinar's character: the calmer side of Dalinar. The man he could have perhaps been had he not been pushed, shaped, distorted into becoming a mere weapon of mass destruction by both his brother and the Thrill. I think the saddest part of Dalinar's story is how he was manipulated into becoming a monster, how this energy he had was channelized into very negative ways by a brother only yearning to utilize it for his own personal ends.

It also hurts to see Dalinar do the same with his own son.

Had Gavilar not asked of Dalinar to become a beast again, he might have nurtured enough of his "human side" to put the beast into dormancy without needing a lobotomy to achieve it. He might even have come to love Evi.

[DrakeMarshall he/him]

Well, I finally got around to finishing OB.

Most excellent.

[Fatling he/him]

Finished OB a few days ago. Mixed feelings. Dalinar’s flashback scenes were good. Never really loved Shallan to begin with, and she didn’t really grow on me at all in this book, it was mostly like she just became less and less relatable. Wish there was more Szeth in this book, I liked his parts, and also Venli. I was amused that Renarin turned out to be a bad guy. Shadesmar was kind of boring. I was also greatly pleased that Adolin didn’t gain any powers. Seemed like everyone was making a huge deal about the everstorm in WoR, but it was rather underwhelming. Was hoping for more interesting interludes. None of them really stuck out to me except Rysn. I guess the one with Mem was good too. Sorry if the thoughts seem kind of scattered. If I were to rate it I would say 6.5/10

[Silence]

I LOVED this book. There are so many parts that absolutely destroyed me emotionally - in the best way possible lol. 

Minor idea/theory thingy....I think Vasher went to the Nightwatcher and that's how he and Nightblood got separated. Has anyone else thought this? Anyone agree/disagree? 

Anywhooo...the only other thing I have to say besides HOLY COW I LOVED THIS BOOK is that I sincerely appreciate Rysn's character as someone who is paralyzed and lives life in a wheelchair like myself. He portrays her so beautifully and I love seeing people like me represented in a series I love so much. Thank you Brandon!! And I hope to see more of her in the future <3

Edited January 9, 2018 by Silence

[StormingTexan he/him]

6 minutes ago, Silence said:

Minor idea/theory thingy....I think Vasher went to the Nightwatcher and that's how he and Nightblood got separated. Has anyone else thought this? Anyone agree/disagree? 

Only thing I'd say about this is Felt says she doesn't like foreigners which he means world hoppers. 

[Silence]

1 minute ago, StormingTexan said:

Only thing I'd say about this is Felt says she doesn't like foreigners which he means world hoppers. 

Ahh yes, that's right! So probably not lol. I got all excited when the Nightwatcher says she could give Dalinar a sword that sounded very much like Nightblood, but I guess she could obtain it by other means?

[Bort he/him]

On 12/16/2017 at 9:16 PM, Wit Beyond Measure said:

Thanks!  Where is the Willshaper spren described? 

There were only three bondsmiths last time according to the Honorspren captain (Page 1017, Kindle).  There were hundreds of Windrunners and Stonewards. There seem to be hundreds of Skybreakers.  I seem to recall that the number of members per order varies greatly depending on the order, but I couldn't find that reference yet.

I have always thought that there would be one critical Knight Radiant from each order who was loyal to Dalinar and key to the plot, which was confirmed when Dalinar said that there were seven (plus Ash and Taln) when there should be ten of them at the big final showdown.

I don't see how Ash and Shallan can count separately, though.  And I'm not sure Taln counts.  So I'm expecting one to three more.

ETA:  I adore how we get many "Ash's eyes!" and "Taln's palms!" and finally get to see these seemingly random curses tying in.

Ooo, I love that idea!

There were ten of them at the big, final showdown, including Taln and Ash. Venli bonded Timbre during the battle. She was the tenth.

[Ammanas]

There is a pretty well known Science Fiction/ Fantasy blogger that gave a long review on Oathbringer. I believe it is fair, but lists several positives and negatives. Here is the link:

http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2018/01/oathbringer-by-brandon-sanderson.html?m=1

Edited January 28, 2018 by Ammanas

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, Ammanas said:

There is a pretty well known Science Fiction/ Fantasy blogger that gave a long review on Oathbringer. I believe it is fair, but lists several positives and negatives. Here is the link:

http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2018/01/oathbringer-by-brandon-sanderson.html?m=1

This was a great review. I agree with everything being said in it. I definitely agree the story is going into too many various directions, it looses focus and, at the same time, it wastes time within repetitive story arcs. For my part, I think Brandon fail prey to wanting his world to grow too fast, so he punched in too many world-building elements while forcing down his book structure which implies Dalinar HAD to get the most viewpoints, even if several of them were repetitive and not needed. The end result is, for me, the story lost track on the elements which made some readers love it in the first place mainly character development and inter-action instead focusing on either world-building or inner trauma for a handful of characters. In other words, Brandon wants the story to get too big too fast and it harms the characters when he does so.

Oathbringer is not a bad book, but it is not a great book either. It is a book which should serve to have the author re-positioned himself for book 4.