Controversial Opinions

[Pagliacci he/him]

1 hour ago, Elegy said:

In my opinion, Edgar Wright's Cornetto trilogy for instance is amazing - not because the films are deep, but because they, as I see it, are extremely good at being funny

That, my friend, is the real controversial opinion in this discussion. There's quite a lot of depth in the Cornetto Trilogy.

@Elegy, @Eluvianii in regards to the topic of enjoying bad art I'd be curious to know what your thoughts are on 'escapist' fiction and whether that can be considered 'good' and/or enjoyable.

I'd say there's a difference between being elitist and just having standards. Elitism would be dismissing comics as a medium (Which in my experience is only really done by people who have never actually read a comic). But I wouldn't consider it elitism to say I don't enjoy Liefeld's Youngblood series and would rather read something by Jeff Lemire instead.

As Elegy touched upon the acceptance of mediocrity bequeaths greater mediocrity, such is the nature of the capitalist system under which we live. This whole discussion touches upon so many fascinating questions. Does art need to have value? What makes art good? What is bad art? 

[Ixthos he/him]

The main point I think we can all agree on is this: when you watch or read something, do you regret having watched it or read it, or don't you? Did it add something to you and your life? Did it make you feel an emotion (... other than strangling the author :-P I mean an emotion they wanted you to feel ... unless it was to strangle them ... :-P ), or make you question something, or give you an insight?

 

If what you watch or read touched you positively, in any form of positivity, rather than made you feel you wasted your time, or your time would have been better spent, then that is something worth watching or reading. Deep or shallow, crude or refined, if in the end you are enriched it was worth it.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

Oh, this is real controversial. GoT season 8 was okay, and had some stuff that was really good. Theons ending, Beric Dondarrion, Eurons end, Bronns scenes, the lead up to the Battle of Winterfell, Jorahs ending and certain dialogue scenes were all really good. 

Oh, and Into the Spider-Verse is good but overrated. Far From Home was much better. 

Also, Palpitoad is the best Pokemon and Charizard is boring.

[Elegy he/him]

We could probably make a whole thread about unpopular Star Wars opinions. Everyone has at the very least one of them.

10 hours ago, Pagliacci said:

That, my friend, is the real controversial opinion in this discussion. There's quite a lot of depth in the Cornetto Trilogy.

I didn't really mean that they don't have any depth (they have some in character and themes), but rather that I don't enjoy them because of the depth. They don't depend on being deep art movies like, say, films by Krzyisztof Kieslowski or Paul Thomas Anderson. It's a bonus, not the thing itself. Regarding the question you asked after that, escapist art is meant to take you on a journey, and if it does a good job at that, it leaves you at least a little bit different than before. So yes. Also, high fantasy is, in a way, espacism by definition, but it can have depth and it can lack depth and can still be worthwhile experiencing and enjoying. That said, as much as I love some discussion about art, I'll refrain from continuing this one since this is not a "art philosophy" thread and I don't want to derail it too much.

[Eluvianii he/him]

19 hours ago, Elegy said:

I don't think we disagree quite as much as you make it sound: If something makes you laugh a couple of hours (even without having a huge impact on your life), then that's an outstanding quality in itself. In my opinion, Edgar Wright's Cornetto trilogy for instance is amazing - not because the films are deep, but because they, as I see it, are extremely good at being funny. In that way, they're outstanding to me. The standards I meant are by no means the difference between "deep and impactful" and "not deep and impactful", but between "it was really good at something" (for example being funny) and "it was kiiinda good enough to make me keep watching it". To make people laugh for several hours is a huge achievement in my opinion, and comedy and entertainment is an art that's often underrated. So good entertainment definitely fulfills the standards that I meant.

Film, music, literature (which is my field of study), visual arts (photography, painting and drawing, but the former less than the latter), comics (mostly manga, but not exclusively), and theatre (mostly stage musicals). I play video games regularly, but I'm not deep enough in the scene to add it as no. 7. Of these, I make music and write books myself (nothing released though), and I'd love to make short films, but the logistics are too demanding, sadly. Since we're here, I'm pretty sure we agree about Sanderson being an amazing writer, so there's that at the very least. 

Well, judging by the list you put below, you may be right that we disagree less than it sounded like, I just went for the first impression. In my case I plan to (still studying so haven't really started yet) weave my life project around video games, music and literature because the first comes with the other two the way I see it.

18 hours ago, Pagliacci said:

in regards to the topic of enjoying bad art I'd be curious to know what your thoughts are on 'escapist' fiction and whether that can be considered 'good' and/or enjoyable.

A few years ago I would have said that it's good because it lets you escape from reality. Now I believe it's good because you can learn from it to improve your own reality. It doesn't matter how irreal something may be, it has some base on the real world so there's always something you can get out from it.

Also I'd like to apologize for using the word 'elitism', it was the best I could think of at the time but I think 'picky' would fit better for what I meant.

And I'll stop here, I wanted to reply so here it is but this thread has been derailed enough.

[Hood he/him]

Some (maybe all) might be quite common.

1. I find F.R.I.E.N.D.S. to be incredibly over-rated, one of the most over-rated series till date, not at all realistic, and people are just coming in and out of doors all the time. There are many great comedy series like Yes, Minister and its sequel Yes, Prime Minister, which I consider the best comedy series ever created.

2. Point 1 can be said for superhero movies, esp. MCU. Endgame was the dictionary definition of average, and a lesson in how sequels ought not to be made. Though The Dark Knight trilogy certainly lives up to its fame.

3. Modern Anime is stupid. Searching for a good anime nowadays is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Fanservice has ruined everything.

4. Mistborn era 2 books are average (opinion as of present). Not best, not worst, but average. I prefer Elantris to them.

5. Ursula K Le Guin >>> Tolkien.

6. Bottled water should be banned. It is a necessity and the govt. should provide it. They're literally making us pay for something that falls from the sky(rain after the first few showers) or comes from ground (wells) ( I believe there's some quote in one of Sanderson's books, Shadows of Self maybe)

[The Kraken's Daughter]

On 9/7/2019 at 0:37 PM, Toaster Retribution said:

Oh, this is real controversial. GoT season 8 was okay, and had some stuff that was really good. Theons ending, Beric Dondarrion, Eurons end, Bronns scenes, the lead up to the Battle of Winterfell, Jorahs ending and certain dialogue scenes were all really good. 

 

There were some things in Season 8 that were really good. Brienne's knighting was wonderful, I agree with you about Jorah's ending, Cleganebowl was great, and the acting and cinematography remained excellent throughout.

[Rask]

I liked neither Harry Potter nor Hitchhiker's guide.

Hitchhiker was to dark for me, usually I'm down for gallows humor but exploding the earth and then playing it off as a joke was just a little bit much. 

I used to like Harry Potter as a kid back before I read book five, but the last three books just felt so self indulgent and whiney. 

As for unusual likes, Ariana Grande and the John Carter movie. Also the Chronicles of Narnia are not C. S. Lewis's best work, both the Screwtape Letters and Perelandra are better in my humble opinion. 

[Guest]

Personally, I really do not like Game of Thrones at all.  I feel it's insistence on grimdark edginess and it's use of the F words and disgusting sex scenes/nudity just really puts me off, and I am not even prudish.  I'lll stick with Sanderson, even though he does not have any lgbt protagonist main characters.  (not saying he should be forced to, mind you.)

also, I'm so controversal, that a user here made an alt account a year ago, just to harrass me over my persuasion.

[Yvainnie she/her]

6 hours ago, Enoshima Junko said:

Personally, I really do not like Game of Thrones at all.  I feel it's insistence on grimdark edginess and it's use of the F words and disgusting sex scenes/nudity just really puts me off, and I am not even prudish.  I'lll stick with Sanderson, even though he does not have any lgbt protagonist main characters.  (not saying he should be forced to, mind you.)

also, I'm so controversal, that a user here made an alt account a year ago, just to harrass me over my persuasion.

Wow, which one? so sorry to hear that, honey.

And I am totally with on Game of Thrones. Well, I kind of liked series or I liked some of the characters (mainly animals, you know dragons and wolfs) and I wanted to know how it will end up but books...I kind of like the first one but I got several problems. They all fell unnecessarily dragged on as if someone know how it ends but just don't want to tell you for the fun of it, like unnecessary delay and unnecessary character and even though Sanderson has way less characters, his books actually feel much richer. Do I make any sense?

Also, I don't min violence but sometimes GoT feels like it is added just for the sake of being shocking regardless of actually story.

[Honorless he/him]

Well, Dumbledore being gay never threw me off. Apparently that was seen as very controversial, judging by the sheer amount of memes.

[Yvainnie she/her]

12 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Well, Dumbledore being gay never threw me off. Apparently that was seen as very controversial, judging by the sheer amount of memes.

me neither, I don't understand why anybody would be upset with it?

 

 

And I got one.

I hate Lift. But I love Stormlight books and I cried several times during Oathbringer (I am unity).

Edited November 7, 2019 by Yvainnie

[Lunu’anaki he/him]

I don't like Wheel of Time.

Star Wars Episode 8 was awesome and so was the Han Solo movie.

GoT ending didn't ruin the series. (I wasn't blown away by it and it had problems, but the show isn't dead because of it)

Bojack Horseman is a bad show.

Night Angel was better than Lightbringer

Warbreaker is one of the best Brandon Sanderson Novels.

[Yvainnie she/her]

6 minutes ago, Lunu’anaki said:

I don't like Wheel of Time.

Star Wars Episode 8 was awesome and so was the Han Solo movie.

GoT ending didn't ruin the series. (I wasn't blown away by it and it had problems, but the show isn't dead because of it)

Bojack Horseman is a bad show.

Night Angel was better than Lightbringer

Warbreaker is one of the best Brandon Sanderson Novels.

Totally agree on Star Wars and Solo movie! 

And GoT! Even if it was sad, I was rooting for Dany and Jon but I knew it wasn't meant to be.

And I love Warbreaker. I didn't know it was controversial.

 

[overlord stick]

I want Portal 3 more than Half-Life 3.

I agree Warbreaker is one of the best Brandon novels, probably my favorite (currently,) Standalone.

Elantris is Brandon's worst work. It's not bad, just his worst.

I like season 8 and 9 of the office.

Furret is the best pokemon. (Oh wait, that's not a opinion)

[Lunu’anaki he/him]

1 hour ago, Yvainnie said:

Totally agree on Star Wars and Solo movie! 

And GoT! Even if it was sad, I was rooting for Dany and Jon but I knew it wasn't meant to be.

And I love Warbreaker. I didn't know it was controversial.

 

On Warbreaker: From what I understand it's not that people don't like it but they see a lot of problems with it because its structured strangely. I tend to disagree. It's a really well put together and I think the story works really well in it's current structure.

[Yvainnie she/her]

4 minutes ago, Lunu’anaki said:

On Warbreaker: From what I understand it's not that people don't like it but they see a lot of problems with it because its structured strangely. I tend to disagree. It's a really well put together and I think the story works really well in it's current structure.

Well even if there are problems and structure is not perfect (though I did enjoy reading and did not notice any particulary big problems), the idea is very unique. And more so, the way all that color stuff work is very deep. I think there was ton of work behind all this. 

[Lunu’anaki he/him]

1 hour ago, Yvainnie said:

Well even if there are problems and structure is not perfect (though I did enjoy reading and did not notice any particulary big problems), the idea is very unique. And more so, the way all that color stuff work is very deep. I think there was ton of work behind all this. 

I completely agree 

[Use the Falchion]

Speaking of Star Wars, I LOATH Reylo. As in, it makes my skin crawl. As in, if it happens, I will really have issues with Star Wars. I don't need FinnRey to happen (although I do like it (but I also really like Rose...)), but I really, REALLY don't want Reylo to happen. Just thinking about it...ugh...

 

As to why this is...it stems from three places. The first is JJ's comments in TFA about comparing the ideology and methodology of the F.O. to neo-nazi's. And that stuck with me, so now Kylo has that association going on with him.

Secondly is the hard binary nature that TLJ made. In TFA, I saw shades of all the characters in each other, and the aspects of the bond were completely different: Kylo saw a younger version of himself in Rey ("You see Han as the father you never had. He would have disappointed you." "You need a teacher!"), interested in taking her on as a mentor-mentee type of role.* In Finn, Kylo projected out his own hate** (calling the Resistance "liars, murderers, and thieves" despite the F.O. being exactly that. "TRAITOR!"). In Poe, Kylo could have had a Cain and Abel sort of relationship. The prodigal son versus the one who carries the legacy - two ace pilots. 

Hux had his rivalry with Kylo, as well as being a dark mirror for Poe. 

Finn saw who he could become in Poe, as well as a friend; in Phasma Finn found out how weak the F.O. truly was. And in Rey, he found a kindred spirit. 

Rey had obvious parallels with Kylo, but I saw those as superficial at best. Rey was no longer lonely because she had people who came back for her and cared for her. She wasn't too worried about her family at the moment because she accepted they weren't coming back, but she could bring Luke back.

Kylo was no longer just a victim, because the choice he made on SKB was entirely his own. 

But then TLJ came in and focused exclusively on Rey and Kylo, to the point of detriment to most other characters. Kylo lost every similarity and parallel he had in Finn and Poe. Rey decided to trust the guy whose first action upon their merging of minds was to try to Force compel her into bringing Luke back. (Thankfully she shot him in response). But to trust him...I guess I'll never see it. 

 

The third thing is that as I saw it, their arc really ended in TLJ. They had a bond and Rey ended it. The end. Move on. Kylo doesn't make Rey a better person, and Rey can't make Kylo into anything he doesn't want to be. So stop trying.

Also, Kylo's "you're nothing, but not to me" doesn't stand because FINN PROVED SHE MATTERED TO HIM BY DEVISING A PLAN TO BREAK INTO STARKILLER BASE JUST TO SAVE HER. Also enforced by Poe knowing who Rey was at the end of TLJ. But still. 

 

TL;DR - Reylo reads to me like an edgy, unhealthy romance (there's manipulation, threatening, forcing, at least SOME emotional abuse), not a redemption story. Kylo doesn't need love to change him, because it didn't work before. Rey doesn't need someone who understands her (although Finn probably does. He just doesn't understand The Force), she needs someone who can trust her, and she can trust back. Like Vin and Elend. 

 

*Which echoes two the three primary male relationships Rey has in TFA. Han is a mentor. Kylo wants to be a mentor. Finn, on the other hand, doesn't need or want to mentor Rey. He just wants her.

**And I always found it suspicious about how Kylo knew exactly which trooper Finn was. It either came down to Kylo knowing most of the troopers or Kylo knowing something was up with Finn. The latter was far more interesting to me. 

[SingingMosaic]

I just don't like Harry Potter. I loved it when I started reading it, I was seven and everything up to book four came out. But I mean, I was seven. It definitely did not grow with me. I'm not a fan of J.K. Rowling, her writing is OK I suppose, and the way she treats people is ugg, Lumos is like the one good thing she did for the world and I have no idea how involved she actually is in it.

I liked all of the Matrix.

Cotton candy is gross, and marshmallows are not good unless they are in something/something is in them. I'm not sure if that's a controversial opinion, but so many people I've told that to look at me like I kicked a puppy when I say it.

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

They should add more Fire Emblem characters to Smash. Like, actual characters, not the player-insert protagonist. Give me Anna, Edelgard, Xander, Hubert, Basilio, Shamir, Frederick, Ryoma, etc. 

I honestly dont want multiverses to be a big thing in the MCU. 

The 100 is one of the best tv-series ever made.

[Use the Falchion]

1 hour ago, Toaster Retribution said:

The 100 is one of the best tv-series ever made.

I love the show, but my friend in med school would have choice words for this lol! I do think it's the closest we'll get to a Battlestar Galactica sequel in a lot of ways. 

 

[Jaywalk he/him]

5 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

They should add more Fire Emblem characters to Smash. Like, actual characters, not the player-insert protagonist. Give me Anna, Edelgard, Xander, Hubert, Basilio, Shamir, Frederick, Ryoma, etc. 

Amen to that. There’s plenty of Fire Emblem characters who aren’t generic sword characters (we really didn’t need Chrom, honestly).

[Condensation she/her]

Bacon is gross.

Jeans are weird.

Grammar is amazing.

[Truthless of Shinovar he/him]

8 hours ago, Jaywalk said:

Amen to that. There’s plenty of Fire Emblem characters who aren’t generic sword characters (we really didn’t need Chrom, honestly).

Or Lucina for that matter