[OB] Oathbringer chapters 10-12

[Elena]

@maxal I dont understand how Dalinar's powers were crippled though? He has authority over Urituh and what goes on in it. He has authority on all the Alethi and Highprinces (and Adolin) within his city. He has authority over matters of Radiants and Desolations and contacting Roshar monarchs. He simply no longer has authority over the Kholin lands in Alethkar, and all that comes with it. He is still a deeply respected, influential figure.

Also I don't see why Elhokar, the king, is not necessary the best person to defend Kholinar - it's his capital and seat, and it's about time he tried to actually do something. He even said he'd asked for Kaladin to come along specifically so that the city could still be saved even if he himself were to fail.

I did not see Highprince Adolin coming (I mean not this soon, I'm still thinking Dalinar won't make it to the end of OB) and I understand some people might really dislike the idea, but I don't think that by itself it's necessarily a bad sign. BUT let's all remember that actually the succession is not a done deal yet. Maybe something happens next chapter and everything goes up in smoke

[maxal]

1 hour ago, Elena said:

@maxal I dont understand how Dalinar's powers were crippled though? He has authority over Urituh and what goes on in it. He has authority on all the Alethi and Highprinces (and Adolin) within his city. He has authority over matters of Radiants and Desolations and contacting Roshar monarchs. He simply no longer has authority over the Kholin lands in Alethkar, and all that comes with it. He is still a deeply respected, influential figure.

Also I don't see why Elhokar, the king, is not necessary the best person to defend Kholinar - it's his capital and seat, and it's about time he tried to actually do something. He even said he'd asked for Kaladin to come along specifically so that the city could still be saved even if he himself were to fail.

I did not see Highprince Adolin coming (I mean not this soon, I'm still thinking Dalinar won't make it to the end of OB) and I understand some people might really dislike the idea, but I don't think that by itself it's necessarily a bad sign. BUT let's all remember that actually the succession is not a done deal yet. Maybe something happens next chapter and everything goes up in smoke

He has to pass through Elhokar. He agreed Elhokar had the right to revise his orders and to apply them as he sees fit. He does not command the armies anymore so while he is allowed to reach out to foreign nations without Elhokar interfering, he has given up all claims he had to exercise leadership in Alethkar. All orders he gives could be bypassed by Elhokar.

Elhokar is not the best person because he doesn't have any military training, he never held field command, he never led armies. Just because he is the king does not make him the right person. He doesn't know what he is doing, most of the time, and now he is in charge of quelling a rebellion. Bringing Kaladin along is great and everything, but he is only one man who, while having battle experience, never held any strategical position. He might not be the best person to lead a siege to a city he doesn't even know. If Elhokar wanted to free the city, then he should have brought with him someone who actually knows what he is doing in terms of leading armies. 

Adolin, on the other hand, has held field command. He has his own men. He is respected by them. He knows how to lead large scale battles. He knows the city. He is, by far, a much better choice than Elhokar. And he is currently being wasted in Urithiru doing a great big nothing important nor significant.

The reason some readers dislike the idea of "Highprince Adolin" is some of us feel it is terribly restrictive. It forces Adolin's character to deal with politics, scheming and bureaucracy when his character would be more interesting if swung in other directions. Also, we all know Adolin will be a good Highprince: there is no growth to be had for his character in having him move up to this position. So while it perhaps makes sense for Dalinar to make the move, it is terrible for Adolin's character development. To make a long story short: it is unbelievably boring. So yeah, I do hope something will happen because if Brandon wanted to steer Adolin's character into a boring static story arc where he fades into the background, then this is it.

[hypatia]

Hasn't Elhokar the perfect job offer for the new 'Highprince Adolin'?

The 'Highprince of War' isn't also occupied with Dalinar in retirement and I think Adolin would make a good figure with this.

[iamstick]

6 hours ago, Darvys said:

Drawback of weekly theorizing, sometimes consistancy and logic suffer in the wild speculations about the limited content.But we do get a few gems now and again, so it's still worth it.

I sort of want to continue the bunched chapter readings even after OB is released because the wild speculation about the limited content has been amazing. I love these conversations.

(However, I know myself well enough though that I'll be reading the whole thing release night.)

[Arondell]

2 hours ago, maxal said:

The reason some readers dislike the idea of "Highprince Adolin" is some of us feel it is terribly restrictive. It forces Adolin's character to deal with politics, scheming and bureaucracy when his character would be more interesting if swung in other directions. Also, we all know Adolin will be a good Highprince: there is no growth to be had for his character in having him move up to this position. So while it perhaps makes sense for Dalinar to make the move, it is terrible for Adolin's character development. To make a long story short: it is unbelievably boring. So yeah, I do hope something will happen because if Brandon wanted to steer Adolin's character into a boring static story arc where he fades into the background, then this is it.

I kind of had the impression that Adolin was a supporting character.  Mr. Sanderson has used him as a kind of catalyst to push the main characters to deal with new situations.  A bit like Elhokar, also supporting, has just created a new situation for Dalinar to deal with.   As such it isn't all that bad a thing as a supporting character if Adolin took up ruling the princedom since it would free up Dalinar, a main character, to deal with the bigger issues.   On the meta level I don't really think he is there to generate his own great story arc but to make the primary characters story arc more interesting.  Not that he can't have a great story arc it just doesn't seem, to me, like it is the purpose of the character.

 

[maxal]

2 hours ago, hypatia said:

Hasn't Elhokar the perfect job offer for the new 'Highprince Adolin'?

The 'Highprince of War' isn't also occupied with Dalinar in retirement and I think Adolin would make a good figure with this.

Honestly, I find this is about the most boring development for Adolin's character. Giving the most predictable boring job he was trained all his life to occupy really was my worst-case scenario for his character. No growth, no change, no cataclysm, no nothing: just boring continuity and a bureaucratic job where he'll jungle through reports and politics, like Dalinar.

2 minutes ago, Arondell said:

I kind of had the impression that Adolin was a supporting character.  Mr. Sanderson has used him as a kind of catalyst to push the main characters to deal with new situations.  A bit like Elhokar, also supporting, has just created a new situation for Dalinar to deal with.   As such it isn't all that bad a thing as a supporting character if Adolin took up ruling the princedom since it would free up Dalinar, a main character, to deal with the bigger issues.   On the meta level I don't really think he is there to generate his own great story arc but to make the primary characters story arc more interesting.  Not that he can't have a great story arc it just doesn't seem, to me, like it is the purpose of the character.

 

He has viewpoints... In my eyes, any character with viewpoints is more than a supporting character. Renarin is a supporting character, Elhokar is a supporting character, but Adolin has viewpoints and a dedicated story arc it makes him more than a supporting character. It makes one of the major viewpoint characters.

Obviously how much page time Adolin's character ought to have is something readers have disagreed upon for years. Some like yourself feel he doesn't deserve his own story arc and consider him a minor supporting character on the same level as Elhokar. I tend to disagree. I find the character has a purpose within the story which is other than supplementing other characters arc. If such was his role back in WoK, I didn't feel this was the purpose of the character in WoR. I do not feel this is the purpose of the character within OB. Even if it were, interesting story arcs are always preferable to boring ones, even for supporting characters. Readers are currently excited over Elhokar, a very minor character serving little purpose so far, getting an arc. I thus fail why Adolin ought to get nothing: he is much more prominent and important than Elhokar within the current narrative.

Thus the Highprince story arc does come across as the most boring move the author could make. We already have Dalinar to act as a politician, we did not need Adolin to do the same and if it works well to have Dalinar grow, I think it would hinder Adolin's character more than help him.

[Hischier]

44 minutes ago, Arondell said:

I kind of had the impression that Adolin was a supporting character.  Mr. Sanderson has used him as a kind of catalyst to push the main characters to deal with new situations.  A bit like Elhokar, also supporting, has just created a new situation for Dalinar to deal with.   As such it isn't all that bad a thing as a supporting character if Adolin took up ruling the princedom since it would free up Dalinar, a main character, to deal with the bigger issues.   On the meta level I don't really think he is there to generate his own great story arc but to make the primary characters story arc more interesting.  Not that he can't have a great story arc it just doesn't seem, to me, like it is the purpose of the character.

 

Yeah I think there's a WoB on this. Adolin was created originally so we could get an outside but up close perspective on what Dalinar was going through while everyone thought he was going insane due to the visions and his personality changes. I'm not sure I agree that Adolin becoming a high prince will definitely cause his arc to remain static (it's not like Alethkar is stable after all), and regardless he's too connected to the main characters to not be involved in the action.  More importantly though, this is why I think regardless of the consequences for Adolin himself for Sadeas's murder, there will be significant repercussions for Dalinar and (depending on how it plays out) potentially Shallan as well.  

[Siaun Sanche]

I agree that Elhokar was trying to take some power for himself, but I don't see how his new role could be used as a weapon against Dalinar. Elhokar made a big commitment to Dalinar and one that basically only makes sense if Dalinar _is_ the one responsible for uniting Roshar. Elhokar looks like a fool or a weakling if he's wrong about that, or if he tries to back off from his commitment later.

Besides, if all Elhokar wanted to do was go back to Kholinar and take his seat again, couldn't he just do that? If he orders a small force to return to open the Oathgate, is Dalinar going to say no?

[maxal]

11 minutes ago, Harry the Heir said:

I agree that Elhokar was trying to take some power for himself, but I don't see how his new role could be used as a weapon against Dalinar. Elhokar made a big commitment to Dalinar and one that basically only makes sense if Dalinar _is_ the one responsible for uniting Roshar. Elhokar looks like a fool or a weakling if he's wrong about that, or if he tries to back off from his commitment later.

Besides, if all Elhokar wanted to do was go back to Kholinar and take his seat again, couldn't he just do that? If he orders a small force to return to open the Oathgate, is Dalinar going to say no?

It could be used as a weapon because Elhokar granted him the right to apply Dalinar's orders as he sees fit: I see huge wiggle room involved within this plan. And Dalinar swore he would obliged by the new rules... It might not seem like much, but having Elhokar control Alethkar and having the freedom to do what he wishes with Dalinar's order is gigantic. It could come and bite back Dalinar and I hope it will.

He could have gone back any time he wished, but Dalinar would have likely try to dissuade him. Now, the way he presented it, Dalinar could not say no. It was a bad move: nothing good will come out of it.

[Siaun Sanche]

2 hours ago, maxal said:

It could be used as a weapon because Elhokar granted him the right to apply Dalinar's orders as he sees fit: I see huge wiggle room involved within this plan. And Dalinar swore he would obliged by the new rules... It might not seem like much, but having Elhokar control Alethkar and having the freedom to do what he wishes with Dalinar's order is gigantic. It could come and bite back Dalinar and I hope it will.

I guess what I mean is, Elhokar could make some mischief if he had a mind but if he undermines Dalinar he's undermining himself as well. Doesn't mean that he won't do it, just that it would be self-defeating.

[Darvys]

This really doesn't change much for Dalinar, he could not remain highprince in good conscience, he can't afford to prioritize his own people anymore or spare the time to answer their needs and oversee the princedom, Adolin was bound to take over the moment they set foot in the tower. This won't necessarily cripple his developpement, the time for internal Alethi politics is over, we'll have some drama about Sadeas's murder and the succession then we'll move on to bigger things. Besides the princedoms pretty much run themselves, Adolin won't be required to stay away from all the action, he'll remain in charge of the Alethi forces.

 As for Elhokar taking a step to wrest back some control over his own kingdom, it was long overdue, the way Dalinar is behaving, you'd think the Alethi armies  were sworn to protect Roshar, running around from oathgate to oathgate while their homes lay ruined. Dalinar still needs to figure out what his role is, and how this war will have to be fought. Someone needs to speak for the Alethi when everyone is thinking of somehow saving the whole world, and it looks like that's going to be their king, fitting huh ?

I also don't get all the suspicion towards Elhokar, what did he even say to warrant all of this ? that people should figure out what they want and seize it ? That's basic common sense, and we know since WoR what it is Elhokar wants, to be a hero, to be seen as a great king. And right now he got it in his head that ending the  riots in the capital will get him closer to that goal. How you see duplicity and evil in this, i just don't know.

[Siaun Sanche]

26 minutes ago, Darvys said:

This really doesn't change much for Dalinar, he could not remain highprince in good conscience, he can't afford to prioritize his own people anymore or spare the time to answer their needs and oversee the princedom, Adolin was bound to take over the moment they set foot in the tower. ... Besides the princedoms pretty much run themselves, Adolin won't be required to stay away from all the action, he'll remain in charge of the Alethi forces.

Those two sentences contradict each other. If the princedoms pretty much run themselves, then why would Adolin need to take over?

[Darvys]

5 minutes ago, Harry the Heir said:

Those two sentences contradict each other. If the princedoms pretty much run themselves, then why would Adolin need to take over?

pretty much, not entirely, someone needs to make big decisions and give guidelines, someone who isn't sworn to care for the whole world, so as to avoid conflicts of interest.

[Siaun Sanche]

Just now, Darvys said:

pretty much, not entirely, someone needs to make big decisions and give guidelines, someone who isn't sworn to care for the whole world, so as to avoid conflicts of interest.

When did we ever see Dalinar making big decisions for his lands back in Alethkar before now?

[Darvys]

1 minute ago, Harry the Heir said:

When did we ever see Dalinar making big decisions for his lands back in Alethkar before now?

When did a storm ever blow from the west, ravaging every village and field in its way before now ? i'd guess highprinces will have to earn their wages in the coming weeks.

[Siaun Sanche]

6 minutes ago, Darvys said:

When did a storm ever blow from the west, ravaging every village and field in its way before now ? i'd guess highprinces will have to earn their wages in the coming weeks.

If it's an emergency wouldn't Adolin be required to leave Urithiru and return to his lands, then?

[maxal]

5 minutes ago, Harry the Heir said:

If it's an emergency wouldn't Adolin be required to leave Urithiru and return to his lands, then?

Yes. This. Precisely. If their lands in Alethkar were being jeopardized, if the focus was to be on their people, had Dalinar want it this way, then what is Adolin doing wasting his time in Urithity? What is Adolin doing overseeing wagon downloads, exploring a city and training troops? Why is he doing work anyone else could accomplish?  Why is Dalinar wasting Adolin away in Urithiru?

1 hour ago, Darvys said:

This really doesn't change much for Dalinar, he could not remain highprince in good conscience, he can't afford to prioritize his own people anymore or spare the time to answer their needs and oversee the princedom, Adolin was bound to take over the moment they set foot in the tower. This won't necessarily cripple his developpement, the time for internal Alethi politics is over, we'll have some drama about Sadeas's murder and the succession then we'll move on to bigger things. Besides the princedoms pretty much run themselves, Adolin won't be required to stay away from all the action, he'll remain in charge of the Alethi forces.

The princedom do not rule themselves on their own. Adolin as a Highprince would have to deal with a great deal lot more politic than action. It means endless boring meetings, discussions and political games which are fine when Dalinar tries to do them, but would be wasting Adolin's character, IMHO.

Nothing says Dalinar could not remain Highprince: nobody ever expressed the need for him to step down. Readers thought he ought to, but in-world nobody does. What Elhokar did is remove Dalinar from the one power seat he actually had.

1 hour ago, Darvys said:

 As for Elhokar taking a step to wrest back some control over his own kingdom, it was long overdue, the way Dalinar is behaving, you'd think the Alethi armies  were sworn to protect Roshar, running around from oathgate to oathgate while their homes lay ruined. Dalinar still needs to figure out what his role is, and how this war will have to be fought. Someone needs to speak for the Alethi when everyone is thinking of somehow saving the whole world, and it looks like that's going to be their king, fitting huh ?

Elhokar is unable to take command of anything so why is it he ought to take the command out of Kholinar? He can't take decisions, he can't lead troops and he doesn't have the experience to do so, so in which name should he be the one to go? Because he is the king and he fancies people would acclaim him if he did? Things may turn out differently as the rebellion, it is against him, not for him. The people won't be pleased to see him. Elhokar will never be a leader of people nor a king: it is not his fault, some people just aren't made to lead. He needs to accept this and stop trying at being a leader.

1 hour ago, Darvys said:

I also don't get all the suspicion towards Elhokar, what did he even say to warrant all of this ? that people should figure out what they want and seize it ? That's basic common sense, and we know since WoR what it is Elhokar wants, to be a hero, to be seen as a great king. And right now he got it in his head that ending the  riots in the capital will get him closer to that goal. How you see duplicity and evil in this, i just don't know.

Because Elhokar has been a manipulative liar? Because Dalinar has been incredibly unreliable when it comes to Elhokar, always seeing the best in him even when he was trying to undermine him? Why do people even believe he is genuine? Elhokar has tried from page one of book one to manipulate Dalinar: just because he had a one on one moment with Kaladin doesn't change his entire character.

Elhokar has many flaws. My problem is he has not address even one of them. He just comes across and says he needs to abdicate, but then gets Dalinar to abdicate. Sorry, but I don't buy the genuine argument. He has a purpose.

[Knabepicer]

26 minutes ago, maxal said:

Because Elhokar has been a manipulative liar? Because Dalinar has been incredibly unreliable when it comes to Elhokar, always seeing the best in him even when he was trying to undermine him? Why do people even believe he is genuine? Elhokar has tried from page one of book one to manipulate Dalinar: just because he had a one on one moment with Kaladin doesn't change his entire character.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about here. Are you referring to the cut girthstrap? Because that wasn't even intended to try and manipulate Dalinar into giving up authority, it was just a half-baked plan to try and get Dalinar or Sadeas to believe the king's paranoia (unless you believe that Elhokar honestly has the strength of character to spin a lie like that right as Dalinar was one push away from murdering him). And as Dalinar mentioned, it was ridiculously stupid in ways that Elhokar didn't even think about. And even then, one incident does not a pattern of deceit make.

[maxal]

1 minute ago, Knabepicer said:

I honestly don't know what you're talking about here. Are you referring to the cut girthstrap? Because that wasn't even intended to try and manipulate Dalinar into giving up authority, it was just a half-baked plan to try and get Dalinar or Sadeas to believe the king's paranoia (unless you believe that Elhokar honestly has the strength of character to spin a lie like that right as Dalinar was one push away from murdering him). And as Dalinar mentioned, it was ridiculously stupid in ways that Elhokar didn't even think about. And even then, one incident does not a pattern of deceit make.

It was a pretty important incident. It meant Elhokar is able to hatch plans to promote himself if needs be. As I said, I don't believe nothing else is at work here. I don't believe in Elhokar being sincere. I believe something else is at work here. Maybe I am just paranoid, but every single fiber within myself is screaming whenever I read this scene: it isn't as inoffensive and genuine as it looks. I may be I am wrong in the conclusions, but I am convinced there is more to it then we have seen. I don't trust Elhokar. I really don't just as I don't trust Dalinar on anything having to do with Elhokar.

[Dlyol]

26 minutes ago, maxal said:

Things may turn out differently as the rebellion, it is against him, not for him.

I hate to quibble but as far as we know the rebellion in Kholinar is not against Elhokar but against his queen. That may seem like semantics but the trope of 'the king is good, his advisors are bad' is one of the most pervasive and universal in historical feudal monarchies and there isn't a huge amount of reason to believe Alethkar is otherwise especially given how gendered Vorin society is. It would fit completely with the facts we know to believe that the rebellion in Kholinar, like almost every rebellion in feudal societies, is being carried out in the name of the king and against his queen and her advisors. Pai, the instigator, may have ideas that challenge the social order generally but that does not imply the rioters do. Even if they do history is littered with examples of kings of even the meanest gifts who have managed to persuade rebellions they are on their side, even Elhokar's return ending the riots wouldn't be unprecedented.  .  

[maxal]

1 minute ago, Dlyol said:

I hate to quibble but as far as we know the rebellion in Kholinar is not against Elhokar but against his queen. That may seem like semantics but the trope of 'the king is good, his advisors are bad' is one of the most pervasive and universal in historical feudal monarchies and there isn't a huge amount of reason to believe Alethkar is otherwise especially given how gendered Vorin society is. It would fit completely with the facts we know to believe that the rebellion in Kholinar, like almost every rebellion in feudal societies, is being carried out in the name of the king and against his queen and her advisors. Pai, the instigator, may have ideas that challenge the social order generally but that does not imply the rioters do. Even if they do history is littered with examples of kings of even the meanest gifts who have managed to persuade rebellions they are on their side, even Elhokar's return ending the riots wouldn't be unprecedented.  .  

We do not know enough about the rebellion to state it isn't against the entire ruling class. Real life examples do not apply: nothing says this story will pan out as within real life examples. If it were just the queen, they why did they cut off all communications? Why aren't they begging the king to come back? It may be because they don't want him to.

[Dlyol]

@maxal It is, of course, the case that nothing forces this plot line to occur as these things have tended to do. Indeed, it may be that the drop in communications is due to a Revolution as opposed to, for example, Odium's machinations. I was suggesting, however, you were overly certain that Elhokar is hated. It strikes me as entirely plausible that a King returning born by a mythical weapon of a deity is the sort of thing that empowers small c conservative pro-monarchy voices in the rioters. From there, it wouldn't be hard for someone of even Elhokar's level of competence to restore order. While the series so far has been awash with low-level resentment of social order, I'm yet to be persuaded what we have seen so far is a pre-revolutionary Alethkar

[Darvys]

12 minutes ago, maxal said:

Yes. This. Precisely. If their lands in Alethkar were being jeopardized, if the focus was to be on their people, had Dalinar want it this way, then what is Adolin doing wasting his time in Urithity? What is Adolin doing overseeing wagon downloads, exploring a city and training troops? Why is he doing work anyone else could accomplish?  Why is Dalinar wasting Adolin away in Urithiru?

Adolin is stuck in the tower, same as everyone. And even if he wasn't, what do you expect him to do ? go help with the construction ? he'll get reports via spanreed and send his orders the same way, when the oathgate is opened, he can come and go as he pleases, as the portal is in his city. And restructuring and training their armies is not wasting him away, it's giving him an important task fitting his rank and qualifications. The exploring and micromanaging were Adolin's idea, to get his mind away from his current situation.

 

15 minutes ago, maxal said:

The princedom do not rule themselves on their own. Adolin as a Highprince would have to deal with a great deal lot more politic than action. It means endless boring meetings, discussions and political games which are fine when Dalinar tries to do them, but would be wasting Adolin's character, IMHO.

Nothing says Dalinar could not remain Highprince: nobody ever expressed the need for him to step down. Readers thought he ought to, but in-world nobody does. What Elhokar did is remove Dalinar from the one power seat he actually had.

As i said, they will soon realise that there is no time for games, they don't have time for them, and the author doesn't either. But yes, decisions will need to be made, some "boring" meetings will have to take place, what would you rather have him do ? Travel to some forgotten mountain on a quest to find his true self ? please. Adolin will still have to deal with what he did, and get over his insecurities, an eventual ascension changes nothing to that.

Well, Elhokar just expressed that need, and Navani seemed to think it fair. Nobody mentioned it before because no one paused to think about it,and that's pretty telling to me. What Elhokar did was reach out to the man who neatly sidelined him in an attempt to get a workable solution to the whole usurpation problem.

 

24 minutes ago, maxal said:

Elhokar is unable to take command of anything so why is it he ought to take the command out of Kholinar? He can't take decisions, he can't lead troops and he doesn't have the experience to do so, so in which name should he be the one to go? Because he is the king and he fancies people would acclaim him if he did? Things may turn out differently as the rebellion, it is against him, not for him. The people won't be pleased to see him. Elhokar will never be a leader of people nor a king: it is not his fault, some people just aren't made to lead. He needs to accept this and stop trying at being a leader.

We know nothing of Elhokar's abilities, he's been kept away from any meaningfull role in the war effort, all we've been allowed to see of him is the foolish extent of his paranoia and his naivety, both are flaws that can be overcome. I don't expect him to suddenly dazzle us with his brilliance, but i believe he will stop letting any passing lighteye make a fool out of him, and start using the brain he's got in his skull for something other than whining.

The rebellion is against the queen nof the king, for all the people know, he's been busy avenging their old king, fighting evil parshmen who turned out to be voidbringers. The author can spin this any way he wants. 

No one is born a good leader, Elhokar probably spent his life believing that by virtue of his high birth he already had the requisite qualities to be one, now he is starting to realise that he in fact isn't, and actually needs to better himself if he has any hope of becoming one.I wouldn't give up on him just yet.

41 minutes ago, maxal said:

Because Elhokar has been a manipulative liar? Because Dalinar has been incredibly unreliable when it comes to Elhokar, always seeing the best in him even when he was trying to undermine him? Why do people even believe he is genuine? Elhokar has tried from page one of book one to manipulate Dalinar: just because he had a one on one moment with Kaladin doesn't change his entire character.

Elhokar has many flaws. My problem is he has not address even one of them. He just comes across and says he needs to abdicate, but then gets Dalinar to abdicate. Sorry, but I don't buy the genuine argument. He has a purpose.

Manipulative liar ? Elhokar couldn't maneuver a fly out a window, he never tried to undermine Dalinar, his paranoia led him to grow suspicious of everyone around him, which in turn led to his 'test'. That one on one moment you seem so willing to discard was the first glimpse we had of Elhokar's true character, his budding self awareness and the lengths he'd be willing to go to be worthy of his title. 

And the point was never for him to abdicate, but to put clear lines separating his authority from Dalinar's, while allowing the latter to keep the upperhand as far as surviving the desolation is concerned.

 

Can't believe i'm here defending the guy, never even spared him a second thought while reading, thought it was transparent ...

[Knabepicer]

56 minutes ago, maxal said:

It was a pretty important incident. It meant Elhokar is able to hatch plans to promote himself if needs be. As I said, I don't believe nothing else is at work here. I don't believe in Elhokar being sincere. I believe something else is at work here. Maybe I am just paranoid, but every single fiber within myself is screaming whenever I read this scene: it isn't as inoffensive and genuine as it looks. I may be I am wrong in the conclusions, but I am convinced there is more to it then we have seen. I don't trust Elhokar. I really don't just as I don't trust Dalinar on anything having to do with Elhokar.

Again, I fail to see how such a poorly conceived and executed plan with no real malice behind it could really serve as the evidence for the extremely well-calculated and performed duplicity you claim is going on. Might as well say Shallan acting like a Horneater princess is evidence that she's hiding the fact that she's secretly a racist who hates darkeyes.

[Siaun Sanche]

1 hour ago, Darvys said:

Adolin is stuck in the tower, same as everyone. And even if he wasn't, what do you expect him to do ? go help with the construction ? he'll get reports via spanreed and send his orders the same way, when the oathgate is opened, he can come and go as he pleases, as the portal is in his city.

What orders would Adolin be making in this scenario? Wouldn't the people who have actually been running the Kholin lands this whole time be better positioned to make them?