[OB] Oathbringer chapters 10-12

[Kiwi]

- I love the idea of Syl as a mother, especially if it has something to do with Shardplate

- Pervy Spren, love it

- I really think Ryshadiums are interesting, I want to know what Renarin is thinking about them

- Renarin's Shardblade and Progression healing! Yay! (Never could imagine him being evil, or having "something wrong" with him)

- Kind of random, and not sure if there are actual implications... but was Adolin's vision of himself oddly similar to how Allomantic Gold/Malatium works?  

- I know it's just because I don't identify with Dalinar's type of character as much as I did with Shallan's, but I'm not enjoying the flashbacks as much as I did in the previous two books (Just my bias).  Hopefully I'll enjoy them more when the big stuff happens

- The Stormfather knows way too much, and says way too little

- Poor Dalinar, can't catch a break with Roshar's leaders.  But maybe his new position will help later on?

- I can totally dig Elhokar and Kaladin working together, might be really fun

- *groans*... Taravangian... what are you up to now? (I don't trust this guy AT ALL)

[Stark he/him]

18 minutes ago, PunSpren said:

High prince of information since he is already investigating?

No - Dalinar already named Aladar as Highprince of Information. 

 

Adolin will either get Highprince of War, or Highprince of Fashion.  It could really go either way...

Edited September 19, 2017 by Stark

[Nashan’Elin he/him]

8 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

Gold Feruchemists heal their body to match their spiritual ideal. I think it is indeed the spiritual ideal of himself that Adolin is seeing as his Physical body is brought into alignment with it.

Oh, okay. I've never seen that particular WoB. I guess I was thinking Cognitive Aspect because I've heard that Kaladin couldn't heal his slave brands because Cognitively he viewed them as part of him. 

[Agent34]

1 minute ago, Nashan'Elin said:

Oh, okay. I've never seen that particular WoB. I guess I was thinking Cognitive Aspect because I've heard that Kaladin couldn't heal his slave brands because Cognitively he viewed them as part of him. 

The Spiritual is filtered through the Cognitive so it plays a role.

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

Haven't read the comments:

• Voidbringers going to kholinar. Except they aren't voidbringers, they are parshendi, hmmmm, interesting. Do you have the right to fight them if they are just slaves throwing off their shackles, no evilness involved?
• Adolin and Gallant, awwww
• Adolin thinking on his blade...I'm almost starting to wonder if he will try to give up his blade on his own as it isnt "right" to use the dead blades
• Renarin got the Blade already??? Whaaaa
• RENARIN HEALED ADOLIN, YAAAASH

 

• So Dalinar defeated a Shardbearer without his own Shards, should have put 2 and 2 together already, but somehow didn't
• So Sadeas was the voice of reason in the conquest of Alethkar? And then people wonder what is wrong with the kingdom 
• freaking hell. I had read the spoilers, I knew what would happen at the Rift. But. Freaking. Hell.

 

• Can the Stormfather read his mind?
• Queen Fen, favorite monarch so far how is she alive though? Didn't Szeth visit her?
• Honorblade is out of the equation for now, wew
• damnation, Elhokar...damnation, wasn't expecting that. I think the Dustbringer theory just went up a few notches. I thought they were going to reach this point (Dalinar as highking or something) by the end of the book at best. Now in typical Brandon fashion its done by chapter 12 
• Tarvangian...trouble ahoy, sigh, poor Dalinar. 

[dgenio8]

I haven't read most of the comments, but I want to add my theory on Mr T's radiant. What if he has just an honorblade? It would allow the person to perform Surgebinding...

 

[PunSpren he/him]

@StarkAdolin as highprince of Fashion! love it!

On another note, do we know all the traditional Highprince roles ?

Edited September 19, 2017 by PunSpren
to add tag

[Lord Of Nothing]

So... Did anyone reading this wonder if the Thaylen Queen might be a proto-radiant herself? Not a lot of supporting evidence, just that what little we've seen of her personality matches the Stonewards, to me, and we don't have one yet, plus it's the section dealing with the radiants that made her suddenly go very distant and withdrawn. It seems to me to fit with her concealing something throughout the whole conversation, as well.

Just a thought.

[Nashan’Elin he/him]

2 minutes ago, Lord Of Nothing said:

So... Did anyone reading this wonder if the Thaylen Queen might be a proto-radiant herself? Not a lot of supporting evidence, just that what little we've seen of her personality matches the Stonewards, to me, and we don't have one yet, plus it's the section dealing with the radiants that made her suddenly go very distant and withdrawn. It seems to me to fit with her concealing something throughout the whole conversation, as well.

Just a thought.

Not a whole lot of evidence so far, but from what we've seen of Queen Fen's personality, it would be great if she became a Radiant and we got to see more of her. I like it!

[Stark he/him]

7 minutes ago, PunSpren said:

do we know all the traditional Highprince roles ?

As far as I can tell, we only know three so far, Commerce, Information and War.  Coppermind, reliable though it isn't at times, seems to confirm this.  There is an implication of a Judiciary Highprince as well, but no official confirmation or canonical title.

 

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Highprince

 

So there could be a Highprince of Fashion.  Not likely in the grand scheme of things, that seems commerce-y to me.  But still.  Dreams can be had.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Stark

[Calderis he/him]

So Taravangian already has Radiants. I'm honestly not surprised. He doesn't want them popping up and organizing against him, but if his followers, already adhering to the Diagram attract a spren? Of course he'll use them. 

Further fuel for my Taravangian as Bondsmith theory. 

Edited September 19, 2017 by Calderis

[Aleksiel]

I think the author of the in-world Oathbringer is more and more likely to be the Sunmaker since that was what his original Blade was called. His ideas must have been borderline heretical at the time (challenging the ardentia) and at that point I think vorin women already were the only ones who wrote, so the Sunmaker writing a book must have been unsettling as previous epigraphs implied.

[Musica she/her]

Holy storms. These chapters just keep getting better and better!

First of all- Shardplates are made up from child-spren of the Radiants' spren!! How amazing is that?? Do you think those 'children' are other, simpler spren being bonded/invested/influenced by the Nahel-bonded spren, or newly-formed ones? Maybe small, scattered, formless parts left of Honor given shape by the spren?

 

Sylblade! I seriously got the warm and fuzzies all while reading the Kaladin chapter. I adore his relationship with Syl:) 

Am I the only one, though, who felt like Syl sounded very similar to Shallan in their banter?

I guess we now know how the Tarah flashbacks will come about. Kal dealing with a new/past relationship  (or even just the possibility or concept) will be part of his arc and will possibly culimate in the forming of his Plate. 

 

Ren and Adolin were so adorable! We finally see Renarin using some of his abilities. I really want to lead more of Glys. 

 

Nobody wants to play nice with Dalinar. I already foresee frustration for me in that arc. I despise the whole miscommunication/deception thing that seems to be forming.. not to mention Mr.T, who will probably do anything he can to sabotage Dalinar's efforts..Almighty, please let someone find him out FAST.

And what's up with negotiating with the Parshendi? And what are they doing in general? I theorized that maybe they still resist Odium's influence and choosing not to attack (and Kal's interaction with them will be what makes him question the war against them), but maybe they are just preparing for the Boss Battle.

 

November is so far away...

Edited September 19, 2017 by Musica

[+robardin he/him]

5 minutes ago, dgenio8 said:

I haven't read most of the comments, but I want to add my theory on Mr T's radiant. What if he has just an honorblade? It would allow the person to perform Surgebinding...

I wondered this as well, but the Shin wouldn't just give one up - he'd have to steal one - and then deal with the Stone Shamans coming for his chull.

Given that KRs are, in fact, popping up all over Roshar, keeping Nalan busy playing Surgebinder Whack-a-Mole, it doesn't seem farfetched for one to appear in Jah Keved, and be fooled by Mr. T's benevolent facade. In fact, we've already seen a Radiant come out of Jah Keved (Shallan).
 

[Guest Edonidd]

The third shard - I still think Ryshadium horses are gonna have a big part to play in this series.

Hatham is only the third person we know of that has one, and he is in Urithuru now too.

At least one KR gets their plate in this book.  It was logical anyways, but looks unavoidable now.  Does Syl make spren babies or shape wind into doing it?  Or does the Stormfather let Dalinar have plate but not a blade (he says he would choose that way anyways) first?

Somebody who's better with the timeline, travel distance, and maps will have to figure this out for me, but is it possible that the war form parshmen who "gently" stole supplies could be the ones from the shattered plains who refused stormform?  They escaped into the chasms and Eshonai wrote them off as dead, but I think everyone agrees we'll see them again.

It doesn't make sense for the everstorm to change them into warform.  Warform is specifically NOT of Odium,  not of the unmade/parshendi Gods, and not of the voidspren.  Its an evolution of the forms the Listeners took to break away from Odium.  Plus we've already seen Stormform is pretty much a direct upgrade from warform. 

Something is off with that whole situation in that town.

"Stronger, with strange powers." - Is this just regular parshmen that haven't turned and Stormform being stronger with strange powers?  Because we know that.  Or is this regular parshmen turned to Stormform already, and then there are some who are even stronger with more strange powers?  Because that starts to make them sound like more of a threat.

 

I've been struggling to see how Voidbringers were ever going to pose an actual threat.  Parshendi in Stormform were probably strong enough to defeat a human army 1.5 times their numbers or so.  Tops.  Full shard bearers seem to be worth at least 50-100 regular soldiers though.  We haven't seen any full KR yet, but Szeth with just a blade and surgebindings destroyed shardbearers all over the place.  Kaladin just using little enough Stormlight to not be visible and a regular wooden spear was every bit the equal of shard bearing dueling champions.  Give him the plate, blade, Stormlight, and surges plus 20 or so bridge 4 squires and Kaladin probably could have won the battle for Narak by themselves.  Dustbringers are supposed to be even more deadly/destruction oriented.  That's not even taking Heralds into account, and it's still possible their ancient allies the Aimians join the battle too.

I think we have a lot more yet to see of the Voidbringers. 

[mavrik83]

This quote made me snort-laugh out loud.

Quote

He tried— unsuccessfully—to banish the image of lying in bed with a woman, Syl sitting on the headboard and shouting out encouragement and advice.…

Sorry Kal, you shall never again have privacy!

[Scriptorian he/him]

Alright, just so we're clear...

Quote

Thin, with almost no crossguard, it had waving folds to the metal, like it had been forged.

Is Renarin's shardblade a katana?

Quote

“Come on,” Syl said. “What about that Lightweaver? You seemed to like her.”

Syl no! Don't provoke the Shadolin shippers!

Also, I'm curious as to why Syl doesn't seem to have a problem with Lightweavers...

Quote

He’d wear this Plate morning and night—he’d sleep in the storming stuff....

Okay, ow! No wonder Dalinar is so grumpy...

Quote

‘Kholin,’ ” Kalami read, “ ‘you old brute. Quit spreading chull scat. What do you really want?’

I'm with Navani, the queen of Thaylenah is awesome. 

Quote

If Dalinar failed everywhere else, at least he would have King Taravangian at his side.

This might be one of the most sinister lines ever written. I'm pretty sure I heard distant wailing. 

The voidbringers have me worried.  They could be setting themselves up to be a body that, when faced with extinction, could be reasonable to ally yourself with. They do have legitament grievances (at least, they would be legitament if they weren't being  driven by a cosmic force of Hate). And this is opposed to the bloody tyrant and conquerer everyone knows the Blackthorn to be, who just declared himself High King of the World. 

[sooyangi]

I love the banter between Syl & Kaladin! Also poor Elhokar. So excited to go save Kholinar with Kaladin but Kaladin's already on his way there... I also wonder who the radiant Taravangian found is? I hope it's someone we've already met. 

And I hope Jasnah shows up soon. Dalinar seems a little lost, politically. 

[Herdazian he/him]

The Parshmen from Azir seem to be mediation form. They were mentioned in the listener songs as forms that could have made peace but actually delivered treachery and deceit and that is what their endgame right now might be. 

[the_archduke he/him]

Down with Shalladin!  Syladin forever!

 

Syl doesn't know what Kaladin knows, that he killed Shallan's beloved brother.  That should make Shalladin impossible.

Edited September 19, 2017 by the_archduke

[Nashan’Elin he/him]

This thread is going to be the sole reason I hit my upvote quota today

[Khyrindor he/him]

-Blurbs still point to Jasnah.

-Syl dropping truth-bombs on Kaladin.

-"It was difficult not to feel uplifted, even in the gloomy weather." Hooray for positive growth!

-The Stormfather can form new spren. Probably important later. Syl wants to try it.

-Voidbringers seem to be transforming into both Stormform and Warform, as well as looting food. Definitely points to gathering an army for a large-scale assault on Kholinar. 

-The ardent crushing on Kaladin & Syl's teasing. 

-Kaladin's still pessimistic about relationships. Trying to stop himself from liking Shallan.

-Syl doesn't trust Kaladin. Kaladin thinks it's the Blade, but Syl liked Dalinar even when he had Oathbringer.

-Lol. Kaladin thinking of Syl "cheering him on". Then: "Painful memory". Haha.

 

-Adolin calming himself down with Gallant; missing Sureblood. Feels, man.

-Mentions talking to his sword.

-Yay for Renarin being himself! Keep talking to Adolin.

-Giving away his Shardblade. I wonder to whom Adolin will gift it.

-Adolin knows Renarin almost as well as Renarin knows him.

-And we finally meet Glys! (Kind of). He must have gotten to the Third Oath to get a Blade.

-Adolin giving Renarin the encouragement he needs. Almighty knows he needs it.

-Whoop Whoop! Renarin using his powers to heal Adolin and show him a "perfected version" of himself. Must be both Surges active here-Lightweaving as well as Progression. Clearly means Renarin is a Truthwatcher for sure, though whether there's outside influence on top of that is still up for discussion. We're pretty sure Renarin knows Adolin killed Sadeas (and likely further injured his hand), so using his Truthwatching, he must have known what Adolin needed as well, even if he can't say why (healing, and seeing the perfected version of himself to aspire to later).

 

-Wasn't expecting to see the Rift so early, but I guess Dalinar's been thinking about it. This is still before he met his wife, though I seem to remember that he married her for the Plate or Blade? I guess those must have gone to Adolin.

-Sadeas being more responsible than Dalinar. Hmm.

-Nice to see some Gavilar, and a mention of tiny Jasnah.

-Uniting Alethkar seems to be going poorly. I wonder how that changed.

-Dalinar being new to Plate.

-The classic Sanderson "Notice-the-Trap-Seconds-Before-it-Springs" TM

-Black Arrow guy confirmed to be Teleb.

-Tanalan is a fascinating person. RIP.

-The terrible price of Oathbringer. I'm glad we didn't have to watch it happen, though I feel like adding it in would have helped us see even clearer the monster Dalinar was.

-Yep, Kadash is there.

-Dalinar is ashamed and horrified at what he did now that the Thrill is gone.

-Gavilar and Sadeas talking politics and all Dalinar wants to do is hit things.

-Oathbringer being Sunmaker's Blade is fascinating. I know we already knew that, but I feel like it will come into play since the in-world book is named after it.

 

-Stormfather doesn't want to talk about the Recreance. I wonder if we'll find out more this book.

-May is mentioned again. She'll be important but I doubt she's Vivenna.

-"A small group, prepared to change the world." Storms yes.

-Come on, Lift, open that gate! And Dalinar! Put two and two together and realise a Radiant brought the boy to life.

-I'm with Dalinar, politics suck.

-The Parshendi are negotiating with Azimir. Interesting. I wonder what their stipulations are if Odium really is in control of them.

-I'm worried that Azir will be mostly destroyed before they finally listen and come to Urithiru, and that will be the prompting that everyone else needs.

-They call Dalinar "Highprince Kholin" while all the Highprinces in Alethkar just call him "Highprince Dalinar". I guess the former is his actual title, and the later is used for simplicity and to avoid confusion with the king (ironic).

-I like the Thaylen Queen. Seems like Dalinar may get closer to bringing them to Urithiru soon, as she seems reasonable.

-Voidbringers stole the ships. Fascinating.

-The weapon Dalinar has chosen to keep secret is clearly Jezrien's Honorblade, which is still in Urithiru under his care. He has plans regarding it making a makeshift Windrunner to get to Theylenah quickly.

-I was right about Elhokar. He's upset but he realises this is the correct turn of events. Swearing fealty to Dalinar as Highking is exactly what needs to happen here, and Elhokar has taken it like a champ. As Dalinar must give up his lands to his heir, that technically makes Adolin Highprince.

-And it ends with Dalinar and Elhokar getting along well, even excitedly. I hope Elhokar is more reasonable than the other Monarchs, though I expect tension with that later.

-Elhokar is on the path to becoming a Windrunner Squire with his worshipping of Kaladin.

-Aaaaand Taravangian is coming to Urithiru. I literally spent two minutes groaning when I read this. This is going to hurt.

[redbishop]

19 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

• Queen Fen, favorite monarch so far how is she alive though? Didn't Szeth visit her?

Apparently not, as Szeth finished his list and returned for instructions.  Well, to "kill Teravangian."  Mincing words is fun.

The question is why did Mr. T leave her off the list?

11 minutes ago, Edonidd said:

The third shard - I still think Ryshadium horses are gonna have a big part to play in this series.

It doesn't make sense for the everstorm to change them into warform.  Warform is specifically NOT of Odium,  not of the unmade/parshendi Gods, and not of the voidspren.  Its an evolution of the forms the Listeners took to break away from Odium.  Plus we've already seen Stormform is pretty much a direct upgrade from warform. 

The 'Third Shard' business makes me wonder if Rhyshadium - already mentioned as being the mounts of the KR - choose their riders based on those that have the potential to be KR.  Could be interesting to watch.  Have we seen anyone else with one, other than the Kholins?

I wonder if there is a limited number of voidspren to go around, or if maybe having non-voidspren as the majority will make people feel conflicted at first.  Red-eyed monsters that summon storms to destroy your house are pretty easy to exterminate without having to really hate them - even Lirin gets that.  People that are suddenly sapient and just want to get away and survive?  Way harder to kill out of hand, and a better setup for Phase 2.

[Ramza1890]

Loved these chapters.

I hope that Kaladin and Elhokar do end up traveling to Kholin. I hope that throughout their arc in Kholin, Elhokar really grows as a leader and as he grows he begins to display Windrunner traits. We all assume that it's because of his proximity to Kaladin but, in reality, as Elhokar takes back his throne he speaks the words and is revealed to be a full blown Windrunner. I know it is a long shot given that Elhokar has such a long way to go to embody the Windrunner traits, but that is my fun fan fiction for the day.

[Darvys]

Probably not the best place for this, and this was all probably said elsewhere, but oh well, since he's involved in the chapter ...

I just don't see the need for a Mr.T as antagonist storyline at this point, sure i can understand killing Dalinar before he reached this point to leave the path open, but now ? When Dalinar is already working to unite Roshar, what would be the point of going on with the "King of everything" idea ? The deck is already stacked so unfavourably against the humans i don't think he can push his scheming too far without destroying his own chances at reaching his goal. I know we know nothing about his long term plans, but i can't think of anything right now to justify it. My guess is he'll be outwardly a strong ally to Dalinar, and his ploting will only revolve around measures Dalinar wouldn't deem ... radianty enough to agree with. If Mr;T is going to oppose someone, i think it'll be the various other secret societies flouriching on Roshar. That's why i find the theory having him become the "Cultivation" Bondsmith compelling, if his story evolves the right way. Any thoughts on this ?