[OB] Oathbringer 4-6

[+robardin]

19 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

I will upvote your post tomorrow if I remember to do it.

Thanks. Not sure how to upvote you for this (so I just upvoted your last post), but I just noticed your signature:

Quote

King of nowhere's three laws of cosmere relevant characters.

1) don't trust the beggars. Most of them are really worldhoppers, or protoradiants, or mistborn urchins. Escaped kidnapped princesses at the least.

2) don't trust the mentally ill. Most of them are worldhoppers, or they are receiving some vision from a shard.

3) if someone is both a beggar and mentally ill, there's a 50% chance it's Hoid

 

[Pattern]

Something about Moash: In TWoK he developed from annoying to a little less annoying, just to become quite despicable in WoR. I don't think he is irredeemable though. For Kaladin, he was the only real friend during his time as a bridgeman, because he was annoying and didn't follow him like sheep (more or less). So I guess Kaladin not giving up on Moash yet is not a bad thing. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Kaladin should be careful of Moash, should they meet again.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Pattern

[WhiteLeeopard]

3 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

Nitpick:  The fourth darkeyes ever to win a shard

Ohh, where is this info? Don't remember it, but would be awesome to knowthe number.

Edited September 6, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[the_archduke]

I am going from memory, but I believe Kaladin says it in the first book.  Looking now.

[+robardin]

6 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

Nitpick:  The fourth darkeyes ever to win a shard

And the first ever to be GIFTED a FULL SET. Probably the first person ever to be so gifted, other than an heir or relative of someone who already had a full set.

 

[king of nowhere]

11 minutes ago, the_archduke said:

Nitpick:  The fourth darkeyes ever to win a shard

I don't remember we're ever given this information. It was mentioned that darkeyes winning shards are rare enough that each one of them is remembered, but they could be a few dozens. And really, moash was pretty stupid for thinking about it. It would be like someone exposing himself to lethal doses of radiation in the offchance that he'll get superpowers instead of tumors.

3 minutes ago, robardin said:

And the first ever to be GIFTED a FULL SET. Probably the first person ever to be so gifted, other than an heir or relative of someone who already had a full set.

 

the first darkeye to be gifted a full set, on that we can bet for sure.

[+robardin]

31 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I never liked Moash. In TWoK he was a problem. In start of WoR he was like a mad dog snapping. In the end of WoR...HE BETRAYED A FRIEND, THERE IS NO GREATER CRIME, DIEEEEEEEE.

For what it's worth, Moash was reluctant to do it (or he could have killed Kaladin very easily - he even says, "I should have made it quick from the beginning" as his intended last words to Kaladin, and certainly seems to regret it later while escaping with Graves, on a personal level (regarding himself as a "traitor twice over").

I do wonder if he will somehow get rehabilitated. That would be quite a writing exercise for Brandon, but for all the hate that Shallan gets from some people, what she managed to do to (or for) Bluth with a sketch of him "not as he was, but as he once might have been, could have been" is one of my favorite scenes from "The Way of Kings". I would actually greatly enjoy a well-done execution of a Moash turnaround like that.

Edited September 6, 2017 by robardin

[WhiteLeeopard]

13 minutes ago, robardin said:

For what it's worth, Moash was reluctant to do it (or he could have killed Kaladin very easily - he even says, "I should have made it quick from the beginning" as his intended last words to Kaladin), and certainly seems to regret it later while escaping with Graves, on a personal level (regarding himself as a "traitor twice over").

Don't. Care.

Betray friend (for vengeance/negative emotions no less)= scum

Circumstances don't matter, guilt doesn't matter. Betray friend, deserve a random off screen death. Sadly I suspect a redemption arc incoming. 

19 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

I don't remember we're ever given this information. It was mentioned that darkeyes winning shards are rare enough that each one of them is remembered, but they could be a few dozens. And really, moash was pretty stupid for thinking about it. It would be like someone exposing himself to lethal doses of radiation in the offchance that he'll get superpowers instead of tumors.

Logic often doesn't come into it. After all, every darkeyes kid game is about pretending to win Shards, all had that dream. Rock's relative, or lord, whichever it was did the same thing, etc. But yes, was quite dumb reasoning.

Edit: I combed through the coppermind and found why the 4th darkeyes number may have appeared. Apparently they speak of stories of 3 named famous darkeyes who won Shards. Lanacin the Surefooted, Evod the Markmaker and Raninor of the Fields. And yes, Moash is first in generations

Edited September 6, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[the_archduke]

Thanks WhiteLeeopard, those were the ones I was thinking of

[Bcknight2]

4 hours ago, Calderis said:

@Bcknight2 I know there's been more discussion on it and I can't remember where, the only confirmation I can find is how Dalinar and the Stormfather are an exception to this.

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1163#7

"close" doesn't tell us the effective range, but I still think she's going to need to at least be in visual range (technically. I don't think a wall between her and the illusion is going to kill it). 

Eh... until we see an actual example of a Radiant losing their surgebinding I'm going to assume that limit to be like several miles... All this really says to me is that if the Stormfather is 'in' a highstorm on the other side of the world Dalinar won't lose his abilities because the Stormfather is somewhat omnipresent... and I'm going to assume that if Syl or Pattern were on the other side of the world the same wouldn't hold true.

But I don't think this WoB is enough to say that Kal or Shallan would lose their abilities if their spren was scouting for them within the same city...

I'm not saying that it's definitely true but we don't really have enough information to definitively constrain the possibilities as far as you are, I think.

3 hours ago, Nathrangking said:

She would not have to lose her surgebinding for it  to be a problem in WoR it was established that if she so much as left the same room the illusion would unravel. So unless she was nearby there would be no illusion. Practically speaking the limited amount of stormlight which remains in Urithiru would make the sustaining of the illusion for any extended period impossible.

The illusion would unravel before she came up with the trick of linking it to Pattern and giving him Stormlight to feed the illusion.

Rather long passage from WoR:

Spoiler

 As Pattern moved up onto the bed, Veil’s elbow—which was closest to him—grew more distinct. Shallan frowned.

“Pattern, move closer to the image.” He obliged, crossing the cover of her bed toward where Veil stood. She unfuzzed. Not completely, but his presence made a noticeable difference. Shallan walked over, her proximity making the illusion snap back to full clarity.

“Can you hold Stormlight?” Shallan asked Pattern.

“I don’t . . . I mean . . . Investiture is the means by which I . . .”

“Here,” Shallan said, pressing her hand down on him, muffling his words to an annoyed buzzing. It was an odd sensation, as if she’d trapped an angry cremling under the bedsheets. She pushed some Stormlight into him. When she lifted her hand, he was trailing wisps of it, like steam off a hotplate fabrial. “We’re bonded,” she said. “My illusion is your illusion. I’m going to get a drink. See if you can keep the image from breaking apart.”

She backed to the sitting room and smiled. Pattern, still buzzing with annoyance, moved down off the bed. She couldn’t see him—the bed was in the way—but she guessed he’d gone to Veil’s feet. It worked. The illusion stayed.

“Ha!” Shallan said, getting herself a cup of wine. She walked back and eased onto the bed—flopping down with a cup of red wine did not seem prudent—and looked over the side at the floor, where Pattern sat beneath Veil. He was visible because of the Stormlight.

I’ll need to take that into account, Shallan thought. Build illusions so that he can hide in them.

“It worked?” Pattern said. “How did you know it would work?”

“I didn’t.” Shallan took a sip of wine. “I guessed.”

Edit:

I already said in my original post that this is probably impractical with the current Stormlight shortage... But I don't agree that we can say the feat is impossible based on the information we have

Edited September 6, 2017 by Bcknight2

[Ansalem]

1 hour ago, king of nowhere said:

the first darkeye to be gifted a full set, on that we can bet for sure.

Well, technically the second. Kaladin was the first. Adolin gifted them to Kaladin who then gifted them to Moash. Kaladin may have earned them from our perspective but not by the law. By law Adolin won them.

[Nymeros]

3 hours ago, bleeder said:

So Dalinar's not a murderer, then?

Of course not, and if he did he would own up to it.

 

Anyone else like Moash besides me? I often like it when heroes have dissenters...no one reason he should have immediately put his faith in Kal. I'm really looking forward to his PoV chapters.

Edited September 6, 2017 by Nymeros

[Calderis]

2 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

Of course not, and if he did he would own up to it.

 

Anyone else like Moash besides me? I'm really looking forward to his PoV chapters.

I like Dalinar a lot, but I think that you're severely overestimating past Dalinar because of who he is now. 

[Nymeros]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

I like Dalinar a lot, but I think that you're severely overestimating past Dalinar because of who he is now. 

Right? Its like Ned Stark and Jaime Lannister had a baby....or something......yeah....nvmd that, Dalinars great regardless . >.>

 

Also, you may be right. Even though brutal and ruthless in combat he still seemed like a straightforward dude but who knows how he was when drunk and enraged?

[Hero-of-Pages]

19 minutes ago, Nymeros said:

Anyone else like Moash besides me? I often like it when heroes have dissenters...no one reason he should have immediately put his faith in Kal. I'm really looking forward to his PoV chapters.

Now, I may be misinterpreting what you have said about Adolin (murderer & cowardice, etc.) as you disliking him, but if that is the case (You not liking Adolin)...

How can you like Moash?! He planned on killing Elhokar in cold blood, who isn't nearly as evil as Sadeas, (who is responsible not only for the massacre of an entire army, but also several assassination attempts, and an institutionalized system of murdering his own citizens!) and almost killed his best friend. Whether or not he pulled it off isn't relevant, since he would have followed through if Kaladin hadn't stopped him. What part of that is any better than what Adolin has done so far?  

Edited September 6, 2017 by heroofpages
Names

[maxal]

17 hours ago, Nymeros said:

Yes. He's handling the situation like a coward....no need for comparisons. Maybe he will grow a pair though. Time will tell.

Of course there is a need for comparison: you can't call Adolin a coward and give a free pass to everyone else. Kaladin admits within those very chapters he hasn't yet broached the subject of his involvement within the ploy to assassinate Elhokar with Dalinar. How many days did he have to do so? Oh yeah, five full days and he failed to summon the courage to bring it up. Is he a coward too? 

The book is filled with characters having a hard time dealing with a few given aspects of their life, but it does not make them cowards, it makes them human. Adolin has shown he was willing to take responsibility, to accept defeat, to put himself out there for the need of others: no coward would have entered the four on one duel, no coward would have defied a king's decree and stayed in prison on Kaladin's behalf, no coward would give a darkeyed Shards, a unprecedented event in Alethkar. Adolin is however not perfect: admitting his guilt towards murdering Sadeas implies him admitting he failed his father. He is not ready for this and if he is a coward for this, then I nominate every other characters as bigger cowards as they took years to deal with their own issues.

14 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I am all for keeping secret forever. Although he will most likely tell some people eventually. Renarin, Shallan and Kaladin are at the top of his list. But keep in mind Adolin loves his family more than anything, its the one characteristic I would give if asked to say his most important attribute. Of course he would be happy his father and aunt (who already does a great part of his mother's role) got married. He is not the sort to let his own problems hinder the good times of his family.

I don't think the secret will be kept forever, but I do agree the lack of concern from either side, three days after the discovery is suspicious. Still, I am surprised he can be so happy for his father considering what his mental state ought to be at this point in time within the story.

14 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

This was certainly part of it. But mainly it seemed what it looked like. He hasn't been mothered or cosseted for 5 years, so he took 30min to enjoy the moment once he saw it was safe, knowing it would soon end as he'd need to take the reins.

Oh, I'm sure that that is the main reason. We're just having fun at imagining wild unlikely but fun possibilities . And part of what made that line so sweet is it shows more Kaladin-Adolin bromance. Once he wouldn't have noticed, or ignored it, or thought badly on Adolin for judging clothing. Now he read more rueful at Adolin but in a fond way. At least that's how I saw it. 

Yeah it was a great scene. I do agree Kaladin seemed to enjoy being coddled for a short time before getting back to business. It was a nice chapter, I really enjoyed it. The only things which would have made chapter 6 even better is having Kaladin conclude in saying:

"By the way, the short coat ran out of fashion a few seasons ago. Haven't you gotten the latest from Liafor?".

14 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Yes it is...but at the same time there was a dark edge is his statement. Maybe nothing will come of it, but maybe he is getting ready to roll in bad directions. But agree it was quite mature. (Sorry out of upvotes already, so can't give you one)

There was a dark edge to his statement and I am surprised there aren't more people reacting to it. I am blaming the general consensus wanting Elhokar to turn out being a good guy, a Radiant and a great king. I personally didn't think the statement was mature: while he does agree not to pull out a tantrum nor to make a big deal out of it, out of concern for his mother, he does conclude in saying he Dalinar's lesson to the world is to learn how to take what it wants. What does Elhokar wants and how is he going to try to grab it?

I foresee Kadash will pose problems. I foresee Kadash will try to manipulate Adolin into applying the writ allowing him to dispose of his father, but Adolin will waver, falter and while Dalinar has all eyes on his son, his nephew will back-stab him. 

14 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Seriously? Adolin may be one of the least cowardly characters in all SA.

D: "You need to go win an assault with half the forces everyone else gets"

A: "On my way"

D: "You need to win an infinite number of duels or our house comes crashing down"

A: "Consider it done"

Like maxal said, any other radiant character has refused to acknowledge past actions for years, but apparently non-radiants have to be 4x more brilliant than radiants to get half the recognition for readers.

Yeah. This. I am so tired of readers give nefarious intentions to Adolin's character just because he is not a Radiant while considering all Radiants as so much better. First he was a murderer bond to become Odium's Champion and now he is a coward for not having dealt with it after four days. Gee. Poor Adolin. Everyone holds him to impossible standards.

To all

I think some are reading too much into Shallan being around but not contributing to the main narrative. The most probable reason for it likely is her character had no inputs to make within the scenes where she was seen. There is no need yet to craft complicated theories as to what she may have been doing, let's instead wait for her POV to come.

 

 

[Toaster Retribution]

@maxal For once, I think we might agree about Elhokar. It seems more and more likely that he will turn on Dalinar. 

When it comes to Shallan, I agree as well. The only wierd thing is that she doesn't comment on being commanded to train, but that is no real biggie.

[Ansalem]

2 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

@maxal For once, I think we might agree about Elhokar. It seems more and more likely that he will turn on Dalinar. 

When it comes to Shallan, I agree as well. The only wierd thing is that she doesn't comment on being commanded to train, but that is no real biggie.

Well, she's already been training anyway. Being commanded to train in this case is being commanded to keep doing what she's doing. I don't really see why she would comment on it other than to say "okay". She already told Dalinar at the end of WoR that she intends to do just that, after all. They basically already had this discussion, no reason to rehash it.

[WhiteLeeopard]

33 minutes ago, maxal said:

There was a dark edge to his statement and I am surprised there aren't more people reacting to it. I am blaming the general consensus wanting Elhokar to turn out being a good guy, a Radiant and a great king. I personally didn't think the statement was mature: while he does agree not to pull out a tantrum nor to make a big deal out of it, out of concern for his mother, he does conclude in saying he Dalinar's lesson to the world is to learn how to take what it wants. What does Elhokar wants and how is he going to try to grab it?

Eh, my reasons for not talking much of Elhokar is I don't care too much for him. There are characters I talk a lot about because I love (Adolin, Kaladin, Szeth when the topic pops up). There are characters I talk about because I hate, (Moash, Amaram). Then there are characters I just don't care much about, so I don't think too much on what they may do as I'm not curious about them, Elhokar is at the top of that list. And sadly Shallan for me is a bit closer to that list than to others too. I'm dreading when we will get her sample chapters, as I will regret not having anyone else that week.

Shallan is actually a hard character for me, I have no clue why I haven't warmed to her. I like her scenes, I like what she discovers, I like her powers, I like her in a soft way...so whats my issue with her . Only good reason I can think of is that she gives too much a sense of invulnerability, anything she does will go perfectly, with no obstacles, and such characters are just boring. Its confusing when you don't understand yourself why you feel a certain way about a character .

Edited September 6, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Toaster Retribution]

3 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Eh, my reasons for not talking much of Elhokar is I don't care too much for him. There are characters I talk a lot about because I love (Adolin, Kaladin, Szeth when the topic pops up). There are characters I talk about because I hate, (Moash, Amaram). Then there are characters I just don't care much about, so I don't think too much on what they may do as I'm not curious about them, Elhokar is at the top of that list. And sadly Shallan for me is a bit closer to that list than to others too. I'm dreading when we will get her sample chapters, as I will regret not having anyone else that week.

Shallan is actually a hard character for me, I have no clue why I haven't warmed to her. I like her scenes, I like what she discovers, I like her powers, I like her in a soft way...so whats my issue with her . Only good reason I can think of is that she gives too much a sense of invulnerability, anything she does will go perfectly, with no obstacles, and such characters are just boring. Its confusing when you don't understand yourself why you feel a certain way about a character .

I think I might be the only guy here who likes and cares about Elhokar and Amaram...

Shallan is one of my favorite characters. I like her backstory, her wit, and Pattern (best spren, no contest, #votepattern2020). I also find her emotional traumas very interesting. I am happy that she is our main scholar, because Im not very fond of Jasnah. And also, her chapters will mean more Secret Society information, and hopefully more Mraize (I love Mraize too #votemraize2020).

[frozndevl]

50 minutes ago, maxal said:

I foresee Kadash will pose problems. I foresee Kadash will try to manipulate Adolin into applying the writ allowing him to dispose of his father, but Adolin will waver, falter and while Dalinar has all eyes on his son, his nephew will back-stab him. 

What is this writ you speak of? I don't recall and I'm terrible at searching for specifics like this.

[WhiteLeeopard]

8 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

What is this writ you speak of? I don't recall and I'm terrible at searching for specifics like this.

TWoK. Dalinar isn't sure his visions are real, or if he is going insane. He wants to abdicate, but Adolin convinces him not to. So they reach the middle ground of giving Adolin a writ that gives Adolin the authority to depose Dalinar as highprince, and become the new Kholin highprince, if for some reason he thinks Dalinar is going insane and losing his capabilities.

p.s. I think the writ was approved and signed by Elhokar too. Just reread it, but also terrible at searching chapters and pages.

Edited September 6, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard

[Siaun Sanche]

5 hours ago, Pattern said:

I heartily disagree. The Alethi are just refugees. If they could establish a rule in Urithiru, perhaps they could establish it as a de-facto province for a short time. As it is, mainly Dalinar's people explore the city and Dalinar organizes an interim administration. Without the Radiants, nobody has access to the city nor can leave it. It would be an Alethi prison at best, a starving ground at worst (no chance that the supplies last a season until the first harvest could be brought in). To call Urithiru an Alethi de-facto province like the Shattered Plains is just wrong. The Alethi are guests at best, thanks to Shallan who brought them there.

The thing is, Dalinar is also an Alethi. He's acting in the name of an Alethi king, he's handing out Alethi titles, he's seen internationally as an Alethi leader. Nobody of any substance in Roshar makes the distinction you're making between Dalinar's people and Alethi people. Dalinar's people are also Alethi (with the exception of Shallan, I suppose, who is engaged to an Alethi nobleman). I think it's quite likely that Dalinar will assume ultimate power at some point as head of the Knights Radiant, but he hasn't even really begun to attempt to do that. That's not as simple as going through a magic door and getting a thundercloud for a friend. You have to get people to buy into the idea of the Knights Radiant as a vital and necessary institution, and that's going to be tricky given the history. It's not impossible, but it's not where we're at in the story.

And really the immediate problem that Dalinar faces is that a bunch of the Alethi highprinces probably had no idea that they would be living under Dalinar's effective rule when they came to Urithiru, and they don't necessarily have a lot of reverence for the Knights Radiant as an institution due to many centuries of suspicion. So they're going to start out with strong reasons for suspicion, and the whole bit where Adolin murdered Sadeas is going to strongly test Dalinar's reputation for integrity. So it's going to be a struggle. And if people start to have the idea about Urithiru as a place separate from, or ruling over, Alethkar, it's going to be after that struggle and not before.

[flying_shadow]

33 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

I think I might be the only guy here who likes and cares about Elhokar

Well, there's two of us at least-but I mostly feel sorry for him. Once I thought I saw something in the mirror, and had a panic attack. I'm impressed that Elhokar hasn't smashed all the mirrors while in a panicky haze. In his position, I'd be contemplating suicide at the very least.

I feel like there's an equal amount of foreshadowing for both options that have been brought up. It's interesting that we seem to be mostly convinced that one of two things will happen-either Elhokar will become an antagonist, or he'll improve and possibly even become a Radiant. Just watch him become a Radiant and an antagonist.

[maxal]

56 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Eh, my reasons for not talking much of Elhokar is I don't care too much for him. There are characters I talk a lot about because I love (Adolin, Kaladin, Szeth when the topic pops up). There are characters I talk about because I hate, (Moash, Amaram). Then there are characters I just don't care much about, so I don't think too much on what they may do as I'm not curious about them, Elhokar is at the top of that list. And sadly Shallan for me is a bit closer to that list than to others too. I'm dreading when we will get her sample chapters, as I will regret not having anyone else that week.

Shallan is actually a hard character for me, I have no clue why I haven't warmed to her. I like her scenes, I like what she discovers, I like her powers, I like her in a soft way...so whats my issue with her . Only good reason I can think of is that she gives too much a sense of invulnerability, anything she does will go perfectly, with no obstacles, and such characters are just boring. Its confusing when you don't understand yourself why you feel a certain way about a character .

Oh I love to talk about how much I dislike Elhokar  more so than Amaram or Moash. Moash, I don't even dislike him anymore, I am even warming up to him : I think he was terribly misguided in his grief and made to do things he came to regret. I do not believe he will turn into antagonist, maybe a heroic sacrifice, but I see light at the end of the tunnel for him. He witnessed his grand-parents being unjustly imprisoned, then left to die while nobody cared about their faith. I can definitely relate to the powerful feeling of helplessness towards crass injustice as the one which befell his grand-parents and, for action prone individuals, seeing they are powerless to do anything about it is just tantalizingly excruciating. Little wonder when Graves came looking for a scapegoat in his plot to murder the king, he rightly isolated Moash. And I loved Kaladin punching Roshone in his name. What a great guy: even he managed to understand how Graves had manipulated Moash.

As for Shallan, I like her character and I enjoyed her story arc in WoR, but I was never too excited over the Ghostblood spying story arc. While she remains one of my favorite characters, she also happens to be the one I look forward the least to read. In my case, it is more I can't foresee what her story arc will be and what I do foresee isn't terribly exciting. I really don't care much for secret societies or Mraize, I don't find him nearly as interesting as other readers.

44 minutes ago, frozndevl said:

What is this writ you speak of? I don't recall and I'm terrible at searching for specifics like this.

@WhiteLeeopard answered for me. When Dalinar got Adolin to finally follow his lead and his visions, he made a rare compromised. He admitted there might be some truth within Adolin's claims and did not wish for his princedom to fall for his mistakes, hence he gave Adolin a writ allowing him to dispose of him shall he prove insane.

Seeing how Kadash has reacted to Dalinar's little speech of how the Almighty is not a God, but a lie, I definitely see him trying to convince others of Dalinar's heresy. He may not have to work very hard. I definitely think chapter 2 foreshadowed a war to dispose of Dalinar and pawns are currently being placed onto the check board. Currently, the best and only way they have to easily deal with the "Dalinar problem" is to remove him of his political powers by removing his title as "Highprince". All they need to do is convinced Adolin to apply the writ.

Kadash is very close to Adolin, he has a strong influence on him. He has tried to use him to pass messages to his father before. He may try again... except Adolin is WAY too loyal to Dalinar to even think of doing this, so how could Kadash pull this off? My current guess: by telling Adolin the truth about how his mother died and the truth about his father. Break the hero worshiping image Adolin has of his father, destroy it, shatter it and feel it instead with sorrow and pain. Have Adolin think his father truly is a monster.

While doing so, make plans with Elhokar. Elhokar wants his throne back, his speech implies he might jump and take what he wants, shall he ever figure out how to do it. 

I can see a real mastermind power play being made here... though it may play entirely differently. This, is just an idea I had.

20 minutes ago, Kalinovsky said:

Well, there's two of us at least-but I mostly feel sorry for him. Once I thought I saw something in the mirror, and had a panic attack. I'm impressed that Elhokar hasn't smashed all the mirrors while in a panicky haze. In his position, I'd be contemplating suicide at the very least.

I feel like there's an equal amount of foreshadowing for both options that have been brought up. It's interesting that we seem to be mostly convinced that one of two things will happen-either Elhokar will become an antagonist, or he'll improve and possibly even become a Radiant. Just watch him become a Radiant and an antagonist.

I could get behind that, but Brandon will need to write more of the character to convince me a spren would even choose him.