Everstorm Entropy he/him Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 We know that Honorblades give the wielder surgebinding of that Herald's Order, however a very inefficient form that drains a "dangerous" amount of stormlight. Theoretically, could Kaladin access the powers of a Lightweaver as well as his Windrunner surgebindings if he wielded Shalash's Honorblade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 Yes http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1052#82 Quote QUESTION For the Honorblades, if somebody that was already a Radiant used an Honorblade, would they get that Surge also? BRANDON SANDERSON It is possible to get multiples, yes. Good question. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathrangking he/him Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 And that combination would be quite awesome to behold or perhaps make him a stoneward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 35 minutes ago, Everstorm Entropy said: We know that Honorblades give the wielder surgebinding of that Herald's Order, however a very inefficient form that drains a "dangerous" amount of stormlight. Theoretically, could Kaladin access the powers of a Lightweaver as well as his Windrunner surgebindings if he wielded Shalash's Honorblade? A little thing. It didn't used to be that way. Heralds didn't have to use stormlight at all. The honor blades were directly connected to Honor, and Honor directly powered the Heralds. Now that he's dead, Honorblades aren't quite as fun, because now you need Stormlight to operate them, and it's less efficient. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathrangking he/him Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 They may be less efficient, but they are still among the most dangerous objects in the entire cosmere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Everstorm Entropy said: Theoretically, could Kaladin access the powers of a Lightweaver as well as his Windrunner surgebindings if he wielded Shalash's Honorblade? Just to add, we know that a Radiant could access Surges they aren't 'supposed' to have via an Honorblade but we don't know for certain if they would gain all the abilities of a particular Order that way. For example, we know that Resonances (the provisionally canonical term for the perks you get when different powers combine) only appear when you have a small set of powers and get overwhelmed if you have too many. Since we know the Windrunner perk for sure let's use that as an example. Shallan with Jezrien's Honorblade would gain access to Gravitation and Adhesion but she might not also get the 'more/stronger squires' perk that Kaladin has, either because the way Honorblades grant Surges doesn't allow for that kind of interaction of powers or because having four Surges would meet the unknown 'too many powers' threshold. Conversely, if Kaladin had Shalash's blade, he'd get Illumination and Transformation but he probably couldn't do all the things we see Shallan and Pattern do, because he doesn't have the artistic talent or the facility with lies that are such a big part of Shallan's Lightweaving. Whether Syl could be used as a Lightweaving prop like Pattern can is another open question. In a related note about Honorblades, I can't find it right now but we have WoB that in the past the Heralds would borrow one anothers Blades on occasion so this is something that's been done before in the setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The One Who Connects he/him Posted July 31, 2017 Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 11 minutes ago, Weltall said: In a related note about Honorblades, I can't find it right now but we have WoB that in the past the Heralds would borrow one anothers Blades on occasion so this is something that's been done before in the setting. Here: Quote "Q: Did the Heralds ever temporarily swap Honorblades and learn to use more than their regular two Surges? A: It has happened. (But it was not common.)" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafdancer she/her Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 6 hours ago, Weltall said: Whether Syl could be used as a Lightweaving prop like Pattern can is another open question. I doubt that she could. Lightweaving involves lying to a degree and Syl is honorspren. IMO, it would be very difficult (or possibly even dangerous) for Kaladin to try Lightweaving due to Syl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toaster Retribution he/him Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 15 hours ago, Flash said: A little thing. It didn't used to be that way. Heralds didn't have to use stormlight at all. The honor blades were directly connected to Honor, and Honor directly powered the Heralds. Now that he's dead, Honorblades aren't quite as fun, because now you need Stormlight to operate them, and it's less efficient. Do we have a WoB on this lying around? 14 hours ago, Weltall said: Shallan with Jezrien's Honorblade would gain access to Gravitation and Adhesion but she might not also get the 'more/stronger squires' perk that Kaladin has, either because the way Honorblades grant Surges doesn't allow for that kind of interaction of powers or because having four Surges would meet the unknown 'too many powers' threshold. Actually, I doubt that Honorblades would grant squires. When you wield a Honorblade, you are no Radiant, just a random guy with a weapon allowing you to Surgebind. I think that squires should be something that only a Radiant could have. Even if Kaladin wielded his Ash's Blade, he wouldnt be a Lightweaver Radiant, just a Windrunner with the ability to use Illumination and Transformation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Extesian he/him Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 Squires are an exception Quote Q: You have stated that each Knights Radiant order gets their own unique ability, for lack of a better word, due to the combination of their surges. For instance, you have stated this ability for the Windrunners is strength of squires. My question - is this due to the Nahel bond, or just inherent in the surges combining. Would a non-Radiant get these abilities from the Honorblades, or would they be out of luck due to no Nahel bond? A: Good question! The unique abilities have more to do with the powers interacting, same as how twinborn will often manifest some odd side effects of the powers interacting. But there are limitations. For example, Jezrien didn't actually have any squires, as none of the Heralds did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 9 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said: Do we have a WoB on this lying around? Actually, I doubt that Honorblades would grant squires. When you wield a Honorblade, you are no Radiant, just a random guy with a weapon allowing you to Surgebind. I think that squires should be something that only a Radiant could have. Even if Kaladin wielded his Ash's Blade, he wouldnt be a Lightweaver Radiant, just a Windrunner with the ability to use Illumination and Transformation. I got that WoB myself, I can speak for it. Finding the transcript is a different matter lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, Flash said: I got that WoB myself, I can speak for it. Finding the transcript is a different matter lol It's from the Boskone transcript which I can never locate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeldancer he/him Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 Just now, Calderis said: It's from the Boskone transcript which I can never locate I really can't wait for the new WoB archive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 41 minutes ago, Calderis said: It's from the Boskone transcript which I can never locate To make up for my earlier failure to source a WoB, here's that transcript. And below are links to the rest from the event. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Weltall said: To make up for my earlier failure to source a WoB, here's that transcript. And below are links to the rest from the event. Thank you thank thank you. And bookmarked. Edit: I know it's already in the links above, but finally being able to post this WoB makes me happy, so here's the confirmation answer @Toaster Retribution Quote 04:22] Q: The Heralds, back before Honor died, were they directly powered by Honor? A: Yes. You’ll find out more about that, but the Shardblades [pretty sure he means Honorblades here] were pieces of Honor’s soul that he gave them and direct access to his essence. Q: Like Vin and Elend? A: Yeah, a little like that. That’s why Honorblades don’t work like Shardblades do, like Radiants do. Q: The second part of the question is, what would happen if they were directly powered by Honor and they were holding Nightblood? A: RAFO Edited August 1, 2017 by Calderis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoolofwhool Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 On 7/31/2017 at 1:32 PM, Flash said: A little thing. It didn't used to be that way. Heralds didn't have to use stormlight at all. The honor blades were directly connected to Honor, and Honor directly powered the Heralds. Now that he's dead, Honorblades aren't quite as fun, because now you need Stormlight to operate them, and it's less efficient. The Heralds have always been inefficient in their usage of investiture when surgebinding using the powers granted by their blades, this is not something which has changed. However, as they were directly powered by Honor, inefficiency means little when they had access to almost to unlimited investiture. So really, it's not that the honorblades got weaker, it's just that the Heralds lost an advantage which made the disadvantage of the blades meaningless. Quote "Q: Does a Herald using an Honorblade consume the same ""dangerous"" amounts of Stormlight? A: Honorblades are less efficient; this doesn't change when a Herald uses them. (But they have other advantages.) Q: Are honorblades closer in power to Nightblood than they are to shardblades made from Spren? A: Hard to say. They're all similar, but at the same time, very different. And in a way, Nightblood is what you might call a ""Third Generation"" blade. Q: Ah gotcha. And in this analogy, Honorblades would be 1st gen and Sprenblades would be 2nd gen? A: Yes." [Source] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted August 1, 2017 Report Share Posted August 1, 2017 I really really want to know what a bond with Nightblood is going to grant Szeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varenus Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 Quote I really really want to know what a bond with Nightblood is going to grant Szeth. An interesting question: Would said bond grant abilities/surges that are of Endowment because Nightblood was crated using Breath? Endowmentbinding? Breathbinding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathrangking he/him Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 Who needs a special bond its powers by itself are more powerful than practically any single thing in the cosmere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weltall Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 3 hours ago, Calderis said: I really really want to know what a bond with Nightblood is going to grant Szeth. Given this WoB, probably not Surgebinding but it would do something. Given Nightblood's Command it would be kind of amsuing if it provided some equivalent to the Surge of Division since that seems to be the 'destroy things' Surge, it fits Nightblood's nature and it would fit Szeth since it's a Skybreaker power. But I don't think we really have any idea what it would do since Nightblood is a unique entity. For all we know it would give Szeth the magical power to be really good at cupcake decorating. 5 minutes ago, Nathrangking said: Who needs a special bond its powers by itself are more powerful than practically any single thing in the cosmere. Very true, but it's still of considerable academic interest since we know that other types of bonds would be percieved by Roshar's magic system as similar to a Nahel Bond and would produce some sort of effect. Basically any example of multiple Investiture systems interacting has the potential to tell us some cool things about the underpinnings of the cosmere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, Nathrangking said: Who needs a special bond its powers by itself are more powerful than practically any single thing in the cosmere. Because without a bond, Nightblood won't be powerful, he'll just kill Szeth and be done. Szeth needs a bond to be able to invest. Nightblood's abilities are impressive and completely impractical in most circumstances. Stormlight isn't like breath. You can't just stockpile for a time when you need to use him, you have to actively replenish your reserves while Nightblood is consuming them at an exponentially faster rate. To be perfectly honest, if Nightblood doesn't grant something to Szeth, he's a detriment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathrangking he/him Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 That is true. Perhaps it will invest him with the power to steal investiture from others at will to fuel his own powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varenus Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 18 minutes ago, Calderis said: Because without a bond, Nightblood won't be powerful, he'll just kill Szeth and be done. Szeth needs a bond to be able to invest. Nightblood's abilities are impressive and completely impractical in most circumstances. Stormlight isn't like breath. You can't just stockpile for a time when you need to use him, you have to actively replenish your reserves while Nightblood is consuming them at an exponentially faster rate. To be perfectly honest, if Nightblood doesn't grant something to Szeth, he's a detriment. I agree with you, but for arguments sake is it necessary for the investiture that feeds Nightblood to come from the person who is using it? Could infused spheres or the ambient stormlight in the atmosphere during a high storm fuel an unsheathed Nightblood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis he/him Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, Varenus said: I agree with you, but for arguments sake is it necessary for the investiture that feeds Nightblood to come from the person who is using it? Could infused spheres or the ambient stormlight in the atmosphere during a high storm fuel an unsheathed Nightblood? The closest I could find is this. I've always assumed as a sword he requires a wielder but this implies differently. http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1093#5 Quote PHANTOMMONSTROSITY Let's say some mistborn jerk tosses Nightblood into the mists. What happens? BRANDON SANDERSON I suspect the mists would pull away from Nightblood, though he'd try to feed on them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathrangking he/him Posted August 2, 2017 Report Share Posted August 2, 2017 Then there exists the possibility of Ambient stormlight being helpful. At the end of the day I suppose we must assume the existence of a bond until new information comes to light. Because as you put it so eloquently @Calderis Nightblood would serve as little more than a detriment to Szeth otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts