Stormlight reread - things to look out for

[+Extesian he/him]

This may be a strange Q&A question. I’m about to start my pre-Oathvember re-read of WoK and WoR. My last two were for enjoyment, this one I’ll take a forensic approach to. I’m reasonably full-bottle on general Cosmere lore, realmatics and WoBs so it’s about time I really get down some specific quotes and references from the books themselves.

 

So my question is – any things I should look out for? Any issues people can think of where WoBs are just not sufficient but you think there may be hints in the books I can look out for over the next 2 months? I’m far better at finding specific patterns than noticing them.so throw at me any thoughts. I’m thinking of things like eye-colors (not them, I’ve already done that, but things like that that are very hard to search for, but much easier when you track them as you read).

 

Things on my list so far: trying to identify the remaining Heralds; looking for evidence of the Iriali; looking for evidence of Honor’s perpendicularity; general evidence of potential worldhoppers, particularly kandra or DRAGONS; trying to find any mythology that may have been inspired by Cultivation (other than the Nightwatcher); evidence of any differences in the way different Nahel-bonding spren manifest, behave, self-identify and the way their surgebinders manifest new Oaths (eg Kaladin’s glyph explosions); any evidence at all of the main secret societies that isn’t immediately obvious; evidence of the origin of various ‘dead’ Shardblades; any evidence of cremlings or similar things that could be Aimian; anything that could indicate Rosharan and Cosmere timelines better than we know; and just generally any evidence that matter we consider canon or canon-ish may be mistaken.

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions guys.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Extesian said:

Hmmm I hadn't heard that about Argent finding out a huge spoiler (implying there is a huge spoiler to be found). I will pay particularly close attention to Renarin I think. 

I really hate to speak on the behalf of another poster as chances are I am remembering it wrong, but the spoiler he got was for Oathbringer, something to do with Renarin's visions, if I recall properly or at the very least his character. 

There was definitely a mention of a given passage in WoR which is supposed to give us a clue, but even than he was not allowed to tell us. I have been wondering about it ever since, but I lack the patience to search through the book to find it. It is a task better suited for other posters than myself.

13 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@maxal how long ago was this? Was it before we knew Renarin was the one writing the countdown? 

Oh at least two years ago. It was post-WoR, so we knew about the countdown. It has to do with yet unreleased material.

[Oversleep]

16 hours ago, maxal said:

Also, about two years ago @Argent was given a massive spoiler with respect to Renarin, something he promised he would not share and, as far as I am aware, he hasn't. If he pops in, he will be able to give us more information than my memory is allowing me to trace back, but I seem to remember him being told to look out for one specific passage about Renarin. Something telling, but not quite obvious. 

Quote

Question

About Renarin's Ssurgebinding. Are [his visions] they influenced by Voidbinding instead of Surgebinding? [unclear who "they" are-possibly his visions?]

Brandon Sanderson

That's a RAFO. Q: And then if they are influenced by Odium the way that Dalinar's are influenced by Honor.

Brandon Sanderson

That's a RAFO. I'm not going to talk about stuff like that! I have dropped some very blatant hints, and that is enough for me right now.

Argent

I asked pretty much the same thing last time, and you pointed me to a certain page. Can I tell her what the page was?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. There are certain things going on with him that I feel are very blatant. He [Argent] is going to point them out to you.
source

It's from October 2015.
The actual thing is here:

Quote

Argent

Renarin, his visions of the future are they connected to one of his Surges? Both of them? Are they a side-effect of his order?

Brandon Sanderson

Alright, how much of a spoiler do you want on this?

Argent

All of it. Is that even a question for me?

Brandon Sanderson

Really? Do you want to know something secret that you then cant post?

Argent

Ill bear the burden.

Brandon Sanderson

Youll bear the burden meaning I can tell you? [Answer does not get recorded]

source

This is from February 2015.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Oversleep

[Guest]

Yep. That would be it. On a reread, I would look for the page where the very blatant clue is. This has never been debunked, nobody ever found the evidence except the one person not allowed to talk about it. It'd be great, on the eve of getting Oathbringer, to find additional clues to this one. 

[Oversleep]

2 hours ago, maxal said:

This has never been debunked, nobody ever found the evidence except the one person not allowed to talk about it

@Argent IIRC you told about four people who asked you about that?

[Argent he/him]

On 8/5/2017 at 0:12 PM, Oversleep said:

@Argent IIRC you told about four people who asked you about that?

I don't keep track. A few. Though I imagine that now that you've outed me, I'll get a flood of questions (which I might just have to ignore...)

For those of you who want to keep an eye out, I'll share as much as people around me at the event know - Brandon pointed me at a specific page of my The Way of Kings hardcover.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Argent said:

I don't keep track. A few. Though I imagine that now that you've outed me, I'll get a flood of questions (which I might just have to ignore...)

For those of you who want to keep an eye out, I'll share as much as people around me at the event know - Brandon pointed me at a specific page of my The Way of Kings hardcover.

It was in WoK? Oh... I had assumed it was in WoR... Well, that's something to look for for those wanting to do a complete re-read. 

[Calderis he/him]

On 8/7/2017 at 11:41 AM, maxal said:

It was in WoK? Oh... I had assumed it was in WoR... Well, that's something to look for for those wanting to do a complete re-read. 

I've looked at literally every incident of the word "Renarin" appearing in the way of Kings. 

I'm at a total loss. In the majority of scenes in which he's present, that the extent of things. He's just there.

His most notable interactions are those with Wit. His obvious bitterness at his perceived worth due to his health.  His knowledge of the Nightwatcher, in both conversations with Dalinar. Finally his fits occurring just after highstorms, though we, at least think, we know what that about. 

The only thing in all of those interactions that seems to have never really been addressed is the Nightwatcher. 

In the first instance, Renarin is the one to bring her up in the conversation. 

In the second Dalinar is surprised at Renarin's lack of concern over having gone. I always assumed that this was due to Dalinar's excessive sense of guilt. 

Is the unaddressed secret supposed to be that Renarin has been to the Nightwatcher? I find that hard to believe. True, we haven't seen a lot about Renarin's past specifically, but how would he have gone there and it not ever have been noticed? 

Unless his mother took him there as a child trying to heal his illness, I just don't see how it's possible. 

The only other alternative though, is that it's something to do with the storm visions, and I don't see anything there that we haven't already discussed to death. 

[Calderis he/him]

@maxal which is frustrating, as Brandon has repeatedly stated that he thinks his hints about Renarin are "blatant." 

I think this may be one place where Brandon's not able to separate the knowledge he he has vs. what's written. 

There's nothing that seems to be a glaring tell towards anything at all. 

[+Extesian he/him]

Great rundown @Calderis and @maxal. And thanks for giving what you can @Argent. I'm not sure if you wish you could share more or you're sitting back, laughing maniacally and stroking your beard (I like to think the latter), but a tantalising hint and a mighty quest is exactly what I've been needing during the 17th Shard's Weeping 

Since I've finally started my Way of Kings reread, I shall obsess on this and report back. I'll particularly look out for mentions of Renarin where his name isn't stated (ie scenes that are hard to search for).

A quest!

[Calderis he/him]

@Extesian in all this searching I've come across some weird WoBs. Weirdest of all so far is this one that makes me really want to know what the question was

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1125#34

Quote

THE_ARCHDUKE

I missed the question but someone seemed to be berating Brandon in line about how poorly Glys treats Renarin, like it was abusive or something.

BRANDON SANDERSON

Brandon said that that relationship is different, even for a Nahel bond. And we will see a lot more of Renarin in the next book.

 

[+Extesian he/him]

9 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@Extesian in all this searching I've come across some weird WoBs. Weirdest of all so far is this one that makes me really want to know what the question was

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1125#34

 

Intriguing. The Renarin Quest is top of the agenda now so I'll see if that helps. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Calderis said:

@maxal which is frustrating, as Brandon has repeatedly stated that he thinks his hints about Renarin are "blatant." 

I think this may be one place where Brandon's not able to separate the knowledge he he has vs. what's written. 

There's nothing that seems to be a glaring tell towards anything at all. 

Did you read WoT? If not, do not read the following spoiler.

Spoiler

Who killed Asmodean is a question which has haunted many WoT fans for several years. Jordan kept on saying the answer was intuitively obvious, but seeing of much discussion it created, I can't say it truly was.

We may be dealing with a similar case. Nothing about Renarin is intuitively obvious. I stumble upon posts, on a regular basis, coming from readers being disappointed in how Renarin became a Radiant as they didn't feel it was intuitively obvious enough to be plausible. So I dunno why Brandon thinks it is blatant: nothing is blatant about Renarin. 

Usually, most discussion on Renarin's character have a hard time differentiating with what is said in text and things readers want to associate to his character based on tropes. It is really hard to get answers when it comes to his character.

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

@Extesian in all this searching I've come across some weird WoBs. Weirdest of all so far is this one that makes me really want to know what the question was

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=1125#34

 

I am aware of this WoB. There is a general sentient among the fandom Renarin has been abused, bullied, picked on, unloved and downright denigrate throughout his life. This sentient, combined with people having a hard time understanding why Renarin seems so ill-at-ease with being a Radiant, has cause many to theorize Glys is somewhat mean to Renarin, hence this question. 

The answer is not telling at all: Brandon doesn't confirm nor infirm Glys is being mean to Renarin, but he does say we'll find out more about their relationship within the next book. I don't see it as a clue towards anything. 

[Calderis he/him]

2 minutes ago, maxal said:

The answer is not telling at all: Brandon doesn't confirm nor infirm Glys is being mean to Renarin, but he does say we'll find out more about their relationship within the next book. I don't see it as a clue towards anything. 

I don't agree. He doesn't give new information, but intentionally adds more questions. The statement that the relationship is different than your typical Nahel bond is not meaningless. It just creates more ambiguity. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I don't agree. He doesn't give new information, but intentionally adds more questions. The statement that the relationship is different than your typical Nahel bond is not meaningless. It just creates more ambiguity. 

Except it doesn't directly answer to the question... It doesn't say if Glys is indeed mean to Renarin or not, but it goes hand in hand with other WoB where he says sprens can be cruel. I really don't think it is given us much of an answer within the specific case of Renarin.

[Calderis he/him]

3 minutes ago, maxal said:

Except it doesn't directly answer to the question... It doesn't say if Glys is indeed mean to Renarin or not, but it goes hand in hand with other WoB where he says sprens can be cruel. I really don't think it is given us much of an answer within the specific case of Renarin.

I do agree with that. It's what I was saying about it adding questions instead of answering. 

It's not meaningless, but it doesn't help create any kind of clarity. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Calderis said:

I do agree with that. It's what I was saying about it adding questions instead of answering. 

It's not meaningless, but it doesn't help create any kind of clarity. 

Well, if the questioner's intentions were to get proof Renarin is indeed being bullied by his spren, then it is meaningless, but it isn't meaningless to the overall concept of relationship in between Radiants and sprens.

[+Extesian he/him]

I must say I don't care anywhere near as much about Renarin's personal relationship with Glys as I would about the bond or Gly himself actually being different. That's what interests me and what I'll be looking out for. I like Renarin but I'm not very interested in him yet, more in his significance. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Extesian said:

I must say I don't care anywhere near as much about Renarin's personal relationship with Glys as I would about the bond or Gly himself actually being different. That's what interests me and what I'll be looking out for. I like Renarin but I'm not very interested in him yet, more in his significance. 

Glys's physical appearance has been RAFOed in the past too, but it was before the release of Edgedancer. Why Brandon has been refusing to comment on Glys's appearance and why he has refused to tell us which order Ym was from remains a mystery. Why all the secrecy? It doesn't seem so important.

[Argent he/him]

14 hours ago, Extesian said:

Great rundown @Calderis and @maxal. And thanks for giving what you can @Argent. I'm not sure if you wish you could share more or you're sitting back, laughing maniacally and stroking your beard (I like to think the latter), but a tantalising hint and a mighty quest is exactly what I've been needing during the 17th Shard's Weeping 

Since I've finally started my Way of Kings reread, I shall obsess on this and report back. I'll particularly look out for mentions of Renarin where his name isn't stated (ie scenes that are hard to search for).

A quest!

Oh, the beard strokage is real. I'll say that The Page does not have Renarin's name on it in my US hardcover, how's that for a hint?

This being said, I don't think you can reasonably deduce it. Nothing on that page points to Renarin, so for all you know, it might be something in Rysn's interlude that's the reveal (it's not). So while you can guess, it will be just that - a guess.

[Calderis he/him]

2 minutes ago, Argent said:

Oh, the beard strokage is real. I'll say that The Page does not have Renarin's name on it in my US hardcover, how's that for a hint?

This being said, I don't think you can reasonably deduce it. Nothing on that page points to Renarin, so for all you know, it might be something in Rysn's interlude that's the reveal (it's not). So while you can guess, it will be just that - a guess.

That's... Damnation. 

I didn't realize it was possible to feel envious, angry, and excited at the same time. 

Well done Argent. 

[Steeldancer he/him]

Well that narrows things down a little. 

You've given me something to think about. 

I have US softcover so I'll probably be fine. Bring it on. Page by page. 1200 pages. 

[Guest]

Sure, now we just need to carefully examine every single page where Renarin's name is not mentioned  Easy task.

[Steeldancer he/him]

20 minutes ago, maxal said:

Sure, now we just need to carefully examine every single page where Renarin's name is not mentioned  Easy task.

Besides Rysns interlude. 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Flash said:

Besides Rysns interlude. 

Of course. So we narrowed it down to how many pages? 

[Calderis he/him]

I'm steadily convincing myself that Renarin's Autism is Nightwatcher curse... Autism is a neurological problem after all... 

Someone talk me out of it.