How to Hide an Honourblade

[ScarletSabre he/him]

Heya everyone!

So, with Oathbringer on the horizon at last, I thought I'd speculate on where and how Dalinar is going to hide the Honourblade he recieved from Kaladin at the end of Words of Radiance. My prediction is.... That he's going to give it to Navani to bond.

I predict this for a few reasons. Jasnah and Shallan excluded, nobody will expect a woman to be a Shardbearer, and as we have seen with the assassin Jasnah paid, and Kaladin's suspicions of Shallan, they can use this to gain the element of surprise.

Dalinar would also give it to Navani so she has a form of protection when he's not around, as he would naturally worry about her being protected, especially now that he's a Bondsmith and has even more things to focus on and occupy his time.

And finally, because I predict Navani will henpeck/outright bully him into giving it to her, not only using my arguments above, but because she's the world's most renowned artifabrian, and if anyone can unlock the secrets of what she'll no doubt see as just a very advanced Fabrial, it'll be her. The prospect of her being able to figure out how to bestow surges on ordinary/deserving soldiers, and a Shardblade to boot, now that she'll find out Shardblades are made of Spren, will be too tempting for Dalinar to resist.

Thoughts? Anyone have any better ideas?

[Landis963 he/him]

Assuming, of course, that he hides it.  It might be good political leverage to get the Shin on their side ("You gave a Shardblade to an exile and told him to obey anyone he meets?  What were you thinking?").  

[Storming Radiant he/him]

I don't think Navani will get this specific sword. It's the Windrunner's honorblade and I always saw them as a more fighty order. I don't think Dalinar would waste it on her, seeing as she has no fighting experience in the slightest. My guess is on Adolin. I really want Kaladin to give that sword to him, it might counter any future jealousy he might have for everyone around him are KR and he's not.

[Calderis he/him]

6 minutes ago, Landis963 said:

Assuming, of course, that he hides it.  It might be good political leverage to get the Shin on their side ("You gave a Shardblade to an exile and told him to obey anyone he meets?  What were you thinking?").  

I don't think the Shin care about external politics whatsoever. Even their trading seems to be be driven by procurement of material their religion makes difficult to attain. 

Their religion seems to rank above all else, and as Szeth's was a religious punishment, the politics and opinions of the "stonewalkers" is going to bear little relevance. 

To the OP. at first the idea is appealing, Navani would have a level of protection, and access to gravitation for the ability to flee. 

I think that even if Dalinar proposes this option though, Navani herself will argue against it. I don't doubt she'd want to study it, but as an artifabrian she has been studying Shardblades for years and realizes that they have no idea how they work. Taking a blade that is obviously more complicated, and able to do things that a Shardblade can't, when it is physically no different than a Shardblade, is only going to complicate an object of study that is already beyond their understanding. I think that Navani is wise enough to realize that as much as she will want to study the Blade, there's no way for them to determine how it functions. At least not with their current level of knowledge. 

[Weltall]

@Calderis I agree with your points on the Honorblade not being good leverage over the Shin but I'm not sure I can agree with you on Navani not bonding the Honorblade out of research concerns. The main reason for this is that she's eventually going to learn from the emerging Radiants in her family that Shardblades (and Plate, but perhaps in a slightly different way) aren't the super-fabrials they've been assuming but work on a different principle so there really isn't a future in continuing Shardblade research as they've been doing it. If they want more Blades and Plate, they'll need to get more people forming Nahel Bonds and study how that works. I'm sure she'll be picking Jasnah and Shallan's brains nonstop as soon as she learns that.

Now, on the general question of hiding that Honorblade, we have WoB that they're going to be using it to a degree because Brandon has mentioned testing it on the Oathgates so it's obviously not going into a storeroom somewhere. I'm not sure if Brandon wants to start experimenting with unusual Surgebinding combinations so early in the series but we're probably eventually going to see Honorblades used for that purpose. But assuming he isn't going to start now we can speculate that the blade isn't going to any of the proto-Radiants. Adolin already has a Shardblade and since he's not a Surgebinder, the Honorblade-granted Surges and his Shardplate would interfere with one another so he wouldn't get a real benefit from Jezrien's Blade. I think Navani's actually a pretty good possibility if Dalinar wants to 'hide' the thing, especially as he and Navani were already partners in the Great Shardblade Switcharoo in Words of Radiance.

The other possibility of course is that Dalinar gives the Honorblade to the temporary King of Alethkar, The Lopen the First and Only of His Name.

[Calderis he/him]

Fair point and I don't really disagree with you. 

17 minutes ago, Weltall said:

The other possibility of course is that Dalinar gives the Honorblade to the temporary King of Alethkar, The Lopen the First and Only of His Name.

This would be glorious. Flying formerly one-armed Herdazian jokes incoming. 

[geo3p]

I think that is very likely that he will give it to navani but I don't know if they will be able to do this secretly because everyone knows the "sick for a week" play already because dalinar flat out told people that. also if navani does pester dalinar to give it to her it won't be because she thinks of it as a fabrial because she will undoubtedly ask one of the radiants about it and find out that the blades are really spren. If she asks kaladin she will find out that the honor blades are not spren and were created afterwards to emulate what the spren were doing.

 

[StrikerEZ he/him]

21 minutes ago, geo3p said:

I think that is very likely that he will give it to navani but I don't know if they will be able to do this secretly because everyone knows the "sick for a week" play already because dalinar flat out told people that. also if navani does pester dalinar to give it to her it won't be because she thinks of it as a fabrial because she will undoubtedly ask one of the radiants about it and find out that the blades are really spren. If she asks kaladin she will find out that the honor blades are not spren and were created afterwards to emulate what the spren were doing.

 

Well, you got the last part half right. The Honorblades are definitely not spren, but they were not made to copy spren; the spren copied the Honorblades.

[Calderis he/him]

27 minutes ago, geo3p said:

I think that is very likely that he will give it to navani but I don't know if they will be able to do this secretly because everyone knows the "sick for a week" play already because dalinar flat out told people that.

This won't be necessary. All bonding an Honorblade involves is holding it. 

[Azul he/him]

Whatever happens to it I expect the Shin get involved somehow.   In one of Szeth's interludes in WoK he tells us

 "He was required to carry the Blade until his death, after which Shin Stone Shamans would recover it from whomever had killed him."

[+Extesian he/him]

4 hours ago, Calderis said:

This won't be necessary. All bonding an Honorblade involves is holding it. 

There are semi-conflicting WoBs on this. 

Quote

MACEN

If someone is using an Honorblade, would they be able to bond a spren?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It is indeed possible. It does not block it. Good question. You do not have to bond Honorblades. Honorblades work with whoever holds them.

Quote

INTERVIEW: Mar 19th, 2014

WoR Signing Report - darkanimereal1 and luke (Verbatim)

QUESTION ()

You mentioned that human can’t bond Honorblades, but Nalan tells Szeth that his bond with his Honorblade has been broken. Can you clear this up?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Humans CAN bond Honorblades. There's a crucial difference between Honorblades and Shardblades. When you drop an Honorblade, it does not disappear, even if it has been bonded. A Shardblade will disappear when dropped

I believe the second one holds. You don't need to bond an Honorblade to use it. But you can and I think you need to if you want to dismiss it (hide it). Unless someone has seen something different? Otherwise yeah I agree. 

Adolin would be a good option. Dude would be so ninja. But what about Dalinar himself? He's a radiant without a Shard but perhaps an Honorblade wouldn't count as its not a dead spren and it doesn't limit the Stormfather 

[CJ Feboris]

This discussion is missing a crucial point. The heralds. They will certainly be in Oathbringer and they will need their blades back, I think that we will see the heralds reclaim their blades. 

[Luck Spren]

3 minutes ago, CJ Feboris said:

This discussion is missing a crucial point. The heralds. They will certainly be in Oathbringer and they will need their blades back, I think that we will see the heralds reclaim their blades. 

I can certainly see Kalak doing this. Nale already has his own blade. But what about the others? What makes you believe they still serve their original purpose? The Oathpact was broken for reasons that are still unknown. 

[Aminar]

I would think Dalinar will keep it. He can't really hold a Shardblade anymore. Its a fantastic defensive weapon for him. Lets him fly(maybe.) Can block a shardblade. Doesn't scream bloody murder when he touches it. I doubt he'd hand it off to Navani. It would make her too much of a target with no experience defensing herself physically. Somebody would work it out and I doubt he wants to risk losing her. 

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

If we are right about who Jezrien is (drunk beggar at tWoK), I think the characters may be more concerned with him stabbing himself by accident than getting any use out of the honorblade. 

Adolin keeps coming to mind, but he is used to Blade and Plate, not sure how he would do without Plate, after all Szeth had years of practice behind him, and Kaladin is a natural as it is his actual order. It might be too long for a normal person to learn how to use an Honorblade before we can expect the kind of level which Szeth and Kaladin had in their fight.

Dalinar...going from 0 to 3 surges seems a bit OP so fast, and I would imagine he would be getting used to the Stormfather in the inmediate future. But its a possibility. 

Edited June 23, 2017 by WhiteLeeopard
Added Dalinar speculation

[maxal she/her]

I personally do not support Adolin as the next bearer of the Honorblade. I honestly do not even find it an interesting plot point.

Currently, the interest in Adolin's character relies on the fact he is powerless, the fact he will have to deal with his family having been chosen as the refounded of the Radiant orders, to deal with the fact he wasn't chosen, he wasn't deem worthy not by one spren, but by each and every one of the numerous ones gravitating around his family. What if, to make matters worst, the sprens did choose Elhokar as many are theorizing? Adolin has little respect for his cousin, so what if he has to witness him, of all people, being deem worthy, but not he? He'll have to adjust, to also deal with his fiance ranking higher than he is. In shorts, his story arc isn't about getting "more power", but having to deal with "having less". He hasn't lost anything, yet, but what he has is now... somewhat irrelevant. To make matter worst, all of it happens right after he finally fulfills his dream of becoming the Dueling Champion. Think of someone, anyone, working out for years to accomplish something only to be told, once they finally succeed, it does not matter and it now is completely outdated and irrelevant.

Giving Adolin the Honorblade would remove his character from getting this very interesting story arc. He'll never know who he is truly meant to be if he is given an all too powerful toy to play with in order to reach Radiant's power level. I would also be very disappointed if Adolin actually accept the gift, providing it is even offered to him. He has always come across as someone valuing hard-work and perseverance, not hand done powers. If Dalinar even thinks of giving it to Adolin, I personally hope Adolin will say no, no because he wouldn't feel he has earned it.

This being said, knowing Dalinar, he will most likely offer it to Elhokar before anyone else. Navani is a good second choice, Adolin only comes third or much lower, I think. 

5 hours ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

Adolin keeps coming to mind, but he is used to Blade and Plate, not sure how he would do without Plate

It is said, somewhere within the books, it is very hard for former Shardbearers to adjust fighting without a Plate. I have personally always wanted to read Shardless Adolin just to see how he'll adapt, so we'll see.

[Darkness he/him]

On ‎24‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 3:31 AM, WhiteLeeopard said:

If we are right about who Jezrien is (drunk beggar at tWoK), I think the characters may be more concerned with him stabbing himself by accident than getting any use out of the honorblade. 

Adolin keeps coming to mind, but he is used to Blade and Plate, not sure how he would do without Plate, after all Szeth had years of practice behind him, and Kaladin is a natural as it is his actual order. It might be too long for a normal person to learn how to use an Honorblade before we can expect the kind of level which Szeth and Kaladin had in their fight.

Dalinar...going from 0 to 3 surges seems a bit OP so fast, and I would imagine he would be getting used to the Stormfather in the inmediate future. But its a possibility. 

Stormlight burns away alcohol, and if Jezrien somehow still perceives himself as the king of the heralds, then I'm sure he could make a recovery. However, I would be awfully surprised if Navani didn't grill Shallan about Pattern in this next book. From that she should find out about dead/living shardblades and realize that the honorblade is something else entirely. From there it's a very short step to her convincing Dalinar to let her study it. It really is a mechanical means of accessing the surges (like soulcasters), and she might be able to learn some things from it. I doubt that she will be the one to bond it though. I honestly have no idea who would, if anyone does at all. It is the blade that slew Gavilar, and wreaked havoc across much of Roshar. I'd like it better if Dalinar reclaimed oathbringer than bonding this blade to be honest.

[Pattern he/him]

The honorblade should be bonded by someone, otherwise I see the great possibility of a theft. I can't recall who witnessed Kaladin giving the blade to Dalinar but somehow word of it could and should have reached the Ghostbloods and/or Amaram. Also Ialai might be interested to replace the recently won and lost Oathbringer in her family fortune.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

So, to toot my own horn from the last time this was discussed, there's always my testament to Brandon's writing quality that Lopen will get it and it'll make perfect sense to us.

Other artifacts I remember from last time:

• The Navani idea is valid because in-world people wouldn't suspect her to have it
• Kaladin dual wielding, or Honorblade with Syl-Shield
• Something about Nalan, I believe...

In all seriousness, Dalinar keeping it for use as a sword and not for the surges it grants is always possible.

[Devious he/him]

On 24/06/2017 at 2:54 AM, Luck Spren said:

I can certainly see Kalak doing this. Nale already has his own blade. But what about the others? What makes you believe they still serve their original purpose? The Oathpact was broken for reasons that are still unknown. 

Wasn’t the oathpacr broken because they couldn’t handle the torture anymore.

[Luck Spren]

35 minutes ago, Devious said:

Wasn’t the oathpacr broken because they couldn’t handle the torture anymore.

That's what we're told from Kalak's perspective. I'm not saying that the torture part isn't true, but I'm 100% sure that a lot more stuff went down leading to that. Remember that we only see 2 Heralds in that scene.

[Aminar]

On 6/27/2017 at 5:55 AM, Luck Spren said:

That's what we're told from Kalak's perspective. I'm not saying that the torture part isn't true, but I'm 100% sure that a lot more stuff went down leading to that. Remember that we only see 2 Heralds in that scene.

It really does sound like its mostly the torture. I mean, Millenia of agony will break anyone. The fact the Heralds held up for that long... It's awe inspiring in its own way. I don't think there needs to be any more. 

[Weltall]

On 6/26/2017 at 0:57 PM, The One Who Connects said:

In all seriousness, Dalinar keeping it for use as a sword and not for the surges it grants is always possible.

One argument I can think of against Dalinar using the blade (aside from the extracanonical one that giving him a Surge he's not 'supposed' to have would somewhat complicate our learning about Bondsmiths and their powers and it seems too early for Brandon to throw that sort of mixing of powers in) is that the Stormfather storming told him 'You will be a Radiant with no shards'. He specifically told him he wouldn't become a Blade for Dalinar's use and commaned him to get rid of the dead Blade he was currently bonded to. Now, you can argue that an Honorblade is a different beast and wouldn't fall under the Stormfather's prohibition but that kind of hair-splitting that would violate the spirit of Dalinar's promise while technically upholding the letter of it (you said Shardblade but this is an Honorblade) seems like it would be out of character.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

1 minute ago, Weltall said:

Now, you can argue that an Honorblade is a different beast and wouldn't fall under the Stormfather's prohibition but that kind of hair-splitting that would violate the spirit of Dalinar's promise while technically upholding the letter of it (you said Shardblade but this is an Honorblade) seems like it would be out of character.

I suppose that's a valid point, even though I feel that Honor's Shadow might be willing to allow it because he'd know what it is and what it meant. The Dawnshards might be lost, but an Honorblade has been recovered, and every advantage counts this time around.

A third option is that Dalinar becomes the "stays at the Circle of Thrones in Urithiru" Bondsmith, much to my personal dismay, as I'd quite like him to stay in the field, even as a military strategist rather than a warrior. Still, a viewpoint exploring both his powers and Urithiru could prove interesting in a few books depending on what secrets remain there/Heralds return there, so it's not all bad

[WhiteLeeopard she/her]

9 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

A third option is that Dalinar becomes the "stays at the Circle of Thrones in Urithiru" Bondsmith, much to my personal dismay, as I'd quite like him to stay in the field, even as a military strategist rather than a warrior. Still, a viewpoint exploring both his powers and Urithiru could prove interesting in a few books depending on what secrets remain there/Heralds return there, so it's not all bad

You never know where the paths may go, but at the moment there seems to be a good chance that if the Knight Radiants are being refounded with Dalinar at the center, he may eventually need to welcome, or at least come to an understanding with Szeth, specially as the skybreakers seem to be tagging along with him. Which if it happens will be huge regardless of where it happens. Also, Dalinar may not be too good in the battlefield, partly because he is after all not so young any more, and battle is the place for the young. But mainly because it would be too reminiscent of the Blackthorn. How can he refound an order based on honor, peace and respect when his allies will see only the bloodthirsty, ruthless, honorless Blackthorn when he is out fighting?

Regarding the Honorblade...I can't really think of a good candidate. Navani is as good as any, Elhokar might be an option if he could be trusted further than he could be thrown (without plate) .