Jump to content

Speculation on the importance of the color Red


Steeldancer

Recommended Posts

Ok this is my climatic post in a series of things which have discussed various manifestations of the color red in the Cosmere. We also know that the red eyes are a specific thing going on in the cosmere, but is NOT associated with any one shard. So far we have seen: 

1. The parshendi when they gain storm form, their eyes turn red. Now this may be because the stormspren is red, but it also might be this mysterious thing with the color red. Also, the spren who have been corrupted in Dalinars vision have red eyes, if I remember correctly.

2. The faceless immortals we see at the end of bands of mourning. This is interesting, because normal kandra do not have red eyes. We know virtually nothing about them, but it is certain that there is something going on here.

3. The Shades on threnody. These are also interesting, because normally their eyes are green. When they turn red, they become murderous. I think it may be possible that there is an actual change going on when the eyes turn red, a trigger for this mysterious eye thing perhaps, caused by the breaking of the simple rules. 

4. The mysterious red haze coming towards scadrial. I think this may just be red to be ominous, but at the same time it might mean something that could give us a clue about the color red. It's a shard, or so we guess (I can't remember if it has been confirmed).

5. Taln's Scar, or just the Scar. A belt of red stars which I find very suspicious. I currently am of the opinion that it has to do with adonalsium shattering there, and for some reason the released investiture caused a change. Such a shattering could not have done nothing to the area it occured in. Someone also noted that threnodys star is also kind of red, and we know ambition was wounded there. As for why other stars might not be red, I figure that because honors investiture was vented through the spren, and the dominion and devotion investiture got stuffed in the cognitive realm, that perhaps their investiture didn't get the chance to change the star colors. It isn't perfect, but I think it's a workable explanation. 

I think at this point that the red might be investiture that has INDEPENDENTLY developed intelligence, rather than being a cognitive shadow. This is at least in the case of the eyes, although I would be happy if anyone else has other ideas. I think the red stars are from investiture from shards somehow changing the stars. I am very much against the idea that the fainlife changed the stars, simply because I still find the idea of a mold corrupting a star a little ridiculous. 

Overall, I think that the Red is not an accident. Perhaps there is a reason that odium is associated with red, despite it not being dependent on a single shard in all it's manifestations. I would love to hear any more thoughts anybody has about the color red and what it might be representative of. Oh and here is the WoB:

Are all the red-eyed characters influenced by the same shard?  No, but the red is significant.  (it has meaning in the cosmere)

Edited by The Flash
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been thinking about this too, for some time now. I have no idea what it could mean, but there is this WoB:

Quote

Q: Are all the red-eyed characters influenced by the same shard? 

A: No, but the red is significant.  (it has meaning in the cosmere)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The red hair of the Royal Locks in Warbreaker shows up on the sisters to represent temper/anger/frustration. That one might not be quite as significant to this theory, but it's still along the theme of red = anger or something similar. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Brgst13 said:

 For example, the Parshendi (connected to Honor) get red eyes when Odium influences them.

The Listeners are not directly connected to any particular Shards. They predate the Shard's existence by a decent amount of time. Meaning that by your logic they would have red eyes even if Honor was directly controlling them. I like the idea for that specific reason, but I'm not sure it fits for the Shades.

Edited by The One Who Connects
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have any solid theories on the red. But we know specific colors can be related to certain Shards.

Quote

THOUGHT

It seems that certain colors and numbers appear frequently in specific cosmere books, like the number 5 in Warbreaker or red and blue in Elantris. Do these colors or numbers happen to refer to a specific shard, and if so, would they be consistent across the cosmere?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Certain colors and numbers are important in reference to certain shards.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Brgst13 said:

I think the red color results when a being is controlled by a Shard they are not Connected to.  For example, the Parshendi (connected to Honor) get red eyes when Odium influences them.

Parshendi are also connected to Odium.

 

6 hours ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

Maybe red just means corrupted?

Although I like the idea that all the red/corruption in the Cosmere is unknowingly growing/powering some greater big bad, something akin to your idea of investiture that has developed independent intelligence.

Relevant WoB:

INTERVIEW: Apr 8th, 2016

BLIGHTSONG

How does corrupted investiture work, like Nightblood?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Oh, Nightblood. Again, this is a definition of what somebody feels is a corruption. For instance, there are spren people would feel are corrupted. But that is corruption where the mixing of different shards has changed things, and I think a lot of times when people say corruption, people are meaning the mixing of shards powers.

BLIGHTSONG

So is there a mixing of shards power with Nightblood?

BRANDON SANDERSON

*smirks* RAFO. That's the natural question, I'm glad you asked it.

BLIGHTSONG

Ok, uhhh, so something similar is happening with Gavilar's sphere, right?

BRANDON SANDERSON

*contemplative silence*, RAFO.

BLIGHTSONG

Uhhh, if anyone else has questions, speak up (I started running out of questions at this point).

BRANDON SANDERSON

Question over here!

 

10 hours ago, The Flash said:

Ok this is my climatic post in a series of things which have discussed various manifestations of the color red in the Cosmere. We also know that the red eyes are a specific thing going on in the cosmere, but is NOT associated with any one shard. So far we have seen: 

1. The parshendi when they gain storm form, their eyes turn red. Now this may be because the stormspren is red, but it also might be this mysterious thing with the color red. Also, the spren who have been corrupted in Dalinars vision have red eyes, if I remember correctly.

2. The faceless immortals we see at the end of bands of mourning. This is interesting, because normal kandra do not have red eyes. We know virtually nothing about them, but it is certain that there is something going on here.

3. The Shades on threnody. These are also interesting, because normally their eyes are green. When they turn red, they become murderous. I think it may be possible that there is an actual change going on when the eyes turn red, a trigger for this mysterious eye thing perhaps, caused by the breaking of the simple rules. 

4. The mysterious red haze coming towards scadrial. I think this may just be red to be ominous, but at the same time it might mean something that could give us a clue about the color red. It's a shard, or so we guess (I can't remember if it has been confirmed).

5. Taln's Scar, or just the Scar. A belt of red stars which I find very suspicious. I currently am of the opinion that it has to do with adonalsium shattering there, and for some reason the released investiture caused a change. Such a shattering could not have done nothing to the area it occured in. Someone also noted that threnodys star is also kind of red, and we know ambition was wounded there. As for why other stars might not be red, I figure that because honors investiture was vented through the spren, and the dominion and devotion investiture got stuffed in the cognitive realm, that perhaps their investiture didn't get the chance to change the star colors. It isn't perfect, but I think it's a workable explanation. 

I think at this point that the red might be investiture that has INDEPENDENTLY developed intelligence, rather than being a cognitive shadow. This is at least in the case of the eyes, although I would be happy if anyone else has other ideas. I think the red stars are from investiture from shards somehow changing the stars. I am very much against the idea that the fainlife changed the stars, simply because I still find the idea of a mold corrupting a star a little ridiculous. 

Overall, I think that the Red is not an accident. Perhaps there is a reason that odium is associated with red, despite it not being dependent on a single shard in all it's manifestations. I would love to hear any more thoughts anybody has about the color red and what it might be representative of. 

As for this idea, im partial to the idea that red is associated with something having a destructive intent. There isnt much to support this toehr then all the examples you mentioned being pretty evil.

Regardless, through a Realmatics lens, im very much sure that a color would not associate with with something just because of how its created. Colors, sounds, and patterns pertain to the Cognitive realm (As they are how we perceive things) much more then the spiritual realm (A place where sound and light dont exist as we think of them), and something gaining consciousness is a very spiritual process.

@Andy92's point points towards my theory a bit as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Extesian said:

I don't have any solid theories on the red. But we know specific colors can be related to certain Shards.

 

Yes, the important thing is that red eyes are not associated with a single shard. I think it's possible that this might be true corruption, rather than the mixed shard power we see in Nightblood. Although it is interesting that the corrupted spren are mixed powers... And they have red eyes. How much do we know about Threnody? Is there any evidence AT ALL of another shard ever investing there besides ambition? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, john203 said:

spiked shades with Trellium to give them physical form, and that is why the eyes are red.

Unfortunately, no. The withering touch of a Shade will turn someone into a Shade, and those more than likely still have red eyes when enraged.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could red have anything to do with Adonalsium's opposite (as confirmed by WoB)?  I mean, since the God Beyond created everything, presumably his opposite would seek to undo what he did and destroy everything.  I mean, putting it that way makes this other force seem like a buffed up ruin, which is kinda repetitive.  Still, thought I'd throw it out there

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, ILuvHats said:

Could red have anything to do with Adonalsium's opposite (as confirmed by WoB)?  I mean, since the God Beyond created everything, presumably his opposite would seek to undo what he did and destroy everything.  I mean, putting it that way makes this other force seem like a buffed up ruin, which is kinda repetitive.  Still, thought I'd throw it out there

 

Adonalsium does not have an opposite, the WoB stated that he has a force opposing him but Brandon later clarified by saying that he would count groups of people as a force opposing Adonalsium (like the people who killed him). We looked way to hard into that first WoB and that misconception has been rampant ever since.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just for ease of reference, the relevant WoBs (largely) dispelling the anti-adonalsium idea.

Quote

QUESTION

Was the shattering of Adonalsium done, for the forces to attack the Anti-Adonalsium?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You’re focusing too much on the idea of the anti-adonalsium. What was really asked is “is there a force that opposes Adonalsium” and it left me a lot of wiggle room. In other words, the people who killed it was a force, or any person who opposed Adonalsium you could say is a force. What they were trying to get was a “devil” but that assumes Adonalsium is a more Christian-style God, and I have not confirmed any of that.
Quote

QUESTION

You mention that, before the shattering, there was a force opposing Adonalsium. Was it an entity like Adonalsium?

BRANDON SANDERSON

He explain that they gave him to much wiggle room when the anti-Adonalsium question was made, explaining that is answer could mean that a group of people was against Adonalsium. But, for this question, we had to RAFO

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing comes to my mind. The only time we are given a perspective of someone with red eyes is Eshonai's chapters. And we know she is being controlled by something. Possessed. I think the red-eyed kandra might be possessed as well. I mean, why would the most devoted creature suddenly work against it's god? And I know this theory is imperfect, because kandra can always be bend to someone's will, but by "possessed" i mean, there is a separate being within their bodies, just like there is a spren in Eshonai's. 

And then, Shades could work this way as well. We have a cognitive shadow - a soul replaced with investiture - that happens all over cosmere, and we have something merging with it, taking control of it when it becomes angry. 

That is just a speculation, but i guess we can't have much more in this thread right now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, strumienpola said:

One thing comes to my mind. The only time we are given a perspective of someone with red eyes is Eshonai's chapters. And we know she is being controlled by something. Possessed. I think the red-eyed kandra might be possessed as well. I mean, why would the most devoted creature suddenly work against it's god? And I know this theory is imperfect, because kandra can always be bend to someone's will, but by "possessed" i mean, there is a separate being within their bodies, just like there is a spren in Eshonai's. 

And then, Shades could work this way as well. We have a cognitive shadow - a soul replaced with investiture - that happens all over cosmere, and we have something merging with it, taking control of it when it becomes angry. 

That is just a speculation, but i guess we can't have much more in this thread right now. 

Invested possession. Interesting idea. Although I sort of thought the facless immortals were new ones, not regular ones changed into agents of trell. Which sounds like a really stupid show. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Yata said:

Maybe It's connected to be a foreign Splinter and the workaround needed to leave your own place

I like the idea @strumienpola, and I like this refinement of it Yata. Though  wouldn't that be a problem with Vasher not having redness? (Or have I just betrayed realmatic ignorance by thinking a cognitive shadow is also a splinter?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Extesian said:

I like the idea @strumienpola, and I like this refinement of it Yata. Though  wouldn't that be a problem with Vasher not having redness? (Or have I just betrayed realmatic ignorance by thinking a cognitive shadow is also a splinter?)

Indeed you have right, I didn't considerate Vasher. But to keep the possibility, He is suppressing his Divine Breath, so it's possible he doesn't show off nothing strange (also the Radiants who recive Eye alteration form their bond are not always in a eyes alterated state

PS: Cognitive Shadows are not stricly speaking Splinters (I tend to equiparate them because regard of the name, they are mostly the same things rather than their origins), but it's not really relevant here...because Vasher is a Cognitive Shadow with an Endowment Splinter in him.

Edited by Yata
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Yata said:

Indeed you have right, I didn't considerate Vasher. But to keep the possibility, He is suppressing his Divine Breath, so it's possible he doesn't show off nothing strange (also the Radiants who recive Eye alteration form their bond are not always in a eyes alterated state

PS: Cognitive Shadow are not stricly speaking Splinters, but it's not really relevant here...because Vasher is a Cognitive Shadow with an Endowment Splinter in him.

Yeah suppression could be the reason.  I would like it to be simply because I like that idea, it's elegant. (And yeah i didn't mean to imply all cognitive shadows are splinters, just that in the case of the Returned they are).

As a compromise, perhaps rather than being a splinter off-world, it could be a person (anywhere) who has a splinter in them that is from a different Shard to the one they were connected to by birth. Matches the possession idea and the mixing (corruption) of Shards.  I haven't brain stormed it to think of problems with the idea though. But it would explain shades (Ambition isn't native to their system), the faceless immortals (assuming they've been Trell-spiked), the Parshendi (Odium isn't native to their system - they don't have red eyes when bonded to native spren but do with voidspren; I wonder if they also would if bonded  to Honor/Cultivation spren).

Edited by Extesian
Additional thought
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem here is that no shard is native of any system. Odium is on Great Roshar system from so long to be connected with their inhabitants.

The same thing (in theory) if Ambition's power is responsable from the Shades. His power on that planet from so long to be Invested into it.

In the end this is not so different than Endowment and Nalthis for example.

I think we need to considerate this better. I considerated also the "possession" regardless the source, but Koloss aren't red eyes (the Inquisitor and Kandra are hardly an example for this)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Darkness said:

are the evil seons (skaze?) red?

The bonus scene from the 10th Aniversary version of Elantris describes them thus:

Quote

a hovering dark sphere, about the size of a melon. It somehow sucked in the light, and didn’t have distinct edges Hoid could make out—it just kind of blended out into the air, warping everything around it like a stone dropped onto a sheet of silk stretched tight. It was ringed with a pattern of misty symbols—they ran like a hoop from its top, around the side, to the bottom, then back up to the top.

So no, they're not red.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...