Tashi has no pancake?

[Farnsworth]

Originally I was trying to figure out which pancake was for witch herald, but I gave up. However, I still want to figure out why Tashi doesn't have one. If I were a herald with no pancake, I would be pretty mad.

[Ecthelion III]

Waffles = Scadrial

Pancakes = Roshar

French Toast = ???

[Amanuensis]

If I had to guess, Teshi is Taln, since he was the one Herald who died in the last Desolation.

[Zea mays]

Poor Taln. Tortured for several thousand years and he doesn't even get a pancake.

 

Lift needs to go find him and give him a hug.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Zea mays

[Jondesu]

11 hours ago, Zea mays said:

Poor Taln. Tortured for several thousand years and he doesn't even get a pancake.

 

Lift needs to go find him and give him a hug.

She is supposed to remember those who have been forgotten, neh?

[Releaser]

On 11/25/2016 at 8:19 AM, Amanuensis said:

If I had to guess, Teshi is Taln, since he was the one Herald who died in the last Desolation.

I am actually very curious who Tashi is because of what Darkness said. 

 

This thread isn't marked with spoilers so I'll tag this quote:

Spoiler

"Tashi doesn't care much for what you do here," Darkness said as he walked away. "In fact, I'd pray that he doesn't reach your city, as I doubt you'd like the consequences ..."

Makes me think Tashi is not Taln. My personal pet theory is that Tashi is currently the god-king of Tukari. Who is probably a former Herald, probably the Herald Jezrien. (as I am in the camp of those heralds that stayed have all become the opposite of what they stood for. Ten Heralds now equal the Ten Fools)

[djammmer]

23 hours ago, ZenBossanova said:

 

On November 26, 2016 at 0:47 PM, Releaser said:

 

  Hide contents

"Tashi doesn't care much for what you do here," Darkness said as he walked away. "In fact, I'd pray that he doesn't reach your city, as I doubt you'd like the consequences ..."

 (as I am in the camp of those heralds that stayed have all become the opposite of what they stood for. Ten Heralds now equal the Ten Fools)

I love this theory!!  10 heralds = 10 fools!?!?!?

[ZenBossanova]

1 minute ago, djammmer said:

 

I love this theory!!  10 heralds = 10 fools!?!?!?

9 fools currently

[Amanuensis]

On 11/26/2016 at 3:47 PM, Releaser said:

 

 

I am actually very curious who Tashi is because of what Darkness said. 

 

This thread isn't marked with spoilers so I'll tag this quote:

  Hide contents

 

 

"Tashi doesn't care much for what you do here," Darkness said as he walked away. "In fact, I'd pray that he doesn't reach your city, as I doubt you'd like the consequences ..."

Makes me think Tashi is not Taln. My personal pet theory is that Tashi is currently the god-king of Tukari. Who is probably a former Herald, probably the Herald Jezrien. (as I am in the camp of those heralds that stayed have all become the opposite of what they stood for. Ten Heralds now equal the Ten Fools)

Hm. I actually chalk that up to Nale not being aware that Taln has returned. I believe that he's saying that because if "Tashi" did appear, it would mean a Desolation would be beginning, which we know he doesn't believe. Plus I'm pretty confident Tashikk already calls Jezrien Yaezer.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Argent]

16 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

Hm. I actually chalk that up to Nale not being aware that Taln has returned. I believe that he's saying that because if "Tashi" did appear, it would mean a Desolation would be beginning, which we know he doesn't believe. Plus I'm pretty confident Tashikk already calls Jezrien Yaezer.

I think interpreting Nale's words like this requires some mental gymnastics. He specifically says that they wouldn't like it if he reached their city - there is a level of specificity here that doesn't match (at least in my mind) what you would expect if he meant "if he comes back". 

As for Jezrien = Yaezir, this is all but confirmed.

[Amanuensis]

15 minutes ago, Argent said:

 

 

 

I think interpreting Nale's words like this requires some mental gymnastics. He specifically says that they wouldn't like it if he reached their city - there is a level of specificity here that doesn't match (at least in my mind) what you would expect if he meant "if he comes back". 

As for Jezrien = Yaezir, this is all but confirmed.

Mental gymnastics are definitely required. But if we assume that the pancakes match the ten Heralds, I can't really think of a logical reason for any other of the males to be missing one. We know it's not Jezrien because he's Yaezir. We know it's not Nale because he's the one talking about him. That leaves Kalak, Ishar and Taln. Although a significant amount of time has passed between the WoK Prologue and now, I doubt Kalak has a reputation among the Heralds of bringing with him dire consequences. He's the Herald who drools now, though, isn't he? So maybe his pancake is missing because his "head" isn't "all there."  Ishar is a distinct possibility, now that I think about it, since there's some good reasons to believe he's doing something sinister, although I find it odd that Nale would actively make that implication about the man who seems to be guiding his work. Plus, like Jezrien and Yaezir are very similar sounding, Ishar and Tashi bare some significant resemblance. The question then would be why is his pancake missing?

Hm. So I just looked back at the quote where the scribes talk about the tenth pancake, and this is what it says.

Spoiler

 

 

 

"The tenth is dedicated to Tashi," the scribe said absently as she wrote. "It is more a thought than a real entity. We bake nine, and leave the last in memory of Him."

Emphasis mine.

This is why Taln was my immediate thought. This statement pretty heavily implies Tashi is dead (or, in Taln's case, gone). Which matches my interpretation of Nale's words, as oblique as it is.

 

Also, this has got me really looking forward to a scene where Taln and Nale meet up again.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Argent]

33 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

That leaves Kalak, Ishar and Taln. Although a significant amount of time has passed between the WoK Prologue and now, I doubt Kalak has a reputation among the Heralds of bringing with him dire consequences. He's the Herald who drools now, though, isn't he?

My impression was that most people like Jezrien for the guy Szeth briefly speaks with before he goes off to assassinate Gavilar, while Kalak is assumed to be Nale's sidekick we see a couple of times. I may be out of touch with those theories though.

As for who Tashi might be, I think it depends heavily on which data points you weigh more. From the lore's point of view, Taln makes more sense - he is very much the "odd one out" of the Heralds. From the way Nale speaks of him, it could be any one of the others (except for maybe Jezrien). 

I think I need to reevaluate my stance on this though, the evidence for Taln makes more sense to me now. I still don't like how Nale talks about him though, it feels weird.

[Amanuensis]

22 minutes ago, Argent said:

 

 

 

My impression was that most people like Jezrien for the guy Szeth briefly speaks with before he goes off to assassinate Gavilar, while Kalak is assumed to be Nale's sidekick we see a couple of times. I may be out of touch with those theories though.

As for who Tashi might be, I think it depends heavily on which data points you weigh more. From the lore's point of view, Taln makes more sense - he is very much the "odd one out" of the Heralds. From the way Nale speaks of him, it could be any one of the others (except for maybe Jezrien). 

I think I need to reevaluate my stance on this though, the evidence for Taln makes more sense to me now. I still don't like how Nale talks about him though, it feels weird.

This is pretty off-topic, buuut this prompted to look at that passage from the Jasnah Prologue, and it's pretty clear that Nale is talking to Kalak. He's concerned about Ash and is upset that Szeth possesses the Honorblade of the Windrunners (Jezrien's). I also suspect the reason why Jezrien is at the Beggar's Feast is because Kalak appears to be his caretaker (after he presumably became an alcoholic / insane). Sorry about diverting the conversation here, but I just found this interesting and wanted to write it out.

This did at least confirm Tashi isn't any of those three, though now that I think about it Ishar is a possibility, based off of Naln's comment. Given he is the Herald of Luck, maybe he's somehow became incredibly unlucky since (perhaps by approaching the Nightwatcher?) and now brings disaster wherever he goes?

Edited November 28, 2016 by Amanuensis

[Garglemesh]

On 11/26/2016 at 1:47 PM, Releaser said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

"Tashi doesn't care much for what you do here," Darkness said as he walked away. "In fact, I'd pray that he doesn't reach your city, as I doubt you'd like the consequences ..."

Makes me think Tashi is not Taln. My personal pet theory is that Tashi is currently the god-king of Tukari. Who is probably a former Herald, probably the Herald Jezrien. (as I am in the camp of those heralds that stayed have all become the opposite of what they stood for. Ten Heralds now equal the Ten Fools)

I can't figure out how to delete hidden stuff on mobile. Oh well. 

This Ten Fool theory is interesting. It looks like Kaladin has done us the favor of describing one Fool per book. In WoK, it's Cabine:

Quote

Kal leaned back, breathing in and out. He felt like one of the ten fools—specifically Cabine, who acted like a child though he was adult.

In WoR, it's Eshu:

Quote

But most specifically Eshu, who spoke of things he did not understand in front of those who did.

This second one, Eshu, sure sounds like Nale going off about preventing voidbringers from returning in front of Szeth, who reassures him that they already have.

Shallan and Adolin both feel like one of the ten fools when convincing Tvlakv to help her and fighting four shardbearers, respectively. Dunno if that's "I feel real stupid right now" talk or actual "I feel like this guy/girl right now but that's obvious so no need to point it out specifically". There are other references, but Kaladin gives it to us nice and straight. Anyway. Fun thought. We'll see who Kaladin teaches us about next time.

[Betrail]

Waita second could the pancake not have been make for the cognitive realm. As it was described as it is thought to be made for that.

If he is in the cognitive realm or at least able to visit... He could be surviving off of pancakes alone!

[Vissy]

Cognitive pancakes sounds like a legitimate enterprise. Should ask Khriss about those.

[Pagerunner]

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 6:55 PM, Garglemesh said:

I can't figure out how to delete hidden stuff on mobile. Oh well. 

This Ten Fool theory is interesting. It looks like Kaladin has done us the favor of describing one Fool per book. In WoK, it's Cabine:

In WoR, it's Eshu:

This second one, Eshu, sure sounds like Nale going off about preventing voidbringers from returning in front of Szeth, who reassures him that they already have.

Shallan and Adolin both feel like one of the ten fools when convincing Tvlakv to help her and fighting four shardbearers, respectively. Dunno if that's "I feel real stupid right now" talk or actual "I feel like this guy/girl right now but that's obvious so no need to point it out specifically". There are other references, but Kaladin gives it to us nice and straight. Anyway. Fun thought. We'll see who Kaladin teaches us about next time.

I think we need to look a little bigger-picture to connect Heralds to Fools. The Fools are the antithesis of the Heralds' ideals, and Nale's behavior isn't necessarily counter to his ideals (or at least the ones connected to the Divine Attributes of his row in the Ars Arcana table). I'd connect Eshu to Battar (Wise/Careful). I don't see anything as clear to connect Cabine to anyone, although it does maybe make me think of Jezrien. 

[dionysus]

On 11/30/2016 at 8:25 PM, Betrail said:

Waita second could the pancake not have been make for the cognitive realm. As it was described as it is thought to be made for that.

If he is in the cognitive realm or at least able to visit... He could be surviving off of pancakes alone!

I think it could fit into realmatics that the cognitive pancakes these well wishers create somehow do strengthen Taln in his torture since we believe he is tortured in the cognitive. I kind of see it as a joke Brandon is making that actually works in this crazy system he has created.

To explain further, strong ideas held by sapient beings manifest eventually in Shadesmar. A lot of well wishes thus should somehow manifest in Shadesmar. Taln I think is in Shadesmar prior to returning, so this tradition may actually somehow help him. They make physical pancakes for the Heralds that didn't die and who are in the physical, and cognitive pancakes for the one left to shoulder the burden in the cognitive.

Edited December 15, 2016 by dionysus

[Vissy]

I like how cognitive pancakes is now used unironically.

[dionysus]

We know Brandon likes to play with his hardcore fans. I mean we have the great shardfork.

[What's a Seawolf?]

My initial reaction upon reading was that the pancakes were just another in world representation of the heralds and the 'missing' pancake represented the one herald who died, or is currently 'missing' from the world.  (Pre-recent events.)

However, to throw something completely random out there not backed by anything...

The 9 pancakes are for the 9 Unmade (not sure if that number is confirmed or not, but I've seen it tossed about a lot.)  'Tashi' represents Odium, who does not have a pancake because he is not an Unmade, but rather their creator/ruler.  And besides, who would give Odium a pancake?  (Lift doesn't count.)

[DarkJester]

Ok. Spren are just ideas given form right? (I know... that's a very simplistic way of explaining it...) Anywho... after so many years of having the "idea" of a tenth pancake for Tashi, wouldn't it actually have a spren, or at least a representation in the cognitive realm? If soooooo... Lift could actually touch it and probably eat it... 

[Exalted]

On 12/28/2016 at 1:10 PM, What's a Seawolf? said:

My initial reaction upon reading was that the pancakes were just another in world representation of the heralds and the 'missing' pancake represented the one herald who died, or is currently 'missing' from the world.  (Pre-recent events.)

However, to throw something completely random out there not backed by anything...

The 9 pancakes are for the 9 Unmade (not sure if that number is confirmed or not, but I've seen it tossed about a lot.)  'Tashi' represents Odium, who does not have a pancake because he is not an Unmade, but rather their creator/ruler.  And besides, who would give Odium a pancake?  (Lift doesn't count.)

Except Yaezir has pretty much been confirmed to be Jezrien, so they're most likely Heralds. I like the thought, though!

On 12/28/2016 at 6:02 PM, DarkJester said:

Ok. Spren are just ideas given form right? (I know... that's a very simplistic way of explaining it...) Anywho... after so many years of having the "idea" of a tenth pancake for Tashi, wouldn't it actually have a spren, or at least a representation in the cognitive realm? If soooooo... Lift could actually touch it and probably eat it... 

So...pancakespren? Lift would love that...