The Art of Game Creation

[xinoehp512 he/him]

Why did you redo the actions for every single person? Almost all of them are the same. You could just condense them and list the exceptions.

[Snipexe he/him]

9 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

Why did you redo the actions for every single person? Almost all of them are the same. You could just condense them and list the exceptions.

The ways of the Snip are mysterious and unknowable (and I didn’t think of it )

17 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

To accomplish a mirror victory, all nine villagers grab a mirror D1 or D2 depending on which room they start out in, move outside as quickly as possible, and then have everyone start spamming the mirror action D2/D3. There's no reason for an active player to eat or drink unless they plan to stay up at night, so those methods of murder are out. That leaves revolver if the killer is Philip, hypodermic needle if the killer is Dr. Armstrong, and rock for everyone else(unless the killer's traps can catch those who go to sleep at night, in which case anyone can kill). Regardless, the village can lynch the same player over and over again, and the killer won't be able to kill everyone else fast enough unless 'three actions per cycle' means 'the killer can attack three different people every night'. In that case, the village actually would need to kill/permalynch the killer in order to win.

You are very correct in your analysis. On the revolver note, I forgot that I was planning on having the lynchee’s items distributed randomly among those who voted on them.

The Mirror victory was something that I was worried someone would figure out how to break. I added it in sort of last minute, and I should have thought it through more. There are 2 ways I think I could fix it. 1. Extend the number of cycles that it takes inorder to complete this wincon. 2. Change how the insanity works. I think if I got rid of the bonuses that people get from submitting actions, it could potentially work to stop this way of winning to work. (Marston would just relieve the benefits I had planned for everyone to receive as his new abilities.) There is of course a 3rd option of just taking it out of the game entirely, but my worry was the if the killer got access to the revolver then it would be nearly impossible for the village to win. The killer cannot attack 3 people every night, as movement is separate from actions, the 3 people would have to be in the same room. The only way for the killer to multiple kills would be to either set many traps which would require at least a full cycle of preparation, or to kill the Rogers at the same time.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

1 minute ago, Snipexe said:

1. Extend the number of cycles that it takes inorder to complete this wincon

I don't like this idea.

Maybe instead if X or more people signal for 5 cycles all at the same time, it doesn't work?  Because the mainland people think that if there's multiple, it must be a fluke???

[Snipexe he/him]

40 minutes ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Maybe instead if X or more people signal for 5 cycles all at the same time, it doesn't work?  Because the mainland people think that if there's multiple, it must be a fluke???

I do like this idea, but I still think it could come with the same issues Devotary mentioned. The Killer won’t be able to drop the number of people low enough quickly enough if the number is too low. If the wincon was changed to this method then I would go with 3 people, maybe 4, it just depends on if the killer is smart/effective.

How many people would you have?

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

I don't know, but the REAL thing this change does is play into suspicion.  The village would want to have as many people signalling as possible, but the killer could have said they weren't signalling and actually signal, messing up the wincon, or kill the people who are signalling.

I would suggest one or two.

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

Redistributing items among everyone who voted for that person, as well as ensuring that the revolver cannot leave the game through death of it's owner(it's always the one item that isn't destroyed) would solve the revolver issue. Even if the killer ended up with the revolver, the village could recover it by lynching the killer.

The mirror victory seems like the type of mechanic to use if the game stalls due to lack of kills, rather than the village's best chance to win. It's also boring to have all the villagers stand outside and take the same action every cycle. Perhaps the village could auto-win if they survive until cycle X, probably 8-10? If the game is expected to go on that long with 48 hour cycles, then this is an MR despite its low number of players.

If you want insanity to be a serious threat instead of a long term inactivity filter, enough that someone might be tempted to eat or drink, eliminating the sanity bonus for sleep and actions should be sufficient. Every cycle, each villager gains 20% insanity, or 15% if they vote, and will die by the end of the seventh cycle unless they eat/drink/read.

[The Young Pyromancer he/him]

I think insanity isn't really meant to be a threat unless you stay up at night.  Which is fine, as the choice of whether to stay up or not seems like one of the main strategy points in this game.

[Snipexe he/him]

On 2/20/2019 at 10:05 PM, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Redistributing items among everyone who voted for that person, as well as ensuring that the revolver cannot leave the game through death of it's owner(it's always the one item that isn't destroyed) would solve the revolver issue. Even if the killer ended up with the revolver, the village could recover it by lynching the killer.

The mirror victory seems like the type of mechanic to use if the game stalls due to lack of kills, rather than the village's best chance to win. It's also boring to have all the villagers stand outside and take the same action every cycle. Perhaps the village could auto-win if they survive until cycle X, probably 8-10? If the game is expected to go on that long with 48 hour cycles, then this is an MR despite its low number of players.

If you want insanity to be a serious threat instead of a long term inactivity filter, enough that someone might be tempted to eat or drink, eliminating the sanity bonus for sleep and actions should be sufficient. Every cycle, each villager gains 20% insanity, or 15% if they vote, and will die by the end of the seventh cycle unless they eat/drink/read.

 

3 hours ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

I think insanity isn't really meant to be a threat unless you stay up at night.  Which is fine, as the choice of whether to stay up or not seems like one of the main strategy points in this game.

The insanity is intended as both an inactivity filter, and as way to balance the ability to stay up at night.

In regards to the mirror victory, I think I could change it to a combination of both, in that you have to be outside signaling for like 8 cycles straight or something. The issue is that it still allows for a mass mirror spam at the start of the game. At this point I am really tempted to just remove it, as the mirrors can still be used to create pms, and maybe replace it with the auto win. I would still like to think of a better solution if possible, and I’m very open to suggestions.

I would probably run the game with 48 hr days, 24 hr nights, but I would like to keep the number of people playing at 10, so if I had to drop the length of cycle in order to keep it a QF I would be fine with it. 

[CadCom he/him]

I've posted my idea for this game before, but now I am working on getting it ready to be approved, to hopefullly run this in the future. I've changed the format somewhat so that it's not too short to even be run as a QF, and I'll post the not secret part here, because I am looking for feedback on balancing this portion of the game. The remaining portions will be discussed with people on the committee who approves the games after I've finished creating them, but prior to me actually running the game.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Spoiler

Mistborn: The Rebellion
Now or Never

Cycle/Game length:

Spoiler

 

24 hour night.

48 hour day

After that point, it will change into a typical game, determined by who wins the Night-One portion of the game. (This additional format of game is still being worked on, and will remain secret until the moment it is put in place)

 

Game mechanics: 

Spoiler

 

There will be 3 more roles than there are number of players. Roles will be distributed randomly. There will then be one night cycle, where most actions will take place, and one day cycle where voting will occur. Because some roles change the role and alignment of other players, players may believe that they are one role, however, in reality, they are another.

The action that you will perform will be based off your role at the beginning of the night cycle, not based on the role you have at the end of the game.

The player(s) with the most votes wil die. Alternatively, players may choose to do a “circle vote” where all players receive one vote, and no one dies.

The Village team only wins if at least one eliminator is killed

The Elim team only wins if no ministry workers are killed

There are also a few neutral roles that may affect the victory for either team.

If there are more or less players than there are roles, then some roles may be duplicated, and some vanilla village players may be added, or removed by discretion of the GM based on what they think would keep the game most fair prior to role assignment. Players will be informed which roles are in play.

 

Teams

Spoiler

 

Steel Ministry: These are the Eliminators. They do get to know who the other members are at the beginning of the night, but, they do NOT get a Doc to conspire in at this time.

     Leader of the Ministry

     Ministry Seeker

     Ministry Workers

     Kandra Spy

 

Rebels: This is the village team. They do not get to know who each other are

     Matchmaker

     Seeker

     Informant

     Spiked

     Hemalurgist

     Hemalurgic Troublemaker

     Tineye

     Oracle

     Confused Kandra

 

Neutral/Other Roles

     Lerasium spiked

     Rogue Hazekiller

     Kelsier

     Lovers

 

Order of actions

Spoiler

 

Lerasium-spiked(Starts out Village): May choose to find out another person’s role at the beginning of the cycle, if they do so, they will become a copy of that role (His new role will be informed to him as soon as possible, and will be performed simultaneously or immediately after the original role performs the role)(It is not guaranteed that the new role will be able to be used if this player does not put in a request early in the turn, due to the cycle ending, and GM not having time to provide new role)

Matchmaker(Village): May Choose two players at random to be lovers. Lovers will be informed at the beginning of the Day cycle who their lover is, but they will not be given any way to communicate.

Leader of the Ministry(elim): May convert one player to join the ministry. That player’s role is now Ministry Worker. The rest of the ministry does not know who this person is, and that person will be aware that they have become converted, but will not be told who the remainder of his teammates are. Their role becomes another unused role.

Ministry Seeker(Elim): May scan to confirm role of one player or one unused role

Seeker(Village): May scan one other player or one of the unused roles.

Informant(Village): May scan the role of one other player. If that player is not in the Ministry, the role is revealed in the write-up.

Confused Kandra(Starts out Village) The confused Kandra may submit a list of up to 2 other players, in a specific order. They are informed of those Player’s roles. If either player is Kelsier, or a Ministry Worker, The Kandra becomes a copy of that role. If the first player they chose to view was one of these roles, they don’t get to view the second player. This means that the confused Kandra may change alignments.

Spiked(village): May spike another player, and himself, and swap roles with that player. The Spiked will be informed of his new role. The other person will not be informed of the change

Hemalurgist(village): May swap one person’s role for one of the unused roles

Hemalurgic troublemaker(Village): May choose to spike two people other than themselves, and swap their roles. Neither will be informed of the swap

Tineye(Village): May scan a player to see if any actions have been performed by that player. The role will not be revealed.

Rogue Hazekiller(Neutral): During the night phase, this player may choose another player as a target. This player can only win this wincon, if that player is lynched.  Your target will be notified that they are the target.

Drunk(Village) Your role will be switched with one of the unclaimed roles You will not know your new role.

Oracle(Village) At the end of the night, they will be informed what their current role is. 

Other Roles(inherent abilities, No night actions)

Other ministry workers(elim): All ministry workers will know the who the other ministry workers are. It will not be revealed who is the ministry seeker, or who is the leader of the ministry. No doc will be provided for them to communicate in, however all night actions will be put in blindly, without communication with other Ministry workers.(Between 20-33% of the possible roles will be Elim roles. The more players, the lower the percentage, generally speaking.

Kandra spy(elim wincon-if lynched, acts as a village lynch): The Kandra spy is attempting to infiltrate the rebellion. This character wins if the Elims win. He will know who the Eliminators are, and will be given access to view the doc, but will not be able to speak in the doc, or reveal who he is there. If the Kandra dies, If he is lynched, it is as if a villager is lynched, and the Eliminators win.

Hazekiller(village): If a hazekiller is lynched, the person he is voting for is killed as well.

Kelsier(neutral): His goal is to sacrifice himself, to start a religion about him. He wins if he is lynched. If he is lynched, all others lose.

Lovers: Lovers gain a secondary wincon of making sure their partner survives. Both the individual primary and secondary wincon must be met in order for that player to win. If Lovers have separate alignments, then only one lover can win, but it is dependent on the other lover surviving. The exception to this is if one lover is Kelsier. Kelsier’s goal still is to be lynched.

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Cadmium Compounder

[Lumgol she/her]

Here's my hemalurgic conversion game! It will be an LG. It's slightly edited from my first version of it, and thanks to @Fifth Scholar for helping me create this game.

Basic rules:

Spoiler

 

Start out with 1 elim (the Inquisitor) who has a bunch of spikes. 7 of them, to be precise.

The elims have a team kill each night. During each kill, the Inquisitor can choose whether or not to charge a spike (and if so, which spike to charge). Once a spike is charged, it may be used to spike someone, thus converting them into an elim and granting them an ability.

Day and night cycles are 24 hours long each.

1 action per cycle. Voting does not count as an action. The elims' group kill does not count as an action, but must be submitted at night just like any action would. Charging a spike with the group kill uses an action. Spiking someone uses an action. Passive roles are always active and do not count as actions. Any roles marked "Day", "Night", or "Day OR Night" count as actions and are to be used during the specified times.

PM’s are closed, and the elims have a doc.

 

Spike rules:

Spoiler

 

The Inquisitor has 1 of each spike at the start of the game. An uncharged spike cannot be used to spike a player. Multiple spikes can be charged in a row before spiking someone, but no more than 1 spike can be charged or used to spike someone at a time.

There is no limit to how many spikes can be used on a player. However, a maximum of 3 players, excluding the Inquisitor, can be spiked. Having multiple roles does not grant a player extra actions. If an Allomancer is spiked, they retain their Allomantic powers as well as those granted by the spike.

If the Inquisitor is killed, all unused spikes are lost, regardless of whether or not they are charged. If a spiked player other than the Inquisitor is killed, the spike loses its charge but may be reused.

 

Spike roles: 

Spoiler

 

Iron - Gives the elim an extra life (passive)

Steel - The elim can choose 1 player. Actions against said player override a Lurcher's protection OR a Coinshot's redirection, with a 50% chance of success (Night)

Tin - The elim can use an action to scan someone and see what Allomantic powers they have, if any (Night)

Zinc - The elim has their votes count as 2 votes (Passive)

Copper - The elim can choose to nullify one vote on them as an action (effectively needing 1 more vote than normal to lynch them) (Day)

Bronze - if the person who is killed with the spike is a Misting, their role is transferred to the elim (Passive)

Atium - Replicate the effects of any one of the above spikes.

 

 

Allomancy:

Spoiler

 

Lurcher - Can prevent any one player, including themselves, from being killed OR spiked. If a Lurcher successfully prevents a kill that charges a spike, that spike is left uncharged. (Night)

Coinshot - Can redirect 1 kill action from that night, if any, onto a different player of their choice with a 50% chance of success (Night)

Thug - has an extra life (Passive)

Tineye - Can target a player and learn who they targeted that night, if anyone (Night)

Soother - Can suppress one person’s vote (Day)

Rioter - can double one person’s vote so that it counts as 2 votes (Day)

Seeker - Can choose a player and scan what metal their role is associated with, if any. This does not reveal their alignment or the nature of their metallic art. If someone is spiked with bronze, only the Allomantic metal that they stole will be revealed. If someone is spiked with Atium, the metal associated with the role they ended up receiving will be revealed. (Night) 

Smoker - Can prevent any player, including themselves, from the effects of Seeking, Soothing, and Rioting (Night, effects last the entire cycle)

Seer - Can target any player to nullify their action (Day OR Night)

 

Allomantic roles are randomly assigned at the start of the game.

P.S. Yes, I know that being spiked with tin does not actually grant Allomantic scanning powers. Don’t at me.

 

 

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

@Lumgol:

Will vote tallies reflect the changes due to vote manipulation? If so, village rioters may not consistently double-vote if they know that an elim with a zinc spike is forced to have their vote count double.

If an elim with an atium spike dies, can the Inquisitor choose a different power when it's reused? Would the second bearer of the iron spike still gain the extra life?

Until a steel elim can be created, the village has a 50% chance of blocking the kill by having the lurcher claim and a coinshot redirecting the kill to the lurcher every cycle. If a steel elim is created, attempts to kill or spike the lurcher will still only have a 50% chance of success.

If a misting is spiked with a metal other than bronze or atium, would a bronze scan only reveal their original role? What would be the results of scanning the Inquisitor?

If you're worried about the Inquisitor dying before being able to convert anyone, you could use an LG2 style mechanic where the Inquisitor starts out with all the spike abilities. If you allow atium to change abilities upon reuse, this could mean the Inquisitor starts out with three lives and has a good chance of converting someone unless they're lynched D1, successful coinshot trying to spike someone, then lynched again. To balance this out, iron and atium spikes could only ever grant one extra life.

[Lumgol she/her]

@Devotary of Spontaneity, these are really good questions.

The number of tallies in a vote will be reflected due to vote manipulation, but the names will stay anonymous, like so:

Player1 (4): Player2, Player3, Player4

So you'll know that one of the 3 players is a rioter or a zinc-spiked elim, but you wouldn't find out which.

An atium spike can have a different power when it's reused.

As for the lurcher and coinshot working together, that's something that I hadn't thought of before. This can be prevented by spiking or killing the lurcher (since they would claim). If this is still too overpowered for the village, I could make the Lurcher also have a 50% chance of success.

If a Misting is spiked, a bronze scan would reveal both metals that the player is associated, so they would be outed as an elim, but the Seeker wouldn't find out which metal is Allomantic and which one is a Spike.

The last 2 questions combined just gave me an idea. Having an Inquisitor who doesn't start out with any spikes makes no sense, but I don't want them to have all of the spike powers and lose them towards the end, or anything like that. So, I'll have the Inquisitor choose up to 2 spikes to start out with and have for the rest of the game. Choosing 2 spikes would make them vulnerable to bronze scans that expose them as having multiple powers and thus being an elim. However, 2 spikes = more fancy magical powers = good.

Scanning the Inquisitor wouldn't provide any results other than revealing the metal(s) that they spiked themselves with at the beginning.

[Elandera she/her]

I'm currently working on an Alcatraz themed game. I've been able to come up with good abilities for everyone/village roles, but I'm struggling to give balance toward the elims as well. Here's what I have so far. I'd like to get some input on possible roles/abilities for the elim team.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kYHoUiGam9IvSTRulJupBD2tb-5LO4mrN6L6W3WTUOE/edit?usp=sharing

General comments about balance are also very appreciated. Thanks!

EDIT: I forgot about Alivened, so I added a mechanic for that to the Elims.

Edited March 11, 2019 by Elandera

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

@Elandera

What actions specifically do the Windstormer's lenses block? Even if they can be removed with Voidstormer's lenses and Alcatraz's breaking ability, I'd still say the general invincibility is a bit too powerful to have in the hands of a provable safe role. Perhaps make it such that the owner has to submit an action to use the lens?

Can the disguiser's lens be used for a double-protect, where the person targeted by the disguiser is protected, ensuring that neither of them can die?

Having two shaper's lenses floating around from Aydee's ability combined with four confirmed safe roles, two of which(Alcatraz and Aydee) can easily prove themselves without too much fear of death, will make this game quite difficult for the elims. Maybe have a usage limitation for the shaper's lens, or have some elims that scan as village.

For the elims, you could include the other groups of librarians. Warden of the Standard scans as a villager, Order of the Shattered Lens can choose a certain number of times to destroy the lenses of the elim kill, Scrivener's Bones are not oculators but can forge new lenses for themselves from the blood of oculators, or other thematic abilities. The game will likely not have enough players to fit elims from all four factions and still have roleless elims though.

 

[Elandera she/her]

31 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

What actions specifically do the Windstormer's lenses block? Even if they can be removed with Voidstormer's lenses and Alcatraz's breaking ability, I'd still say the general invincibility is a bit too powerful to have in the hands of a provable safe role. Perhaps make it such that the owner has to submit an action to use the lens?

I could make it similar to the Voidstormer's lense, in that once it is used, it is dropped. That way one person can only use it once. Also making it a specific action would be good.

31 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Can the disguiser's lens be used for a double-protect, where the person targeted by the disguiser is protected, ensuring that neither of them can die?

No, it either protects the disguised in the even the disguised is attacked, or it will kill both if the person the disguised looks like is attacked. In a thematic sense, the elims will go after one target, but since there are two of that target, the kill both just to be sure.

31 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Having two shaper's lenses floating around from Aydee's ability combined with four confirmed safe roles, two of which(Alcatraz and Aydee) can easily prove themselves without too much fear of death, will make this game quite difficult for the elims. Maybe have a usage limitation for the shaper's lens, or have some elims that scan as village.

I could probably make the Shaper's lense reveal the role rather than alignment. That way some elims would only register as Oculators.

31 minutes ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

Warden of the Standard scans as a villager, Order of the Shattered Lens can choose a certain number of times to destroy the lenses of the elim kill, Scrivener's Bones are not oculators but can forge new lenses for themselves from the blood of oculators, or other thematic abilities.

I like this idea. I'm thinking maybe the Order of the Shattered Lens addition would be very good in response to Aydee's and Alcatraz's ability. I also like the Scrivener's Bones suggestion, but Aydee's ability does have the potential to assign those extra lenses to the elims as well.

EDIT: 

What do you think about making the disguise also make the person appear as their target in scans?

Edited March 11, 2019 by Elandera

[Devotary of Spontaneity]

44 minutes ago, Elandera said:

No, it either protects the disguised in the even the disguised is attacked, or it will kill both if the person the disguised looks like is attacked. In a thematic sense, the elims will go after one target, but since there are two of that target, the kill both just to be sure.

So if a villager disguises themselves as Alcatraz, if the elims target Alcatraz with the kill both Alcatraz and the villager will die even if Bastille protects Alcatraz?

48 minutes ago, Elandera said:

I could probably make the Shaper's lense reveal the role rather than alignment. That way some elims would only register as Oculators.

So the new Shaper's lens shows most players, including the Dark Oculator and any roleless librarians, as Oculators, the Smedries as such, Bastille as a Knight, and reveals the Shattered Lens and a potential Scrivener as their respective roles?

The new Windstormer edit seems to work, and I believe it should require an action to allow the player to choose when they use it. Thematically, I think the disguiser's lenses should only alter the scans of the tracker's lens and possibly the oculator's lens, if anything.

[Elandera she/her]

2 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

So if a villager disguises themselves as Alcatraz, if the elims target Alcatraz with the kill both Alcatraz and the villager will die even if Bastille protects Alcatraz?

Oh, I hadn't thought of that. I lean towards it protecting just the real Alcatraz. However, I'll gladly take balance suggestions for this.

2 hours ago, Devotary of Spontaneity said:

So the new Shaper's lens shows most players, including the Dark Oculator and any roleless librarians, as Oculators, the Smedries as such, Bastille as a Knight, and reveals the Shattered Lens and a potential Scrivener as their respective roles?

It would show most players as Oculator, but anyone with a specific name attached (Dark Oculator, Smedry's, Bastille, Scrivner's) would be shown. Again, I can change this for balance.

And yes, I'll specify which scans work for disguising.

EDIT: I was, however, thinking the Shaper's Lense would be the only real scan that disguising would change. If given to elims, it would assist them in hiding. And since they only look like the other player, they're still taking their own actions and using their own lenses.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Elandera

[CadCom he/him]

So I was reviewing the games I've played in, and in the King Killer Chronicle game (MR 29, I believe), There was a joke going on before the game actually started to lynch the GM, and it got me wondering...

Have there been any games where the GM also had a secret role or something that allowed them to directly influence the game in an unknown way? If so, could someone point me to it? It seems like it could be an interesting and fun mechanic.   

[Fifth Scholar he/him]

1 hour ago, Cadmium Compounder said:

So I was reviewing the games I've played in, and in the King Killer Chronicle game (MR 29, I believe), There was a joke going on before the game actually started to lynch the GM, and it got me wondering...

Have there been any games where the GM also had a secret role or something that allowed them to directly influence the game in an unknown way? If so, could someone point me to it? It seems like it could be an interesting and fun mechanic.   

Hahahaha...

Any of Joe’s games are a good launching point (I recommend QF14 if you want truly interesting mechanics with supposedly OOG characters). GM intervention is interesting, but also fraught with risk in many ways. The main role of the GM is to be an impartial facilitator of an enjoying game, and having them possess direct influence would undermine that slightly. That said, having the GM function like an NPC and have a jester role or similar has been successfully implemented before. Consider LG15a and LG41, in which the GM had to be lynched for the Elims to win, or games (there’s quite a few of these) where the GM used a character of their own to advance writeups. It really kind of depends on what you have in mind, I suppose.  

[Lumgol she/her]

2 hours ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Hahahaha...

Any of Joe’s games are a good launching point (I recommend QF14 if you want truly interesting mechanics with supposedly OOG characters). GM intervention is interesting, but also fraught with risk in many ways. The main role of the GM is to be an impartial facilitator of an enjoying game, and having them possess direct influence would undermine that slightly. That said, having the GM function like an NPC and have a jester role or similar has been successfully implemented before. Consider LG15a and LG41, in which the GM had to be lynched for the Elims to win, or games (there’s quite a few of these) where the GM used a character of their own to advance writeups. It really kind of depends on what you have in mind, I suppose.  

There was also an idea for a Legion game in which the GM is Stephen and a village wincon is to help Stephen somehow while the elims are trying to hurt him. Could this be implemented?

[Snipexe he/him]

10 minutes ago, Lumgol said:

There was also an idea for a Legion game in which the GM is Stephen and a village wincon is to help Stephen somehow while the elims are trying to hurt him. Could this be implemented?

Ooh, I really like this. Now I’m super tempted to build a game like this.

[Alvron]

On 3/14/2019 at 3:47 PM, Mailliw772 said:

There was also an idea for a Legion game in which the GM is Stephen and a village wincon is to help Stephen somehow while the elims are trying to hurt him. Could this be implemented?

On 3/14/2019 at 3:58 PM, Snipexe said:

Ooh, I really like this. Now I’m super tempted to build a game like this.

May I direct your eyes towards QF6. It doesn't have everything you are asking for but may give you a couple of ideas should you decide to make one yourself.

[Mailliw73 he/him]

Figured I’d throw these here as well to get some more feedback. I wanted to play with the 8 basic Allomantic metals, but in a different way from Meta’s classic rules for them. I’ll probably run this as a Long Game. 

Soother: A Soother can burn brass and Soothe a player each night, causing their zeal for justice to diminish. During the next cycle, the Soothed player cannot post in thread or use abilities.

Rioter: Once per game, a Rioter can burn their zinc during the day to encourage a second lynch. That day, the two players with the most votes will be lynched. The Eliminators will also get a second kill due to their anger being rioted.

Seeker: A Seeker is told which players used abilities that night. The more they use their ability, they grow in skill and the more information they’ll receive.

Smoker: Smokers interfere with Seeking. At night, a Smoker can choose a player to Smoke. When they do this, it distorts the information the Seeker receives about that person. If a Smoker is one of the two most voted for players up for a lynch when the Rioter uses their ability, the Smoker will not die.

Coinshot: As a Coinshot flies around the city at night, they spot any attacks. When they do, they have the ability to Push on the weapon and deflect it to the player above or below the intended target on the player list.

Lurcher: A Lurcher can choose to Pull attacks toward them and their protective shield, bringing the kill one person on the player list closer to the Lurcher’s own position.

Tineye: Tineyes have enhanced senses that they use to observe at night. To them, the city is an open book. Their senses enable them to evade any actions taken against them while burning tin at night. They’ll be told what action(s) were taken against them.

Pewterarm: When a Pewterarm is attacked, they will fight for their survival. They will stay alive for one turn after being attacked or lynched. During that turn, they can choose a player to kill. If they kill their attacker, they will survive.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12aSHFZDQ1AQJnYEOcSFvHHRioHHypWSBuAagcvFTVB4

[Fifth Scholar he/him]

25 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

Soother: A Soother can burn brass and Soothe a player each night, causing their zeal for justice to diminish. During the next cycle, the Soothed player cannot post in thread or use abilities.

I like this twist, but I’d be careful with restricting a player’s ability to post. The roleblock seems fine, but silencing people may cause disengagement or disillusionment with the game—as this ability stands, it effectively kills a player for one cycle, which can be incredibly frustrating especially in combination with denial of the ability to submit an action. 

26 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

Seeker: A Seeker is told which players used abilities that night. The more they use their ability, they grow in skill and the more information they’ll receive.

Could you disambiguate this slightly? As this ability stands, I’m not entirely sure what this does. Would it simply provide imperfect lists of who takes action each Night, or is it more specific?

30 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

Coinshot: As a Coinshot flies around the city at night, they spot any attacks. When they do, they have the ability to Push on the weapon and deflect it to the player above or below the intended target on the player list.

Would they target a specific player or attack, or would they simply say “any attacks are Pushed one player up/down” as an order? The same applies to the Lurchers. Would these abilities affect both Thug and Eliminator kills? 

31 minutes ago, Mailliw73 said:

Tineye: Tineyes have enhanced senses that they use to observe at night. To them, the city is an open book. Their senses enable them to evade any actions taken against them while burning tin at night. They’ll be told what action(s) were taken against them.

This seems...a little overpowered? A village tin claimant could be both completely untouchable while at the same time knowing exactly what other people are doing to them. There’s heavy potential for a mayorship to be set up here, and even giving the role to an Elim doesn’t fix much; they’d still be immortal except to the lynch and generally have too much of a protective shield. Perhaps give the ability a limit on frequency of use, or add a drawback such as vote negation? 

Factions are presumably typical village/Eliminator, yes? Are PMs allowed? If two Rioters use their abilities simultaneously, would three people be lynched/killed at Night? 

I do think that this ruleset should prove very interesting, though, and I like the novel mechanics you’ve come up with. Your conception of Pewter is an excellent thematic twist as well. It’s good to see diverging interpretations of Meta’s original roles. 

[Mailliw73 he/him]

2 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

I like this twist, but I’d be careful with restricting a player’s ability to post. The roleblock seems fine, but silencing people may cause disengagement or disillusionment with the game—as this ability stands, it effectively kills a player for one cycle, which can be incredibly frustrating especially in combination with denial of the ability to submit an action. 

Could you disambiguate this slightly? As this ability stands, I’m not entirely sure what this does. Would it simply provide imperfect lists of who takes action each Night, or is it more specific?

Would they target a specific player or attack, or would they simply say “any attacks are Pushed one player up/down” as an order? The same applies to the Lurchers. Would these abilities affect both Thug and Eliminator kills? 

This seems...a little overpowered? A village tin claimant could be both completely untouchable while at the same time knowing exactly what other people are doing to them. There’s heavy potential for a mayorship to be set up here, and even giving the role to an Elim doesn’t fix much; they’d still be immortal except to the lynch and generally have too much of a protective shield. Perhaps give the ability a limit on frequency of use, or add a drawback such as vote negation? 

Factions are presumably typical village/Eliminator, yes? Are PMs allowed? If two Rioters use their abilities simultaneously, would three people be lynched/killed at Night? 

I do think that this ruleset should prove very interesting, though, and I like the novel mechanics you’ve come up with. Your conception of Pewter is an excellent thematic twist as well. It’s good to see diverging interpretations of Meta’s original roles. 

Most of these confusions come from me posting only the metal mechanics, not the rest of the rules for the game, so sorry for that. 

Concerning Soothing, that is a good point that I didn't consider. PMs are completely open in this game, so they would still have interactions that way. Maybe I would change it to only last for the turn, either day or night, depending on when the Soother used it. 

So, the first turn a Seeker burned bronze, they'd learn which players burned metals at all. The second night, they'd learn which burned physical and which burned mental metals, and so on, getting more specific each night they burn their metal. I left it ambiguous on purpose, since I haven't exactly decided how the progression will work, but the example here should suffice for now. 

• Maill is a Seeker and burns Bronze N1. He gets this as a result: Fifth, Alv, and Wilson burned metals. N2, he's more practiced with his metal and gets something like: Fifth and Alv burned physical metals, Wilson burned a mental one. N3: Fifth and Wilson burned a pushing metal, Alv burned a pulling metal. N4: Fifth burned Steel, Alv burned Tin, and Wilson burned Brass.
• Does that make more sense?

So the part I neglected to put in is that the eliminators would submit their kill during the day, but the action wouldn't take place till the night. Flavor-wise, they deliberate and then make the decision during the day so that the assigned killer can use the night to make the kill. At the beginning of the night, the Coinshot would be told who was being attacked and then could choose to not affect the kill, move it up the player list, or down, with the current rule. I think Iron/Steel need the most finetuning, but I want to do something along these lines. Their abilities would only affect the eliminator kill. I've also had the idea(thanks to Lum) that Lurchers might choose to switch places with someone else on the player list and affecting the elim kill and coinshots in that way. 

Good point concerning Tineyes. Maybe they can alternate nights between observing a specific player to see who they target and from being on alert themselves to evade attacks. I also like the idea of them being tired from being on guard all night so they fail to vote. 

Yep, typical village/eliminator game. There will be open PMs. Yes, if two Rioters used their abilities on the same cycle, up to 6 people could be attacked that cycle. 

Thanks for the feedback as well as the compliment! It helps to have people like you to analyze the rules as well.