How exactly is the True Desolation different from previous ones

[Arcoss]

Hoid noted that it's different but I don't see how

 

The summoning of the Everstorm might seem like it but it is hinted by the way Pattern phrased it("Time is very short. They have summoned the Everstorm" )that it happened before. Also I don't see why the Stormforms of the past wouldn't attempt to summon it 

 

 

 

 

 

[soulcastJam he/him]

Perhaps this is a threat that hasn't been put into place until now.  Also, did Stormform exist before?  I don't remember if it was completely new or not.

[teknopathetic he/him]

This desolation is different for a number of reasons. 

 

1. The people are without Honour.

2. Cultivation doesn't seem to care.

3.The spren are resentful.

4. The Dawnshards, whatever they are, seem to be lost.The Dawnsingers , if different, are lost as well.

5. The heralds are not preparing the people for war.

6. The surges are feared.

7. The Everstorm might be a novel thing.

8. Many of the Gem Animals are now extinct or about to be extinct. 

9. Many of the symbiotic animals like Ryshadium and the Stormliught Bird appear to be nearly lost.

 

 

It is sort of bleak.... Especially considering humanity barely won all the previous desolations. These 9 or so setbacks make it seem like The Stormlight Archive might be the story of how a planet falls. This is in contrast to Elantris which is about a planet that already fell. I really don't think Roshar will pull through. My gut tells me that we will see the people of Roshar leave the planet and settle on other words.

Edited May 10, 2016 by teknopathetic

[Oversleep]

Check this topic: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/53244-all-we-know-about-nalans-hunt-return-of-spren-desolation-and-recreance-is-nalan-just-insane/
I tried to compile everything we know about Desolations.

[avery]

This desolation is different for a number of reasons. 

 

1. The people are without Honour.

2. Cultivation doesn't seem to care.

3.The spren are resentful.

4. The Dawnshards, whatever they are, seem to be lost.The Dawnsingers , if different, are lost as well.

5. The heralds are not preparing the people for war.

6. The surges are feared.

7. The Everstorm might be a novel thing.

8. Many of the Gem Animals are now extinct or about to be extinct. 

9. Many of the symbiotic animals like Ryshadium and the Stormliught Bird appear to be nearly lost.

 

 

It is sort of bleak.... Especially considering humanity barely won all the previous desolations. These 9 or so setbacks make it seem like The Stormlight Archive might be the story of how a planet falls. This is in contrast to Elantris which is about a planet that already fell. I really don't think Roshar will pull through. My gut tells me that we will see the people of Roshar leave the planet and settle on other words.

Cultivation doesn't care? How would that even be guessed. Isn't Cultivation spren, like Cryptics, the ones being proactive; unlike honor spren, we only have Syl. The stormfather is holding a lot of his children back. While, the nightwatcher is working on lift, and who knows who else. The Cryptics guided Shallan to Jasnah. So, Cultivation has been silent, or is it because it is too early to introduce the divine being, who probably can't directly interfere against the one who already killed honor.

[Bowiespoon he/him]

Short version, all of humanities allies got bored and left, completely destroyed, or to weakened to offer resistance. Now Odium will rain on our parade.

[Argel he/him]

I think the Everstorm itself is something new as well.

[Pathfinder]

This is a quote from Words of Radiance, between Dalinar and the Stormfather:

 

WoR page 1070

"What do you know of this storm that the Parshendi unleashed?"

"THE EVERSTORM. IT IS A NEW THING, BUT OLD OF DESIGN. IT ROUNDS THE WORLD NOW, AND CARRIES WITH IT HIS SPREN. ANY OF THE OLD PEOPLE IT TOUCHES WILL TAKE ON THEIR NEW FORMS"

[Nyali she/her]

I think, before, when the Desolation came, it was like, Odium declared "One of your Heralds is breaking under my torture. So, in X days, I'll be trying to destroy Roshar again. Here's your Heralds back. All is as we agreed." Then the Heralds were able to prepare humanity for the Desolation, and when the time arrived, suddenly all of the embryonic Voidbringers (who had been hiding out in the wilds in dull form or worker form or something) became Voidbringers again (ie: bonded with voidspren and took on a Form of Power) all at once with no storm. After the Desolation, the Heralds would go back to Odium to get tortured again until one of them started to break down. But, at the end, nine of them decided not to go back, hoping the tenth being forced back by death would be good enough to satisfy the agreement that bound Odium. Since the one that went back was the most stoic and stalwart among them, it was an extraordinarily long time before the next Desolation could come (4,500 years) since Odium had to wait until he started to break under the torture.

 

But, at some point, probably after the Heralds declared they had won for reals, all of the Voidbringers, instead of going back into their embryonic form to await the next Desolation, were bound to serve humans by a Bondsmith wielding the Dawn Shard. That made them into the Parshmen instead, and made it so Odium couldn't just transform them all instantly anymore. I suspect this is when they became able to merge with non-voidspren, but could only bond with spren during High Storms using power taken from Honor. The Everstorm is his hack - because the Parshendi can only shift in a storm now, Odium made his own storm and seeded it with his voidspren.

 

 

What I want to know is, what's the timeline? Nohadon became king following one of the Desolations that wasn't the final one (or he was king already when it started), and wrote his book. The Knights Radiant were founded after that point, but not too long after, and there were Desolations after their founding. Sometime after their founding, the Heralds declared themselves to have won (which occurred 4,500 years before the series begins). Sometime after that, or before that, the Voidbringers were turned into the Parshman by a Radiant. Sometime after that, the Recreance happened. Is that even right?

[Yata he/him]

Probably the Listener always needed the Stormlight (or a massive Source of Investiture) to bond a Spren in ancient time like today.

[Eki]

Yeah, I think Listener forms are older than the shards' presence on Roshar.

[Palpie]

Has anyone ever asked Brandon if there were highstorms on Roshar before cultivation/honor came?  Would help in figuring out if the source of the Investiture for stormlight is one or both of them or something Adonalsium left behind that their magic takes advantage of.

 

On the difference in this desolation, I think it's because without Honor (and maybe the heralds and KR) there's nothing to bind Odium to whatever rules there were before.  So one way or another this will be the final (true) desolation as either Odium wins and probably kills all humans along with cultivation, or he's defeated and driven away to terrorize some other shard world.  I don't think rayse/odium will die just yet.

[Rasarr she/her]

Has anyone ever asked Brandon if there were highstorms on Roshar before cultivation/honor came?  Would help in figuring out if the source of the Investiture for stormlight is one or both of them or something Adonalsium left behind that their magic takes advantage of.

 

Highstorms predate Shards on Roshar, it's been at JordanCon.

 

Q: You mentioned the ecology on Roshar, and you mentioned that mostly the non-sentient spren predate the [shattering of Adonalsium?]. So my question is about the evolution of life on Roshar, and how essential the highstorms are to life on Roshar, how the plants evolved...so can we assume that life that is dependent on the highstorms predates the Shattering of Adonalsium?

A: Um…

Q: Can we correctly assume?

[Laughter]

A: I’ll tell you this. The highstorms predate, and there was a lot of natural evolution on Roshar resulting in a lot of what we have there.

 

Later Brandon said that we'll learn more about this from the Great Grumpy One himself in SA3.

[Patrick Star]

The true desolation is a combo meal.

 

You get a packet of red lightning, a bag of everstorms, and a water bottle signed by Odium with your main entree of a desolation.

[Lightspine]

For some reason what I haven't seen here is any quote from Jasnah and Hoid's conversation. When Hoid tells Jasnah that the Everstorm has been called and it will bring the transformation Jasnah says "that's not how it happened before." It seems the Everstorm existed before, but didn't bring the voidspren. I think that the shear side of Urithiru facing west is another indicator of this.

Anyway, somebody above said that the Listeners may have hid in the wilderness between desolations. However, their songs mention something called the "dark home." No clue what that is, but it doesn't sound like the wilderness.

[Pathfinder]

For some reason what I haven't seen here is any quote from Jasnah and Hoid's conversation. When Hoid tells Jasnah that the Everstorm has been called and it will bring the transformation Jasnah says "that's not how it happened before." It seems the Everstorm existed before, but didn't bring the voidspren. I think that the shear side of Urithiru facing west is another indicator of this.

Anyway, somebody above said that the Listeners may have hid in the wilderness between desolations. However, their songs mention something called the "dark home." No clue what that is, but it doesn't sound like the wilderness.

But combine that quote with Stormfathers quote and it shows the entire process is new, Everstorm and the Everstorm bringing the voidspren. The old design is its purpose, which is to transform the parshendi. But the storm itself is new.