Okay, I admit it; the Thrill confuses me.

[Quiver]

Specifically, I'm confused as to whether or not it's a real thing, or if it's just a cultural precept. 

 

My interpretation of the Thrill in Way of Kings was that it was kind of like adrenaline or a battle lust; a mundane thing which Alethi cultural precepts have made Super Important, which is why it had a capitalized name rather than just being called "adrenaline", or "the thrill of battle" or something. 

 

But... the default assumption on this board seem's to be that it originates from something magical in origin (likely Odium). I was just wondering, is "the Thrill is magical" confirmed anywhere?

 

I wouldn't be surprised if it were; but at the moment, I'm still a little confused about it. All the major moments I can think of involving the Thrill seem vague enough that I'm unsure if it is a magical influence or just the Alethi customs coloring characters reactions. 

[skaa]

The Thrill apparently comes from Nergaoul. He is first mentioned in WoR:

“The Thrill?” he whispered to Adrotagia as they left the latest group of men. “They fought through the night as their capital burned. It must have been in force.”

“I agree,” she said. “It gives us a further reference point. The Thrill is at least as strong here as it is in Alethkar. Maybe stronger. I will speak to our scholars. Perhaps this will help pinpoint Nergaoul.”

Brandon confirmed the connection last December on Reddit:

First, Dalinar could have felt the Thrill from Nergaoul, and imported it into the vision.

Second, Nergaoul could have been active then, and the farmer could have felt it when he fought.

Edited February 20, 2016 by skaa

[Matt Snow]

What I want to know is if the Thrill only affects Lighteyes, and if it does is that by design or because of something else?

[maxal]

What I want to know is if the Thrill only affects Lighteyes, and if it does is that by design or because of something else?

 

I think it affects everyone, but I am not sure if I recall properly.

[Kelek's Breath]

I believe that it affects everyone. There are hints that Kaladin feels the beginnings of the Thrill is some of his POVs. There is also Taravangian remarking about the battle in Jah Keved being a lot more fearsome than he had expected because of the Thrill.

And don't forget the mysterious remarks in Dalinar's first vision we see, where the one Radiant tells Dalinar that 'fighting, even fighting against the Ten Deaths, changes people' (quote not exact as i don't have the book in front of me), hinting that if left unchecked or not funnelled properly, this change may be a negative one.

[AerionBFII]

During my read of WOK I always thought it was part of Roshars genetic code and it was stronger than adrenaline and makes you lust for battle, like if you stripped 'Flight' away from the 'Flight or Fight Response'. Now after WOR it seems it's more to do with the influence of The Unmade Nergaoul. Who's name resembles Nergal who was a Babylonian war god.

Stormlight has a similar feeling we are told, it urges you to move and to act. Maybe Odium and his Unmade have twisted the intent from adrenaline junky to battle lust/craving, i wouldn't put it past him Odium is surprisingly subtle. I have no real proof except for Kal and Dalinar have both felt it previously but when they came close to being KR it made them feel nauseous....

Edited February 24, 2016 by WEZ313

[Jondesu]

You know, the only person who thinks the Thrill is from Nergaol is Taravangian (that we know of), so he could be wrong.  Considering Dalinar and Adolin's reactions to the Thrill later, it does seem likely that Nergaol and Odium could be involved, but we don't really know that for certain.

 

Scratch that, I forgot about Brandon confirming it as posted above.

 

jW

Edited February 23, 2016 by Jondesu

[King's Twit]

This is a little off-topic, but I remember someone saying in another topic on this forum that the Thrill only started to affect people again around when Gavilar died. Is this true? Because it seems like it wouldn't have become such a culturally accepted and known thing so quickly, especially since there seems to be a stigma around ever bringing the Thrill up in conversation.

[DreamEternal]

This is a little off-topic, but I remember someone saying in another topic on this forum that the Thrill only started to affect people again around when Gavilar died. Is this true?

Most likely not. That person must have been mixing it up with the Death Rattles.

The thrill is ancient, as far as we know, and if the fact Alethela was the nation dedicated to training soldiers is any indication, which is a big assumption, but not unreasonable, it predates the Last Desolation.

[King's Twit]

Most likely not. That person must have been mixing it up with the Death Rattles.

The thrill is ancient, as far as we know, and if the fact Alethela was the nation dedicated to training soldiers is any indication, which is a big assumption, but not unreasonable, it predates the Last Desolation.

 

I believe you are right in that both the Trill and the Death Rattles are ancient, but I think the point of contention here is whether either of the two effects has always been around and manifesting in people, or if they stopped at some point and have only begun to reappear in recent years.

 

I may have found the WoB which is the source of the confusion

 

 

GPMUSHU

Has the Thrill existed longer than the Death Rattles or have they both been occurring for about the same period of time?

BRANDON SANDERSON

The Thrill and the Death Rattles started around the same time, but the locations for the two fluctuate and have been since they appeared.

 

Brandon here could either be referring to:

 

a) the two first appeared long, long ago around the same time, likely when the unmade first became active on Roshar

 

or

 

/b) the two were dormant for a long time, but both started up again around the same time within the last several years

 

Does anyone know of a later WoB which clarifies which he meant?

 

There's a WoB that Dalinar might have been able to feel the Thrill in one of his visions because the farmer who Dalinar was at the time could possibly have felt the Thrill. This is suggestive, though not confirmatory, of the Thrill being active back when the desolation cycle was still going strong. This would mean that both the Thrill and the Death Rattles are likely ancient phenomena.

 

Taravangian mentions at one point that he is worried that Moelach, the Unmade that he believes is causing the Death Rattles, has "decided to slumber again," which would suggest that the Death Rattles have only recently come back, as Moelach arose from its slumber. Or it could mean that Taravangian has seen stretches of time where the Death Rattles have stopped, periods of months or years since he first began to record them.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention that when the Death Rattles first started to be mentioned in WoK, they said that there were a lot of rumors around how people recently started saying weird stuff when they died, which would suggest to me that the Death Rattles, at least, were dormant for a long time and have only recently begun to resurface. Or it could mean that Moelach spent a very long time in one area that doesn't communicate much with Alethkar or Kharbranth (maybe Shinovar?)

Edited February 23, 2016 by King's Twit

[Eumenide]

This is a little off-topic, but I remember someone saying in another topic on this forum that the Thrill only started to affect people again around when Gavilar died. Is this true? Because it seems like it wouldn't have become such a culturally accepted and known thing so quickly, especially since there seems to be a stigma around ever bringing the Thrill up in conversation.

 

 

Most likely not. That person must have been mixing it up with the Death Rattles.

The thrill is ancient, as far as we know, and if the fact Alethela was the nation dedicated to training soldiers is any indication, which is a big assumption, but not unreasonable, it predates the Last Desolation.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Dalinar mention that he almost attacked Gavilar once when younger when he was almost consumed by the thrill?

 

This would indicate that the thrill is in fact ancient or at least old.

also the connection to the unmade hints at it being of Odium. Also think back to the battle of Narak, Adolin seeks the thrill but cant find it and then Eshonai shows up seemingly crazy with lust for battle, coincidence?

[Cephandrius]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Dalinar mention that he almost attacked Gavilar once when younger when he was almost consumed by the thrill?

I don't think that specifically is because of the Thrill, at least not 100%.  I had the sense that the younger Blackthorn was a bloodthirsty warmonger always looking for a fight because that's just who he was.  Gavilar both stealing his girlfriend and being the only worthy opponent left alive after the war would have made Gav a natural target with or without the Thrill.  But yes, the Thrill would have made Dal angrier.  

(Gav = Gavilar, Dal = Dalinar obviously, and so on for Ren (Renarin) Shal (Shallan)... but what could be short for Adolin? and Jasnah's nickname is obviously Brightness Kholin because she's to intimidating and mature for anything else )

 

I do agree that  the Thrill has been around for a while, at least a generation or two, if not much, much longer.  

[maxal]

(Gav = Gavilar, Dal = Dalinar obviously, and so on for Ren (Renarin) Shal (Shallan)... but what could be short for Adolin? and Jasnah's nickname is obviously Brightness Kholin because she's to intimidating and mature for anything else )

 

Since Ad doesn't quite sounds like it, I think he had to accept, at some point, he couldn't have a nickname. And people say Adolin isn't broken: poor kid with golden hair and a name which can't be shorten.

[DreamEternal]

Since Ad doesn't quite sounds like it, I think he had to accept, at some point, he couldn't have a nickname. And people say Adolin isn't broken: poor kid with golden hair and a name which can't be shorten.

What about Lin? No one said we need to use the beggining of the name.

[sheep]

What about Lin? No one said we need to use the beggining of the name.

 

That's the name of Shallan's dad.

The only people familiar enough with Adolin to use a nickname are Kaladin, Shallan and possibly Renarin.   Kaladin would rather use "Princeling" and Renarin doesn't talk much. Dalinar and Navani don't do pet names, because Adolin isn't a little kid to them anymore.   Which leaves Shallan.

 

 

Siri managed to get "Seb" from Susebron.

Maybe it will be something unexpected.

[maxal]

Yeah well somehow "Lin" doesn't quite work.

 

 

 

 

I wonder why 

[sheep]

Yeah well somehow "Lin" doesn't quite work.

 

 

 

 

I wonder why 

 

 

Because all these one syllable nicknames are pretty much the given names of darkeyed peasants.

Why would a lighteyes who is named after a Herald, ancient king, or princely grandfather, want a peasant name, even as a nickname?

 

In universe, I expect petnames are something cute and endearing, along the lines of "Pudding" or "Chicken".

Just imagine Sadeas and his wife calling each other that.

[maxal]

Because all these one syllable nicknames are pretty much the given names of darkeyed peasants.

Why would a lighteyes who is named after a Herald, ancient king, or princely grandfather, want a peasant name, even as a nickname?

 

In universe, I expect petnames are something cute and endearing, along the lines of "Pudding" or "Chicken".

Just imagine Sadeas and his wife calling each other that.

 

I was referring to Shallan's father being named "Lin". Having Adolin being nicknamed "Lin" is kinda weird. Anyway, Dalinar didn't nicknamed Adolin, he maybe nicknamed Renarin and Elhokar, but not Adolin.

 

OMG Pudding ad Chicken are my new head-canon for Sadeas and Ialai   I love this couple even if I hate the individuals in it, I love their relationship. It is... delicious, if I shall say.

[sheep]

I was referring to Shallan's father being named "Lin". Having Adolin being nicknamed "Lin" is kinda weird. Anyway, Dalinar didn't nicknamed Adolin, he maybe nicknamed Renarin and Elhokar, but not Adolin.

 

OMG Pudding ad Chicken are my new head-canon for Sadeas and Ialai   I love this couple even if I hate the individuals in it, I love their relationship. It is... delicious, if I shall say.

 

Adolin and Dalinar having a nickname is just weird.  Probably because they only ever do work related things onscreen, and most of the time their relationship is more like a soldier and superior officer. 

 

It's hard to think of cute things when most Rosharan wildlife are decidedly non-cute.  Since Shshshsh is outside the chain-of-command, maybe Dalinar called her "Sunshine".

[maxal]

Adolin and Dalinar having a nickname is just weird.  Probably because they only ever do work related things onscreen, and most of the time their relationship is more like a soldier and superior officer. 

 

It is. Sadly. Apparently Dalinar has a flaw when it comes to Adolin. New WoB.

[sheep]

It is. Sadly. Apparently Dalinar has a flaw when it comes to Adolin. New WoB.

That was not unexpected.  I won't be surprised if it turns out to be wanting Adolin to be what he could have been if he hadn't turned Blackthorn.  Too bad Dalinar isn't a Gold Misting; that would have been more useful than pushing his son into the life of a social reject.

 

He has a flaw with Renarin too, for that matter.

 

And now the thread is derailed.

[maxal]

That was not unexpected.  I won't be surprised if it turns out to be wanting Adolin to be what he could have been if he hadn't turned Blackthorn.  Too bad Dalinar isn't a Gold Misting; that would have been more useful than pushing his son into the life of a social reject.

 

He has a flaw with Renarin too, for that matter.

 

And now the thread is derailed.

 

   

 

I always make thread derails  

 

The WoB in question was as to whether or not Dalinar was more strict with Adolin than he was with Elhokar and Renarin as he appears very lenient with them (and not with Adolin). The answer was yes, he is harder with Adolin and yes it is a character flaw (so not something normal). It had nothing to do with Adolin (so not something he did or is). One of the reason is because Adolin is his heir and in line for the throne (though it doesn't add up with him being very forgiving with Elhokar who is the King), the other part is linked to Dalinar himself and will likely come into play in book 3.

 

But it has been said: Dalinar is negatively bias towards being harsher with Adolin than with his other son/nephew and no it isn't a good behavior on his part. He called it a flaw, author's words, not mine.

[DreamEternal]

On Adolin's nickname, Shalkan's father was named Lyn.

...which is pronounced exactly the same way... :/

[sheep]

   

 

I always make thread derails

 

The WoB in question was as to whether or not Dalinar was more strict with Adolin than he was with Elhokar and Renarin as he appears very lenient with them (and not with Adolin). The answer was yes, he is harder with Adolin and yes it is a character flaw (so not something normal). It had nothing to do with Adolin (so not something he did or is). One of the reason is because Adolin is his heir and in line for the throne (though it doesn't add up with him being very forgiving with Elhokar who is the King), the other part is linked to Dalinar himself and will likely come into play in book 3.

 

But it has been said: Dalinar is negatively bias towards being harsher with Adolin than with his other son/nephew and no it isn't a good behavior on his part. He called it a flaw, author's words, not mine.

 

 

“You’ve been taught well, Adolin,” Dalinar said, eyes on that assassin. “You’re a better man than I am. I was always a tyrant who had to learn to be something else. But you, you’ve been a good man from the start. Lead them, Adolin. Unite them.”

Chapter 85, "Swallowed by the Sky", WoR

 

Dalinar is stricter with Adolin because he holds him to a higher standard than everyone else.  Elhokar is a man, but he's not good: he's a spoiled manchild.  Renarin is good, but he's not a man: he's a little boy who needs to be sheltered from the world. 

 

Is it negative bias that Dalinar sees only Adolin as a worthy successor while his other male relatives have been relegated to varying levels of useless?

[maxal]

Dalinar is stricter with Adolin because he holds him to a higher standard than everyone else.  Elhokar is a man, but he's not good: he's a spoiled manchild.  Renarin is good, but he's not a man: he's a little boy who needs to be sheltered from the world. 

 

Is it negative bias that Dalinar sees only Adolin as a worthy successor while his other male relatives have been relegated to varying levels of useless?

 

The WoB in question says this is one of the reasons. My interpretation is this part of the answer tackles the "normal" part of Dalinar's behavior, but it seems there is another part which is a flaw. Here are the exact words.

 

Question:  Dalinar seems to be very lenient with Elhokar and Renarin but very strict with Adolin. Is that just my imagination or it is really that way?

Answer: Yes, Dalinar is more strict with Adolin. It is a flaw in Dalinar’s character. It is not about Adolin. (pause) It is also because Adolin is his heir and also in line for the throne. 

So all in all, yes some of it is tied to Adolin's status, but not all. He starts by saying it is a flaw then he continues by stating there also is the fact he is his heir, but it definitely is a flaw. It seems there is more to him then Adolin just being his heir. It also states it has nothing to do with Adolin himself, so it isn't tied to anything he may have done or said or be. My thought are Dalinar is flawed just as Kaladin is flawed. Remember how Kaladin automatically feel sympathetic to people he associates to either Tien or victims and how he has trouble with anyone not falling within those categories? I think Dalinar has a similar flaw. He somehow dotes more on Elhokar/Renarin because they remind him of himself (youngest, less talented brother) and an unconscious part of him wished he had received more attention. Adolin doesn't hit on those sensitive cords, worst he hits on a negative one by being handsome and talented (thus associated to Gavilar). The problem is Kaladin is just a 20 years old kid who's doing it with strangers, Dalinar is a 50 years old grown man who is doing it with his own son. No matter how talented and seemingly perfect he appears to be, Adolin deserved to be treated as the equal of others and he deserved to receive his father's affection once in a while, not just orders. He deserved to be seen as more than a useful tool which is basically how Dalinar treats Adolin most of the time, while he cherishes Renarin and Elhokar being openly very fond of them... I have no doubt he loves his eldest son as well, but somehow, he seems to have buried these feelings into something else.

So Dalinar isn't the perfect father...