The Fixing of Aons (Spoilers?)

[Volratho]

So when reading back through Elantris this time I noticed something i found a little weird. To fix the Aons, the chasm line had to be added, this was very obvious for the simple single aon commands, ie. draw the base aon, add the chasm line, and poof it worked. 

 

But where I found it weird, is when there were multiple aons in the command. The primary and then all of the modifiers. From the text, it sounds like the base aon is drawn, modifiers are added, and then the chasm line was added to the base aon and poof it worked.

 

My confusion is, wouldn't all the modifiers need the chasm lines added as well? Was this just something that was glossed over and never stated? And if so, what order would you need to draw them in?

 

Base Aon, Modifier Aon(s), Modifier Chasm Line, Base Chasm Line?

Base Aon, Modifier Aon(s) with Chasm Line, Base Chasm Line?

 

 

[Full Metal Rithmatist]

it bothers me more that 99% of the aons dont have any of the base lines in at all and yet their not being a chasmline is somehow relevant.

 

Or that an entire society of elantrians with huge amounts of aon knowledge didnt think to draw a line in the dirt next to the city.

[Volratho]

That is another good point, all Aons are made from multiple Aon Aon. Thus, would you need to add the chasm line to each and every Aon Aon that makes up the more complex Aon?

 

(I dont know if I said the word Aon enough times in those two sentences...)

Edited February 5, 2016 by Volratho

[Heir of the Void he/him]

it bothers me more that 99% of the aons dont have any of the base lines in at all and yet their not being a chasmline is somehow relevant.

 

Or that an entire society of elantrians with huge amounts of aon knowledge didnt think to draw a line in the dirt next to the city.

 

Remember that most of the Old-elantrians got lynched fairly quickly after the Reod. Combined with the fact that news would suddenly travel very slowly without AonDornic communications and travel, I doubt most of them ever heard about the formation of the chasm. There was also a mention of a lot of the more AonDornicly-Inclined elantrians being physically incapacitated by the power failure; 'not struggling as the mobs burned them' or something.

 

That is another good point, all Aons are made from multiple Aon Aon. Thus, would you need to add the chasm line to each and every Aon Aon that makes up the more complex Aon?

 

(I dont know if I said the word Aon enough times in those two sentences...)

 

Presently, I think the current theory is that magic is so tied to nation-states in Sel is because Dominion was half of what Odium blended into the Dor. So it isn't connected to geography, it's the countries, and the various geometrically transformed Aon Aons are not accurate connections to the nation, only the original is, so acknowledging the geographic change is all that's necessary to re-establish the connection. Maybe.

[The Invested Beard]

I believe the root Aon is what actually powers the whole thing and the modifiers are merely more specific directions on what to do with the power from the original Aon. As such, only the base Aon needs to have the chasm as it's the only part that depicts the geography.

[natc]

It's not as if it's ever said the modifiers are even shaped like Arelon themselves. Even some standard aons just have the base Aon Aon pattern with added dots and such marking relevant landmarks and nothing else. Only the very base seems to be geographically significant.

[Oudeis he/him]

I'm a little confused by the OP... that I know of, we only ever see one full Aonic Equation work, and for all we know he really did add in all the Chasm Lines to every individual Aon when he made his illusions.

 

Besides that, all we see are single aons, like Ashe or Daa, or simple modified Aons. In case this is the confusion: Not every modifier is an entire Aon. You can draw a simple Aon like Ien, and add a few marks around it that simply define the power; they aren't Aons, just modifiers. It seems like you're talking about a full Aonic Equation, where a bunch of different Aons are connected to craft a far more complicated spell.

[Erunion he/him]

Currently on an Elantris reread: It seems that the base Aon Aon 'tunes' the Dor to the right frequency/pulse length. Think of it as being the carrier frequency in an FM radio channel; you have to 'tune in' before it can effectively convey information. Once you're on the carrier frequency, all the rest of the Aon is just information to define the output. When the chasm opened up, the carrier frequency shifted. All the Aon's were no longer properly 'tuned', so the information that came through was just messy noise. (I was clued in to this analogy by the Elantrian book that was discussing frequency and pulse length as to how the Aon's channel the Dor, and left Raoden thoroughly confused).

Why didn't people figure it out? According to the novel, the most powerful/cosmere savvy of the Elantrians were overwhelmed by the Dor (like poor Raoden when he got the pulses of pain), and freely accepted death; keep in mind that there was a bloody, horrifying revolution. Within a couple of days all the Elantrians were destroyed, Hoed or otherwise confined to Elantris.
 

[The Honor Spren she/her]

When you're scrolling through the forums super quickly,and accidentally read the title as The Fixing of Acne.

[Yata he/him]

When you're scrolling through the forums super quickly,and accidentally read the title as The Fixing of Acne.

Well, probably AonDor may do it 

[Landis963 he/him]

Well, probably AonDor may do it 

 

The Shaod; for all your skin-clearing needs!

[Zmann966 he/him]

Not all the Aons were large-scale maps of Arelon right? Aon Aon obviously is, and many of them are re-arrangements of that, but I thought I remember reading that some were of other parts of the land. Things like smaller regions, mountain ranges and river paths and stuff...

Things that might not necessarily need the chasm mark.

[natc]

Aon Aon is in every single one.

Those you mention are more literally a map. Draw Arelon, add icon for that geographical feature in question (a forest for wood gets marked with an X or something) and bam, wood.

[Landis963 he/him]

Aon Aon is in every single one.

Those you mention are more literally a map. Draw Arelon, add icon for that geographical feature in question (a forest for wood gets marked with an X or something) and bam, wood.

 

Aon Dii was the wood one, and it had 3 circles blocking out roughly where a large forest was, Aon Eno had the Aredel river drawn into it, Aon Mea had that one valley that was supposed to have a high concentration of minds in it marked with an X.  

[natc]

I kinda lost track of which was which . . . too much Mistborn lately

[Ari he/him]

So when reading back through Elantris this time I noticed something i found a little weird. To fix the Aons, the chasm line had to be added, this was very obvious for the simple single aon commands, ie. draw the base aon, add the chasm line, and poof it worked. 

 

But where I found it weird, is when there were multiple aons in the command. The primary and then all of the modifiers. From the text, it sounds like the base aon is drawn, modifiers are added, and then the chasm line was added to the base aon and poof it worked.

 

My confusion is, wouldn't all the modifiers need the chasm lines added as well? Was this just something that was glossed over and never stated? And if so, what order would you need to draw them in?

 

Base Aon, Modifier Aon(s), Modifier Chasm Line, Base Chasm Line?

Base Aon, Modifier Aon(s) with Chasm Line, Base Chasm Line?

 

Brandon has said modifying the base Aon is the minimum needed to get the Aons to work, and that for some Aons, adding additional Chasm lines could be helpful.

 

 

Remember that most of the Old-elantrians got lynched fairly quickly after the Reod. Combined with the fact that news would suddenly travel very slowly without AonDornic communications and travel, I doubt most of them ever heard about the formation of the chasm. There was also a mention of a lot of the more AonDornicly-Inclined elantrians being physically incapacitated by the power failure; 'not struggling as the mobs burned them' or something.

 

 

Presently, I think the current theory is that magic is so tied to nation-states in Sel is because Dominion was half of what Odium blended into the Dor. So it isn't connected to geography, it's the countries, and the various geometrically transformed Aon Aons are not accurate connections to the nation, only the original is, so acknowledging the geographic change is all that's necessary to re-establish the connection. Maybe.

 

Brandon nixed that theory, btw. It most likely has to do with the fact that the Shattered power of Dominion and Devotion has spilled into the Cognitive Realm around Sel, (for additional context on this, see the WoK map of Shadesmar referring to the way to Sel as the "expanse of the Broken Sky", and read Mistborn: Secret History, which gives a massive clue about what the sky represents in the Cognitive Realm) and unlike the Spiritual Realm, the Cognitive is sensitive to location.

 

Thus drawing on the Dor in various different places will be influenced by the local cognitive landscape and local ideas, and hence why location matters to say, the power accessed when drawing an Aon.

[Landis963 he/him]

Brandon nixed that theory, btw. It most likely has to do with the fact that the Shattered power of Dominion and Devotion has spilled into the Cognitive Realm around Sel, (for additional context on this, see the WoK map of Shadesmar referring to the way to Sel as the "expanse of the Broken Sky", and read Mistborn: Secret History, which gives a massive clue about what the sky represents in the Cognitive Realm) and unlike the Spiritual Realm, the Cognitive is sensitive to location.

 

Thus drawing on the Dor in various different places will be influenced by the local cognitive landscape and local ideas, and hence why location matters to say, the power accessed when drawing an Aon.

 

Point of order: We don't know that the Expanse of Broken Sky is Sel.  It's a reasonable inference, but I don't believe anything more (unless there's a WoB I missed).  

[ParadoxicalZen he/him]

Point of order: We don't know that the Expanse of Broken Sky is Sel.  It's a reasonable inference, but I don't believe anything more (unless there's a WoB I missed).

I was RAFO'd when I asked it, so still unconfirmed atm

[Ari he/him]

Point of order: We don't know that the Expanse of Broken Sky is Sel.  It's a reasonable inference, but I don't believe anything more (unless there's a WoB I missed).  

 

Yeah, that hasn't been confirmed, sure. It does seem like a lot of coincidences though that we now know that the cognitive sky represents the spiritual realm, and one of the expanses is called the Expanse of the Broken Sky, and that Sel has weird localised magic that seems consistent with its investiture spilling into the cognitive realm instead of staying in the spiritual realm. It all seems to support the theory that Sel's investiture is sourced from the cognitive realm.

[Shadowfax]

What bothered me the most was that the Seons worked without having chasm lines added to the Aons that were "inside" them. Unless the Seons we saw in Elantris are super under-powered, which could be true as we dont know much about them. So, they're part of the magic but don't run off AonDor? It confuses me.

[Stormgate he/him]

They were pieces of a Shard. They have slightly different rules.

[Landis963 he/him]

What bothered me the most was that the Seons worked without having chasm lines added to the Aons that were "inside" them. Unless the Seons we saw in Elantris are super under-powered, which could be true as we dont know much about them. So, they're part of the magic but don't run off AonDor? It confuses me.

 

That is precisely right.  They run off the Dor, but don't run off of AonDor specifically.  I suspect they congregate around Arelon because that was where Devotion died, Physically speaking I mean (at the very least, that's where her Shardpool is).  Likewise, I suspect Dominion died somewhere in the vicinity of the core nation that eventually became the Fjordell empire, if only because the Skaze have apparently made themselves integral to the inner workings of Wyrn's Domain.  

[Shadowfax]

That is precisely right.  They run off the Dor, but don't run off of AonDor specifically.  I suspect they congregate around Arelon because that was where Devotion died, Physically speaking I mean (at the very least, that's where her Shardpool is).  Likewise, I suspect Dominion died somewhere in the vicinity of the core nation that eventually became the Fjordell empire, if only because the Skaze have apparently made themselves integral to the inner workings of Wyrn's Domain.

Thank you for making that much more clear to me. Now to figure out why/how Seons are affected by the Shaod when their humans are. I'm still combing these forums, so I haven't read all the theories yet but maybe I'll find some interesting tidbits.

[Landis963 he/him]

Thank you for making that much more clear to me. Now to figure out why/how Seons are affected by the Shaod when their humans are. I'm still combing these forums, so I haven't read all the theories yet but maybe I'll find some interesting tidbits.

 

The bond they create with their humans (e.g. Seon Ashe with Sarene) is very similar to the nahel bond between spren and surgebinder (from the Stormlight Archive).  There's a WoB on this, I'm fairly certain, or at least there are WoBs which dance around it but don't specifically say they're the same.  Add that to the deleterious effects that the Reod has on one's Cognitive self, and there you go.  

[Shadowfax]

I literally just discovered 2 threads that, combined, gave me that same answer

So, now that I know why they went mad during Shaod due to Reod.... the question is, what changed inherently in Seons post-transformation, if anything?

SA

Mostly I wonder this because Syl seems very affected by Kaladin's "changes"

and if the bond are similar, on a spiritual level, it stands to reason the Seons would be affected in some way. Perhaps the lack of chasm line in them keeps the change from happening, but as they're splinters, I doubt that. Sort of.

More research for me