Mael he/him Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 In M:SH, we got a good look at what a Cognitive shadow is and how it can interact. They can only interact within the Cognitive realm and in extreme circumstances cause very small disturbances in the Physical realm (like making Vin feel uneasy about Hoid) until their "string" connecting them to the Physical realm is replaced. What does this have to do with another world? Well, let's look at Threnody and the Shades in the forest there. They cannot think independently, aside from the "program" they have of retaliating to the breaking of the Simple Rules (and in a couple cases of sticking around the places they lived before they became a shade). Because of how little independent action we see from these Shades it seems clear to me that they have very little presence in the Cognitive realm at all. So I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the Shades on Threnody are Physical shadows, and examples of what would happen to Cosmerians if their Cognitive self is killed before their Physical self dies. What do you Sharders think? Could I be on to something here? Or am I making connections in the Cognitive realm that aren't really there? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSelector Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Brandon has said explicitly that they are Cognitive Shadows. Should Kelsier travel there, he would become a shade. However, I think you are on to something - the shades don't have a particularly strong Cognitive presence. It could be the way they are created, or something having to do with the residual magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mael he/him Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Dang, kind of a bummer the first part of my theory was dead on arrival since I wasn't aware of that particular WoB (probably should have done some research on that part before posting. Lesson learned for next time!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSelector Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) No problem, it's certainly an important insight that not all Cognitive Shadows have the same facility. Also, the Theoryland quote database seems to be broken at the moment, so you couldn't have looked. Theorize on, I don't want to sound discouraging! Edited January 28, 2016 by FirstSelector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I imagine it's pretty similar to spren, they're cognitive shadows who are trying to interact with the physical realm but they don't have anything connecting them to the physical so they go all stupid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent he/him Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 However, I think you are on to something - the shades don't have a particularly strong Cognitive presence. I don't think we can judge that. Appearance of mindlessness in the physical realm doesn't necessarily suggest diminished cognitive aspect - most Rosharan spren show virtually no cognitive ability in the Physical Realm, but are noticeably better in the Cognitive (though not necessarily full-on intelligent). Even a stick has more cognition in Shadesmar than it does in the Physical Realm. So the Threnodian (was that the term the Ire used?) shades could be quite formidable in the Cognitive Realm. Indeed, I imagine they are, if they can affect the physical world in such profound ways. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstSelector Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 But at the same time, they don't have much choice, as the OP points out - they have to follow the Simple Rules. Now, it could simply be that violating the Simple Rules creates a catastrophe in the Cognitive Realm that these powerful shades all act in virtually the same way to counteract. For example, lighting a fire summons a terrible firestorm in the Cognitive Realm and they all rush to prevent that. I don't disagree that they have power, but they don't seem to have much of a mind. In retrospect I could have phrased that far better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mael he/him Posted January 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 I don't think we can judge that. Appearance of mindlessness in the physical realm doesn't necessarily suggest diminished cognitive aspect - most Rosharan spren show virtually no cognitive ability in the Physical Realm, but are noticeably better in the Cognitive (though not necessarily full-on intelligent). Even a stick has more cognition in Shadesmar than it does in the Physical Realm. So the Threnodian (was that the term the Ire used?) shades could be quite formidable in the Cognitive Realm. Indeed, I imagine they are, if they can affect the physical world in such profound ways. You brought up a good point, and I hadn't considered the comparison of shades to spren. After reading your comment, it does make a lot of sense. Would that potentially make Honorspren and other varieties of Radientspren cognitive beings who got a new "string" connecting them to the physical realm through the nahel bond? And could that possibly point to Shardblades being physical shadows that need a "string" to connect them back to the cognitive realm to be resurrected? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsier's Boxing Glove Posted January 28, 2016 Report Share Posted January 28, 2016 Brandon has said explicitly that they are Cognitive Shadows. Should Kelsier travel there, he would become a shade. So shades taken off Threnody would regain their minds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewStirlingMacDonald he/him Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 The Ire certainly seems to go into full-alert mode at the thought of Therodenian Cognitive Shadows wanting to take their place on the mainstage, so formidable seems pretty likely. It seems likely that regardless of their Cognitive abilities, they have almost no control over the physical manifestations of themselves that remain. So it's possible that every time some fool fortfolk goes for a nighttime jog in the forests, there are a ton of fully functioning cognitive shadows all just screaming "No! What are you doing? Stop it!" and trying their very hardest to not go all red-eyed, but getting unwillfully sucked into it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 So the Threnodian (was that the term the Ire used?) shades could be quite formidable in the Cognitive Realm. Indeed, I imagine they are, if they can affect the physical world in such profound ways. Threnodite IIRC. It does make me wonder what a shade will act like in the cognitive realm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwelfthOfSnackTime he/him Posted January 29, 2016 Report Share Posted January 29, 2016 I don't think we can judge that. Appearance of mindlessness in the physical realm doesn't necessarily suggest diminished cognitive aspect - most Rosharan spren show virtually no cognitive ability in the Physical Realm, but are noticeably better in the Cognitive (though not necessarily full-on intelligent). Even a stick has more cognition in Shadesmar than it does in the Physical Realm. So the Threnodian (was that the term the Ire used?) shades could be quite formidable in the Cognitive Realm. Indeed, I imagine they are, if they can affect the physical world in such profound ways. They must be pretty scary in the Cognitive realm to scare a bunch of Elantrians so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emailanimal he/him Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 They must be pretty scary in the Cognitive realm to scare a bunch of Elantrians so bad. My thought too. I think the key is also that because something is "broken" on Threnody and the dead do not leave Cognitive Realm for Spiritual, there is *a lot* of them out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokomis Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Perhaps there's some kind of cognitive realm defense on Threnody. Like, you come here in the cognitive realm and you go mindless, say, to prevent travelers like the Drifter in Secret History. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emailanimal he/him Posted January 30, 2016 Report Share Posted January 30, 2016 Perhaps there's some kind of cognitive realm defense on Threnody. Like, you come here in the cognitive realm and you go mindless, say, to prevent travelers like the Drifter in Secret History. Not certain I'd go for "mindless". I suspect that actual bodily harm may be involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 So shades taken off Threnody would regain their minds? Well people theorize that the "Haunted Man" is Nahz on Scadrial shooting shades from his "gun" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 So what are the Shades on Threnody? Cognative Shadows trapped in the Physical Realm? The Elantrians were panicking when they thought one was waltzing about, They must be rather dangerous in the Cognative Realm. Whats the Haunted Man?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 So what are the Shades on Threnody? Cognative Shadows trapped in the Physical Realm? The Elantrians were panicking when they thought one was waltzing about, They must be rather dangerous in the Cognative Realm. Whats the Haunted Man?? He is included in the broadsheet for bands of mourning. It is the gondolla fight article. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII he/him Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Agh thank you ! +1 Thought you meant a haunted man was mentioned on Threnody, I remember now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamskinner Posted February 6, 2016 Report Share Posted February 6, 2016 Maybe we are seeing the cognitive realm on threnody. They people could be there in physical form. Not likely but just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 So what are the Shades on Threnody? Cognative Shadows trapped in the Physical Realm? The Elantrians were panicking when they thought one was waltzing about, They must be rather dangerous in the Cognative Realm. Whats the Haunted Man?? It's possibly not even that they're individually dangerous (at least not to the type of people and ghosts likely to wander around the Expanses) so much as that there are so many of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Not certain I'd go for "mindless". I suspect that actual bodily harm may be involved. Acidental downvote. Can someone fix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasarr she/her Posted February 7, 2016 Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 Acidental downvote. Can someone fix? Gotchya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delightful Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I imagine it's pretty similar to spren, they're cognitive shadows who are trying to interact with the physical realm but they don't have anything connecting them to the physical so they go all stupid.Are you saying spren used to be people, or that they're creatures native to the cognitive realm that find a way to manifest in the physical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landis963 he/him Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 Are you saying spren used to be people, or that they're creatures native to the cognitive realm that find a way to manifest in the physical? The latter is more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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