KnightGradient Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 On the epigraph for chapter 67 of HoA, there is some pretty precise wording(emphasis mine) "Koloss also had little chance of breaking free. Four spikes, and their diminished mental capacity, left them fairly easy to dominate. Only in the throes of a blood frenzy did they have any form of autonomy." Not only does Brandon name drop Autonomy, but its the exact plan enacted by Bleeder in SoS. When she attempted to free the people of Elendel, her whole plan hinges on the idea that strong emotion frees humans from Harmony's influence. Take the above quote however you wish, but I think it supports Trell being Autonomy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 There may be some connection with powerful Soothing/Rooting enabling to take control of Hemalurgical constructs and Bleeder's plan, but I don't think that proves anything about 'Trell'. Sometimes a word is just a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citadel16 he/him Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 often times when a shards presence affects the world ive noticed that they tend to use the name of that intent more often. I.E. Ive only ever noticed them saying odium, and saying honor a lot, on Roshar. rust and Ruin, in scadrial. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockbud he/him Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 I've been relistening to the original Mistborn trilogy and 'Cultivation' comes up a lot, but I'm with Oversleep: its probably just a word. Brandon probably has his Cosmere plans layed out somewhere including all the shard intents. He might be using them in his books subconsciously. That said though, it does make me wonder how many other intents are being mentioned that we just don't know about, mentioned intentionally or otherwise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 Yeah given the context I'd be very surprised if this was anything other than a coincidence. In fact given who wrote that the Epigraphs are in-world writing and we know who wrote them I'd say it's virtually guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 I wouldn't be surprised if trell was harmony, because it would fit with both paalm's intentions, and miles' phylosophy (it's been a while since my last aol reread, but I remember it put some emphasis on being capable on your own). THat said, we don't have anything we can call solid evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyloKen he/him Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 In regards to the unknown shard or "Trell" being Autonomy I believe for several reasons that the shard is not Odium Odium is very busy on Roshar as is. Odium is terrified of Harmony, so would not be likely to challenge him in person, especially not on Harmony's own world. However, he might send a friend to do the dirty work.... Paalm's entire purpose is to set herself and everyone else free of Harmony's influence and control. If another shard was controlling her, it would logically follow that she would reject this control as well. Unless that shard was influencing her towards "freedom".... So, if it's not Odium, who else could it be? My thoughts point to none other than our friend Bavadin, holding the shard Autonomy. Why? Well, It seems that Rayse (Odium) and Bavadin may be working together. This theory is not hugely supported, but the writer of The Letter did mention them and his grudges against them respectively in the same sentence, pointing to the fact that they may have more connection than we know. A full theory as to why Rayse and Bavadin may be working together was posted by Spire and can be found here. Bavadin's shard is Autonomy, or "freedom from external control or influence; independence." This seems to be exactly what Paalm is fighting for the whole time. What other shard's influence could one who so clearly wants freedom have fallen under save freedom itself? The biggest argument I have seen against Autonomy being the unknown shard is the creatures that Paalm creates through Hemalurgy, likely with the same metal that is in her. This seems to be against Autonomy's intent, taking away the people affected's freedom to choose. However, we know that human sentience on Scadrial comes directly from Preservation. I postulate that the Paalm's Hemalurgic use of Autonomy's metal in this case removes any part/influence of another shard from the person the Hemalurgy is used on. This thus would remove Preservation from them, taking away their sentience and reverting them to a primal, beast-like state. Brandon said that this shard is one we've already seen. Dominion, Devotion, and Honor have all been splintered, it isn't of Harmony, for reasons shown above I don't believe that it is Odium, Cultivation is hiding on Roshar, and Endowment seems content on Nalthis. This leaves only Autonomy. Thank you for reading my theory, any comments and responses will be appreciated! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 I wouldn't be surprised if trell was harmony, because it would fit with both paalm's intentions, and miles' phylosophy (it's been a while since my last aol reread, but I remember it put some emphasis on being capable on your own). THat said, we don't have anything we can call solid evidence. If Trell was Harmony? Personally I'd be very surprised if that was the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoidhunter he/him Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I personally feel that one of the biggest points supporting Trell (or...just the naughty mystery shard working on Scadrial) = Autonomy is that Brandon revealed Bavadin's intent to be Autonomy just before or after (I forget which) Shadows of self came out. Of course it could just be some clever ploy on Brandon's part to throw us off track...but I think it's more likley that he was simply releasing information that just became relevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari he/him Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I have a suspicion that Brandon deliberately name-drops the Intents or their synonyms from time to time in addition to the times that the words are simply the best ones to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Are we advanced enough for Sanderson to use reversed psychology on us? To announce Autonomy and expect us to expect some kind of ploy from him?"I could drop some other Shard's name, but they expect me to lead them astray. Hmm... Time for reversed psychology, I will drop that Shard's name! They will never believe that Bavadin is messing with Sazed! Buahahahahaha!"And probably now the person who observes us for Brandon (I will call that person the Shardwatcher from now on, Brandon's personal observer of theories striking to close etc) will go "Master, they are on to us! You have to drop info to lead them away from Autonomy! And we need a way to silence the user who found out!"P.S. I know you're reading this, Shardwatcher. I will not be silenced. I am the one thing you can never silence. I am Hope. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormgate he/him Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 There is a Shardwatcher. As far as I know, his name is Peter Ahlstrom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 (edited) There is a Shardwatcher. As far as I know, his name is Peter Ahlstrom. *fully paranoic voice* Don't believe it! He's just a distraction! They are trying to draw our attention away from the true Shardwatcher! Edited January 16, 2016 by Oversleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBambam Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 There is a Shardwatcher. As far as I know, his name is Peter Ahlstrom. Peter has had some interesting responses to my tweets, I definitely think he lurks in here to see how close we come to figuring things out. As far as the original quote from HoA. I think that hardly supports autonomy as being Trell. I still personally believe it's a combination of Odium and Autonomy working against Sazed. In a tweet Brandon told me BoM would have more cosmere relevance, so I'm sure we'll learn more in a week or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth she/her Posted January 18, 2016 Report Share Posted January 18, 2016 Peter has had some interesting responses to my tweets, I definitely think he lurks in here to see how close we come to figuring things out. As far as the original quote from HoA. I think that hardly supports autonomy as being Trell. I still personally believe it's a combination of Odium and Autonomy working against Sazed. In a tweet Brandon told me BoM would have more cosmere relevance, so I'm sure we'll learn more in a week or so. Peter is also well-known for gleefully trolling us with comments to throw us off the scent, mixed in with just enough genuine tidbits to keep us completely confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBambam Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 That's definitely true! Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 I wish i could believe Autonomy was involved somehow but with the way Saze has been acting in Era 2/WaW, including his own admittance about wanting Scadrial to be in a position where they don't need his help/manipulation to make their own decisions (autonomous), I just can't get on board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaymyth she/her Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 I wish i could believe Autonomy was involved somehow but with the way Saze has been acting in Era 2/WaW, including his own admittance about wanting Scadrial to be in a position where they don't need his help/manipulation to make their own decisions (autonomous), I just can't get on board I don't think that necessarily precludes things. I could easily see Autonomy believing that Harmony is a big hypocrite, as much as he keeps dabbling in interference. Autonomy would say, "Sink or swim by your own merits." Harmony is still meddling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 But wouldn't Autonomy rather Harmony also be autonomous also? He's just come into his power as has no idea what to do with it. That's one thing i can't wrap my head around with that Intent. The desire to be autonomous and for others to be autonomous but will meddle heavily through direct/indirect means to stop someone else's meddling, (granted, the mind can still resist and act in counter to the Intent...) Realmatics, confusing as crem >.< makes my head spin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 I wish i could believe Autonomy was involved somehow but with the way Saze has been acting in Era 2/WaW, including his own admittance about wanting Scadrial to be in a position where they don't need his help/manipulation to make their own decisions (autonomous), I just can't get on board Autonomy is about as close to the opposite as Harmony as I can think of, Discord would be the slightly more negative variant but essentially Harmony is about working together, Autonomy is about working alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoxicalZen he/him Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Autonomy is about as close to the opposite as Harmony as I can think of, Discord would be the slightly more negative variant but essentially Harmony is about working together, Autonomy is about working alone. I guess that's another thing with Intents, they can be interpreted in different ways depending on the person viewing them. I cannot wait for BoM to see how this is going to go down. Next week needs to hurry >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBambam Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 Perhaps Autonomy feels Harmony should be separated into Preservation and Ruin again, because in being combined into one being, they are no longer free to work alone. So perhaps Autonomy is meddling in Scadrial for that specific purpose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oversleep Posted January 20, 2016 Report Share Posted January 20, 2016 The way I see it, Autonomy is fine with meddling, but the extent to which Sazed is interfering with events is too much. Autonomy doesn't mind Shards offering help to the people as long as they have choice, but Harmony became something of a Godlike Chessmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 He could also just hate the existence of the hemalurgic constructs with respects to Harmony, they can literally have all their free will taken at any moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iBambam Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 Quite honesty, it's probably a combination of all of these. Autonomy doesn't like that two shards have been fused together. He doesn't like that this new combined shard harmony is playing chess with the people he should only watch over. Then the fact that he literally controls his hemalurgic constructs at times completely taking away their free will, must infuriate Autonomy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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